User:Ericb/Log26th June

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[13:53] <paveljanik> obr, ericb2: can you please create separate cws for program -> MacOS rename of the directory in installed OOo? I think this is potentially conflicting change for X11 and it could bring problems for X11. I'd like to see it done separately.

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[13:54] <obr> paveljanik: this changes is already integrated

[13:55] <damiend> ismael_: ping ?

[13:55] <ismael_> damiend: hi

[13:55] <paveljanik> obr: ah, then only linkoo was changed on aquavcl01 because of that. OK, thanks!

[13:56] <obr> paveljanik: CWS aquabundle, integrated in m215

[13:57] <paveljanik> yup.

[14:02] <paveljanik> OK, other than that - I think we are ready to stop changing aquavcl01, and make it Ready for QA... I'll start building on all my systems with it now.

[14:03] <paveljanik> Sometimes, we have to say STOP. So what about in five minutes? ;-)

[14:06] <paveljanik> ... and living a few week with proper issues with patches attached?

[14:06] <paveljanik> Otherwise we can't get there...

[14:08] <paveljanik> tino: can you please get macjogi here?

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[14:09] <tino> paveljanik: Me?

[14:11] <paveljanik> tino: or someone else who knows macjogi's phone number :-)

[14:11] <tino> paveljanik: Wait a minute

[14:12] * solarisjogi (i=jogi@nat/sun/x-42f52273489ade93) has joined #ooo_macport

[14:12] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: That was fast :-)

[14:12] <tino> paveljanik: There he is

[14:12] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: Hi

[14:12] <solarisjogi> da da

[14:12] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: do you have 10 minutes?

[14:12] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: I use SUN hardware

[14:12] <paveljanik> Sun can own Macs, no? ;-)

[14:12] <paveljanik> at least they do have several of them now ;-)

[14:13] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: I'd like to talk about aqauvcl01 QA...

[14:13] <ericb2> paveljanik: PhilippL I forwarded Florian mail

[14:13] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: Yes. I have seen some mails about it

[14:14] <ericb2> paveljanik: PhilippL I remember we discussed about that, but nothing was decided

[14:14] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: Our main goal should be to not affect any other platform/configuration (Mac OS X/X11) with it.

[14:14] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: and bring the current development state into the master so we can continue with the regular development cycle - issues, cws, QA, integration.

[14:14] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: is this acceptable for you?

[14:15] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: sure aquavcl01 has many issues in it, but they are specific to aqua, thus subject to further development...

[14:15] <paveljanik> I simly do not want non-functional printing in aqua to stop the integration of aquavcl01...

[14:16] <paveljanik> can we agree on this principle?

[14:17] <paveljanik> ericb2: the ShowWindow is still on my todo list for cleanup - we need full X11 build with premac/postmac changes to verify it works even with this line commented!

[14:17] <tino> paveljanik: Im not sure though why its so important to integrate aquavcl01 asap, other features have been completely developed on a separate cws until there were ready (and this took months or years)

[14:17] <paveljanik> tino: it is very simple: because people tend to commit random fixes/hacks there...

[14:17] <tino> paveljanik: As long as we always keep aquavcl01 up to date

[14:17] <paveljanik> we have to prevent that. People do not test their fixes on e.g. X11...

[14:18] <ericb2> tino: the problem is when somebody wants to work on new stuff, this leads to problematic situation when they are common modules with aquavcl01

[14:18] <tino> paveljanik: Well then we can start to make this mandatory on aquavcl01

[14:18] <paveljanik> tino: we already DID so!

[14:19] <tino> paveljanik: And? I didnt work? But you think it works better then when we create multiple cws'es instead?

[14:19] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: I agree with your test strategy. Who should fulfill it? Is it UI relevant?

[14:19] <ericb2> tino: I think it's the ost simple to integrate aquavcl01 , and continue once done

[14:20] <ericb2> s/ost/most/

[14:20] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: no UI relevant changes. Only two new strings in VCL, but only used on aqua anyway and not seen in other platforms.

[14:20] <ericb2> today looks like a wild IRC meeting ..

[14:20] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: who: good question.

[14:21] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: The UI freeze for 2.3 is coming up

[14:21] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: I'll do all build related verifications on all major platforms and few others.

[14:21] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: that is highest priority in QA to get UI relevant CWSes be done.

[14:21] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: yup, but as these two strings are not visible at all...

[14:21] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: and we can include translations of them from other module, because they only are copy of the same strings from other modules.

[14:22] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: Okay, we would need a small exception through "release committee" or whatever it called today

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[14:22] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: we have been already talking about it yesterday.

[14:22] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: nice. How can I help?

[14:22] <ericb2> paveljanik: is the log available ?

[14:22] * solarisjogi has to ask his manager where the Macs are :-)

[14:22] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: good to hear your offer for help :-)

[14:22] <paveljanik> ericb2: I'll provide it later today. I hope I have it 8)

[14:23] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: can you help us with the full testsuite on some platform?

[14:23] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: Yes, if there is help needed I will do my very best.

[14:23] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: Yes, Solaris SPARC, x86, Win32 and Linux

[14:23] <paveljanik> I'd prefer non-unx, because we will surely run full tests on Mac OS X/X11.

[14:23] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: If I have a build here

[14:23] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: Thanks!

[14:24] <tino> paveljanik: There are several issue assigned to aquavcl01 that are in the state not in the state 'fixed'. Maybe it makes sense to ask the owners about the estimation of when those will be fixed.

[14:24] <solarisjogi> tino: Is it possible to make a real build of the CWS 'inhouse' that I can use the mahler framework?

[14:24] <paveljanik> tino: I'd prefer postponing them.

[14:24] <tino> paveljanik: Before it makes no sense to set the "Ready for QA" anyway

[14:24] <paveljanik> tino: I know you are working on something, but the UI deadline and CWS freeze are near...

[14:25] <tino> paveljanik: What is near?

[14:25] <paveljanik> and the worst what could happen is that our aquavcl01 will create some issue...

[14:25] <tino> paveljanik: I certainly dont remove the clipboard task and related code from the cws again only to make it "Ready for QA"

[14:26] <paveljanik> tino: UI and feature freeze is July 5th.

[14:26] <tino> paveljanik: I only need a few more days (lets say by the end of this week) to finish my work

[14:26] <paveljanik> tino: the features related to aqua DO NOT have to be completed.

[14:27] <paveljanik> tino: I do not want to pressure you or anyone else. I want to put pressure on all of us ;-)

[14:27] <tino> paveljanik: Yeah, but as aquavcl01 as you said does't contain UI changes how does this affect us?

[14:27] <paveljanik> tino: it contains two new strings.

[14:27] <paveljanik> and it contains several features...

[14:27] <paveljanik> but they do not affect usual platforms...

[14:27] <paveljanik> but anyway...

[14:27] <solarisjogi> Is there any Sunie having the CWS aqauvcl01 build on the "Sun supported" platforms inhouse? I would be able to use the QA framework to test the non-Mac platforms...

[14:28] <tino> solarisjogi: I think hud, PhilippL, thorsten are your friends :)

[14:28] <ericb2> paveljanik: I think salaquatox11 needs some changes to be safe for other platforms

[14:29] <solarisjogi> PhilippL: Do we have the "other" (non-MacOS X)platforms builded fopr this CWS?

[14:29] <ericb2> paveljanik: just waiting for obr opinion

[14:29] <paveljanik> I'm now talking with blauwal about the possibility to build regular QA-instsets...

[14:30] * ericb2 will keep a trace of the discussion, and post it on the wiki

[14:30] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: yes, would be great to have them inside Sun.... I could use the full framework for tests.

[14:30] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: blauwal agrees to provide you them - can you please ask him?

[14:31] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: cool

[14:31] <paveljanik> yay!

[14:31] * solarisjogi will ring up ause

[14:31] * solarisjogi or heiner

[14:31] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: What will be the due date?

[14:31] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: for tests? or for cws?

[14:31] <tino> paveljanik: If you think we are bound to the "UI and feature freeze deadline" then I think we need to integrate finished features and not half- baked stuff

[14:32] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: for the tests

[14:33] <paveljanik> tino: I'm just trying to find something that fits all and mostly us.

[14:33] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: take your time. It would be nice to know potential problems soon, but I think end of next week is great.

[14:33] <ericb2> excuse me for the flood

[14:33] <jamesmckenzie> ericb2: Happens to the best of us :)

[14:34] <ericb2> I wanted to post the link

[14:34] <paveljanik> tino: I simply want us to work regularly.

[14:34] <ericb2>

[14:34] <paveljanik> start creating development snapshots using regular techniques etc.

[14:34] <tino> paveljanik: I understand your desire to get aquavcl01 integrated soon but why does it have to be for the 2.3 deadline?

[14:34] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: okay, that is better; I would start on tuesday with it...

[14:35] <solarisjogi> tino: if it does not affect other runtimes...why not?

[14:35] <tino> paveljanik: We could just as well stop adding new tasks and modules to the cws, finish the open tasks on the cws, qa it and then integrate it

[14:35] <paveljanik> tino: because otherwise it will be 2nd level cws, none will take care about it for a looong time again.

[14:35] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: We have to be sure that we do not break the main stream... they will kill us if we do that ...

[14:36] <paveljanik> tino: we are doing so...

[14:36] <tino> paveljanik: I dont follow you. All Mac porters are working on that cws atm

[14:36] <tino> paveljanik: What is a 2nd level cws?

[14:37] <paveljanik> tino: nominated and waiting for first integration slot for a LOOOONG time.

[14:37] <tino> paveljanik: The new chart has been developed on a cws for several years if I'm not wrong

[14:37] <paveljanik> and what problems it created? ;-)

[14:37] <solarisjogi> tino: Do we affect other platforms?

[14:37] <paveljanik> I remember at least 4 2hours each meeteing of RC about it!

[14:37] <ericb2> solarisjogi: we must test first

[14:37] <ericb2> solarisjogi: to be sure

[14:38] <paveljanik> after reading the changes several times, I'm almost certain it doesn't affect other systems!

[14:38] <tino> paveljanik: And you think there will be less for aquavcl01? ;)

[14:38] <paveljanik> tino: definitely.

[14:38] <paveljanik> tino: I think we are done regarding RC committee - really!

[14:39] <jamesmckenzie> Moin. It is 0538 here.

[14:39] <paveljanik> mmnt, I'll try to upload the log from yesterday's meeting.

[14:40] <tino> solarisjogi: There is one pending change with regards to the clipboard the affects code the will be used on other platforms too but the change will be uncritical

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[14:41] <solarisjogi> tino: then I would follow Pavel...

[14:42] <paveljanik> BTW - we were also talking about Macs for Hamburg RE and Mac builds.

[14:42] <paveljanik>

[14:42] <paveljanik>

[14:42] <paveljanik>

[14:42] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: blauwahl is doing a Solaris x86 and a Win32 build inhouse (Sun). I will do the tests here inhouse. I will start tuesday next week and will start the 45 resource/main functionality tests. OK?

[14:43] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: you rock! Thank you!

[14:43] <mav_eric> solarisjogi: ping?

[14:43] <solarisjogi> mav_eric: pong

[14:43] <ericb2> paveljanik: we still have on everification in sal

[14:43] <mav_eric> solarisjogi: Do you have an old OOo 1.0.x for Mac?

[14:43] <ericb2> paveljanik: other os are not protected yet, there is some work remaining

[14:44] <paveljanik> ericb2: yes, please do it now or soon...

[14:44] <mav_eric> not installed. I would need an installabel dmg or something similiar

[14:44] <tino> solarisjogi: That means the cws should be "Ready for QA" by tuesday next week?

[14:44] <ericb2> paveljanik: I'll do it asap, but I need oliver opinion before

[14:44] <mav_eric> my oldest OOo is 1.0.3 but only the en-Us version

[14:45] <solarisjogi> tino: The work on issues should have been done then. There is no need for automated tests that it is on ready for QA state

[14:45] <ericb2> paveljanik: can you please upload your log somewhere ? tmp is maybe not definitive ;)

[14:45] <paveljanik> ericb2: why? It is only temporary. I do not plan to save it for years from now on...

[14:45] <tino> solarisjogi: That enough time for me to finish my clipboard stuff

[14:46] <solarisjogi> tino: blauwahl (Heiner) needs the info when you all done with your work...

[14:46] <solarisjogi> tino: GREAT!

[14:46] <tino> solarisjogi: Ok

[14:46] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: I have seen is really cool

[14:46] <tino> solarisjogi: He sits next to my office :)

[14:46] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: You give blauwahl the "go" for building?!

[14:46] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: I will be travelling next week.

[14:46] <ericb2> paveljanik: I just don't appreciate to discover everything after, without being disucssed at all

[14:47] <paveljanik> ericb2: ?

[14:47] <paveljanik> everything? What everything?

[14:47] <solarisjogi> tino: then you will be the DEV rep ?

[14:47] <paveljanik> After what?

[14:47] <paveljanik> ericb2: discussed about what?

[14:47] <ericb2> paveljanik: after the meeting

[14:47] <paveljanik> I do not understand.

[14:47] <tino> solarisjogi: Well; Im still thw owner of aquavcl01

[14:47] <ericb2> paveljanik: who will provide builds etc

[14:47] <paveljanik> ericb2: ?

[14:47] <paveljanik> who provides builds on mac OS X?

[14:47] <solarisjogi> tino: Okay, then you give Heiner the "go"

[14:47] <solarisjogi> tino: Ok?

[14:47] <paveljanik> me?

[14:47] <paveljanik> you?

[14:47] <paveljanik> or Maho?

[14:48] <ericb2> paveljanik: the point should have been discussed at least on IRC meeting, or on mac@porting list, yes

[14:48] <tino> solarisjogi: No problem

[14:48] <paveljanik> then add it as a topic on the next meeting.

[14:49] <ericb2> paveljanik: no, the previous

[14:49] <solarisjogi> tino: This CWS is a big step for the Aqua port looking forward to Barcelona....

[14:49] <paveljanik> yes.

[14:49] <tino> solarisjogi: Sure

[14:49] <paveljanik> hopefully by that time, we will have everything done and will continue as regular porting project ;-)

[14:49] <paveljanik> ericb2: so why you haven't included into the agenda of previous meeting?

[14:50] <paveljanik> I still do not understand ericb2's point.

[14:50] <solarisjogi> ericb2: I will communicate on wedesday (thursday) next week the results for Win32, Solaris x86 automated test runs to you (via EIS)....

[14:50] <ericb2> paveljanik: are you joking ? I ask since a long time

[14:50] <tino> solarisjogi: Should I make you the QA rep for the cws?

[14:50] * paveljanik will try to cleanup the list of issues in aquavcl01 this week.

[14:50] <ericb2> solarisjogi: yes, but again, there is a change in sal I'm not sure yet

[14:50] <solarisjogi> tino: No. I do not test the Mac-part of it (I have only at home two Macs)

[14:50] <ericb2> solarisjogi: I have to ask oliver first

[14:50] <ericb2> solarisjogi: I prefer

[14:51] <tino> solarisjogi: Who do you suggest then?

[14:51] <paveljanik> tino: I can do the QA part of it.

[14:52] <solarisjogi> tino: ericb2 is okay from my point of view... pavel is doing the Mac QA coordination...

[14:52] <solarisjogi> tino: afaik

[14:52] <paveljanik> ericb2: but anyway, the question of who will build it is almost irrelevant for me now.

[14:52] <solarisjogi> tino: I just start some tests on the non-Mac platforms to avoid regressions on them

[14:52] <paveljanik> ericb2: do you want to be formal QA of aquavcl01?

[14:53] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: that's the best choice, of course :-)

[14:53] <paveljanik> solarisjogi: yes, That should be the main-QA on this cws...

[14:53] <ericb2> solarisjogi: maybe someone else is a better choice

[14:53] <paveljanik> OK, so I'll do it.

[14:53] <ericb2> solarisjogi: ...

[14:53] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: but the Mac-part should also be on the same state as we expect for that milestone - and that's out of my scope...

[14:53] <tino> paveljanik,eric: Lets say you verify then from the build perspective everything is ok, and Eric stays the QA rep and verifies the build result

[14:54] <solarisjogi> ericb2: yes, pavel

[14:54] <ericb2> solarisjogi: maybe more are needed ? this is a big cws after all

[14:54] <ericb2> solarisjogi: and coordination is needed ..etc

[14:54] <paveljanik> naah, I take the responsibility just to prevent spending next 5 minutes on this topic :-)

[14:55] <paveljanik> Thank you all and sorry for using your work time ;-)

[14:55] <solarisjogi> ericb2: it is a big one for Mac, not a big one from "other" platforms... I do those things every day...

[14:55] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: heheh ;-)

[14:55] * ericb2 wondering about his real role sometimes

[14:56] <solarisjogi> ericb2: the front-man of us? :-)

[14:56] <ericb2> solarisjogi: not exactly

[14:56] <solarisjogi> ericb2: the man who have helped to teach Sun that Mac is a market?

[14:57] <tino> I'll set the "Ready for QA" date to next Tuesday (June 5th) and talk to the owners of the still open bugs... - acceptable?

[14:57] <solarisjogi> ericb2: okay, gang, I have to fix some issues in test scripts otherwise my colleagues from chart2 will kill me... :-)

[14:57] <solarisjogi> tino: +1

[14:57] <ericb2> tino: next tuesday is July, isn't it ?

[14:57] <solarisjogi> tino: Please ad me as member

[14:58] <tino> ericb2: July of course :)

[14:58] <tino> solarisjogi: yep

[14:58] <paveljanik> tino: OK. And in the meantime, I'll try to minimize the list of need-to-be-contacted owners ;-)

[14:58] <solarisjogi> paveljanik: cu

[14:58] <ericb2> tino: tueday 3rd july exactly

[14:58] * tino has a meeting later

[14:58] <tino> ericb2: Yep!!!

[14:58] <paveljanik> ericb2: your role is very strange sometimes. Really. But this is completely different topic and maybe for personal discussion.

[14:59] <paveljanik> You take everything personally... Too personally is probably the right word.

[14:59] * solarisjogi starting fix VCL TestTool scripts... bye

[14:59] * solarisjogi is now known as solarisjogi_aw

[15:00] <paveljanik> solarisjogi_aw: thank you!

[15:00] <paveljanik> I have to leave for home now. Bye

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