Renaissance:Status Meetings:2010-05-31

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Meeting Details

  • 2010-05-31, 4:03 PM CET
  • IRC details:

In Attendance

  • Christoph Lukasiak (IRC: clu_sun)
  • Dave Richard (IRC: dave_largo)
  • Andreas Bartel (IRC: Andreas_Sun)
  • Frank Loehmann (IRC: frankl)
  • Christoph Noack (IRC: christoph_n)


  • Round Table

Action Items

Comments on Action Items

Round Table

  • see IRC log


(4:07:33 PM) mode (+o frankl) by ChanServ
(4:07:33 PM) frankl: Hi!
(4:07:42 PM) clu_sun [~cl114686@nat/sun/x-cvmfucktgxgrkcuo] entered the room.
(4:07:44 PM) andreas_sun: Moin Frank
(4:07:51 PM) frankl: Hi Andreas!
(4:07:55 PM) andreas_sun: Moin clu
(4:08:02 PM) clu_sun: moin andreas
(4:08:28 PM) andreas_sun: it took me some time to figure out how to forward phone here to berlin
(4:08:40 PM) andreas_sun: now it should work
(4:09:08 PM) frankl: OK
(4:09:49 PM) andreas_sun: I also found the Sun Office here. I will probably go there on Wednesday and Thursday
(4:09:56 PM) christoph_n [] entered the room.
(4:10:08 PM) frankl: Hi Christoph!
(4:10:10 PM) andreas_sun: hi christoph
(4:10:19 PM) christoph_n: Hi!
(4:10:36 PM) christoph_n: Did you already start?
(4:10:54 PM) andreas_sun: only some organizational issues
(4:11:15 PM) christoph_n: Okay, since I don't like issues ;-)
(4:12:05 PM) andreas_sun: so, how is it going?
(4:12:25 PM) andreas_sun: anything new?
(4:13:13 PM) frankl: I do not have too much for today. We will have our Renaissance status presentation for May on Thursday this week. Presentation will be published on Friday.
(4:13:54 PM) christoph_n: (I'm searching for a link...)
(4:14:05 PM) andreas_sun: great! how is better defaults going?
(4:15:12 PM) clu_sun: also great :)
(4:15:17 PM) andreas_sun: :-)
(4:15:22 PM) clu_sun: the first cws is opened
(4:15:35 PM) clu_sun: it will contain about 10 issues
(4:15:52 PM) clu_sun: about gridhandling and beyond
(4:16:14 PM) andreas_sun: ok. just a short update from my side
(4:17:15 PM) andreas_sun: I've enjoyed the UX Camp 2010 here in Berlin very much. tons of great presentations and great people. unfortunately I did not see a single presentation using
(4:17:41 PM) christoph_n: Off topic: Because all are using "Oracle Open Office"???
(4:17:49 PM) andreas_sun: :-)
(4:18:19 PM) andreas_sun: no, I got one. It was Jakub Franc from Prag, a Sun collegue :-)
(4:18:33 PM) andreas_sun: but he did not give a presentation :-(
(4:18:41 PM) clu_sun: we had a small ipad presentation today
(4:18:49 PM) christoph_n: Andreas, I think that is an important message. Maybe you should take the chance to communicate this within Sun / OOo community.
(4:18:51 PM) andreas_sun: nice!
(4:19:07 PM) christoph_n: Well, nice thing, isn't it?
(4:19:08 PM) andreas_sun: I wiil try to compile a blog post or something
(4:19:25 PM) christoph_n: andreas_sun: Did you see Elke Moritz from the LinuxTag?
(4:19:40 PM) andreas_sun: I saw his flyers but that's it
(4:20:02 PM) christoph_n: Okay, then I can tell a bit later. Just finish you topic :-)
(4:20:14 PM) andreas_sun: apropos iPad. many people at UX Camp had already one
(4:20:30 PM) clu_sun: i miss the keyboard
(4:20:35 PM) andreas_sun: unbelievable these early adopters
(4:20:53 PM) christoph_n: There had been a joke at the CHI last month: The highest density of iPads worldwide is in this conference room. I'm sure the speaker was right.
(4:21:04 PM) andreas_sun: it has one on the screen, a virtual one
(4:21:24 PM) clu_sun: rather not my taste :)
(4:21:30 PM) andreas_sun: lots of presentation were also already running on iPad
(4:22:01 PM) christoph_n: On this small screen??? ;-)
(4:22:15 PM) clu_sun: i already bought an 'ipad' with keyboard, called netbook :)
(4:22:59 PM) christoph_n: Something inverse ... it should be called netbooKi
(4:23:04 PM) andreas_sun: overall, ux folks still have a reserved attitude towards open source, community and UX
(4:23:51 PM) christoph_n: You already said that nobody used OOo there. I'm sure this is also true for other things like operating systems or open hardware.
(4:24:05 PM) clu_sun: i would guess the i is patented ;)
(4:24:15 PM) andreas_sun: sure. I only saw one guy using a netbook with ubuntu
(4:24:46 PM) christoph_n: Ubuntu, another topic I would like to add later. May I change the topic to LinuxTag?
(4:24:54 PM) andreas_sun: yes
(4:25:10 PM) christoph_n: Okay, as you may know I am going to the LinuxTag and presenting something on Saturday.
(4:25:20 PM) christoph_n: Well, "something" has still to be created, but ...
(4:26:02 PM) christoph_n: ... I had a very nice phone call with Björn from Apliki. We would like to bring together people who are interested in FOSS, Community and UX (see you comment, Andreas).
(4:26:37 PM) christoph_n: Well, I added another "workshop" (official wording) for an informal meeting during the LinuxTag. We want to invite everyone who is interested in the things mentioned above.
(4:27:07 PM) andreas_sun: good idea i think
(4:27:09 PM) christoph_n: Well, we are not quite sure about the schedule, but most probably Friday morning.
(4:27:20 PM) christoph_n: I already started a wiki page:
(4:27:44 PM) christoph_n: So - if anybody is reading this who in fact is interested and attending the LinuxTag - add yourself. :-)
(4:28:18 PM) christoph_n: I also revised the wiki pages a bit to add another sub-structure "Events". I also put the last years "Usability Done Live" (OOo 2009) there.
(4:28:57 PM) christoph_n: That's it at the moment. I hope to announce this meeting in the next few days. Björn will do that for KDE, KOffice, OpenUsability. I will send this to some speakers who might have interest. That's it at the moment.
(4:29:14 PM) christoph_n: Next topics: Ubuntu, OOoCon 2010 :-)
(4:29:31 PM) christoph_n: Question up to now?
(4:29:35 PM) andreas_sun: not from me
(4:29:35 PM) christoph_n: (+s)
(4:30:08 PM) christoph_n: Ah, I missed something. Elke (from LinuxTag) is also interested in UX topics. I hope she will join the meeting.
(4:30:29 PM) christoph_n: She also told me that she wants to go to the UX Camp in Berlin ... so I had hoped that you will meet her.
(4:30:53 PM) christoph_n: Upcoming: Ubuntu. Okay?
(4:30:56 PM) andreas_sun: ok
(4:31:30 PM) christoph_n: I think it is somehow related to the current visual branding initiative and the "enjoyment" factor for Renaissance. Did anybody had a look at 10.04?
(4:31:57 PM) andreas_sun: no in real. just saw the Mac-like screenhots
(4:32:31 PM) christoph_n: I upgraded my system yesterday...
(4:32:43 PM) christoph_n: ... and I think I'll blog about my experience. In short...
(4:33:11 PM) christoph_n: The changed the overall appearance for this LTS (=long term support) release, but I think they messed some things up.
(4:33:46 PM) christoph_n: By adding some more visual pleasure, they totally ignored some usability aspects like readability of buttons (black on gray), ...
(4:34:16 PM) christoph_n: ... reducing the window border to 0 ... 1 px (try to resize your window horizontally and you will go crazy), ...
(4:34:39 PM) christoph_n: ... or minimizing the buttons for the window control (like close). It is absolutely hard to click it.
(4:35:31 PM) andreas_sun: very unfortunate
(4:35:50 PM) christoph_n: Funnily, I saw an issue in their issue tracker that claims a bad behavior. If a window is maximized, then you may accidentally click the button "close" if you click in the near of the screen edge. They claimed bad mouseover visualization, but they provided a patch to remove that behavior. Adieu Fitt's Law.
(4:36:43 PM) christoph_n: Finally, we should have a look at that ... it is great with regard to visual design, but they reduced everyday usability in a long-term release. Sigh.
(4:37:41 PM) andreas_sun: how is your presentation doing?
(4:37:42 PM) christoph_n: So we shouldn't repeat that mistake in Renaissance (just a reminder) or in the current re-branding initiative (which partly happened). Consequently, if you have the chance to look at it, please try it.
(4:38:16 PM) andreas_sun: I'll try it with vBox
(4:38:48 PM) christoph_n: As I said, the presentation is just a something. I'm currently building the new install sets to make the screenshots. But to be honest, there isn't much, because I did many (tiny but numerous) things for the Council :-(
(4:38:59 PM) andreas_sun left the room (quit: Quit: andreas_sun).
(4:39:00 PM) christoph_n: I'll keep you up to date with that.
(4:39:41 PM) frankl: One info for the road :-): The 'Renaissance2' CWS (the one about layout) is approved by QA and will be integrated soon.
(4:39:54 PM) andreas_sun [] entered the room.
(4:40:06 PM) christoph_n: frankl: Great!
(4:40:07 PM) andreas_sun: sorry my laltop jsut died
(4:41:54 PM) frankl: rotten apple? ;-)
(4:41:57 PM) christoph_n: Well, one last topic from my side: OOoCon 2010. At the moment I don't have any clue how I can help or whether we should work on a topic together.
(4:42:10 PM) christoph_n: frankl: He just wants an iPad ;-)
(4:42:13 PM) christoph_n: Cheap trick!!!
(4:42:30 PM) andreas_sun: got me :-)
(4:42:52 PM) christoph_n: No, everything okay now?
(4:43:16 PM) andreas_sun: regarding OOoCon 2010, I was asked to support Christian Lippka in a presentation
(4:43:43 PM) frankl: A presentation about Renaissance?
(4:43:45 PM) christoph_n: Is it clear who will be in Barcelona this year (in terms of UX team)?
(4:44:20 PM) andreas_sun: CL is supposed to give a Renaissance presentation from a Dev perspective
(4:44:28 PM) christoph_n: Oh no!!! ;-)
(4:44:32 PM) frankl: Barcelona was great but will not be the place to be for this years OOo Con :-)
(4:44:41 PM) christoph_n: Grrr, sorry. Wrong time.
(4:44:54 PM) christoph_n: You arrived in 2010: Budapest.
(4:45:26 PM) andreas_sun: but as I said, bespite the agreement that I will support him, there is nothing set
(4:45:44 PM) frankl: I do not know if I will be around this year in Budapest.
(4:46:09 PM) christoph_n: So is there any idea what we can present additionally? Well, Renaissance topics are not that small (I hope...).
(4:46:15 PM) christoph_n: frankl: :-(
(4:48:08 PM) andreas_sun: i have no idea since I don't know anything about the audience
(4:49:10 PM) andreas_sun: not nothing, but who knows, if it's going to be like in Italy then it's quite hard to find an appropriate UX topic, just my 2 cents
(4:49:51 PM) christoph_n: Mmh, I'll think about it. Or maybe we can ask on our mailing list what people are (in general) interested in. If there is no interest, then we might simply skip it. Would be a pity from an UX pov.
(4:50:52 PM) frankl: IMHO most important is that Project Renaissance is well presented at OOo Con.
(4:51:15 PM) christoph_n: I thought there will only be one presentation? Well, also this can be done well :-)
(4:52:19 PM) andreas_sun: overall one presentation?
(4:52:27 PM) andreas_sun: you're kidding right :-)
(4:52:41 PM) andreas_sun: one presentation about what?
(4:52:41 PM) christoph_n: I am Renaissancing (= one presentation).
(4:52:48 PM) andreas_sun: aaah, ok
(4:53:02 PM) andreas_sun: i have no idea. where did you get that from?
(4:53:20 PM) christoph_n: I assumed it with regard to your statement of support CL.
(4:54:54 PM) andreas_sun: actually, I have no clear idea what that presentation was planned to be. I think I need to talk the CL once more
(4:55:46 PM) christoph_n: Okay. Maybe we can add a proposal later, if required. However, I'm sure that I will be there ... at least attending the 10th birthday of OOo with the CC.
(4:56:34 PM) christoph_n: Mmh, I think that is everything from my side.
(4:57:32 PM) andreas_sun: ok. any other topics, frank? clu?
(4:57:40 PM) frankl: Nope.
(4:57:54 PM) clu_sun: no
(4:58:47 PM) andreas_sun: ok. then we're done for today. talk to see next week! From HH then :-)
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