Renaissance:Status Meetings:2009-10-12

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Meeting Details

  • 2009-10-12, 4:00 PM CET
  • IRC details:

In Attendance

  • Martin Damboldt (IRC: mdamboldt)
  • Frank Loehmann (IRC: frankl)
  • Andreas Bartel (IRC: Andreas_sun)
  • Christoph Lukasiak (IRC: clu_sun)
  • Elizabteh Matthis (IRC: lizm)
  • dave_largo
  • phaoUNTOtom


  • User Feedback Program Data
  • Round Table

Action Items

Comments on Action Items

Round Table

  • N/A


<FrankL> Hi! It is time for our weekly OOo Renaissance meeting.
<FrankL> I will give a short update on the User Feedback Program.
<lizm> hi
<FrankL> I have used the user feedback data (aka usage tracking data). The data can be found here:
<lizm> great work. I'm glad we get so much data.
<FrankL> I have started to analyse the most common clicked items in toolbars, menus and shortcuts in Impress.
<FrankL> Hi Liz!
<lizm> When do you think you'll have the click analysis in Impress ready?
<FrankL> I am working on Impress mockups that show the data directly in the UI. It is a lot of work, because it is all hand made today. 
<lizm> I'm sure it will be a good visual for the results.
<FrankL> I hope to  have a first set ready this week. I am making good progress. 
<lizm> Are you going to blog about it? Let me know if I can be a help.
<FrankL> Even if it is hard work I really have enjoyed it! Thanks to our development and tooling to make that happen!
<FrankL> Yes, I will blog about it this week too.
<lizm> Sounds good.  The sharks are waiting to be fed ;-)
<FrankL> :-)
<lizm> I see Dave from Largo here. Hi dave_largo! Remember me from years ago? I was pleased to see that you helped with a survey at your office.
<FrankL> Do you know that the most called thing right behind 'delete' is the Transformation dialog in Impress? (Size & Position)
<lizm> Very interesting. It goes to show that the data is vital to our design decisions and understanding the product uses.
<lizm> I hope we'll be able to do more usability testing and surveys at more companies/organizations. I just heard from someone who says they will be rolling out OOo at their office soon and they would be glad to have us test or do surveys there.
<FrankL> I will also show this data on the OOoCon. We will have 2 presentations and 3 workshops in Orvieto.
<lizm> I hope lots of people attend the conference and the UX workshops, etcv.
<FrankL> Andreas will prepare surveys that we can send to customers. Andreas will be back next week.
<FrankL> That is all from my side? Anything else?
<FrankL> for today?
<lizm> Not that I can recall right now...OH wait: How is the Impress issue collection going? You had asked people to report some to you.
<lizm> I had also asked on the QA list to retag the issues till today.
<lizm> So, I hope when you do a new query tomorrow morning, that there will be more then just thirteen.
<lizm> I also posted a list of issues to the Renaissance mailing list.
<FrankL> The wiki page did not change:
<lizm> But they are just possibilities. I know you will have to sort out to create the final list.
<lizm> OK, if there are no additional issues in the wiki, then I'm counting on the QA retagging.
<FrankL> Just a moment I will do a query if anybody has assigned the 'usability' tag.
<FrankL> waiting for IssueZilla...
<lizm> If nothing else comes in, then we'll know that the community is otherwise engaged an not free to help with the task of sorting issues for UX and Impress criteria. They are likely preparing for Halloween :-)
<phaoUNTOtom> What is involved with the task of sorting issues for UX and Impress criteria?
<FrankL> We have 23 new issues flagged as usability issues! I will have a look on these issues later today.
<lizm> great!!!!!
<lizm> Thanks everyone who helped. I love the QA people, they are so active and knowledgible
<lizm> Don't forget to look at the list of issues I posted to the mailing list. They may be doubles, but just in case
<dave_largo> lizm:  morning!  Remind me of our interaction. :)
<dave_largo> I did show our executive secretaries the prototype on Thursday.
<lizm> ->phaoUNTOtom: Frank is in charge, but basically you can read his message on the UX-UI list to know what criteria there are. The idea is to have things to fix in 3.3
<lizm> dave->largo: I'm looking back to us mailing in 2004/2005 before I went on maternity leave. When I saw that Andreas and you had been in touch regarding surveys I was pleased. I still want to come to FL on a business trip, but my grandparents no longer live there.
<phaoUNTOtom> OK, is their a specific URI for the UX-UI list?  I may be able to help if time allows.  :-)
<dave_largo> We are having a Largo Hackfest, shaping up to be the end of January
<lizm> Which prototype did you show, or did you click through all 16? What did the executive secretaries think in general?
<dave_largo> lizm: I showed them the screenshot from the web page, I didn't run the GUI itself, it's way too slow here to use.
<dave_largo> They felt it would help most of the users, but they didn't like losing the real estate at the top for power users.
<lizm> ->phaoUNTOtom: time is running out, so at this point please mail frank directly to see what is left to do. Frank.Loehmann at
<phaoUNTOtom> lizm: OK
<FrankL> Bye!
<lizm> I hear you about the real estate. I just bought a net book. :-) But please reassure them that the UI is and will remain customizeable. They can drag the bars where they want them in the document window.
<dave_largo> I will, they understand that the new menus will help 90% of the users here.
<dave_largo> They also know that most people here never right mouse click
<dave_largo> so we have to have a flow for them that is simple and happens with the left mouse button
<dave_largo> I also explained my perception about the new UI:
<dave_largo> that MS Office 2007 tries to figure out what you are doing and slides in dynamic menus, whereas this new UI is asking you what you *want* to do.
<lizm> Oh, Dave, this is great stuff. I wish we could hear from lots more users like this. Thanks so much. Don't hesitate to send us any and all feedback you get.
<dave_largo> We just put another 100 users on our network, so that puts our count up to about 850 that can access OpenOffice.
<dave_largo> Dynamic and changing menus completely confuse them
<dave_largo> users don't read the icons, they memorize the position
<lizm> Wow, that's great. And I remember when it was something like 30 people. Yes, that was it. We were in touch when you were first rolling out OOo. Maybe even earlier than the years I mentioned. Oh how time flies.
<lizm> I have to say that dynamic and sliding menus make me motion sick :-)
<dave_largo> We had 30 people testing around 2003, during the beta period
<lizm> Yup that was it!
<dave_largo> and then fall of 2003 went live.
<dave_largo> We went live on 1.1
<lizm> I am pleased to hear that all is still OOo and that you never turned back.
<lizm> I wonder where Frank went. I guess I'm doing enough talking for both of us. Not unusual for me ;-)
<dave_largo> Ha, well there are still some angry people at times,....
<dave_largo> but our assistant city manager told those people that if they can create a model whereby we save money with MS Office, he would consider a change knowing full well it's impossible :)
<dave_largo> Even if there are a few extra clicks in a few areas, you can't possibly recoup your money
<phaoUNTOtom> I'd like to second dave_largo statement that "users don't read the icons, they memorize the position"
<dave_largo> Without a doubt they do, even a theme change messes them up
<lizm> I never change the theme and I never customize the UI. I have a visual memory and memorize too. I think it is pretty common. Thank you phaoUNOTtom and Dave for your insights. 
<lizm> I think it is great to hear about normal people.
<phaoUNTOtom> You are most welcome.
<phaoUNTOtom> Bye for now .
<lizm> Too often the loudest voices are tech-geniuses, who think everyone is willing to go to great lengths to change an application to their needs.
<lizm> Joe average is usually not on IRC or blogs or OOo mailing lists. He is too busy trying to figure out how to print his documents, etc. That is why the surveys and usage tracking are sooooo impt.
<lizm> AND why your asking the secretaries is excellent. I really mean it. We need more people like you. Thx again.
<dave_largo> no problem! There is ton of data here for sure. :)
<lizm> Okay, I'm going now. I look forward to hearing more from you. Andreas or I may contact you directly for more insights if that is okay. Not just yet, but when more ideas are in the works or mockups are out there to try.
<lizm> Bye

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