Log content 25august

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Aug 25 22:41:18 paveljanik ;-)

Aug 25 23:00:46 paveljanik 23:00...

Aug 25 23:02:16 paveljanik ericb2: ping

Aug 25 23:02:26 paveljanik can we start the meeting now?

Aug 25 23:02:33 ericb2 hi all :-)

Aug 25 23:02:41 ericb2 paveljanik: yes

Aug 25 23:03:29 ericb2 Let's go with the news

Aug 25 23:04:46 ericb2 is Shaun around ?

Aug 25 23:05:34 ericb2 apparently, his ssh key is ok, and Shaun can now help us for the website

Aug 25 23:05:47 ericb2 new devs ?

Aug 25 23:06:33 * ChristianL has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

Aug 25 23:06:43 ericb2 The first point I want to discuss is aout last meeting

Aug 25 23:07:52 ericb2 Christian is really gone ?

Aug 25 23:07:53 ericb2 :)

Aug 25 23:08:22 * paveljanik suspect his invaders have eaten all his memory ;-)

Aug 25 23:08:38 aliscafo he has been terminated...

Aug 25 23:08:44 ericb2 As requested/expected last week, Shaun created new pages on the wiki, about aqua port

Aug 25 23:08:56 ericb2 about meeting contents too

Aug 25 23:09:26 ericb2 I asked for a vote too

Aug 25 23:09:53 ericb2 about create a specific mailing list for aqua developpement on porting

Aug 25 23:10:09 ericb2 and we were not enough to decide

Aug 25 23:10:55 ericb2 +1 fro me, shaun , schmidtm

Aug 25 23:11:11 ericb2 -1 from maho and obr

Aug 25 23:11:14 * shaunmcdonald (n=shaunmcd@62-31-11-174.cable.ubr02.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 25 23:11:26 shaunmcdonald sorry i'm late

Aug 25 23:11:27 ericb2 ChristianL +1

Aug 25 23:11:44 ericb2 aliscafo: pleas remind me your vote ?

Aug 25 23:11:55 ericb2 aliscafo: was +1

Aug 25 23:11:58 paveljanik As I will be reading both and in mix them into one folder anyway, I do not care.

Aug 25 23:12:00 aliscafo ericb2: +1 yes

Aug 25 23:12:02 shaunmcdonald ericb2: what vote?

Aug 25 23:12:12 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: about aqua list

Aug 25 23:12:14 paveljanik so 0

Aug 25 23:12:20 ericb2 paveljanik: noticed

Aug 25 23:12:35 paveljanik But what I'd like to avoid is people jumping into learnign Carbon instead of fixing X11 bugs...

Aug 25 23:12:36 ericb2 none else will vote ?

Aug 25 23:12:56 shaunmcdonald ah, so setup a separete list just for aqua stuff?

Aug 25 23:13:02 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes

Aug 25 23:13:13 shaunmcdonald +1

Aug 25 23:13:32 aliscafo ericb2: sorry to bring that up again, but wouldn't a forum make more sense for user

Aug 25 23:14:00 aliscafo ericb2: i know it's not the most important issue, just my 2 cents

Aug 25 23:14:11 ericb2 aliscafo: our lists are available using gmane, if I'm not wrong

Aug 25 23:14:18 shaunmcdonald aliscafo: this is for developers, not users

Aug 25 23:14:39 shaunmcdonald ericb2: they have to be setup, not all are available

Aug 25 23:14:43 aliscafo shaunmcdonald: i thought it was for users sorry my bad

Aug 25 23:15:27 shaunmcdonald ericb2: there is also the archive on the ooo site within each project

Aug 25 23:15:36 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes

Aug 25 23:16:26 ericb2 I propsoe continue this point in misc, we have important point this evening, and create a new list is secondary.

Aug 25 23:16:30 ericb2 ok ?

Aug 25 23:16:31 * ChristianL (n=Christia@e177163149.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 25 23:17:24 ericb2 another point in last meeting was : maho proposed to create some page about QA process on the wiki.

Aug 25 23:17:37 ericb2 anyone knows something ?

Aug 25 23:18:02 ericb2 that's all for the first point

Aug 25 23:18:10 ericb2 Point 2 : last changes in Aqua

Aug 25 23:18:18 ericb2 Pavel, Christian ?

Aug 25 23:19:00 ChristianL I'm still working on the raster operations. some bugfixes, we now can play invaders

Aug 25 23:19:18 paveljanik I added env. variables AQUA_* so we can easily test both VCL and native controls and menus.

Aug 25 23:19:40 paveljanik fixed menus, but unfortunately m182 broke them again, but it is not bug in aquavcl01 :-(

Aug 25 23:19:49 paveljanik UTF8 encoded menus fork OK.

Aug 25 23:19:59 paveljanik also menu items and menu activation events.

Aug 25 23:20:00 shaunmcdonald ericb2: and they worked in ericb2's build

Aug 25 23:20:09 ericb2 maybe we could start with : OpenOffice.org runs without X11 . Launch it is still not easy, but it works

Aug 25 23:20:26 paveljanik no, it starts ;-)

Aug 25 23:20:33 shaunmcdonald ericb2: even registration works :-)

Aug 25 23:20:41 paveljanik sometimes. Sometimes without splash etc.

Aug 25 23:20:43 paveljanik ;-)

Aug 25 23:20:48 ericb2 from my side, I can enter text in DRaw and writer

Aug 25 23:20:53 ChristianL but it does not run out of the box yet

Aug 25 23:20:53 shaunmcdonald ericb2: no need to disable it as you have said

Aug 25 23:21:09 paveljanik I can't fill info into firststartwizard contact page...

Aug 25 23:21:15 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: you're lucky. I never could make it work

Aug 25 23:21:40 ericb2 paveljanik: just the keyboard must enabled

Aug 25 23:21:47 ericb2 rawevents

Aug 25 23:21:53 shaunmcdonald ericb2: have to always disable the crash reporter though

Aug 25 23:21:55 ChristianL I think after fixing the event loop problem the next big think is fixing the text

Aug 25 23:22:02 paveljanik yep

Aug 25 23:22:35 paveljanik ChristianL: does keyboard work for you in invaders?

Aug 25 23:22:45 ericb2 ChristianL: what I observed is : hit one key and you got a complete line ( ~300 chars )

Aug 25 23:22:50 ChristianL paveljanik: I have not yet add your keyboard patch

Aug 25 23:23:08 paveljanik ChristianL: OK, I'll have a look at it in the night.

Aug 25 23:23:14 ChristianL ericb2: I don't mean the text input, I think that can be fixed easy. I mean the multiple line crashes and hangs

Aug 25 23:23:18 paveljanik what else regarding native port?

Aug 25 23:23:19 shaunmcdonald ericb2: I noticed that too, but it took a while to do it

Aug 25 23:23:19 ericb2 ChristianL: the text layout is something funky currently

Aug 25 23:24:10 ChristianL maybe I can motivate stephan a bit next week

Aug 25 23:24:12 ericb2 ChristianL: Oliver told me it's maybe because some pointer are not reinitialized in destructors

Aug 25 23:24:33 ericb2 ChristianL: multiline destroctor gave me pretty crashes, right

Aug 25 23:24:50 ericb2 destructor

Aug 25 23:25:15 ChristianL ericb2: Have you ever tried to valgrind? :)

Aug 25 23:25:24 * maho (n=chatzill@softbank219188128038.bbtec.net) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 25 23:25:27 ericb2 ChristianL: no. Never used valgrind

Aug 25 23:25:35 ericb2 hello maho :-)

Aug 25 23:25:45 maho hi all , hi ericb2 ...

Aug 25 23:25:55 ericb2 For the one interested in some screeshts, I have some links

Aug 25 23:26:08 ericb2 Native controls (work in progress) :http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/native_controls_part3/

Aug 25 23:26:08 ericb2 Native menus (work in progress) : native_menus.jpg

Aug 25 23:26:08 ericb2 Enter text (work in progress ): http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/ats_24august/

Aug 25 23:26:42 ericb2 and if I can, I ave a list of "identified bugs"

Aug 25 23:27:02 ericb2 one important is redrawing

Aug 25 23:27:27 ericb2 when you modify something in a window, only resize the window redraws correctly the content

Aug 25 23:27:41 ericb2 there is some work for Tino IMO

Aug 25 23:27:44 paveljanik for me, even the first window is not correctly drawn - I have to resize.

Aug 25 23:27:51 ericb2 paveljanik: right

Aug 25 23:27:56 ChristianL me too

Aug 25 23:28:24 ericb2 paveljanik: and resize withut hit vcl part, else -> freeze

Aug 25 23:28:55 ericb2 ChristianL: is it possible to deactivate areas whre vcl controls are active ?

Aug 25 23:29:25 ericb2 e.g. : resizing_bug.jpg

Aug 25 23:29:29 ChristianL ericb2: Which control do you mean?

Aug 25 23:29:47 ericb2 ChristianL: the one on bottom right

Aug 25 23:30:05 ericb2 ChristianL: the grey rectangle under the Aqua control

Aug 25 23:30:11 ChristianL I don't know yet

Aug 25 23:30:27 paveljanik and where it crash? gdb output?

Aug 25 23:30:33 ericb2 ChristianL: to reproduce, try to resize in common area

Aug 25 23:30:39 ericb2 paveljanik: freeze

Aug 25 23:30:54 ericb2 paveljanik: probably an event loop issue

Aug 25 23:31:00 paveljanik so stop it and print the stack, cont, stop, print the stack to get some info

Aug 25 23:31:08 ChristianL paveljanik: I'm on it

Aug 25 23:31:14 paveljanik ChristianL: OK.

Aug 25 23:31:54 paveljanik I think in the near future, we will be in the status where we should start filing proper issues for our problems...

Aug 25 23:32:06 ericb2 something imortant would be to help us to debug. I have some basic knowledge, but I'm interested with tips using gdb

Aug 25 23:32:10 ericb2 important

Aug 25 23:32:28 ChristianL ericb2: I have no such rectangle

Aug 25 23:32:40 ericb2 for the one reading french, I have writen some docs about gdb

Aug 25 23:33:29 ericb2 ChristianL: did you set AQUA_NATIVE_CONTROLS to TRUE ?

Aug 25 23:33:58 ericb2 ChristianL: verified with both Tino's build and mine

Aug 25 23:35:32 ChristianL ericb2: No, even with native controls

Aug 25 23:35:45 ChristianL but we can discuss this another time I think

Aug 25 23:35:49 paveljanik I too do no have that rectangle in my build...

Aug 25 23:35:53 ericb2 ChristianL: I promise I didn't cheat with my screenshot :-)

Aug 25 23:36:44 ericb2 BTW, I can upload a PPC build on demand

Aug 25 23:37:16 ChristianL ericb2: If you do not cheat, where is your status bar?

Aug 25 23:38:03 ericb2 ChristianL: I cut the interesting part of the shot

Aug 25 23:38:26 ericb2 ChristianL: this is just the window, at startup

Aug 25 23:39:21 ericb2 ChristianL: let me 5 minutes to show you another interesting effect

Aug 25 23:39:31 paveljanik after the meeting please

Aug 25 23:39:37 ChristianL +1

Aug 25 23:40:57 paveljanik what next?

Aug 25 23:41:19 paveljanik aliscafo: what is the status of you rwork on controls?

Aug 25 23:41:24 paveljanik any other info?

Aug 25 23:41:26 ericb2 nothing java works

Aug 25 23:43:21 ericb2 aliscafo: ?

Aug 25 23:44:13 ericb2 ChristianL: for scrollbar, We discussed with Pierre, and he convinced me to just implement drawNativeControl()

Aug 25 23:44:23 ericb2 ChristianL: no ImplDrawNativeControl()

Aug 25 23:44:34 ericb2 ChristianL: just use default theme

Aug 25 23:45:34 ChristianL yes as I said, you do not have to do it exactly like windows

Aug 25 23:45:53 ericb2 ChristianL: I'm ok

Aug 25 23:46:14 ericb2 ChristianL: I'll try to add things progressively

Aug 25 23:46:25 paveljanik ericb2: so do you have some screenshots to show?

Aug 25 23:46:31 paveljanik or sample code?

Aug 25 23:46:33 paveljanik aliscafo: ?

Aug 25 23:46:40 ericb2 I know Pierre fixed other controls, but better wait a bit

Aug 25 23:46:48 ericb2 he's maybe not far

Aug 25 23:47:15 ericb2 paveljanik: just writen my plan on a paper, far from the screen

Aug 25 23:47:50 ericb2 paveljanik: implement getThemeHandle() e.g. is very important for other controls

Aug 25 23:48:48 ericb2 No other news from aqua port ?

Aug 25 23:49:13 ericb2 Point 3 ?

Aug 25 23:49:24 ericb2 Process of integrating changes from aquavcl01 into the main tree

Aug 25 23:49:29 paveljanik I'd like head aliscafo's status as well, but it can wait.

Aug 25 23:49:36 paveljanik ok, point 3.

Aug 25 23:49:41 * obr_ (n=olli@d018097.adsl.hansenet.de) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 25 23:50:17 paveljanik as you know, my opinion on integration of aquavcl01 from the last meeting (it does not make sense now), I have prepared proposal for integration of some fixes from it...

Aug 25 23:50:23 paveljanik I sent it to the list

Aug 25 23:50:32 ericb2 Yes, the starting point is Pavel's mail

Aug 25 23:50:48 ericb2 one minute, i'll give the link to the archives

Aug 25 23:51:14 ericb2 http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=mac&msgNo=3384

Aug 25 23:52:10 paveljanik opinions?

Aug 25 23:52:17 ericb2 from my side I completely agree. We must have a strategy for aquavcl01 integration

Aug 25 23:52:28 ericb2 and mad64 experience helps

Aug 25 23:52:38 paveljanik this process was a large lesson from ooo64bit01, 02 etc...

Aug 25 23:52:42 paveljanik yes

Aug 25 23:52:50 maho question : we need to make some cwses other than aquavcl?

Aug 25 23:53:00 maho take aquavcl as head?

Aug 25 23:53:26 paveljanik maho: have you read my proposal?

Aug 25 23:53:40 maho briefly...

Aug 25 23:54:10 paveljanik yes, for us, we will work in aquavcl01 as a HEAD. Sometimes, some fixes from it will be duplicated in other cws, integrated and will be removed from aquavcl01 on resync.

Aug 25 23:54:58 maho I didn't understand `"upstream" - report them to other projects, fix the in small cwses'

Aug 25 23:55:03 maho in your e-mail.

Aug 25 23:55:18 paveljanik upstream for the fix in freetype for us is module gsl ;-)

Aug 25 23:55:44 maho okay, as you told just above, we need some double efforts ;)

Aug 25 23:56:02 maho for one issue, to cwses

Aug 25 23:56:04 maho to -> two

Aug 25 23:56:35 paveljanik maho: no. We can report it to other project and wait until they fix it properly in their own cwses ;-)

Aug 25 23:56:53 paveljanik the goal is to prevent LARGE QA overhead at the end of aquavcl01...

Aug 25 23:57:14 maho um,

Aug 25 23:57:17 maho hm

Aug 25 23:57:21 paveljanik but IMHO we should not spend too much time discussing stuff not directly connected with native port...

Aug 25 23:57:28 ericb2 Currently, 10 modules are currently cncerned by aquavcl01 : canvas dtrans extensions freetype padmin psprint scp2 sj2 solenv and vcl. the "core" of aquavcl01 is vcl

Aug 25 23:57:51 ericb2 any volunteer for this job ?

Aug 25 23:57:57 ChristianL Its to bad that we can't 'remove' projects from the cws

Aug 25 23:58:08 ericb2 ChristianL: yes

Aug 25 23:58:18 ericb2 ChristianL: all resync will continue to use them

Aug 25 23:58:21 paveljanik ChristianL: I have promise from heiner, that he will work on it ;-)

Aug 25 23:58:29 paveljanik cwsremove :-)

Aug 25 23:58:51 paveljanik before it, we can ask for manual module removal as we did with ooo64bit02.

Aug 25 23:58:58 ericb2 like cwsremove patch

Aug 25 23:59:01 maho Last question: do we need to fill out spec? (IMHO we don't need it this is a porting effort)

Aug 25 23:59:04 * ericb2 joking

Aug 25 23:59:15 ChristianL maho: no

Aug 25 23:59:37 maho okay

Aug 25 23:59:38 ericb2 maho: good question :-)

Aug 25 23:59:48 paveljanik at least not yet. I can imagine we will need new VCL functionality in the future...

Aug 26 00:00:02 ericb2 paveljanik: you mean new vcl ?

Aug 26 00:00:12 ericb2 :)

Aug 26 00:00:21 paveljanik ;-)

Aug 26 00:00:24 ChristianL paveljanik: But we should wait for new visible features until we finished aquavcl01

Aug 26 00:00:27 * obr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

Aug 26 00:00:38 ChristianL I mean visible features beside porting

Aug 26 00:00:40 paveljanik ChristianL: yes, of course. And maybe even aquavcl03...

Aug 26 00:01:24 * obr_ is now known as obr

Aug 26 00:01:47 paveljanik ericb2: we do not need volunteer. Read my mail to the end.

Aug 26 00:01:55 * ericb2 reads

Aug 26 00:02:20 paveljanik I'll bug you all to help me ;-)

Aug 26 00:02:25 ChristianL do we already have fixes for aqua only in other modules than vcl?

Aug 26 00:02:27 ericb2 paveljanik: was hidden under another window :-)

Aug 26 00:02:50 ericb2 ChristianL: solenv for the build

Aug 26 00:02:52 paveljanik ChristianL: only build fixes so far, non-code stuff.

Aug 26 00:03:08 ericb2 ChristianL: dtrans maybe

Aug 26 00:03:25 ChristianL I was thinking about moving all aqua stuff from vcl to a new project, so we don't need to ship two vcl libs if we support x11&native in one inst set

Aug 26 00:04:11 paveljanik ChristianL: uff, I somehow prefer the current setup. At least now :-)

Aug 26 00:04:17 paveljanik it was only an idea...

Aug 26 00:04:35 ericb2 We have to take care with the libs linked with Xlib

Aug 26 00:05:20 ChristianL technicaly there is no need that what is in vcl/aqua stays in the vcl lib. but just an idea for now

Aug 26 00:05:48 ericb2 ChristianL: we need the independant platform part ?

Aug 26 00:06:30 ChristianL we could have something like aquasal.dylib and x11sal.dylib and load the dynamic. depending on a startup switch maybe

Aug 26 00:07:54 shaunmcdonald ChristianL: some graphically set switch?

Aug 26 00:07:55 ChristianL can be done later, so maybe sleep over it :)

Aug 26 00:08:38 ericb2 ChristianL: really, I think build for X11 and Aqua is not a good idea. And te future of OpenOfice.org on Mac OS X is Aqua

Aug 26 00:09:01 paveljanik yay, this is why Apple invented Universal Binaries... ;-)

Aug 26 00:09:09 paveljanik The future is Intel, BUT...

Aug 26 00:09:14 paveljanik in the meantime...

Aug 26 00:09:23 ericb2 UB + X11 + Aqua + .. 64bits ? :-)

Aug 26 00:09:33 ChristianL ok maybe we discuss this at the point in time we actually have a native port for users

Aug 26 00:09:41 paveljanik yes...

Aug 26 00:09:54 paveljanik but I'm happy at least we think of it ;-)

Aug 26 00:10:21 ericb2 Other quesiotns about this point ?

Aug 26 00:10:23 paveljanik it will make our debugging easy...

Aug 26 00:10:36 ericb2 no objections ?

Aug 26 00:10:37 paveljanik no

Aug 26 00:10:44 maho no

Aug 26 00:11:11 ericb2 I think Pavel's proposal is accepted by unanimity

Aug 26 00:11:12 obr no

Aug 26 00:11:19 ericb2 obr: sorry :)

Aug 26 00:11:23 obr np

Aug 26 00:11:42 ericb2 Point 4 : Todolist and Roadmap

Aug 26 00:12:12 ericb2 on http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings I proposed a todolist and a roadmap for native prt

Aug 26 00:12:32 ericb2 First todo list

Aug 26 00:13:37 ericb2 these is one of the most often asked questions at the WWDC, when I discussed with other devs or ...  : "... do you have a todo list ?"

Aug 26 00:13:53 ericb2 so I propose one

Aug 26 00:15:08 paveljanik hos is your new TODO connected with your old TODO at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Porting_- _Work_Areas/Todo%27s

Aug 26 00:15:18 ericb2 what is missing is the link for the wiki page about todo's

Aug 26 00:15:30 ericb2 I think put this link at the end

Aug 26 00:16:03 ericb2 the problem we have : the wiki page needs update, and none ..cares

Aug 26 00:16:17 paveljanik I think this one TODO is anough, and simply have to update it and keep it up-to-date.

Aug 26 00:16:37 paveljanik yes, we don't need several TODOs. One is enough and we have to find someone managing it.

Aug 26 00:16:42 ChristianL I'm with paveljanik, but I think also we need a roadmap for the TODO's

Aug 26 00:16:43 ericb2 paveljanik: my first idea is to blog about Todolist and a Roadmap

Aug 26 00:16:50 shaunmcdonald What is going to happen to the current todo?

Aug 26 00:17:04 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: we will try to update

Aug 26 00:17:05 paveljanik I'd first prefer to discuss roadmap anyway. We all simply should have a common goal.

Aug 26 00:17:11 paveljanik 1. remove x11

Aug 26 00:17:21 paveljanik 2. continue with aquafication.

Aug 26 00:17:26 paveljanik 1. is crucial for me!

Aug 26 00:17:49 paveljanik although I worked on menus, but this was interesting to get some Carbon knowledge.

Aug 26 00:17:55 ChristianL paveljanik: +1, we should have a working aqua port before we do the candy stuff like native file manager

Aug 26 00:18:24 ChristianL with aqua I also include native menu and controls

Aug 26 00:18:24 ericb2 paveljanik: to reach 1, we need very high level devs, and for 2, I think at least controls are a good compromise

Aug 26 00:18:30 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: that is a very good high level view

Aug 26 00:18:54 ericb2 paveljanik: and this is less complicated to help for control.

Aug 26 00:19:07 ericb2 paveljanik: I really think both can be made in parallel

Aug 26 00:19:13 paveljanik of course if we have something more (some controls, menus) good, but non-X11 is crucial!

Aug 26 00:20:04 paveljanik because after we remove X11, we will have to create the package for users! This is also lot of work and at this time, people can continue on native conrols, menus, spell, filemanager, ...

Aug 26 00:20:15 paveljanik but 1. remove X11 is crucial!

Aug 26 00:20:23 paveljanik and again:

Aug 26 00:20:26 paveljanik 1. remove X11 is crucial!

Aug 26 00:20:27 ericb2 paveljanik: ATS, Drawing, events is very complicated

Aug 26 00:20:42 ericb2 s/is/are/

Aug 26 00:20:47 paveljanik we can't do controls without having redraw corrected.

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Aug 26 00:20:55 paveljanik We can;t do easy stuff because it is easy now!

Aug 26 00:21:18 paveljanik having button, perfectly working is enough for the first phase.

Aug 26 00:21:19 ericb2 paveljanik: some of us can't simply contribute for complicated parts

Aug 26 00:21:38 ChristianL from my point of view what is missing for point 1: text layout, complete font support, keyboard support, fixing repaint issues, having aqua install and run out of the box

Aug 26 00:22:06 paveljanik ChristianL: yes, at least now. maybe during the time working fonts will bring other issues.

Aug 26 00:22:13 paveljanik which we can;t see yet.

Aug 26 00:22:22 ChristianL I like to start on the repaint and keyboard issues

Aug 26 00:22:53 paveljanik Thanks!

Aug 26 00:23:18 ChristianL for text and font we either need a good c++ developer who likes to get deep into thinks or we must motivate stephan and herbert

Aug 26 00:23:18 ericb2 ChristianL: I agree with your list. For keyboard, I tested Pavel's work, and I have noticed some bugs

Aug 26 00:23:47 paveljanik BTW: work is a too strong word ;-)

Aug 26 00:24:19 ericb2 ChristianL: they are not motivated ? :-)

Aug 26 00:24:36 ChristianL they are but the need to devote more time :)

Aug 26 00:25:16 ericb2 ChristianL: if I'm not wrong, hdu told me about 700 issues about fonts  :0

Aug 26 00:25:20 ChristianL from my point of view, repaint and keyboard is simple and easy to fix. setup just is work. but layout and font is crucial and needs time and specialists

Aug 26 00:26:28 paveljanik I'll try to help obr with installing and bundle

Aug 26 00:26:30 ericb2 does a documentation about the work already done in aquavcl01 exist ?

Aug 26 00:27:24 * aliscafo_ (n=aliscafo@adsl-074-237-094-051.sip.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 26 00:28:14 ericb2 paveljanik: in the top 10, people often ask " when I close the window, OpenOffice.org is closed ". I think launch another application, lauching OpenOffice.org could help to solve this and maybe more

Aug 26 00:28:41 paveljanik ericb2: this will be on our TODO after we remove X11.

Aug 26 00:28:45 ericb2 paveljanik: thus, close athe last window won't close OpenOffice.org anymore

Aug 26 00:28:53 paveljanik in fact, not exiting is quite simple ;-)

Aug 26 00:28:58 ericb2 paveljanik: put this in setup

Aug 26 00:28:58 ChristianL ericb2: I think we should modify the 'backing' window for that

Aug 26 00:29:18 paveljanik setup?

Aug 26 00:29:33 ericb2 paveljanik: sorry, bundle

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Aug 26 00:29:41 paveljanik do we have a list of questions people often ask?

Aug 26 00:29:52 ericb2 of course

Aug 26 00:29:58 paveljanik this is not connected with the bundle but with the application itself.

Aug 26 00:30:10 ericb2 native filpicker, native printing box drag and drop

Aug 26 00:30:39 paveljanik so we can create a list of KNOWN_BUGS ;-)

Aug 26 00:30:41 ericb2 paveljanik: I'm not sure, maybe a simple solution can be found

Aug 26 00:30:57 ericb2 paveljanik: there is already one on the wiki

Aug 26 00:31:23 paveljanik for first Aqua version of OOo (ie. OOo without X11).

Aug 26 00:31:57 ericb2 paveljanik: do you mean the current one, or when launcher will work ?

Aug 26 00:32:08 paveljanik launcher?

Aug 26 00:32:26 ericb2 paveljanik: bundle ...whatever thing to be clicked on

Aug 26 00:32:48 ericb2 paveljanik: currently we do black magic to make it work

Aug 26 00:32:53 paveljanik yes, without it, there is no app for users

Aug 26 00:33:03 ChristianL ericb2, paveljanik: I think the clicked on binary must be soffice.bin or the events will not work

Aug 26 00:33:06 paveljanik aliscafo_: ping

Aug 26 00:33:23 paveljanik ChristianL: yes.

Aug 26 00:33:29 aliscafo_ paveljanik: yes

Aug 26 00:33:36 obr no shell scripts in between ?

Aug 26 00:33:38 ChristianL so +1 for the backing window

Aug 26 00:33:38 ericb2 ChristianL: because of event loop need main threads ?

Aug 26 00:33:49 paveljanik aliscafo_: can you tell us the status of your work on native controls?

Aug 26 00:34:07 ChristianL ericb2: no but as I understood there can only be one executable assigned to an *.app

Aug 26 00:34:08 paveljanik obr: yes, we can't have them.

Aug 26 00:34:09 * obr thinks of all the stuff soffice.sh is doing

Aug 26 00:34:22 paveljanik obr: very simple:

Aug 26 00:34:31 paveljanik main() {

Aug 26 00:34:39 paveljanik #ifdef MACOSX

Aug 26 00:34:55 paveljanik system("soffice.sh")

Aug 26 00:34:56 aliscafo_ paveljanik: well I am implementing the simple controls first because I noticed that controls such as scrollbars, spinboxes will take more time, so my goal is to finish the simiple ones first correct all the bugs and then look at the more difficult ones

Aug 26 00:34:58 paveljanik #endif

Aug 26 00:35:03 paveljanik ... almost that simple...

Aug 26 00:35:16 * plum (n=plum@bob75-1-81-57-229-223.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 26 00:35:23 paveljanik aliscafo_: good idea!

Aug 26 00:35:38 obr paveljanik: and events will still work ?

Aug 26 00:35:41 * zaudragon (n=takumi@growl/zaudragon) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 26 00:36:04 plum hello eric <===> tatouille

Aug 26 00:36:10 ChristianL paveljanik: that does not work, some environment stuff must be set before soffice.bin can run

Aug 26 00:36:11 ericb2 plum: hello

Aug 26 00:36:11 paveljanik obr: only the binary named the same as the Execname in the Ino.plist will receive events.

Aug 26 00:36:15 * zaudragon (n=takumi@growl/zaudragon) has left #ooo_macport

Aug 26 00:36:31 plum i check your post on macg?

Aug 26 00:36:50 paveljanik ChristianL: yes, we have to modify our startup procedure a bit.

Aug 26 00:36:57 * The_Tick (n=the_tick@growl/the-tick) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 26 00:37:08 ericb2 plum: yes, thank's. We started some times ago, but the log will be available just after

Aug 26 00:37:28 plum ok thanks

Aug 26 00:37:40 paveljanik ChristianL: I think there is not many interesting stuff needed, especially on Mac OS X...

Aug 26 00:37:40 The_Tick plum: please don't spam channels :)

Aug 26 00:37:55 ericb2 plum: meeting started 23:00 french hour

Aug 26 00:38:29 paveljanik ... ./droplet now works, so... ;-)

Aug 26 00:38:30 plum yes i know i'm in late i just live my job

Aug 26 00:38:36 ericb2 paveljanik: hmm :-)

Aug 26 00:39:00 aliscafo_ paveljanik: also we need to find a way to handle progress bar with the nativewidget file, I don't see a way to do it right now

Aug 26 00:39:11 paveljanik obr: I have tried to use relative path in info.plist, but it does not work, only the app name must be there.

Aug 26 00:39:43 paveljanik aliscafo_: can you describe the problem to the mailing list?

Aug 26 00:39:53 paveljanik maybe we can find some solution.

Aug 26 00:39:54 aliscafo_ paveljanik: i will

Aug 26 00:39:58 obr paveljanik: o.k., thanks for trying.

Aug 26 00:40:09 ChristianL paveljanik: then we must get rid of the program directory

Aug 26 00:40:48 paveljanik obr: what I do right now is to move the directory structure one level up, so that program/soffice.bin becomes droplet and that's all. the bundle is a bit of a mess, but it works.

Aug 26 00:41:04 paveljanik ChristianL: I think too many places reference it...

Aug 26 00:41:34 ericb2 paveljanik: maybe

Aug 26 00:41:35 plum paveljanik : mainBundle = CFBundleGetMainBundle();

Aug 26 00:41:51 paveljanik we have to try what happens if we replace our current droplet with main(){exec something else} etc.

Aug 26 00:42:29 paveljanik plum: ?

Aug 26 00:42:38 obr paveljanik: I am still debugging an afp problem saving new files - will get to the bundle later

Aug 26 00:43:42 ChristianL what about havving a writer.app, calc.app, impress.app, draw.app? how can they share stuff?

Aug 26 00:43:59 The_Tick a framework

Aug 26 00:44:14 The_Tick throw all your code into a framework

Aug 26 00:44:22 The_Tick and then just include that framework in each

Aug 26 00:44:26 plum paveljanik : "then we must get rid of the program directory"

Aug 26 00:44:46 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: and then a .pkg instead of a drag and drop install

Aug 26 00:44:47 The_Tick it's how we have folks utilize the growl framework

Aug 26 00:44:51 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: no

Aug 26 00:44:58 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: for instance

Aug 26 00:45:03 The_Tick yahoo messenger beta

Aug 26 00:45:09 The_Tick it utilizes Growl.framework

Aug 26 00:45:17 The_Tick by bundling it inside of the application

Aug 26 00:45:45 The_Tick folks do this as well with Sparkle/Sparkle+

Aug 26 00:46:00 paveljanik plum: program is a directory in our structure. many part of the current codebase depend on it. I do not want to fight with all instances of "program" in whole OOo codebase ;-)

Aug 26 00:46:01 The_Tick and other things

Aug 26 00:46:24 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: ah I see

Aug 26 00:46:31 The_Tick look on the growl developer docs

Aug 26 00:46:33 The_Tick cocoa ones

Aug 26 00:46:38 The_Tick more towards the bottom

Aug 26 00:46:51 The_Tick gives somewhat verbose instructions on how to do it

Aug 26 00:46:57 The_Tick well, include it

Aug 26 00:46:59 ChristianL I would prefer one app per office application, better than always starting writer first and is also more iWork like

Aug 26 00:47:13 The_Tick ChristianL: that's also the mac way

Aug 26 00:47:43 The_Tick shipping a large application that does just everything sucks

Aug 26 00:47:52 paveljanik yup, but we have to first remove X11 completely ;-)

Aug 26 00:47:55 The_Tick and you'll get a lot of flack from mac users who won't understand stuff

Aug 26 00:47:58 ChristianL so could someone use the current native build and set up something like that by hand to test?

Aug 26 00:48:00 The_Tick paveljanik: heh

Aug 26 00:48:01 The_Tick honestly

Aug 26 00:48:16 The_Tick just start from scratch with cocoa

Aug 26 00:48:19 The_Tick might be easier :)

Aug 26 00:48:30 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: would we use just one framework for all the apps?

Aug 26 00:48:34 paveljanik The_Tick: hmm, when none knows ObjC? ;-)

Aug 26 00:48:36 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: or many

Aug 26 00:48:39 paveljanik nonsense...

Aug 26 00:48:41 ericb2 I can provide both Intel and PowerPC build

Aug 26 00:48:46 The_Tick paveljanik: http://brok3n.org/cocoa.html

Aug 26 00:48:52 The_Tick time to learn?

Aug 26 00:49:03 The_Tick the java bridge is deprecated

Aug 26 00:49:09 The_Tick they aren't going to improve it

Aug 26 00:49:21 The_Tick we're using it in adium

Aug 26 00:49:22 paveljanik The_Tick: Java bridge?

Aug 26 00:49:32 paveljanik The_Tick: can you pleas eintroduce yourself?

Aug 26 00:49:34 The_Tick my understanding is what you guys are porting is in java

Aug 26 00:49:36 The_Tick oh hi

Aug 26 00:49:41 paveljanik The_Tick: no.

Aug 26 00:49:45 The_Tick bah :)

Aug 26 00:49:52 The_Tick ignore that then, heh

Aug 26 00:50:11 ericb2 The_Tick: no Xlib, no Java, only carbon currently

Aug 26 00:50:22 The_Tick ah, then that might not be too bad

Aug 26 00:50:25 ericb2 The_Tick: just some parts are using Java

Aug 26 00:51:01 paveljanik we somewhat are going OT regarding our agenda for today.

Aug 26 00:51:01 plum paveljanik : :) grep -R

Aug 26 00:51:05 paveljanik well, tomorrow ;-)

Aug 26 00:51:29 The_Tick someone asked how to share code between them all paveljanik

Aug 26 00:51:30 paveljanik plum: ?

Aug 26 00:51:33 The_Tick I fail to see how that's offtopic

Aug 26 00:51:53 ChristianL a good hint indead, but we should look over the details later

Aug 26 00:51:56 The_Tick anyhow, I'll be quiet

Aug 26 00:52:54 ericb2 The_Tick: we have meeting every week, and we sure can add the point to the next agenda

Aug 26 00:53:09 The_Tick sounds so counterproductive :)

Aug 26 00:53:23 ChristianL ericb2: Solving a problem should not be a meeting point

Aug 26 00:53:38 ericb2 ChristianL: so let's solve it now

Aug 26 00:53:42 ChristianL to make this on topic, do we all agree that an installation should be mac like by having an app for each office application?

Aug 26 00:53:54 paveljanik but we can meet here and solve it together :-)

Aug 26 00:53:57 ericb2 ChristianL: this does not bother me

Aug 26 00:53:57 paveljanik yes.

Aug 26 00:54:02 ChristianL ericb2: no, I need at least 4 hours of sleep, so not solving all problems today. besides installing is prio 3 at least

Aug 26 00:54:14 The_Tick pkg will get you guys a lot of bad response, fyi

Aug 26 00:54:19 The_Tick we did that with growl :(

Aug 26 00:54:41 paveljanik yes, this is what I think so.

Aug 26 00:54:42 shaunmcdonald installation method is something that I wanted to bring up

Aug 26 00:54:58 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: what we do in adium works really well

Aug 26 00:55:38 shaunmcdonald there is a bit of a conflict, some issues say use pkg, others say disc image drag and drop

Aug 26 00:55:49 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: sorry I don't use adium

Aug 26 00:55:54 The_Tick no worries

Aug 26 00:55:57 The_Tick a dmg

Aug 26 00:56:02 The_Tick with a symlink to /applications

Aug 26 00:56:30 The_Tick it's not so good for say shareware applications, but for oss, it solves the problem of ease of install

Aug 26 00:56:30 plum paveljanik : i explore src and answer u in few minutes

Aug 26 00:56:31 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: same as EyeTV and an increasing number of other apps

Aug 26 00:56:35 ericb2 The_Tick: good

Aug 26 00:56:35 The_Tick yep

Aug 26 00:56:53 The_Tick oh, someone wanted me to intro myself

Aug 26 00:56:57 The_Tick <- Growl Project Lead

Aug 26 00:57:03 The_Tick and Adium Project Manager

Aug 26 00:57:09 ChristianL an office package is to a standard application what an oil tanker is to a fishing boat, just to remind everyone

Aug 26 00:57:15 plum The_Tick : :)

Aug 26 00:57:40 shaunmcdonald We will need to add symlink to /Applications to the dmg

Aug 26 00:57:42 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: we had a bunch of people send in "how do I install adium?!" emails

Aug 26 00:57:48 The_Tick and after that

Aug 26 00:57:52 The_Tick no more :)

Aug 26 00:58:13 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: along with changing dmg artwork to be sorta intuitive about it

Aug 26 00:58:23 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: does adium work on OS 10.3?

Aug 26 00:58:28 The_Tick ya

Aug 26 00:58:37 plum The_Tick: stop adium please

Aug 26 00:58:43 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: even the background of the dmg?

Aug 26 00:58:44 The_Tick the dmg will mount and you'll see what I'm talking about at least :)

Aug 26 00:58:48 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: yea

Aug 26 00:58:49 ericb2 The_Tick: even the symlink ?

Aug 26 00:58:53 The_Tick ericb2: ya

Aug 26 00:58:55 The_Tick sec

Aug 26 00:59:02 The_Tick you guys have svn clients?

Aug 26 00:59:03 ericb2 The_Tick: interesting

Aug 26 00:59:12 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: great you will be of some help then

Aug 26 00:59:14 paveljanik ericb2: back to the agenda, please...

Aug 26 00:59:46 shaunmcdonald at point 4?

Aug 26 00:59:53 paveljanik meetings longer than 1:30 are not effective.

Aug 26 01:00:03 ericb2 Roadmap now

Aug 26 01:00:11 * The_Tick (n=the_tick@growl/the-tick) has left #ooo_macport

Aug 26 01:00:33 ericb2 paveljanik: I'm glad to see new devs, maybe we can make exceptions for them ?

Aug 26 01:00:57 ericb2 paveljanik: they sure can bring new blood

Aug 26 01:00:59 shaunmcdonald ericb2: need to define "fix OpenOffice.org launch"

Aug 26 01:01:05 * paveljanik would like to see new devs, with signed JCA and many codelines waiting for commit ;-)

Aug 26 01:01:25 ericb2 paveljanik: adium is ab big project

Aug 26 01:01:29 plum ericb2 : yep it's me who ask on growl channel

Aug 26 01:01:38 plum ed

Aug 26 01:02:20 plum if someone was interrested in OoO mac port

Aug 26 01:02:29 ericb2 paveljanik: and I never saw anyone come with already signed JCA ;-)

Aug 26 01:02:52 ericb2 plum: I think you are in France, right ?

Aug 26 01:03:21 paveljanik ok, what else can we finish from our roadmap in next 5?

Aug 26 01:03:22 plum ericb2 : yep for know , i leave for CA in febuary

Aug 26 01:03:25 paveljanik ... seconds?

Aug 26 01:03:28 ChristianL (that adium x installer dmg with the symlink is cool, btw. but no reason not to copy it :)

Aug 26 01:03:55 spiral 'bye

Aug 26 01:03:55 * spiral (n=spiral@laf31-2-82-224-249-43.fbx.proxad.net) has left #ooo_macport ("Bye")

Aug 26 01:04:41 paveljanik ChristianL: I traced the non working KEYINPUT and KEYUP events to Application::HandleKey and mpKeyListeners beign NULL. If you can continue :-)

Aug 26 01:05:02 ericb2 plum: I think we should contiue to discuss tomorrow, or .. just contact me. What you propose is very interesting, and our meeting started really long time ago, sorry

Aug 26 01:05:31 ChristianL so what is open for the meeting to discuss? We can fix individual issues all week :)

Aug 26 01:05:39 ericb2 Next point is the Roadmap

Aug 26 01:06:04 plum paveljanik : instead this stupid droplet / it's difficult in IRC but i try

Aug 26 01:06:22 plum Resources/Core/help

Aug 26 01:06:37 plum Resources/Core/presets

Aug 26 01:06:59 plum Resources/Core/program

Aug 26 01:07:01 plum ...

Aug 26 01:07:14 plum CFBundleExecutable

Aug 26 01:07:18 ChristianL ericb2: The question is, do we want to have a roadmap entry before having a working native OOo install set for users?

Aug 26 01:07:34 plum CFBundleRef mainBundle;

Aug 26 01:07:42 plum mainBundle = CFBundleGetMainBundle();

Aug 26 01:07:43 ericb2 ChristianL: yes, allprojects have

Aug 26 01:07:54 plum so you get your Bundle structure

Aug 26 01:07:56 ChristianL ericb2: So which one is it?

Aug 26 01:08:09 ericb2 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings#Draft_for_Mac_OS_X_native_port_Roadmap_and_Todolist

Aug 26 01:08:20 paveljanik plum: we know how to do this in a project from scratch. But we have to do it in OOo as a whole.

Aug 26 01:08:22 ericb2 ChristianL: something very simple

Aug 26 01:08:26 plum you can exec in a safe thread

Aug 26 01:08:57 plum the main OoO prog in Resources/Core/program

Aug 26 01:09:15 paveljanik plum: and how do we exec it so it receives events?

Aug 26 01:09:28 plum yep

Aug 26 01:09:46 plum your carbon apploop

Aug 26 01:09:52 plum is aware

Aug 26 01:09:59 paveljanik How? Yes. /me needs some sleep.

Aug 26 01:10:02 plum if you don't fork

Aug 26 01:10:13 ChristianL plum, can you mail that to the mac porting list?

Aug 26 01:10:33 plum yep i think it will better

Aug 26 01:10:41 ericb2 plum: +1

Aug 26 01:10:45 ChristianL its 1am here and it is hard to follow two discussions

Aug 26 01:10:50 plum it's difficult to expain this line by line

Aug 26 01:11:29 ChristianL ericb2: +1 to your roadmap

Aug 26 01:11:35 ericb2 ChristianL: thank's :-)

Aug 26 01:12:02 ChristianL ericb2: You should ad the point "playing invader on OOoCon" ;-)

Aug 26 01:12:19 paveljanik localization will work out of the box and if not, I'll fix it.

Aug 26 01:12:25 shaunmcdonald ericb2: some things need to be defined more e.g. fix ooo launch

Aug 26 01:12:44 ericb2 ChristianL: I'll be very please if so !!

Aug 26 01:12:49 ericb2 pleased

Aug 26 01:13:08 ChristianL is "fix ooo launch" the problem that we don't have a working install set for the native port?

Aug 26 01:13:19 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: exact. I search a better word. Do you have an idea ?

Aug 26 01:13:30 ericb2 ChristianL: exactly

Aug 26 01:14:02 shaunmcdonald ericb2: say more about it

Aug 26 01:14:09 ChristianL then that is exactly two parts. First find out how to do an ooo package. I think plum and also the tick gave great input. Second part is to implement it in scp2

Aug 26 01:14:38 plum just for a concept bundle/ carbon / runner

Aug 26 01:14:43 ChristianL shaunmcdonald: I think the short explanation is "having somthing the user can install to have a native OOo"

Aug 26 01:14:53 shaunmcdonald ericb2: it can be nice to have a few words for the main point, but you then need to be able to know exactly what is meant by it

Aug 26 01:15:28 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: not too much, it must stay "generic"

Aug 26 01:15:30 plum i 've made a little launcher for wxpython/carbon

Aug 26 01:15:33 paveljanik in the meantime, we can have shell script to be run on the installed directory from .dmg in Applications and prepare to the state "working" ;-)

Aug 26 01:15:49 plum but it's the same logic

Aug 26 01:15:59 shaunmcdonald ericb2: this can then lead to an implementation spec

Aug 26 01:15:59 plum http://plumber.gnu-darwin.org/shared.php?_w2pb=pub/projects/PyApplicationStub-1

Aug 26 01:16:07 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: no please :-/

Aug 26 01:16:39 paveljanik this is why I think in the first step, we should make OOo look the same as current X11, maybe with Application link instead of icon...

Aug 26 01:16:52 plum to try and understand an app model

Aug 26 01:16:56 plum http://plumber.gnu-darwin.org/pub/projects/Archimade.zip

Aug 26 01:17:07 ChristianL paveljanik: that application link stuff the_tick told us does not solve our problem with multiple applications

Aug 26 01:17:17 ChristianL also not solving the problem that soffice.bin is not getting events

Aug 26 01:17:44 plum ChristianL : /Library/OpenOffice/Core

Aug 26 01:17:45 shaunmcdonald ericb2: maybe I'm trying to be too strong on the documentation

Aug 26 01:17:48 ChristianL but I think this is all solveable, but not today

Aug 26 01:18:02 paveljanik ChristianL: yes, so lets first use our current approach, make it working and then we can investigate how to make it better.

Aug 26 01:18:04 paveljanik yep

Aug 26 01:18:13 ChristianL shaunmcdonald: No, if we figured out how an OOo must be packed for installation, it is a good think to write a specification

Aug 26 01:18:13 paveljanik maybe today afternoon ;-)

Aug 26 01:19:06 ericb2 for the Roadmap no comments ?

Aug 26 01:19:40 ChristianL 2 for it, 6 neutral I guess

Aug 26 01:20:26 ericb2 ok, I consider none objects

Aug 26 01:20:37 ericb2 this will be our official Roadmap

Aug 26 01:20:50 ChristianL to sum the roadmap up, we like to present current state at OOoCon, have an alpha version in jannuary/february and then going for debug and more native features?

Aug 26 01:20:51 shaunmcdonald ericb2: include it in static site?

Aug 26 01:21:14 paveljanik ChristianL: +1 for this shortened version ;-)

Aug 26 01:21:53 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes, please. and asa we find a better word replacing "launch" we will do the change

Aug 26 01:21:54 shaunmcdonald last static road map was Jan 2005

Aug 26 01:22:12 shaunmcdonald it is easy to change

Aug 26 01:22:16 paveljanik we should set it to stone, go to sleep and work to make it happen later today ;-)

Aug 26 01:22:55 obr paveljanik: good plan

Aug 26 01:23:01 ericb2 And next points ?

Aug 26 01:23:08 ericb2 Point 5: X11 version

Aug 26 01:23:08 ericb2 Point 6: our tinderbox status/usage

Aug 26 01:23:10 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: +1, if needed, we can change/update it later

Aug 26 01:23:30 ericb2 Other points are postponed to next meeting

Aug 26 01:23:38 shaunmcdonald localisation of X11 no install?

Aug 26 01:24:02 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: we do not need it because we do not have localized fondu anyway...

Aug 26 01:24:02 maho +1 for postpone

Aug 26 01:24:06 paveljanik english is enough.

Aug 26 01:24:06 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: it depends on when we stop to assume 10.3 compatibility

Aug 26 01:24:11 paveljanik :-(((((((

Aug 26 01:24:34 shaunmcdonald ericb2: can you send me the code to check with 10.3, since I have 10.3 now

Aug 26 01:24:42 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes

Aug 26 01:24:49 paveljanik do we have a short sample showing the problem under 10.3 and working under 10.4?

Aug 26 01:24:49 shaunmcdonald ericb2: thanks

Aug 26 01:25:08 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: please verify everything works with 10.3 and 10.4 (Intel and PowerPC)

Aug 26 01:25:16 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: that's what I was looking for,

Aug 26 01:25:20 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: tomorrow morning

Aug 26 01:25:31 shaunmcdonald ericb2: will do may take a few days

Aug 26 01:25:42 ericb2 paveljanik: I got everything in a backup

Aug 26 01:25:46 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: Yes! We need AppleScript developer :-)

Aug 26 01:26:09 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: I'm not that great, will try to learn though

Aug 26 01:26:30 plum ericb2 : the rule : keep compatibility for 2 release, i think you can lose the compatibility when 10.5 will be released

Aug 26 01:26:57 ericb2 plum: I verified : OopenOffice.org already works on Leopard preview

Aug 26 01:27:16 shaunmcdonald ericb2: got verification from someone else too

Aug 26 01:27:20 ChristianL so for a native release, our baseline can be 10.4? cool

Aug 26 01:27:32 ericb2 ChristianL: yes

Aug 26 01:27:40 ericb2 ChristianL: and maybe provide UB

Aug 26 01:27:51 maho ericb2 : really?

Aug 26 01:27:59 plum ericb2 yep but it's a preview not an official released , it's just to respect your users :)

Aug 26 01:28:12 ChristianL I think UB is a must, but maybe only when we are in beta state

Aug 26 01:28:22 shaunmcdonald there was some work on UB before and it was working

Aug 26 01:28:39 shaunmcdonald can't remember which version though or who was working on it

Aug 26 01:30:01 ericb2 maho: only one isue is remaining : cross compile the bridge if I'm not wrong

Aug 26 01:30:18 ericb2 ChristianL: I mant for X11 version

Aug 26 01:30:20 maho AFAIK: yes

Aug 26 01:30:21 ericb2 meant

Aug 26 01:30:55 * paveljanik has at least 13 patches to get universal binaries and is still not finished :-(

Aug 26 01:31:13 ChristianL on a second thouhgt, would people not prefer to download a shorter install set for theire plattform?

Aug 26 01:31:36 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: is there a cws/issue for it?

Aug 26 01:31:52 ericb2 plum: I meant a stable version as UB, not an alpha, nor even beta

Aug 26 01:32:36 paveljanik ChristianL: this is not for log: I think UB was invented because the computer literacy of Mac users is a bit below our acceptable computer literacy level... Mac is Mac. Do not care what is inside. Really.

Aug 26 01:32:42 shaunmcdonald ChristianL: I would prefer one download for both my PPC and Intel machine, rather than 2

Aug 26 01:33:14 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: not yet. There is one for configure stuff, yes.

Aug 26 01:33:33 plum shaunmcdonald : magic lipo :)

Aug 26 01:34:00 ericb2 paveljanik: distributed build ? marry Intel and PowerPC ? :-)

Aug 26 01:34:00 paveljanik plum: you come from the world of simple apps with simple release process ;-)

Aug 26 01:35:05 paveljanik sory guys, but 02:30 is my record time to be in OOo related meetings. My business record is 17:45 though... See you tomorrow.

Aug 26 01:35:15 ericb2 As last point, I think we should provide agenda more sooner in the week

Aug 26 01:35:31 ericb2 I'll post on mac@porting list for that

Aug 26 01:35:33 shaunmcdonald ericb2: agree

Aug 26 01:35:35 maho see you pjanik

Aug 26 01:35:48 maho +1 ericb2

Aug 26 01:36:00 ericb2 ok, time to sleep here too

Aug 26 01:36:22 obr +1

Aug 26 01:36:23 ChristianL me too

Aug 26 01:36:38 * obr has quit ()

Aug 26 01:36:39 ericb2 good night all

Aug 26 01:36:45 plum paveljanik : yep i know it's a big work, and porting to mac/carbon it's not easy , for many reasons , i know the problem

Aug 26 01:36:49 shaunmcdonald me too, and it's only 0:36

Aug 26 01:37:08 ericb2 maho: what time is it for you ?

Aug 26 01:37:16 maho 8:37 am, NP

Aug 26 01:37:22 ericb2 1:37 in France

Aug 26 01:37:22 plum ericb2 : ++

Aug 26 01:37:33 ericb2 plum: salut , et merci !

Aug 26 01:37:52 plum GMT only 23:37 :)

Aug 26 01:37:59 ChristianL btw, that adium had a nice picture in its crash reporter dialog. a parot going down in flames, maybe we can have something like that with a seagull :)

Aug 26 01:37:59 plum yep salut

Aug 26 01:38:07 shaunmcdonald BST just now

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Aug 26 01:48:54 plum ++

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