L10n IRC Meeting 20-10-2007
sophi: Thalion72: southerncross: hi :)
southerncross: hi Thalion72
Thalion72: Hi sophi
southerncross: Hi sophi
sophi: IcoBgr: hi
Thalion72: sophi: do we have an agenda?
sophi: Thalion72: mostly we will talk about infrastructure I think
sophi: Thalion72: but if we have thime, I would like to have also opinions on the SCA
Thalion72: SCA? The"new JCA"?
sophi: just a small joke, I received the invitation from Sun as .doc ;-)
sophi: Thalion72: yes, I think this will be discuss also by the advisory board
Thalion72: ok .. do you have a link? (need to read it)
Thalion72: ahmmmm ... this goes beyond anithing we actually have with the JCA (just reading pt. 1)
Thalion72: so - simply No from my side
sophi: Thalion72: same for me...
Thalion72: at the moment we have at least a vague definition of "OOo source contribution"
Thalion72: but the SCA would even apply to wiki texts or maybe even to my extensions
sophi: Thalion72: yes, this is how I understand it and why we should discuss about it, even the code snippet is falling in it...
Thalion72: I simply cannot sign such a thing, as this would prevent to submit documentation that I did not completely wrote by myself
Thalion72: and this would again raise the question, who needs to sign this SCA (e.g. translators?)
sophi: Thalion72: yes, for me it prevents simply to contribute to the project :-(
Thalion72: hmm? why that? As your employer would need to sign it?
sophi: Thalion72: by adding again a barrier, SCA is English only, is it applyable out of US, etc...
Thalion72: ahh .. French law ist different ...
sophi: Thalion72: authors of documentation don't care about that, translators also
sophi: Thalion72: and if for writing 10 words on the wiki, you need to sign the SCA, this make things very difficult...
Thalion72: and it is nonsense (because we would need to restrict wiki contributions to those who signed the SCA)
sophi: Thalion72: yes
Thalion72: btw .. other question: I've seen you are in charge for french translation of the extension website? Is it already possible to translate the site?
sophi: Thalion72: no, I don't think, drupal resources are lacking
sophi: Thalion72: the extension site has been set up without thinking of localization :-(
Thalion72: I just played arount with the site and submitted two extensions ... it's quite fun to use the site. So I'd like to contribute
sophi: Thalion72: yes, I agree, but currently I see several issues, for example you can be redirected to any site, even if you don't know the content, I find it really dangerous
shaunmcdonald: so the meeting has started?
sophi: shaunmcdonald: not sure ;-) this is more an informal discussion with Andre
shaunmcdonald: sophi: ok
southerncross: hey shaunmcdonald
shaunmcdonald: sowasn't there meant to be some meeting here about the ooo website at some point?
sophi: shaunmcdonald: yes, about the infrastructure and tools
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: yes .. in about 12minutes
shaunmcdonald: thinks that is why he joined the channel
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: thanks
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: btw. do you know, who is hosting the buildbot server?
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: I think it is OSL
shaunmcdonald: open source lab
shaunmcdonald: the same folk who do the bouncer
Thalion72: ah .. thanks
# Benutzer Rafaella ist dem Kanal #ooonlc beigetreten
Rafaella: hi everybody!
shaunmcdonald: Hi Rafaella
shaunmcdonald: the meeting hasn't started yet
southerncross: hi Rafaella
Thalion72: Hi Rafaella
Rafaella: ok, perfect!
sophi: Rafaella: hi :)
shaunmcdonald: southerncross: hi Charles, just as well there is /whois ;-)
sophi: may be we can start now ?
Thalion72: I think so - yes
sophi: so we are here to speak about the site infrastructure
sophi: have you seen the pages http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Infrastructure_Requirements
sophi: and the one Andre has open too : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Infrastructure_Overview#List_of_Services
sophi: would you give your opinion on the infrastructure requierements ? what is needed for the nlc and the l10n project ?
Rafaella: I have't look it at Andre's page but I've just opened it
Thalion72: well it is not "my" page ;-) I just added a list of extra services we use for the OOo project
sophi: Thalion72: this is your effort and we recognize it as is :)
Rafaella: sophi, and all, I will be most probably attending the meeting in Hamburg as well and it would be great to know what in particular I should represent and *fight for*
Thalion72: this is because one thing is unclear to me atm: should we speak about enhancements (or bufixes) for our current website or rather about the infrastructure the we need in general
Rafaella: BTW: is there anyone from you attending the meeting in Hamburg?
Thalion72: no :-(
sophi: Thalion72: for me both, if there is a redesign, we should know what we want about but fixes and enhancements
shaunmcdonald: how far can we go in changes in the infrastructure?
shaunmcdonald: doubts that we can use the throw it away and start from scratch approach
sophi: shaunmcdonald: currently this is a list of requierements,
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: I agree .. we cannot start from scratch (or at least this would be very hard)
sophi: but in those requierements, what we have asked for years is still not in the priorities
Thalion72: not in the priorities of our current infrastructure probvider
sophi: Thalion72: yes :)
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: when I say from scratch, I mean are we able to change from the collab net providing the infrastructure?
shaunmcdonald: what is [svk/distributed later?] ?
shaunmcdonald: on http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Infrastructure_Requirements under version control
sophi: shaunmcdonald: I don't know
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: there is still the idea to seperate developer sit from user site ... maybe we can have another provider for user site?
sophi: shaunmcdonald: this is a versionning tool
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: that could work
sophi: shaunmcdonald: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SVK
shaunmcdonald: sophi: thanks for the link
shaunmcdonald: seems to be a variation on Git
Thalion72: sophie / Rafaella: what I'd like to give more priority is that project leads need more control about their project's infrastructure
Thalion72: the optionsin CEE are very limited
Rafaella: Thalion72, good point
sophi: Thalion72: you mean about mailing list, forum, documentation handling ?
Thalion72: sophi: correct
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: yep, dynamic content is proably the biggest problem just now
Thalion72: e.g. Attachment stripping, Mail footers ...
shaunmcdonald: mailing list can be a problem too
sophi: Thalion72: and a possibility to localize them ?
Thalion72: yes - dynamic content (easy per-project-defaults) is another problem
shaunmcdonald: mailman seems to have far too many options
Rafaella: Thalion72, would this be a rquirement to be listed under the framework topic?
Thalion72: sophi: well .. If I can add my own header or greetings mail, I can easily localize it ;-)
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: yep, things like the home page are slow, due to it having to send the left nav bar which is hidden anyway
Thalion72: Rafaella: yes .. would say so
sophi: Thalion72: I was thinking of the message of moderation
sophi: Rafaella: yes I think so too
shaunmcdonald: sophi: having it in English and the language that posters normally would use for the particular list would help to improve participation, especially when someone posts, and they have no knowledge of English
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: we are facing this problem day-by-day on our native lang lists
sophi: yes, and this add a lot of extra work
Thalion72: sophi: I'd like to have some service level agreement for bugfixes in our infrastructure
sophi: Thalion72: I don't understand, could you explain what you mean ?
Thalion72: so that bugs get fixed between infrastructure releases
Rafaella: Thalion72, can you be more specific
Thalion72: hmm .. seem kopete removed my "dreaming" tags
sophi: Thalion72: ah, yes, not staying 5 years in the bug tracker ;-) I undersant now
shaunmcdonald: mailman allows you customise the text easily on a mailing list by mailing list basis
shaunmcdonald: which is a lot better than the current system
Thalion72: but as corporate customer I would have a contract that allows me to reduce payments, if the provider does not meet some service targets (e.g. no P2 bg stays more than a week open ..P3 notmore than a month ...)
sophi: Thalion72: but we don't have any roadmap from CollabNet
Thalion72: sophi: that's why I wonder if we speak about dropping CollabNet
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: then we have arguments about what Pn bugs should be
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: at least I'm not the only one thinking that
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: note that louis is now employed by sun, rather than collabnet ;-)
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: well .. there are metrics for that - and every major service provider should know such metrics
Thalion72: but the problem is, that only a company can have a contract with the provider and not we as a community.
Thalion72: sophi: I think, this needs to be a point in Boston
sophi: Rafaella: is there an agenda for the meeting in Hamburg ?
sophi: Thalion72: yes, I think so too
Rafaella: sophi, I have't seen it yet but there will definitively be one
shaunmcdonald: which meetings are there?
sophi: Rafaella: thanks
shaunmcdonald: there seems to be one in Boston and one in Hamburg
sophi: shaunmcdonald: the one in Boston is with the Advisory Board
Rafaella: shaunmcdonald, the enginnering Steering Comittee will meet in Hamburg
sophi: shaunmcdonald: the one is Hamburg is with the ESC and some guests
shaunmcdonald: what is the difference in what will be discussed at the two meetings?
Rafaella: and the main topic is the Infrastructure requirements
sophi: shaunmcdonald: look at my mail about this irc meeting, it contains all the links
shaunmcdonald: sophi: when did you send it?
shaunmcdonald: is lost in too much mail :-(
Rafaella: I think that the Advisory board will be the higher decision instance
Thalion72: hopefully not
sophi: shaunmcdonald: on the 15/10
sophi: shaunmcdonald: on dev@website, l10n and nlc
Thalion72: Rafaella: if the Advisory Board is the higher decision instance, we will obviously end with the community being dictated by companies .. and I don'tlike this to happen
sophi: Rafaella: AD is about Community governance, Contribution agreement, New tools and more open selection of tools
sophi: shaunmcdonald: http://blogs.sun.com/jpblog/entry/openoffice_org_moves_forward
sophi: shaunmcdonald: http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1269
sophi: shaunmcdonald: http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1277
southerncross: I think that we may want to see (and to express it to the AB) the Board as a starting point, not as a higher instance for OOo
Rafaella: Thalion72, sophi, sorry I thought that that would be the instance to decide if to keep or drop the current infrastructure provider....
Thalion72: Rafaella: welll .. this would be the instance that would make it possible at all ;-)
sophi: Thalion72: +1 :)
shaunmcdonald: sophi: thanks for the mail links
Thalion72: but I think, we need an agreement on that - and if there is a reasonable way to replace the current provider I'd (likely) vote +1
sophi: Thalion72: yes for a reasonable way +1
sophi: Thalion72: else, a service level agreement as you said
Thalion72: sophi: is there something left we need to add to the requirements list?
shaunmcdonald: this is an important move, as there have only been minor improvements to the infrastructure
sophi: Thalion72: I don't see anything left, but may be others ?
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: there even are regressions .. eg. it is almost impossible to browse mailing list archives since last CEE upgrade
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: that is another issue
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: there is meant to be the staging server
shaunmcdonald: and staging mailing list too
shaunmcdonald: however they were only used once for some largish upgrade
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: ah - I misinterpreted your comment
Thalion72: sophi: so maybe some more words aoubt the SCA?
sophi: yes, I give the link also
Rafaella: sophi, what about the l10n translation infrastructure?
sophi: Rafaella: you mean about Puttle ?
Rafaella: yes, Pootle and anything elsee that we might need
Rafaella: Pootle, a server to maintain and share Translation memories, glossaries, etc...
sophi: Rafaella: yes, having TCM and Pootle and the extension translation process, all in the same place
sophi: Rafaella: could we make a list on the wiki about all this needs ? linked the requierements page
Thalion72: Rafaella: this would mean to move translation memory and glossary to some place outside Sun (outside the current sunvirtual lab?)
Rafaella: sophi, right the Extension translation process as well as the Documentation translation process...
Thalion72: Rafaella: can you put this to the requirements list (additional point l10n infrastructure)?
Rafaella: Thalion72, well, the current situation is that the Native language teams host the Translation Memories themselves like the ones they generate with OmegaT or other tools
sophi: Rafaella: ok, I'll try to come with a list
Rafaella: and myself providing the latest tmx translated out of the database...
Thalion72: not for all languages ;-)
Rafaella: I am thinking of having an infrastructure that allows us to have enough space to store these files
Thalion72: this would mean simple file storage?
Rafaella: easy check in and check out of tmx files something similar to Pootle...
Rafaella: storage + some management tool but the requirement is really a question of storage
sophi: Rafaella: and the KeyID buids too ?
Rafaella: all we need for the translation work and we need to have enough storage...
Rafaella: for 100 languages....
sophi: Rafaella: do you have an idea of the storage we need (numbers) ?
Rafaella: sophi, no, but I can find out and let oyu know
sophi: Rafaella: yes please
Rafaella: sophi, I'll do
sophi: Rafaella: I'll try to put the list on the wiki tomorrow
sophi: Rafaella: thanks :)
southerncross: gotta go
sophi: southerncross: bye
southerncross: and thanks for setting this up
# southerncross hat den Chat verlassen (Beenden: "" ).
sophi: so may we speak about sca now ?
Rafaella: yes, sure
sophi: Rafaella: thanks :)
sophi: my concern is about every thing else than source code
Thalion72: could any community contributor give coments? ain, IcoBgr, khirano, shaunmcdonald?
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: I think that the sca is just going to cause the same contribution problems as the jca
Thalion72: my concern is, that the sca may be easily applied to "each and everything"
Rafaella: shaunmcdonald, which problems? Can you be more specific?
shaunmcdonald: thinks we should just have ooo like any other open source project to aid participation
shaunmcdonald: Rafaella: people not wanting to contribute because they has to sign some copyright agreement
Rafaella: well, opensolaris uses SCA...
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: this is definately a misunderstaning .. many open source projects have such an agreement .. no matter what several people say .. it is simply a fact
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: oh, do they?
sophi: shaunmcdonald: apache, mozilla has one for example
shaunmcdonald: obviously doesn't have much experience then
Thalion72: Mozilla has, Apache has, PHP has, many FSF projects have ...
shaunmcdonald: links please
Thalion72: MySQL has ..
shaunmcdonald: openstreetmap doesn't have
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: *sigh* I need to dig first .. and provide the list
shaunmcdonald: it is really easy to get the code in
sophi: the problem is more on what it covers
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: I didnot say that every project has one
shaunmcdonald: I know
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: btw. if it is easy to contribute code, it is also easy to contribute illegal code
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: ah, but it is difficult to get svn access
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: you need a proven record to get that
shaunmcdonald: all patches get review, then added before you get svn access
Thalion72: so: you have a barrier anyway and cannot simply provide your code, right?
sophi: shaunmcdonald: imho developers are not lawyers...
Thalion72: I agree, that JCA is another barrier .. but imho it is usefull (to some extend)
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: but the barrier is a lot lower than with ooo
Rafaella: So I think that there are 2 questions here:
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: I really don't think, that JCA is *the* barrier in OOo .. there are other problems
shaunmcdonald: sophi: which is why I try to avoid licencing discussion
Rafaella: one is if there should be a contributor agreement that needs to be signed
shaunmcdonald: the complex cws system
Rafaella: and the other is which is the most indicated Contributor agreement.... or I am misunderstanding the issue here?
Thalion72: Rafaella: I think, you are right .. but I'd like to add a thirdpoint
Thalion72: what Contributions should the Contributor agreement cover?
Thalion72: the JCA actually covers code contributions - the SCA covers much more
sophi: Thalion72: this is said in the agreement, this why SCA is not adapted for my point of view
shaunmcdonald: which will increase the barrier for people contributing documentation etc
sophi: shaunmcdonald: yes
Rafaella: shaunmcdonald, I don't think that this is a barrier
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: making it almost impossible to write some ideas in the wiki (e.g.)
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: without having signed the agreement
Thalion72: Rafaella: it definately is, as you cannot submit any single sentence under SCA, that you have not written on your own
Rafaella: Thalion72, but what if we simply create a mechnism that the contributors need to check ones they request an account?
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: even if I signed the the agreement, I could not add a screenshot of "competing applications" to a specification
sophi: Rafaella: they won't sign if they write 10 words on the wiki, or proof read a documentation
Thalion72: Rafaella: I even could not us a free icon in a Documentation I submit under sca
shaunmcdonald: Thalion72: that isn't a good thing for the ux project
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: yes .. but would be the implication of SCA
Rafaella: yes, but if you want to write on a wiki you need to register right?
Thalion72: Rafaella: yes .. but that's not the point
sophi: Rafaella: yes, but it's different than engaging yourself in an English text
Thalion72: the point is - if I like to attach a screenshot of MS Office, I cannot do so.
Rafaella: so I don't understand .... what is the point?
Thalion72: Rafaella: it's a legal point. SCA covers documentation, specification and much more
Rafaella: why not? I am suggesting to provide any user who register to the ooowiki or to the ooo project the option to simply click the agreement online....
sophi: Rafaella: most of our contributors don't want to have to sign this, more it's English only and do not apply in some countries
Thalion72: Rafaella: if the user signs the SCA and her contributions are made to the condidtons of the SCA - she needs to have full copyright to her contributions
Thalion72: Rafaella: but e.g. Microsoft claims copyright for Screenshots of MS-Office
Thalion72: so I cannot contribute any such Screenshot, as I have no full copyright (atleast not the right to share copyright with sun)
Thalion72: but I have the right to "use" the screenshot
Thalion72: that's why we have no problem at the moment (without SCA)
Rafaella: so let's ask the other way: which are the disadvantages of NOT having to sign a contributor agreement?
Thalion72: Sun is not able to legally protect the project
Rafaella: is this a disadvantage for the Community as well?
Thalion72: yes .. although not known to many community members
Thalion72: let's say some company tries to sue a single OOo contributor - this would be possible
Rafaella: this disadvantage seems to me quite important to consider....
Thalion72: at the moment (having the JCA in place) Sun could step in and protect this contributor
sophi: Thalion72: but not for documentation or wiki contributions
Thalion72: sophi: yes speaking of code contributions only here
sophi: and not for extensions and localisation
Thalion72: But imho, there is a big difference between code nd documentation: the risk of being sued is much higher for code (as this is what is business relevant to our largest competitor)
sophi: Thalion72: yes I agree with you and this is why I don't see the risk for a wiki contributor or documentation author
sophi: the PDL have been written for that
Rafaella: Thalion72, yes, but if the risk can be limited and we may better protect the contributors with another agreement....
Thalion72: sophi: wel .. there is risk, but this is (imho) a small one
sophi: Thalion72: and imho less important than loosing our contributors
Thalion72: ok .. next disantvantage of havin no JCA:
Thalion72: you almost cannot change the license
Thalion72: with JCA in place we cann easily upgrate to LGPL 3 .. without we can only switch to GPL (legally somwhat unclear to what version)
Thalion72: this applies to documentation and PDL as well .. but with one difference: we are the people who released and can change the PDL ;-)
sophi: Thalion72: yes :)
Thalion72: so - no real need to have a contributor Agreement for documentation for that reason
sophi: so, I think this need a large discussion with the OOo contributors
sophi: but may be we must first set some page explaining the what the contributor agreement is needed for
Thalion72: hmm .. yes :-(
sophi: Thalion72: we are only two or three discussing about it here :)
Rafaella: yes, I think that it would be very good to start summarizing the pro and contra of having a JCA or SCA or any at all...
Thalion72: and we have almost the same ideas ;-
sophi: Thalion72: yes :)
Thalion72: Rafaella: at the moment I can nly say that *I* see the need for a (code) Contributor Agreement -but SCA goes beyond that
Thalion72: I just started to collect some other Agreements
sophi: Thalion72: the CA have been changed to JCA because we wanted it ;-)
Rafaella: Thalion72, very good!
Thalion72: sophi: I'll start a wiki page on that topic ... ok?
sophi: Thalion72: yes, thanks
Rafaella: once we gather more inforamtion on this, how are we going to proceed?
Rafaella: is this something we need to officially present to the CC?
sophi: Rafaella: may be first speak about it on the nlc list
Thalion72: Rafaella: yes
Rafaella: so next step is discussion on nlc , amy be another irc meeting and then CC?
sophi: Rafaella: yes, I think so
Rafaella: sounds like a good plan :)
Thalion72: Rafaella / sophi: but should be discussed by ESC as well
# Benutzer MechtiIde ist dem Kanal #ooonlc beigetreten
sophi: Thalion72: yes, I was asking me if any of redhat, novell, ibm, redflag have contributors out of code contribution ?
Rafaella: So once there is an agenda for the Meeting in Hamburg we need to make sure that this is part of the agenda topics...
Rafaella: redflag definitively: they translated Chinese simplified....
sophi: Rafaella: ok, thanks
Rafaella: the other simply take what we translate ;-)
sophi: Rafaella: :)
sophi: Rafaella: Martin didn't speak about that for the Hamburg meeting, but yes, I think this should be part of the agenda
Thalion72: sophi: this is btw.one good reason for *not* using SCA ... all the people outside Sun would deny to write documentation due to copyright issues ;-)
Thalion72: and I'd guess most of them would be happy to do so
sophi: Thalion72: yes :)
Rafaella: Thalion72, sophi you mean ibm, novell and other would not write documentation under SCA?
Thalion72: Rafaella: I rather mean, many of them do hardly write documentation (or specification) .. and would use the SCA as excuse for that ;-)
Rafaella: ah .... ok .... I really thought I was missing something :)
# Benutzer SimonAW ist dem Kanal #ooonlc beigetreten
sophi: so do you have any other point to discuss ?
Thalion72: Not tat the moment
Rafaella: not really .....
Thalion72: btw. I started at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Why_JCA
sophi: to summarize, I'll write a page on l10n needs, Andre on the Agreements and will further discuss this
sophi: Thalion72: ah, you're so fast :)
Thalion72: but thereis nothing in yet
Rafaella: yes, and I'll find out about the storage for l10n infrastructure and make sure CA is on the ESC agenda
sophi: Rafaella: Thalion72: thanks
Thalion72: sophi: do you know a project, FSF uses a Committer Agreement?
sophi: Thalion72: no
SimonAW: Good Evening, Lady and Gentleman.
SimonAW: How is everybody doing?
sophi: SimonAW: hi :)
Thalion72: shaunmcdonald: find some links at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Why_JCA#list_of_similar_agreements ;-)
SimonAW: What is a SCA?
Thalion72: moment .. I'll add the link
SimonAW: That's what I'm missing as a question in the ToC. ;-)
khirano: SimonAW: Thalion72 will add http://opensolaris.org/os/about/sun_contributor_agreement/ :)
Thalion72: link added
SimonAW: Thank you khirano
khirano: Thalion72: Is OpenSolaris the only opensource project which accepts SCA? do you have an idea?
Thalion72: hmm .. netbeans?
# Rafaella hat den Chat verlassen (Beenden: "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" ).
Thalion72: yes.. netbeans uses SCA (and has a page that describes the differences to JCA)
sophi: Thalion72: I'll add the l10n infrastructure needs as a new point of the infrastructure requierements page
khirano: Thalion72: Yes. But they say, "CA" http://www.netbeans.org/about/legal/ca.html ,they mean SCA with CA?
Thalion72: khirano: yes .. see right at the bottem "To complete the CA go to http://www.sun.com/software/opensource/sca.pdf. "
khirano: Thalion72: You are right. Thanks.
# SimonAW hat den Chat verlassen (Beenden: "Remote closed the connection" ).
Thalion72: hmm .. strange .. I see the info, that it is requested to sign "copyright papers" to contribute to gcc .. but I cannot find those papers
sophi: Thalion72: in the FAQ you find "including the OpenJDK Project, the phoneME Project, Project GlassFish, OpenSolaris,"
sophi: Thalion72: it seems you need to ask for them http://gcc.gnu.org/contribute.html
Thalion72: found it ... http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/gnulib/doc/Copyright/assign.manual?root=gnulib&view=markup
Thalion72: (hmm .. that's for Manuals)
Thalion72: did nybody ever say, that the OOo site is confusing?
# Benutzer andreasma ist dem Kanal #ooonlc beigetreten
Thalion72: sophi: seems you are right .. you need to ask for the assignemnt form, if you like to contribute code