Extensions/website/Minutes/2009-01/2009-01-29-IRCLogs

(10:02:52) mdamboldt: Hi!
(10:03:09) mdamboldt: Sorry for beeing late. I was sitting around at ext-ooo :)
(10:03:32) mdamboldt: Did you already start?
(10:03:46) stx12: no, it was a bit boring there? ;-)
(10:03:57) CyHawk [n=darabos_@catv-86-101-217-6.catv.broadband.hu] hat den Raum betreten.
(10:04:12) CyHawk: good morning
(10:04:25) mdamboldt: Ok, so lets start to talk about the action items from the very old agenda from 2008-09
(10:04:45) mdamboldt: First open AI on the list for lgodarad:
(10:04:45) mdamboldt:  2008_04_10_2:  What process to translate an extension itself
(10:05:34) bettina-h: Hi
(10:05:36) mdamboldt: lgodard: ping
(10:06:08) lgodard: mdamboldt: hi
(10:06:54) lgodard: hum, no news. i had to manage a big change in my professional range. so i didn't work on this sorry$
(10:08:18) mdamboldt: Ok.
(10:08:31) CyHawk: a web interface could work on the java property files in the oxts
(10:09:47) CyHawk: i mean the users/contributors could suggest translations and the publisher of the extension could then take or leave them
(10:10:39) mdamboldt: CyHawk: Sounds like an interesting idea. Do you have more concrete plans? I mean do you plan to create such an interface?
(10:10:56) CyHawk: but perhaps we should not create a custom interface for this and instead use one from another project
(10:11:33) CyHawk: launchpad has a web based translation with the added benefit that if a term has appeared in another launchpad project, the translation used there will be shown as a recommendation
(10:12:03) CyHawk: maybe integrating this service in some form would be simpler than brewing our own
(10:13:16) CyHawk: (i have not used the launchpad translation service myself)
(10:15:20) CyHawk: (but i have now IMed a friend who has, maybe he will join and tell us about it)
(10:15:47) KAMI_Work [n=szalaik@helpdesk.navigatorrt.hu] hat den Raum betreten.
(10:15:56) mdamboldt: Ok. Next AI is owned by SunNF/JSC.
(10:15:56) mdamboldt: 2008_04_24: Give an overview of how to do this decoupling of translation cycles and release and find out the opinion of other stakeholders, such as release management and the l10n team
(10:16:00) CyHawk: (there he is :))
(10:16:29) mdamboldt: I remember there was an email on the ext.website mailing list where Nils pointed to a Wiki page where a Draft was written down.
(10:16:40) mdamboldt: That was: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions_releasing
(10:17:17) mdamboldt: Seems there was not much progress. I will clarify this offline after the meeting with involved people to get a more detailed update for next meeting.
(10:17:25) KAMI_Work: hi
(10:17:28) mdamboldt: Hi
(10:17:48) mdamboldt: Last of the old AI's on the list is:
(10:17:50) mdamboldt:  2008-07-31: Propose workflow for localization of dynamic extension specific content (e.g. descriptions)
(10:17:59) mdamboldt: Owner is TBO.
(10:18:03) mdamboldt: Any update?
(10:18:10) VA [n=volker_a@192.18.8.1] hat den Raum betreten.
(10:18:25) b_osi: oh, thats mine ....no update, there wasn't enough time, to get something done on this :-(
(10:23:52) ***mdamboldt grrr I don't like this IRC client.....
(10:24:03) CyHawk: the server seems pretty strict about flooding :)
(10:24:09) CyHawk: was it the client?
(10:24:13) KAMI_Work: CyHawk: Well, I am working on Ubuntu translation and others
(10:24:34) KAMI_Work: Some of the uses pootle hence they are using po based mechanism
(10:24:36) b_osi: It was because the template site took all my time - will have a look, when this is finished.
(10:24:37) CyHawk: you think the process used on launchpad could somehow apply here?
(10:25:09) KAMI_Work: CyHawk: there is a way to set up translation templates for packages
(10:25:26) KAMI_Work: the you can export stings to these temploates
(10:25:46) KAMI_Work: then you can translate it via Web interface or you can download po file
(10:25:55) KAMI_Work: the import the translated files
(10:26:00) CyHawk: b_osi: the template site looks great! are the numerous template packs going to be migrated there from the extension site or is this not planned?
(10:26:46) KAMI_Work: Yes the template site is very good
(10:27:02) KAMI_Work: I contributed the main string trabnslation for Hungarian language :P
(10:27:33) KAMI_Work: Also íes it is a good idea to make available templates extensions as a single downloadable template
(10:28:03) mdamboldt: Ok, so sounds we already moved to the topics of the Template Repository.
(10:28:28) mdamboldt: We created a ToDo list at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Template_Repository/ToDoList
(10:28:39) mdamboldt: Translation is one of the top priorities right now.
(10:29:19) CyHawk: quite a ToDo list :)
(10:29:43) mdamboldt: Unfortunatly right now, we are not able to put the strings into translation framework (pootle) because of the Chinese holidays this week.
(10:30:24) mdamboldt: We have no backup at hand who can work on the pootle stuff so we need to wait till next week.
(10:30:40) KAMI_Work: okay
(10:30:48) mdamboldt: Problaby b_osi has an interims solution at hand to start right now with translations?
(10:31:03) b_osi: For this workaround I created http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Templates/website/translation
(10:31:04) KAMI_Work: mdamboldt: Also we need a link on templates dialog to link this template site
(10:31:28) mdamboldt: KAMI_Work: You mean in the OOo product? There is already one.
(10:31:53) KAMI_Work: okay
(10:32:17) b_osi: As you can see, some strings on the site work already for translation.
(10:32:26) mdamboldt: Within the "Templates & Documents" dialog you can find a link called "Get more Templates..." or similar.
(10:32:45) mdamboldt: This will open a browser and show you the Template Repository.
(10:32:48) KAMI_Work: okay
(10:32:58) b_osi: I'm currently looking on how to get the 'upload your template' box and follow up links translated and displayed
(10:33:35) KAMI_Work: b_osi: it will be always updated, I see new stings here
(10:34:24) b_osi: KAMI_Work: yes, during my walktrough on the site i found some strings that were not translated, so i added them to the wiki page
(10:35:06) pescetti: So, for example, the Italian team (I'm the IT project lead) could submit a translation by using that wiki page now? And you will then import translations in the website?
(10:36:59) b_osi: pescetti: yes, I would put the strings manually in the website for selected languages - If people would want to upload templates .
(10:37:28) pescetti: We already have 130 templates in the OOo wiki, but we can discuss about this later.
(10:38:55) mdamboldt: Ok. So is this all about translation of the site for now? If yes, is there anything else to mention here which is already on the ToDo list which has been finished or changed?
(10:39:08) lgodard: mdamboldt: just a complement
(10:39:13) lgodard: from
(10:39:20) lgodard: for CyHawk suggestion
(10:39:26) lgodard: i totally agree
(10:39:59) b_osi: Tell a freind works for logged in users
(10:40:03) lgodard: i think we also should propose some kind of extension that would let submit translations of an extension directly from within OOo
(10:40:26) lgodard: but, need some common translation mechanism.
(10:40:33) CyHawk: hm, nice idea!
(10:40:43) lgodard: the idea behind is that no particalr skills
(10:40:59) lgodard: is required to translate, only fill columns in a spreadsheet
(10:41:15) CyHawk: i think i could write an extension that looks around and discovers java property file-based extensions and provides a localization and submission interface for them
(10:41:32) lgodard: i have a question on java.properties files
(10:41:41) lgodard: how does it handle the different encoding
(10:41:47) lgodard: i had some troubles in the past
(10:41:58) CyHawk: unicode characters are escaped with a backslash
(10:42:10) CyHawk: it's pretty inconvenient to manually write them
(10:42:15) lgodard: and based one or 2 extensions on a spreadsheet with different sheets
(10:42:20) lgodard: for teh languages
(10:42:28) lgodard: then it is naturally readable
(10:42:36) lgodard: and handle all encodings
(10:42:56) lgodard: and it seems rather quick
(10:43:07) lgodard: (but did not test on a big extension)
(10:43:18) CyHawk: yeah, this extension you propose could also handle this -- create a spreadsheet from the property file and then create the new property file from the spreadsheet when the translation is done
(10:43:35) lgodard: why use a property file then
(10:43:51) CyHawk: ooo dialogs use it, so extensions have no choice
(10:43:59) lgodard: hum
(10:44:16) CyHawk: also a spreadsheet would be much more complicated (and slow) to read than these simple files
(10:44:17) lgodard: i did not agree in the past with this ooo dialogs approach ;)
(10:44:49) lgodard: CyHawk: some api dedicated to extension (an extension itself) could handle it
(10:44:53) CyHawk: i'm not in love with the property files either, but there's nothing particularly wrong with them
(10:45:05) lgodard: expect the encoding (escapes)
(10:45:13) b_osi: mdamboldt: comments are also send to templates owners via email now
(10:46:01) CyHawk: yeah, that would be convenient -- but note that java extensions already have this api (from java) and python extensions can get it from my pet project (eurooffice extension creator)
(10:46:02) lgodard: CyHawk: opening a simple ods file in background, and returning an array of name values is rather straightforward
(10:46:16) lgodard: ok
(10:46:17) VA: mdamboldt: and the "author's display name" can now be changed
(10:46:33) b_osi: mdamboldt: yes, last feature added: Author is able to define an Display name
(10:47:04) b_osi: mdamboldt: it is on the users profile page to set.
(10:47:37) b_osi: And Stella ;-) got her small search box frame
(10:48:07) lgodard: CyHawk: btw, the ontermediate solution that is an extension that create the propertie file may be the solution
(10:48:16) lgodard: but i expect problem ...
(10:48:24) sts: and she loves it :)
(10:48:37) lgodard: especially for macro users
(10:48:57) lgodard: how do you read an escaped file in OOoBasic
(10:49:04) ***lgodard did not search though
(10:51:55) CyHawk: if someone is motivated enough to care about making their Basic extension localizable they could write a macro for reading the property file and share it with other Basic users
(10:52:03) CyHawk: actually i blame java for all this -- why are these property files not in utf-8? they would be so much easier to handle...
(10:52:03) mdamboldt: lgodard and CyHawk: Those ideas sound interesting. Unfortunatly I don't have deeper knowledge about technical details around localization. May by Juergen Schmidt might be the right one to get in touch with. I will foward your discussion to Juergen, too.
(10:52:46) mdamboldt: VA and b_osi: Thanks for the updates.
(10:53:11) mdamboldt: Are there any new items which are not yet on the ToDo list where you stumbled over?
(10:53:21) lgodard: CyHawk: the open statement in OOoBasic does not handle UTF-8 IIRC
(10:53:53) CyHawk: guys, if you think it is at least remotely a good idea, i can write a proof-of-concept extension for localizing other installed extensions and then you could take a look and discuss it next time -- should i go ahead?
(10:53:55) lgodard: mdamboldt: many thanks for handling this meeting
(10:54:13) lgodard: CyHawk: totally for me !
(10:54:20) CyHawk: alright then
(10:54:23) lgodard: CyHawk: feel free to contact me if questions
(10:54:42) lgodard: CyHawk: i what language do you plan to write it ?
(10:54:45) VA: mdamboldt: one (little) thing: the automatic language detection is enabled, too. so e.g. a german user gets initially the german templates ... :-)
(10:55:01) CyHawk: python
(10:56:03) lgodard: i think this extension could be 2-faces : write a new extension, retreive and serve a current translation
(10:56:08) b_osi: VA: ah, yes, thanks for remembering this. ;-)
(10:56:19) sts: yes, I like to have a nice looking feedback after upload a template
(10:56:29) lgodard: bCybut lets start simple
(10:56:37) lgodard: CyHawk: but lets start simple
(10:57:15) mdamboldt: sts: Not sure what it looks today....
(10:59:22) VA: mdamboldt: i think she means, that currently there is no "sexy" upload confirmation ...
(11:01:03) mdamboldt: VA: Ah, I see. Just tried it my self again. Indeed. There is nothing like a "Thankyou for uploading a new template" or simliar. Just a view very technical information and the new template item itself.
(11:02:02) mdamboldt: sts: Can you create some of those sexy "Thankyou" graphics? Hope it would be easys for b_osi to add such to the page!?
(11:02:52) sts: is in progess right now
(11:03:41) mdamboldt: May be we can enhance the page to show a) some kind of Thankyou banner, b) "Here some technical details about your upload" and c) "This is the new item you created:" 
(11:04:06) mdamboldt: May be Bettina has some better wording at hand :)
(11:06:12) mdamboldt: We are already 5 minutes after the planned meeting time.
(11:06:12) mdamboldt: Something else we should dicuss in todays meeting right now?
(11:06:29) pescetti: Well, I would like to know if there is a set workflow to migrate existing template repositories like http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/IT/Modelli (130 templates in Italian). From what I understood, 1) we translate the interface via the temporary wiki page [or directly in Drupal; I think I can manage if I am given access] 2) you add Italian to the site 3) We start uploading. Will it work like this? But feel free t
(11:07:08) CyHawk hat den Raum verlassen (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(11:08:04) VA: mdamboldt: maybe the usage of tags should be re-worked
(11:09:13) b_osi: pescetti: some fields of the file properties need to have some values http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Templates/website/guide just test with one template first, to see it works right - or send me an example i would take a look at.
(11:09:52) pescetti: Ok, thanks. But talian must be added to the available languages first.
(11:10:07) VA: mdamboldt: if a user do not uses commas to separate tags, in the tag cloud there is just *one* long tag like "blalalba blabla blablabla blabala ..."
(11:10:30) b_osi: pescetti: yes, but for this i need at least the translation of the first section 'categories'
(11:10:47) mdamboldt: VA: understood, will note an AI for b_osi to look into this
(11:11:03) pescetti: b_osi:  OK, I'll provide them soon.
(11:13:19) mdamboldt: So thats all for today?
(11:13:40) VA: mdamboldt: and last but not least: sophie gautier and others have already uploaded french templates :-)
(11:13:59) VA: tht's all
(11:15:12) mdamboldt: Ok, so I close this meeting for today.
(11:15:12) mdamboldt: Thankyou all for joining!!!
(11:15:12) mdamboldt: bye
(11:15:19) VA: bye
(11:15:44) b_osi: bye
(11:15:48) sts: bye