Difference between revisions of "Log Mac Meeting 25 May 2007"

Revision as of 20:48, 25 May 2007

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[22:05] * cloph_away is now known as cloph

[22:06] <ericb2> Can we start the meeting ?

[22:06] <boulifb> I'm here

[22:07] Bi-noix boulifb

[22:07] <ericb2> boulifb: hi :)

[22:07] <croy> I'm here too

[22:07] * cloph 's ready to listen :-)

[22:07] <boulifb> hi

[22:07] <ericb2> ok, let's go

[22:07] * mikeleib waves to all

[22:07] <ericb2> 1. Welcome new devs joining Mac OS X port

[22:08] <ericb2> new devs around ?

[22:08] <ericb2> feel free to present yourself

[22:08] <ericb2> this point is for you !

[22:09] <croy> I am proud to join this group. I am still in the position to observe before to be ready to perform actual work.

[22:09] * grahamperrin (n=grahampe@macbookpro03.centrim.freeman-centre.ac.uk) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:10] <ericb2> croy: be welcome !

[22:10] <grahamperrin> :)

[22:10] <boulifb> croy: where do you come from? what are you backgrounds?

[22:11] <croy> I am trying to understanf the global architecture of the OOo implementation for Aqua.

[22:11] <boulifb> croy: are you a student? a professional?

[22:11] <croy> Is there some doc explaining the way Carbon events are handled ?

[22:12] <boulifb> croy: you can find some docs on apple's site

[22:12] <boulifb> all about carbon is there

[22:12] <croy> I was a professional recently retired.

[22:13] <mav_eric> croy take a look at http://developer.apple.com/referencelibrary/

[22:13] <croy> I have a good knowledge of the Carbon world : my question was about OOo implementation.

[22:13] <boulifb> croy: ok :) if you are registered to apple's developer site (it's free) you can get all the needed doc about Carbon

[22:13] <boulifb> croy: sorry

[22:13] <mav_eric> and for OOo way see our wiki

[22:13] <boulifb> I'm a beginner in Mac OS programming :P

[22:13] <grahamperrin> Please, can someone refer me to the timeline? I viewed it many times in the past but lost track of where it is. Thanks

[22:13] <croy> For instance I did not found in OOo aqua source some call to handlers installation

[22:14] <ericb2> croy: I'd suggest you to read the content of vcl/aqua dir

[22:14] <ericb2> grahamperrin: next point ;)

[22:14] <grahamperrin> <Exposs many browser windows to re-locate the agenda>

[22:15] <ericb2> grahamperrin: please, we will discuss later this point

[22:16] <ericb2> croy: another good thing you could do, is come at office hours on this channel : a lot of people will certainly answer you

[22:17] <mav_eric> ericb2: what about our documentation in the wiki?

[22:17] <ericb2> mav_eric: sure

[22:17] <ericb2> croy: did you read it ?

[22:18] <ericb2> croy: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Intro_To_Mac_Porting

[22:18] <ericb2> croy: there is a reference for Carbon events BTW

[22:18] <croy> Yes I read but have not (yet!) found call to installHandler but I am sure to find that. I will follow your advices. Thnks

[22:20] <ericb2> croy: you mean createNewSystemWindow() in vcl/aqua/source/window/salframe.cxx maybe ?

[22:22] <croy> Thnks, this is the routine I was searching for. I will pursue from there

[22:23] <ericb2> croy: good :)

[22:23] <ericb2> Other new dev(s) ?

[22:24] <ericb2> Next point ?

[22:24] <ericb2> 2. Last Aqua news / Work in progress

[22:24] * shaunmcdonald (n=shaunmcd@82-41-64-110.cable.ubr09.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:24] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to shaunmcdonald

[22:24] <ericb2> Since last week, a lot of changes ( Herbert and Philipp are wizards :-) ):

[22:24] <ericb2> Impress works -> animations now *work* !

[22:24] <ericb2> Firstly fixed by Thorsten, Philipp proposed a complete solution (investigations in progress)

[22:24] <ericb2> Refresh issues are fixed !

[22:24] <ericb2> hdu fixed the text drawn at bad size when resizing

[22:25] <ericb2> Lot of improvements with fonts and text (see the changelog)

[22:25] <ericb2> Started MacOSXintegrator to use System fonts, and system info relative to the UI

[22:25] <ericb2> Beginning with clipboard ( Tino )

[22:25] <ericb2> Pavel analyzed the pushbutton issue in About + CTRL SDT  :-)

[22:25] <ericb2> More infos : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb#Changelog

[22:25] <ericb2> questions ?

[22:26] <mav_eric> is there a build with all those additions?

[22:26] <ericb2> mav_eric: yes

[22:26] <mav_eric> or is shall I start one after the meeting is done?

[22:26] <ericb2> mav_eric: no, not the clipboard

[22:27] <ericb2> mav_eric: it is up to you. Pavel and me do provide builds

[22:27] macjogi mav_eric

[22:27] <ericb2> mav_eric: mine is not vanilla though

[22:27] <mav_eric> o.k. I'll go and see if I can find an adequate build on Pavel's FTP

[22:28] macjogi mav_eric

[22:28] <mav_eric> ericb2: btw. Did you compile the PPC build I asked for?

[22:28] <ericb2> mav_eric: there is one, but too old, and very unstable

[22:28] <ericb2> mav_eric: I'll redo one asap

[22:28] <mav_eric> ericb2: Thank you

[22:29] <ericb2> FYI, my changes : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/patches/salframe/may07/aquavcl01_ericb.diff

[22:29] <ericb2> + aquafilepicker01 inside

[22:29] <ericb2> nothing else

[22:29] <ericb2> No question(s)  ?

[22:30] <ericb2> ok .. let's continue

[22:30] <ericb2> Top 10 of Issues ( 9 fixed / 1 not fixed ) ( 72248 : vcl compiled with debug crashes )

[22:30] <ericb2> More infos : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb/Top10_of_Issues

[22:31] <ericb2> Aqua status : close to alpha

[22:31] <mav_eric> nice :-)

[22:31] <ericb2> I forgot : Pavel provides en-US, and I do provide fr and de

[22:32] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: is that really needed for alpha as it might not affect end users

[22:32] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: what ? Fix issue 72248

[22:32] <IZBot> porting DEFECT STARTED vcl compiled with debug crashes http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=72248

[22:32] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: yes

[22:33] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: the meeting is the place to discuss that point ..

[22:33] * mav_eric thinks shaunmcdonald is right

[22:33] <mav_eric> the end-user doesn't see this

[22:33] <mav_eric> and he doesn't care about it

[22:33] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: currently, we have 3 known crashes (only)

[22:33] <mav_eric> plus it could be a good point. Be the dev who solves the "last" remaining problem :-)

[22:33] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: maybe the root is the same , we don't really know

[22:34] <ericb2> mav_eric: Tino is searching since at least a month

[22:34] <ericb2> mav_eric: this is not trivial at all, we know approximatively everything about it, but not "why"

[22:35] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: so the cause of the crash for issue 72248 could be the same for the other crashes

[22:35] <IZBot> porting DEFECT STARTED vcl compiled with debug crashes http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=72248

[22:35] <mav_eric> ericb2: I believe you but do those crashes effect the end-user?

[22:35] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: no idea

[22:35] macjogi mav_eric

[22:35] <mav_eric> ericb2: does the end-user have any downsides from a non-debug vcl?

[22:35] <ericb2> mav_eric: the problem is existing crashes is not good at all

[22:36] <mav_eric> ericb2: I completele agree with you on this here

[22:36] * ismael_ (n=ismael@123.149.119-80.rev.gaoland.net) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:36] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to ismael_

[22:36] <ismael_> hi

[22:36] <ericb2> to complete my description of current aqua stauts :

[22:36] <ericb2> status, sorry

[22:36] <mav_eric> ericb2: but for once - please change your point of view from the one of a dev into the one of a end-user who has no clue what he can do with a vcl that enables debugging

[22:37] <ericb2> mav_eric: no problem for me, but I feel alone this evening, and I don't want to decide alone

[22:38] * shaunmcdonald wonders if ooo aqua is ready enough to use for doing an impress presentation

[22:38] <mav_eric> ericb2: you're not alone. It's just that it looks like that shaun and I are O.K. with the Alpha if the end-user isn't effected by this bug

[22:39] <mav_eric> shaunmcdonald: I haven't tried it yet. But I did work with a build Eric B provided earlier this week and had no data loss and only one crash

[22:40] <shaunmcdonald> we should remember that development can continue after the release of the alpha, with the possibility of doing regular (maybe monthly) release

[22:40] <ericb2> mav_eric: BTW, the last version is the one from yesterday evening, and I started to use it (very stable, modulo the crashed described above)

[22:40] <ericb2> FYI :

[22:40] <ericb2> Current Aqua issues list (estimated issues for final release) : http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua

[22:40] <ericb2> http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua

[22:40] <ericb2> 143 issues with aqua keyword ; 38 issues FIXED or WORK or DUP ; 17 started ; 88 NEW

[22:41] <shaunmcdonald> we should note our time line which, if I remember correctly states that we would release ooo aqua alpha this month

[22:41] <mav_eric> shaunmcdonald: plus we have an appetizer for devs. We could state in the PR that we need the help with this remaining issue

[22:41] <mav_eric> so we have a PR for end-user and one for devs

[22:42] <ericb2> I propose to write a mail at mac@porting list

[22:42] <ericb2> and ask who disagrees, and why

[22:42] <mav_eric> ericb2: shaunmcdonald is right. If we don't get out an Alpha all the hype about Sun joining us is gone and all PR is again back to Neo folks

[22:42] <mav_eric> they make fun of us if they don't see anything - rather sooner than later

[22:42] macjogi mav_eric

[22:42] <mav_eric> ericb2: they don't care about developer fancies

[22:43] <ericb2> ok, I ask for a vote

[22:43] <ericb2> Who agrees to provide alpha , i.e. Pavel and my builds ( but other are welcome )

[22:43] <ericb2> ?

[22:44] <ismael_> +1

[22:44] <mav_eric> +1

[22:44] <cloph> Nor sure whether one should call it alpha already..

[22:45] <cloph> Providing builds is OK, I'm just not sure about the tag "alpha"...

[22:45] <ismael_> maybe pre-alpha?

[22:45] <ericb2> cloph: indeed, a lot is missing

[22:45] <ericb2> cloph: I'd like to call it development snapshot

[22:45] <mav_eric> that's fine

[22:45] <mav_eric> development snapshot

[22:45] <ericb2> we need more voices. 2 are not enough

[22:46] <grahamperrin> I agree that development snapshot sounds fine

[22:46] <shaunmcdonald> +1 for alpha build, making sure it runs on a clean install of Mac OS X

[22:46] <mav_eric> the name is second ranked - it's really important to get the builds out and in the wild

[22:46] <ismael_> ericb2: +mine (3)

[22:46] <thorsten> +1 for pre-alpha, and getting the builds out

[22:47] <mav_eric> we all here have more or less no plain vanilla os x installation and we know how to hack around

[22:47] <ericb2> thorsten: did you test my builds ?

[22:47] * cloph 'll soon have one again :-//

[22:47] <thorsten> ericb2: nope - my own

[22:47] <ericb2> thorsten: should be better ;)

[22:47] <mav_eric> cloph: tinderbox ready for new set up again?

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