Log Mac Meeting 25 May 2007

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[22:05] * cloph_away is now known as cloph

[22:06] <ericb2> Can we start the meeting ?

[22:06] <boulifb> I'm here

[22:07] Bi-noix boulifb

[22:07] <ericb2> boulifb: hi :)

[22:07] <croy> I'm here too

[22:07] * cloph 's ready to listen :-)

[22:07] <boulifb> hi

[22:07] <ericb2> ok, let's go

[22:07] * mikeleib waves to all

[22:07] <ericb2> 1. Welcome new devs joining Mac OS X port

[22:08] <ericb2> new devs around ?

[22:08] <ericb2> feel free to present yourself

[22:08] <ericb2> this point is for you !

[22:09] <croy> I am proud to join this group. I am still in the position to observe before to be ready to perform actual work.

[22:09] * grahamperrin (n=grahampe@macbookpro03.centrim.freeman-centre.ac.uk) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:10] <ericb2> croy: be welcome !

[22:10] <grahamperrin> :)

[22:10] <boulifb> croy: where do you come from? what are you backgrounds?

[22:11] <croy> I am trying to understanf the global architecture of the OOo implementation for Aqua.

[22:11] <boulifb> croy: are you a student? a professional?

[22:11] <croy> Is there some doc explaining the way Carbon events are handled ?

[22:12] <boulifb> croy: you can find some docs on apple's site

[22:12] <boulifb> all about carbon is there

[22:12] <croy> I was a professional recently retired.

[22:13] <mav_eric> croy take a look at http://developer.apple.com/referencelibrary/

[22:13] <croy> I have a good knowledge of the Carbon world : my question was about OOo implementation.

[22:13] <boulifb> croy: ok :) if you are registered to apple's developer site (it's free) you can get all the needed doc about Carbon

[22:13] <boulifb> croy: sorry

[22:13] <mav_eric> and for OOo way see our wiki

[22:13] <boulifb> I'm a beginner in Mac OS programming :P

[22:13] <grahamperrin> Please, can someone refer me to the timeline? I viewed it many times in the past but lost track of where it is. Thanks

[22:13] <croy> For instance I did not found in OOo aqua source some call to handlers installation

[22:14] <ericb2> croy: I'd suggest you to read the content of vcl/aqua dir

[22:14] <ericb2> grahamperrin: next point ;)

[22:14] <grahamperrin> <Exposs many browser windows to re-locate the agenda>

[22:15] <ericb2> grahamperrin: please, we will discuss later this point

[22:16] <ericb2> croy: another good thing you could do, is come at office hours on this channel : a lot of people will certainly answer you

[22:17] <mav_eric> ericb2: what about our documentation in the wiki?

[22:17] <ericb2> mav_eric: sure

[22:17] <ericb2> croy: did you read it ?

[22:18] <ericb2> croy: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Intro_To_Mac_Porting

[22:18] <ericb2> croy: there is a reference for Carbon events BTW

[22:18] <croy> Yes I read but have not (yet!) found call to installHandler but I am sure to find that. I will follow your advices. Thnks

[22:20] <ericb2> croy: you mean createNewSystemWindow() in vcl/aqua/source/window/salframe.cxx maybe ?

[22:22] <croy> Thnks, this is the routine I was searching for. I will pursue from there

[22:23] <ericb2> croy: good :)

[22:23] <ericb2> Other new dev(s) ?

[22:24] <ericb2> Next point ?

[22:24] <ericb2> 2. Last Aqua news / Work in progress

[22:24] * shaunmcdonald (n=shaunmcd@82-41-64-110.cable.ubr09.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:24] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to shaunmcdonald

[22:24] <ericb2> Since last week, a lot of changes ( Herbert and Philipp are wizards :-) ):

[22:24] <ericb2> Impress works -> animations now *work* !

[22:24] <ericb2> Firstly fixed by Thorsten, Philipp proposed a complete solution (investigations in progress)

[22:24] <ericb2> Refresh issues are fixed !

[22:24] <ericb2> hdu fixed the text drawn at bad size when resizing

[22:25] <ericb2> Lot of improvements with fonts and text (see the changelog)

[22:25] <ericb2> Started MacOSXintegrator to use System fonts, and system info relative to the UI

[22:25] <ericb2> Beginning with clipboard ( Tino )

[22:25] <ericb2> Pavel analyzed the pushbutton issue in About + CTRL SDT  :-)

[22:25] <ericb2> More infos : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb#Changelog

[22:25] <ericb2> questions ?

[22:26] <mav_eric> is there a build with all those additions?

[22:26] <ericb2> mav_eric: yes

[22:26] <mav_eric> or is shall I start one after the meeting is done?

[22:26] <ericb2> mav_eric: no, not the clipboard

[22:27] <ericb2> mav_eric: it is up to you. Pavel and me do provide builds

[22:27] macjogi mav_eric

[22:27] <ericb2> mav_eric: mine is not vanilla though

[22:27] <mav_eric> o.k. I'll go and see if I can find an adequate build on Pavel's FTP

[22:28] macjogi mav_eric

[22:28] <mav_eric> ericb2: btw. Did you compile the PPC build I asked for?

[22:28] <ericb2> mav_eric: there is one, but too old, and very unstable

[22:28] <ericb2> mav_eric: I'll redo one asap

[22:28] <mav_eric> ericb2: Thank you

[22:29] <ericb2> FYI, my changes : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/patches/salframe/may07/aquavcl01_ericb.diff

[22:29] <ericb2> + aquafilepicker01 inside

[22:29] <ericb2> nothing else

[22:29] <ericb2> No question(s)  ?

[22:30] <ericb2> ok .. let's continue

[22:30] <ericb2> Top 10 of Issues ( 9 fixed / 1 not fixed ) ( 72248 : vcl compiled with debug crashes )

[22:30] <ericb2> More infos : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb/Top10_of_Issues

[22:31] <ericb2> Aqua status : close to alpha

[22:31] <mav_eric> nice :-)

[22:31] <ericb2> I forgot : Pavel provides en-US, and I do provide fr and de

[22:32] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: is that really needed for alpha as it might not affect end users

[22:32] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: what ? Fix issue 72248

[22:32] <IZBot> porting DEFECT STARTED vcl compiled with debug crashes http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=72248

[22:32] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: yes

[22:33] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: the meeting is the place to discuss that point ..

[22:33] * mav_eric thinks shaunmcdonald is right

[22:33] <mav_eric> the end-user doesn't see this

[22:33] <mav_eric> and he doesn't care about it

[22:33] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: currently, we have 3 known crashes (only)

[22:33] <mav_eric> plus it could be a good point. Be the dev who solves the "last" remaining problem :-)

[22:33] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: maybe the root is the same , we don't really know

[22:34] <ericb2> mav_eric: Tino is searching since at least a month

[22:34] <ericb2> mav_eric: this is not trivial at all, we know approximatively everything about it, but not "why"

[22:35] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: so the cause of the crash for issue 72248 could be the same for the other crashes

[22:35] <IZBot> porting DEFECT STARTED vcl compiled with debug crashes http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=72248

[22:35] <mav_eric> ericb2: I believe you but do those crashes effect the end-user?

[22:35] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: no idea

[22:35] macjogi mav_eric

[22:35] <mav_eric> ericb2: does the end-user have any downsides from a non-debug vcl?

[22:35] <ericb2> mav_eric: the problem is existing crashes is not good at all

[22:36] <mav_eric> ericb2: I completele agree with you on this here

[22:36] * ismael_ (n=ismael@123.149.119-80.rev.gaoland.net) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:36] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to ismael_

[22:36] <ismael_> hi

[22:36] <ericb2> to complete my description of current aqua stauts :

[22:36] <ericb2> status, sorry

[22:36] <mav_eric> ericb2: but for once - please change your point of view from the one of a dev into the one of a end-user who has no clue what he can do with a vcl that enables debugging

[22:37] <ericb2> mav_eric: no problem for me, but I feel alone this evening, and I don't want to decide alone

[22:38] * shaunmcdonald wonders if ooo aqua is ready enough to use for doing an impress presentation

[22:38] <mav_eric> ericb2: you're not alone. It's just that it looks like that shaun and I are O.K. with the Alpha if the end-user isn't effected by this bug

[22:39] <mav_eric> shaunmcdonald: I haven't tried it yet. But I did work with a build Eric B provided earlier this week and had no data loss and only one crash

[22:40] <shaunmcdonald> we should remember that development can continue after the release of the alpha, with the possibility of doing regular (maybe monthly) release

[22:40] <ericb2> mav_eric: BTW, the last version is the one from yesterday evening, and I started to use it (very stable, modulo the crashed described above)

[22:40] <ericb2> FYI :

[22:40] <ericb2> Current Aqua issues list (estimated issues for final release) : http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua

[22:40] <ericb2> http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua

[22:40] <ericb2> 143 issues with aqua keyword ; 38 issues FIXED or WORK or DUP ; 17 started ; 88 NEW

[22:41] <shaunmcdonald> we should note our time line which, if I remember correctly states that we would release ooo aqua alpha this month

[22:41] <mav_eric> shaunmcdonald: plus we have an appetizer for devs. We could state in the PR that we need the help with this remaining issue

[22:41] <mav_eric> so we have a PR for end-user and one for devs

[22:42] <ericb2> I propose to write a mail at mac@porting list

[22:42] <ericb2> and ask who disagrees, and why

[22:42] <mav_eric> ericb2: shaunmcdonald is right. If we don't get out an Alpha all the hype about Sun joining us is gone and all PR is again back to Neo folks

[22:42] <mav_eric> they make fun of us if they don't see anything - rather sooner than later

[22:42] macjogi mav_eric

[22:42] <mav_eric> ericb2: they don't care about developer fancies

[22:43] <ericb2> ok, I ask for a vote

[22:43] <ericb2> Who agrees to provide alpha , i.e. Pavel and my builds ( but other are welcome )

[22:43] <ericb2> ?

[22:44] <ismael_> +1

[22:44] <mav_eric> +1

[22:44] <cloph> Nor sure whether one should call it alpha already..

[22:45] <cloph> Providing builds is OK, I'm just not sure about the tag "alpha"...

[22:45] <ismael_> maybe pre-alpha?

[22:45] <ericb2> cloph: indeed, a lot is missing

[22:45] <ericb2> cloph: I'd like to call it development snapshot

[22:45] <mav_eric> that's fine

[22:45] <mav_eric> development snapshot

[22:45] <ericb2> we need more voices. 2 are not enough

[22:46] <grahamperrin> I agree that development snapshot sounds fine

[22:46] <shaunmcdonald> +1 for alpha build, making sure it runs on a clean install of Mac OS X

[22:46] <mav_eric> the name is second ranked - it's really important to get the builds out and in the wild

[22:46] <ismael_> ericb2: +mine (3)

[22:46] <thorsten> +1 for pre-alpha, and getting the builds out

[22:47] <mav_eric> we all here have more or less no plain vanilla os x installation and we know how to hack around

[22:47] <ericb2> thorsten: did you test my builds ?

[22:47] * cloph 'll soon have one again :-//

[22:47] <thorsten> ericb2: nope - my own

[22:47] <ericb2> thorsten: should be better ;)

[22:47] <mav_eric> cloph: tinderbox ready for new set up again?

[22:47] <thorsten> ericb2: nope - my own

[22:47] <ericb2> thorsten: should be better ;)

[22:47] <mav_eric> cloph: tinderbox ready for new set up again?

[22:48] <cloph> Yes, unfortunately ...

[22:48] * cloph now enjoys the ease of an ubuntu install and then tries to install Mac OS X into a VM (or an emulator)

[22:48] <ericb2> About Tinderbox, I'll try to dedicate one for Aqua builds only

[22:48] <cloph> But I have another Mac-installation ready in case someone needs a PPC build...

[22:49] <ericb2> back to development snapshot

[22:49] <ericb2> I propose to provide development snapshots with native filepicker inside

[22:49] <ericb2> else, nothing "Mac " will be inside yet

[22:49] <cloph> That means aquavcl01 + some additoinal patches? Hmm...

[22:50] <ericb2> cloph: indeed

[22:50] <shaunmcdonald> currently the buildbots that are owned by ericb2 and shaunmcdonald are building the cWS aquavcl01 to produce aqua builds rather than X11 builds on that CWS

[22:50] <ericb2> cloph: aquavcl01 + aquafilepicker01 exactly

[22:50] <mav_eric> ericb2: so we need to merge cws aquavcl01 and aquanativefilepicker?

[22:50] <ericb2> mav_eric: not a problem for manual builds : i described everything on the wiki

[22:51] <mav_eric> ericb2: I know but for the bots :-)

[22:51] <ericb2> mav_eric: not possible

[22:51] macjogi mav_eric

[22:51] <ericb2> mav_eric: next point is about aquavcl01 integration

[22:51] macjogi mav_eric

[22:51] <mav_eric> the bots afaik aren't able to build two cws

[22:51] <ericb2> mav_eric: unfortunaly

[22:52] <shaunmcdonald> mav_eric: we can get them to apply patches manually depending on the CWS, though it is best to avoid this

[22:52] * mav_eric should do a native build with vanilla sources and both cws to see if we can provide this as a dev snapshot

[22:52] <cloph> Yes, it's not possible, since it is very likely that the two contain the same modules, and buildbot/tinderbox is too "dumb" to decide which one should win...

[22:53] * ericb2 volunteer to provide such snapshot

[22:53] <mikeleib> buildbot has a feature to try a "patch" but I haven't enabled it. It would allow you to build a branch with a patch applied

[22:53] <mav_eric> shaunmcdonald: I can remember those patch sets - it was a pain to get them working properly

[22:53] <cloph> shaunmcdonald: No, this is a bad idea. This would mean to maintain a patch of a whole cws... I'm not a big fan of that idea at all.

[22:54] <mav_eric> ericb2: that would be fine. I have enough Macs around here with no XCode etc installed

[22:54] <ericb2> again, development snapshot is not production, and I already built en-US, de and fr

[22:54] <ericb2> I can complete with PowerPC soon

[22:54] <mav_eric> both Intel and PPC so I can test on vanilla OS X if our builds would work and if so I give green light for getting those builds out

[22:55] <ericb2> mav_eric: Apple poeple already tested, and at least 7 friends of mine tested ;)

[22:55] <mav_eric> ericb2: it's a matter of communication - if we announce it the right way nobody should be able to blame us

[22:55] macjogi mav_eric

[22:55] * mav_eric is glad to read this

[22:55] <shaunmcdonald> is the filepicker CWS ready to be integrated?

[22:55] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: some code review is needed

[22:56] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: not a big thing

[22:56] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: Pavel did the review

[22:56] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: once that is done, it should make life easier

[22:56] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: it wil take two weeks at least

[22:56] <shaunmcdonald> especially after a resync to the next master that it would be in

[22:56] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: two weeks is long

[22:57] <shaunmcdonald> too long for getting an alpha out

[22:57] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: I think so : this would postpone after WWDC

[22:58] <shaunmcdonald> -1 to wait integration of the filepicker cws then

[22:58] <mav_eric> it would be fine to get something out in time with WWDC

[22:58] <ericb2> As summary : I'll upload alpha Intel and PowerPC on a strong server, and once done, we start to communicate

[22:58] <mav_eric> ericb2: +1 for that

[22:58] <ismael_> ericb2: +1 too

[22:59] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: can we please use the mirror network

[22:59] * cloph 'd love to se a bittorrent download ;-)

[22:59] <ericb2> The snapshot will contain : current vanilla + filepicker + a little change to avoid awfull grey /blue

[22:59] * shaunmcdonald thinks demand will be too high for a single server

[22:59] <shaunmcdonald> cloph: +1

[22:59] <grahamperrin> can it be torrented?

[22:59] <grahamperrin> I too would love.

[22:59] <ericb2> cloph: can you set up a torrent ? I'm a complete newbie

[22:59] * shaunmcdonald can setup torrent

[22:59] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: thanks :)

[22:59] <cloph> Yes, we have trackers and we have at least one server seed for it

[22:59] <grahamperrin> shaunmcdonald: thx

[23:00] <shaunmcdonald> only has a part time azuerus host though

[23:00] <ericb2> cloph: I'll contact Louis and st ( martin seems to be away )

[23:00] <ericb2> @all : the snapshot will stay as it, until big improvements, right ?

[23:01] <ericb2> say a month or so

[23:01] * cloph can put it on the main tracker

[23:01] * shaunmcdonald has slow upload, but that shouldn't be a problem after a few hours and it has been distributed a bit

[23:01] <shaunmcdonald> cloph: that would be a great idea

[23:01] <shaunmcdonald> what about the mirror network?

[23:01] <cloph> Mirror network is more complicated, since you'd need access to one of the masters (I don't)

[23:01] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: sure, but I have to ask first

[23:01] <grahamperrin> Will the torrent be available via <http://distribution.openoffice.org/p2p/index.html>?

[23:02] <ericb2> cloph: I have an access, not sure this is a master (maybe )

[23:02] <shaunmcdonald> many people have problems with bittorrent

[23:02] <shaunmcdonald> grahamperrin: the mac port pages

[23:02] <shaunmcdonald> will hopefully have the time to update http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/download/index.html

[23:02] <cloph> No, but they'd be available using http://ooodev.org:6969/

[23:03] <shaunmcdonald> and http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/faq/aqua-prerelease/index.html

[23:03] <cloph> The borft tracker and the ooodev tracker are connected using a tracker-hub (they share the peer information)

[23:03] <grahamperrin> The more ordinary user might expect to see it at http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/download/index.html

[23:03] <grahamperrin> thx

[23:03] <shaunmcdonald> cloph: I put the bittorrent links on http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/download/x11-104-Intel.html

[23:03] <ericb2> grahamperrin: imagine the speed the info will propagate ;)

[23:04] <ericb2> Next point ?

[23:04] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: probably faster than the sun dev news, which spread quite far and wide

[23:04] <mikesic> ericb2: On the download pages, can we include instructions for reporting problems?

[23:05] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: feel free to advertise Neo fora

[23:05] <grahamperrin> very far, and that's a great thing, but not as great as I found the developer version to be :)

[23:05] <grahamperrin> an *enormous* surprise to find it running :)

[23:05] <shaunmcdonald> mikesic: please produce a draft text, as I don't have time with my dissertation

[23:05] <mikesic> shaunmcdonald: I will send one to you ;)

[23:05] <ericb2> mikesic: Hi Michael. Good idea !

[23:06] <ericb2> to avoid zillions of dupe , and as reminder : http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua

[23:06] <mikesic> shaunmcdonald: via the list as well

[23:06] <shaunmcdonald> mikesic: if you have any other changes you want to the site please let me know, ideally as a draft/sample text

[23:06] <shaunmcdonald> mikesic: either will get through to me

[23:06] <grahamperrin> I have one to add to the list already. Will do so as soon as I have retrieved my password

[23:07] <ericb2> mikesic: don't forget to claim we need coders ;)

[23:07] <mikesic> 8)

[23:08] <shaunmcdonald> will we set a date for the release now ?

[23:08] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: for the timeline ?

[23:09] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: more for the preparation of the other relevant items, and the news release, as I include the date in news releases

[23:09] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: say end 2007

[23:09] <shaunmcdonald> 31 May 2007 for the alpha release

[23:09] <shaunmcdonald> ?

[23:10] <shaunmcdonald> meant the alpha not beta release

[23:10] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: no, stay prudent. alpha sure for OOoCon2007

[23:10] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: we are volunteers, and I don't see any problem if we are in late, once a snapshot is out

[23:10] <mikesic> So this is called what - developer snapshot?

[23:10] <ericb2> mikesic: yes

[23:11] <ericb2> mikesic: more adapted

[23:11] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: I'm looking for the date of the alpha preview

[23:11] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: may 2007 was written

[23:11] * shaunmcdonald prefers "alpha preview" to "developer snapshot"

[23:11] <grahamperrin> agrees

[23:11] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: a lot of features are missing

[23:12] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: drag and drop, printing, and the look

[23:12] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: that's what you expect in an alpha preview

[23:12] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: for the look, we sure will have someting for the OOoCon 2007

[23:12] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: indeed

[23:12] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: ok, I'll follow people

[23:12] <grahamperrin> d+d more important than look IMHO

[23:12] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: the beta will be almost there and ready for release

[23:12] <shaunmcdonald> grahamperrin: +1

[23:13] <grahamperrin> and QuickTime but I'l detail this under AOB

[23:13] <cloph> drag'n'drop really seems to be a mac-thing.. Probably because with only one mouse button, you didn't really have anothe choice :-P

[23:13] <ericb2> cloph: tino started the implementation, and will do it

[23:14] <ericb2> cloph: at this time, only paste ( text ) works

[23:14] <shaunmcdonald> are all the green tasks on http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/timeline.html complete so that those items can be turned green?

[23:14] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: there is a problem with Neo spotlight integration

[23:14] <ericb2> http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1187

[23:15] <ericb2> and Mox is not present to inform us about what happened

[23:15] <cloph> ericb2: Yes, I just was making fun of the drag'n'drop obsession of mac users. Linux or windows users are way more used to right-click and choose cut/copy and then paste.. (when it comes to different apps)

[23:16] <LpSolit> alpha doesn't mean "feature complete". That's the definition of beta

[23:16] <grahamperrin> agrees

[23:16] <LpSolit> you can even name it alpha1, and later release alpha2

[23:16] <LpSolit> when it's feature complete, call it beta

[23:16] <ericb2> LpSolit: yes !

[23:16] <ericb2> LpSolit: very good idea

[23:17] <ericb2> Next point ?

[23:17] <ericb2> 3. Start aquavcl01 cws integration

[23:18] <ericb2> I think it's time to start (partial) aquavcl01 integration

[23:18] <ericb2> we need volunteers to help Pavel Janik

[23:18] <ericb2> Main tasks are :

[23:18] <ericb2> create cvs,

[23:18] <ericb2> commit,

[23:18] <ericb2> build

[23:18] <ericb2> test and reverse what has been integrated from aquavcl01 (maybe this is automatic during resync)

[23:19] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: create cvs? should that be cws?

[23:19] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: indeed

[23:19] <ericb2> s/create cvs/create cws/

[23:19] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: thanks !

[23:19] <ericb2> Other tasks I see:

[23:19] <ericb2> - define other cws ( eg macclipboard , macprinting)

[23:19] <ericb2> - aquabundle started ( Oliver, me )

[23:20] <shaunmcdonald> will we create a new cws for future aqua development and integrate the cvs aquavcl01, making sure that it doesn't affect other platforms

[23:20] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: exactly, but progressively

[23:20] <shaunmcdonald> then we would be able to build aqua of the milestones

[23:21] <grahamperrin> back to NeoLight for a moment, I'm a member of MacFusion Project ... MacFUSE already has SpotlightFS, we in the Project could encourage development of something. If that helps

[23:21] <grahamperrin> AOB if you like

[23:22] <ericb2> grahamperrin: if neo spolight integration causes too much problems, do you think a new plugin can be rewrittent from scratch ?

[23:22] * cloph doesn't understand what "test and reverse" means..

[23:22] <cloph> Why can't it be integrated as it is? Why are different cws needed?

[23:22] <shaunmcdonald> cloph: +1

[23:22] <ericb2> cloph: we have to do things progressively

[23:22] <ericb2> cloph: asl paveljanik

[23:22] <grahamperrin> ericb2: we seem to have some fine developers on board (not only the ones that are evident in the project, there's much going on behind the scenes) so I can make the suggestion, if you think it will help

[23:22] <cloph> ericb2: May I ask why?

[23:23] <ericb2> grahamperrin: you are welcome :)

[23:23] <cloph> chart2mst3 was integrated in one go as well ;-P

[23:23] <cloph> aquavcl01 built fine on linux and on Mac with X11 enabled...

[23:23] <ericb2> cloph: the problem with aquavcl01, vcl has not been reviewed

[23:23] * mav_eric also doesn't see any problems in integrating cws aquavcl01 as it is

[23:23] <ericb2> cloph: but I agree, it should fit in one pass

[23:23] <ericb2> grahamperrin: thanks you for your proposal !

[23:24] <mav_eric> ericb2: so we need to organize vcl review and once it's done we can integrate the whole cws?

[23:24] <cloph> ericb2: one cws = QA needs to be done once, multiple cws you need to do QA more than once...

[23:24] <ericb2> grahamperrin: btw, will you attend WWDC ?

[23:24] <grahamperrin> np

[23:24] <mav_eric> if so there are enough devs tonight we can ask to do this

[23:24] <ericb2> cloph: but easy QA

[23:24] <grahamperrin> ericb2: ADC online not even select I'm not a developer but have a very keen interest

[23:24] <ericb2> grahamperrin: ok

[23:25] <cloph> ericb2: QA might be easy, yes. But you probably spend way more time preparing these smaller cws.

[23:25] <ericb2> cloph: mcan you discuss the point with Pavel ?

[23:25] <cloph> But I don't really have an overview of all the changes.

[23:25] <grahamperrin> ericb2: other people in or around MacFUSE or MacFusion will probably be at Google Summer of Code, if that helps.

[23:25] <ericb2> cloph: 15 modules, the biggest one is vcl

[23:25] <cloph> Not sure when his holiday starts...

[23:25] <ericb2> cloph: .. yes

[23:26] <ericb2> cloph: on monday I think

[23:26] <cloph> ericb2: Sure, but you cannot just say: I'll make one cws for module X, another one for module Y, the changes surely depend on each other...

[23:26] <mav_eric> cloph: Bavaria is always one of the last "bundeslnder" to start holidays

[23:26] <cloph> Finding these dependencies will be really timeconsuming (at least for somebody who did not participate in that cws from the beginning)

[23:26] <ericb2> cloph: this is orthogonal: the resync will adpat everything

[23:26] <mav_eric> cloph: if your still going to school or university

[23:26] <cloph> mav_eric: But Pavel is not from Bavaria :-)

[23:26] <mav_eric> cloph:  ;-)

[23:28] <ericb2> As summary, this point needs to be discussed more

[23:28] <ericb2> Next point ?

[23:29] <ericb2> 4. WWDC 2007 (weekly news)

[23:29] <ericb2> I finally found the resources, and Philipp Lohman will attend !!

[23:29] <ericb2> I have already booked two rendez-vous with Apple engineers

[23:29] <ericb2> 1- for events / threads

[23:29] <ericb2> 2- User Interface

[23:30] <ericb2> in Labs

[23:30] <ericb2> Questions ?

[23:31] <ericb2> Next point:

[23:31] <ericb2> 5. URGENT : Prepare OOoCon 2007 ( deadline : 1st June for proposal ! )

[23:31] <ericb2> very urgent, indeed

[23:32] <ericb2> who will propose a conf ?

[23:32] <shaunmcdonald> mikeleib: :-)

[23:32] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: he he

[23:32] * mikeleib is on phone..

[23:32] <ericb2> Philipp Lohmann, probably , and me

[23:33] * mikeleib can talk about buildbot.. but it seems that macporters have enough for their own talk

[23:33] * shaunmcdonald was going to think about doing a presentation with the help of mikeleib about buildbots/tinderboxes and how devs can use them to their advantage

[23:33] <ericb2> I'll present the Aqua version. third part : the Light

[23:33] * mikeleib will probably try to cowrite with shaunmcdonald

[23:33] * shaunmcdonald thinks that will be a good idea, due to the limited time

[23:34] <shaunmcdonald> some links

[23:34] <shaunmcdonald> http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2007/cfp.html

[23:34] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: thanks :-)

[23:34] <shaunmcdonald> thursday next week is the deadline

[23:34] <shaunmcdonald> http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2007/speakers.html

[23:34] <mav_eric> shaunmcdonald: this would be a great talk and not only interesting for Mac devs so why don't you propose it

[23:36] <shaunmcdonald> mav_eric: that would probably be a good idea, otherwise I will be still asking myself what would be a good thing to talk about

[23:36] <ericb2> mikesic I don't forget to ask for your travel. I'll manage some times to discuss with Jesus and Louis

[23:36] <mav_eric> shaunmcdonald:  :-)

[23:37] <mav_eric> ericb2: is there something important that I need to wait for?

[23:37] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: the OOoCon is the place where you describe what you are doing. And you have a lot of things to say, don't you ?

[23:37] <ericb2> mav_eric: I'd like we prepare the PR content, and define a strategy

[23:38] <ericb2> mav_eric: but we can discuss the point later

[23:38] <mav_eric> ericb2: o.k. it just that I'm tired and I need to get up early tomorrow at 7:30

[23:38] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: I'll ask you to help us too

[23:38] <mav_eric> I promised a friend to help her moving

[23:38] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: there's a bit about the buildbots, mac web site, a tad of testing and my cycling

[23:38] <ericb2> mav_eric: is it possible this week end ?

[23:39] <ericb2> mav_eric: count one hour max (I'll prepare )

[23:39] <mav_eric> ericb2: on sunday yes. Tomorrow I will be out for most of the day

[23:39] <ericb2> mav_eric: ok, noticed

[23:39] <ericb2> mav_eric: I'll drop you a mail if I can't

[23:39] <mav_eric> ericb2: sounds good.

[23:40] <mav_eric> ericb2: I will be here for a few more minutes so don't hesitate

[23:40] <ericb2> Next point (the last we can discuss this evenng IMHO ): 6. TODO tasks in Issues - to better know what needs doing and who is doing what

[23:40] <ericb2> mav_eric: I'm off too

[23:40] <ericb2> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AquaToDo#Other_known_issues

[23:41] <ericb2> ok ?

[23:41] <ericb2> @all I won't be able to attend the next meeting : I'll be at 24h Info Maubeuge France, for a conf. I'll probably will present the Aqua version ;-)

[23:41] <mav_eric> shaunmcdonald: you're O.K. with sunday

[23:42] <grahamperrin> what's "IZ" jargon for?

[23:42] <shaunmcdonald> mav_eric: should be around, give me a few hours notice for me to prepare

[23:42] <grahamperrin> Issue Zilla?

[23:42] <ericb2> mav_eric: waiting, I'll rename the archives, and upload them on a strong server

[23:42] <mav_eric> grahamperrin: IZ is issuezilla our OOo bug tracking system

[23:42] <ericb2> grahamperrin: you won

[23:42] <ericb2> :)

[23:42] <grahamperrin> k thx

[23:42] <mav_eric> shaunmcdonald: that's fine. You have time till sunday

[23:43] <shaunmcdonald> mav_eric: if I get bored with all the other things I need to do

[23:43] * mav_eric notices that his Torrent for the Fedora 7 Beta4 or so will need another 30 Minutes - args

[23:43] <mav_eric> shaunmcdonald: so do I but thankfully we have a holiday here in germany on monday

[23:44] <mikeleib> USA has monday holiday too

[23:44] <mav_eric> that's when I will do my house work like doing the dishes, cleaning the flat etc

[23:44] <mav_eric> mikeleib: which one do you have? Memorial Day?

[23:44] <shaunmcdonald> mav_eric: we have a bank holiday on Monday, but no one is doing anything for it

[23:44] <shaunmcdonald> mav_eric: last Monday and Tuesday I was off uni due to the holiday

[23:45] <ericb2> Next meeting : Friday 1st of June , same hour ?

[23:45] <mav_eric> shaunmcdonald:  :-( That's close to impossible here in germany

[23:45] <mav_eric> ericb2: +1

[23:45] <grahamperrin> five quick questions when you're ready

[23:45] <mav_eric> next to impossible

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