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| | This is an effort to fix issue 972 | | This is an effort to fix issue 972 |
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| | + | === Introduction === |
| | First meeting : define the task | | First meeting : define the task |
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| − | Attendees: Matthias Bauer (mba) , Thomas Lange (tl ) , Eric Bachard | + | Attendees: Matthias Bauer (mba) , Thomas Lange (tl ) , Eric Bachard (ericb) |
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| − | Log :
| + | [[Education_Project/Effort/Math_baseline_alignment/1stMeeting_log]] |
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| − | [10:22] * Now talking on #ooo-math
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| − | [10:22] <ericb2> hello :)
| + | Second IRC meeting ( 19th of February) |
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| − | [10:23] <tl13> Hi!
| + | Attendees: Thomas Lange (tl), Eric Bachard (ericb) |
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| − | [10:24] <tl13> I'm going to check where Mathias is right now. ^_- | + | [[Education_Project/Effort/Math_baseline_alignment/2ndMeeting_log]] |
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| − | [10:24] <tl13> He is in his office and will join in a few minutes.
| + | Mails regarding discussion (29th Sept and on..) Important Notes and doubts |
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| − | [10:24] <ericb2> ok | + | [[Education_Project/Effort/Math_baseline_alignment/Mails]] |
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| − | [10:25] * ericb2 was drinking some coffee
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| − | [10:25] <tl13> I hoped Frank (FME) would have also some time but he is busy with different matters.
| + | === Propose a solution === |
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| − | [10:25] <ericb2> no problem
| + | The 1st meeting was productive, and we agreed on a solution. |
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| − | [10:26] <ericb2> I'm rewriting the questions I had ( my battery was empty, and the file was not saved :-/ )
| + | (complete describing the solution) |
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| − | [10:26] * mba (n=chatzill@nat/sun/x-430a0959c5d4bec1) has joined #ooo-math
| + | === Todo === |
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| − | [10:26] * tl13 gives channel operator status to ericb2 mba
| + | Draft. Please complete or correct typos, add suggestions ... etc |
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| − | [10:29] <ericb2> hello mba :)
| + | ==== Done ==== |
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| − | [10:29] <mba> hi eric!
| + | * Initial meeting |
| | + | * Choose a solution |
| | + | * Discover starmath code organisation |
| | + | * Identify all Arrange cases |
| | + | * start debugging : find interesting breakpoints |
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| − | [10:29] <ericb2> thanks to all for joining
| + | ==== Work in progress ==== |
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| − | [10:29] <ericb2> from my side I have read carefully all the comments on issue 972
| + | * understand the 27 Arrange methods, more precisely, describe what is done in every case |
| | + | * imagine scenarios for debugging |
| | + | * trace and analyze positional parameters ( work in progress ) |
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| − | [10:29] <ericb2> and things are not clear, thus I'll ask you some simple questions, to progress
| + | ==== Remaining tasks ==== |
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| − | [10:30] <ericb2> is it ok ?
| + | * identify the problem precisely for text only ( including greek letters or not) |
| | + | * propose a solution for text only |
| | + | * identify the problem for a over b |
| | + | * propose a solution for a over b |
| | + | * factorize the solution |
| | + | * prepare a new meeting |
| | + | * define the change in .odt file format |
| | + | * implement it |
| | + | * write the specs |
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| − | [10:30] <mba> Please go on.
| + | === Draft for the Planning === |
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| − | [10:30] <ericb2> ok
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| − | [10:31] <ericb2> I'm talking about equations anchored as characters, and only in this case
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| − | [10:31] <ericb2> am I right ?
| + | {| style="text-align:left; background:ivory" border="1" |
| | + | |+ Fix Equations Alignment in Math (part 1 : ''' A over B ''' ) |
| | + | |- style="background:royalblue; color:white" |
| | + | ! width="150"|Task !! week 6 !! week 7 !! week 8 !! week 9 !! week 10 !! week 11 !! Status !! Assigned to !! Comments |
| | + | |- | |
| | + | | Discover starmath ||bgcolor="#2a8ad8"| || || || || || || || || |
| | + | |- | |
| | + | | analyse the concerned code|| bgcolor="#287cc1"| ||bgcolor="#287cc1"| || bgcolor="#287cc1" | || || || || || || |
| | + | |- | |
| | + | | propose a solution for a over b || || bgcolor="#2370b0"| ||bgcolor="#2370b0"| || || || || || || |
| | + | |- | |
| | + | | first code implementation || ||bgcolor="#2370b0"| ||bgcolor="#2370b0"| ||bgcolor="#2370b0"| || || || || || |
| | + | |-| |
| | + | | mathalignment1 cws creation || || ||bgcolor="#135892"| ||bgcolor="#135892"| || || || || || |
| | + | |-| |
| | + | | QA for mathalignment1 || || || bgcolor="#135892"| ||bgcolor="#135892"| || bgcolor="#135892"| || || || || |
| | + | |-| |
| | + | | Write specs || bgcolor="#0c4676"| ||bgcolor="#0c4676"| || bgcolor="#0c4676"| ||bgcolor="#0c4676"| || bgcolor="#0c4676"| || || || || |
| | + | |} |
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| − | [10:31] <ericb2> First question : when everything is correctly aligned, does something go wrong when saving /closing and reopening | + | === [[Education_Project/Effort/Math_baseline_alignment/Discover starmath | Discover starmath source code (click me)]] === |
| − | the document ?
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| − | [10:31] <ericb2> Second question: are there differences when you open the same document in both 1.x or 2.x OpenOffice.org version ? | + | === [[Education_Project/Effort/Math_baseline_alignment/Debuging starmath | Debugging starmath using gdb (click me)]] === |
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| − | [10:32] <mba> Question zero ;-) : IIRC equations anchored *to* characters could be treated the same way
| + | === Analyse the concerned code === |
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| − | [10:32] <ericb2> mba: ok :)
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| − | [10:32] <ericb2> sorry
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| − | [10:33] <mba> First question: if implemented correctly of course nothing should go wrong. ;-)
| + | === First code implementation === |
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| − | [10:34] <mba> Second question: the compatibility issue is what caused me to propose something that does not influence the file
| + | === mathalignment cws creation === |
| − | representation
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| − | [10:35] <ericb2> mba: thus thre is one compatibility issue
| + | === Links and Documentation === |
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| − | [10:35] <mba> My proposal to always store positions "from top" (or was it bottom?) but mark this position to become realigned at
| + | ==== Page for translating Non-English comments and strings in starmath module to English ==== |
| − | runtime if necessary will guarantee that the document will at least look the same if loaded in OOo1.x
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| − | [10:36] <mba> OOo1.x will just ignore the additional flag and of course can't realign the equation. But it will show the document as it | + | [[Education_Project/Effort/Math_baseline_alignment/Translate to English | Translate Non English Comments and Strings (click me)]] |
| − | looked in OOo3
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| − | [10:36] <ericb2> mba: ok
| + | ==== starmath source code ==== |
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| − | [10:36] <ericb2> mba: my idea was a bit different, but I can be completely wrong | + | [http://eric.bachard.free.fr/Education/Documentation/starmath/Doc_Math/html/ '''Starmath source code Documentation'''] |
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| − | [10:37] <ericb2> my idea was : align correctly the equation the first time it has been written | + | [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOoAuthors_User_Manual/Writer_Guide/Math_commands_-_Reference '''Math Commands Reference'''] |
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| − | [10:38] <ericb2> Here, first time means either after the initial equation writing, or after every modification
| + | ==== starmath use ==== |
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| − | [10:38] <ericb2> like some additional treatment done at the end, when quitting the editor | + | [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOoAuthors_User_Manual/Writer_Guide/Math_Objects Math Objects] |
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| − | [10:40] <mba> So far I can't see where your idea is different to mine. | + | [http://documentation.openoffice.org/manuals/oooauthors/MathObjects.pdf MathObjects ] |
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| − | [10:40] <ericb2> good :) | + | [http://documentation.openoffice.org/manuals/oooauthors2/0111GS-GettingStartedWithMath.pdf Getting started with Math] |
| − | | + | [[Category:Education]] |
| − | [10:41] <ericb2> then, maybe you can expose everything you have in mind
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| − | [10:41] <ericb2> your vision is certainly more complete
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| − | [10:42] <mba> Basically you have described it. What we also have to decide is how we can tell OOo that a particular formula should be
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| − | "base line aligned". There are three options: do it always, have a flag per document or have a flag per formula.
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| − | [10:42] <mba> Only the latter option would force us to play tricks wrt. file format (means: have a new "alien" attribute).
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| − | [10:43] <mba> For the second option we could introduce a new document option.
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| − | [10:43] <ericb2> in the GUI ?
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| − | [10:43] <mba> The first one of course is trivial. :-)
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| − | [10:43] <ericb2> e.g. in Tools -Options ?
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| − | [10:43] <tl13> I think we should do this by default for formulas anchored 'as/to' character. Or at most on a per document case.
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| − | [10:44] <mba> Depends on the decision. Document option should be in Tools-Option, if we want to do it per formula of course we need
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| − | something in the positioning dialog.
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| − | [10:44] <ericb2> what is the "cost" in runtime ? ( in terms of proc load )
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| − | [10:44] <ericb2> mba: indeed, the positioning dialog is the best place
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| − | [10:45] <mba> I don't expect runtime problems - recalculations will be needed only if the formula or the font of the text document is
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| − | changed.
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| − | [10:46] <mba> tl13: what's your take wrt. options? Should we have a global option, a document option of a per-formula option?
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| − | [10:46] <ericb2> excuse me, phone call
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| − | [10:47] <tl13> I think per formula is flexible but not really needed basically as user I just want them to be properly aligned. Thus if optional at all I'd prefer the document wide option.
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| − | [10:48] <tl13> If we still want to provide manual alignment we could maybe just implement the feature for 'as character' and not 'to
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| − | character'.
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| − | [10:48] <tl13> Don't know if this is a bad idea though...
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| − | [10:48] <tl13> Note: We may also need a macro or sth other means to forcibly align all formulas in a document even without editing them (e.g. when the document was written in an older version of OOo)
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| − | [10:51] <mba> Good point. It should be enough to activate all formula objects, set them to "modified" and deactivate them. That should
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| − | trigger the recalculation automatically.
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| − | [10:53] * ericb2 back
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| − | [10:53] * ericb2 reads up
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| − | [10:54] <ericb2> if I read correctly, a macro could be the solution ?
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| − | [10:55] <mba> No, the macro was meant as a tool to bring the new feature to old documents
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| − | [10:56] <ericb2> ok, but the idea is align formulas without edit them, right ?
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| − | [10:56] <mba> yes
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| − | [10:56] <tl13> I just checked with User-Ex (FME) and asked if the alignment should be optional and if so should it be per document or
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| − | per object.
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| − | [10:56] <tl13> He clearly likes it to work on a per object base!
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| − | [10:57] <tl13> His argument was that later on we may use that setting for other (yet to come) objects as well.
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| − | [10:57] <mba> But for new documents you won't need the macro because OOo will automatically align.
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| − | [10:57] <mba> tl13: I think you meant FL?!
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| − | [10:57] <tl13> err yes!
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| − | [10:59] <mba> The per-formula option is fine for me - we just have to add this as an alien attribute to the object. That's not nice but
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| − | doable. Later we could also use meta data. If we are lucky, "later" is in time for OOo3.0
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| − | [11:00] <ericb2> mba: are we going to use the third case you proposed ?
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| − | [11:00] <mba> Yes, seems so.
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| − | [11:01] <ericb2> ok, then thre is no problem for me
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| − | [11:01] <mba> We don't change anything in the way the position of the formula is stored in ODF but we add a flag to it that an
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| − | application editing the document should maintain base line alignment in case the formula (or the base line of the font of the text
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| − | embedding the formula) is changed.
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| − | [11:02] <mba> If we all agree to that we can move on to planning
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| − | [11:02] <ericb2> +1 for me
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| − | [11:03] <tl13> +1
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| − | [11:03] <ericb2> first thought ... what is the 3.0 deadline ?
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| − | [11:04] <ericb2> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoRelease30
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| − | [11:04] <ericb2> looking at feature freeze, we have March 6th
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| − | [11:05] <ericb2> + specs will have to be written
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| − | [11:05] <mba> Yes, that's the current state. It is possible to ask for exceptions, I assume. So let's first try to find out what we think is
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| − | realistic.
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| − | [11:06] <ericb2> if not possible we can just try, and integrate asap. No problem for me if this is 3.1 , eg.
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| − | [11:07] <tl13> Well, that sounds more reasonable then. Thus there will be no need to hurry and we have time to let users check it out.
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| − | [11:08] <ericb2> tl13: yes, hurry is imho not good: the issue is good, and needs a real fix
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| − | [11:08] <ericb2> s/issue is good/issue is old/
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| − | [11:08] <tl13> Yes. One of the oldest I know of.
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| − | [11:10] <tl13> So where would be a good point to start?
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| − | [11:10] <mba> In general I don't have a problem with "start at anytime and integrate when it's done". But in our case it's possible that we
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| − | won't have a code line for integration between March/April and short before the release, means: for several months. This will force us to
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| − | keep the CWS open and resync it even if development is done. No show stopper for me, but I wanted to mention it.
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| − | [11:10] <ericb2> mba: good remark: cws resync is often painfull
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| − | [11:11] <ericb2> mba: well, can we propose a roadmap, and see what we all can do ?
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| − | [11:11] <mba> I see the following areas to work on:
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| − | [11:11] <mba> Implement base line calculation in Math
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| − | [11:12] <mba> Define and implement API to access the base line
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| − | [11:12] <mba> "invent" a new alignment in Writer code
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| − | [11:12] <mba> implement this alignment in the object positioning code of Writer
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| − | [11:12] <tl13> But if we start with implementing the baseline calculation in Math where it is not yet done and only change the function
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| − | in Writer to arrange the formula the resync troiuble should be very limited.
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| − | [11:13] <tl13> Do we need a new API? Will a new property not be sufficient?
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| − | [11:13] <mba> implement loading and storing of the new flag
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| − | [11:13] <mba> tl13: a property also in an API :-)
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| − | [11:13] <tl13> Err sure... But only doumentation. ^^
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| − | [11:13] <mba> Starting in Math would be fine, IMHO
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| − | [11:13] <tl13> No real API change and rebuild necesary.
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| − | [11:14] <mba> It is a well-separated code area, not too complex and the code is rarely changed.
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| − | [11:14] <tl13> Sounds reasonable. And the next change woiuld probably be the function that formats the line.
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| − | [11:14] <mba> I think a skilled developer should be able to get into that in a reasonable time frame
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| − | [11:14] <tl13> Thus we can have things working early though not yet optional.
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| − | [11:15] <ericb2> do you have some keywords, or places or class/ methods in mind ?
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| − | [11:15] <tl13> SmNode and it's derived classes. Also SmModule for the new property.
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| − | [11:16] <ericb2> tl13: ok
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| − | [11:16] <tl13> And the base class to SmNode which is SmRect
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| − | [11:16] <mba> ericb2: now the interesting part - do you know someone we can charge with implementing the base line alignment in
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| − | math?
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| − | [11:16] <mba> We can talk about the other stuff later.
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| − | [11:17] <mba> s/alignment/calculation
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| − | [11:17] <ericb2> mba: currently not. But I can start to read the code, and describe/ ask questions. My problem is not code
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| − | understanding, my problem is I'm not a designer, and I fear to not be efficient
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| − | [11:18] <ericb2> mba: e.g. with some information, like do this or that, that way, will help a lot. This is ocean of code
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| − | [11:18] <tl13> New classes should not really be necessary thus design changes are unlikely.
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| − | [11:18] <ericb2> ok
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| − | [11:19] <ericb2> then, just implement some static functions, could fit ?
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| − | [11:20] <tl13> Well... likely not static as well since the result depends upon the actual class object (the node and it's subnode).
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| − | [11:21] <tl13> Thus it will be a member function or more likely just changing existing member functions.
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| − | [11:21] <tl13> Should be the 'Arrange' function of the nodes.
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| − | [11:21] <ericb2> understood
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| − | [11:21] <tl13> That function does all alignment calculations right now.
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| − | [11:22] <ericb2> ok, then the first first thing is to understand how works this part
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| − | [11:22] <tl13> Also there should only be a limited number of nodes to look at. Just check by debugging which ones have not yet already
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| − | calculated the baseline.
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| − | [11:23] <tl13> At the very least I would expect "over" "stack" and "matrix" implementations to need changes.
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| − | [11:23] <ericb2> tl13: indeed. But let's start little
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| − | [11:23] <tl13> A list of all available constructs (commands) can be found in parse.hxx/cxx
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| − | [11:24] <tl13> Then I suggest to start with "over" as the sample case.
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| − | [11:24] <tl13> This should be the simplest of all missing cases.
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| − | [11:24] <ericb2> tl13: thanks a lot, this is extremely informative, and I'll learn the code you mentionned, as starting point
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| − | [11:25] <ericb2> I'll have to stop. Can we summarize ?
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| − | [11:25] <tl13> look for the token T_OVER in the code to find the respective node.
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| − | [11:25] <tl13> Ok
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| − | [11:25] <ericb2> tl13: thanks !
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| − | [11:26] <ericb2> I'll put the log of the meeting on the wiki. Does it make problem ?
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| − | [11:27] <tl13> Fine with me.
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| − | [11:28] <ericb2> it is ok to meet us next week, and make a point ? Say, same day, same hour, same channel ?
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| − | [11:28] <ericb2> s/it is/is it/
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| − | [11:29] <ericb2> I cannot promise, but if I can write something, this is not a problem for me to trace, and show what happens
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| − | [11:29] <ericb2> (using gdb )
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| − | [11:29] <mba> Not same day, as we will be on a business trip next friday
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| − | [11:30] <ericb2> mba: ok. do you have another one in mind or ... ?
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| − | [11:31] <tl13> BTW: If you just have questions about Math you can drop me a note anytime. And we cab talk either per mail or via IRC.
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| − | [11:32] <ericb2> tl13: good idea. Let's go that way
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| − | [11:32] <ericb2> and I'll use the issue 972 + the wiki for traces in the issue resolution | |
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| − | [11:32] <ericb2> sorry, I really must go. | |
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| − | [11:32] <tl13> Then we'll continue without a specific 'next meeting' date?
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| − | [11:32] <tl13> No problem!
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| − | [11:32] <ericb2> thanks a lot to both for your time, I konw how it is precious !
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| − | [11:33] <mba> Yes, I think that I won't be needed anyway as I don't know a lot about math. So please continue with Thomas until you
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| − | feel that we should meet again
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| − | [11:33] <tl13> Ok. FIne.
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| − | [11:33] <ericb2> ok, fine for me too
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| − | [11:33] <ericb2> bye and thanks again :-)
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| − | [11:33] <tl13> bye!
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| − | [11:34] <mba> bye
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| − | [11:34] * mba has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]")
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| − | [11:35] <tl13> Ok. I#m leaving. Bye!
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| − | [11:35] * tl13 (n=chatzill@nat/sun/x-dc19fd15307afa52) has left #ooo-math
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