User talk:Sancho

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Hi Sancho,

please do not create new pages under Kb/ but use RU/Kb/ instead as the pages are russian. see Help:Translating and Help:Page_naming for details.

--B michaelsen 22:16, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Another thing i am wondering about is the strange pagetitles (basically huge numbers) you are using. Why dont you use "speaking" pagetitles? It makes the content much easier to find.

--B michaelsen 22:25, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Pagetitles that are just numbers make it very difficult for the MediaWiki search tool to find any content unless the number is something people will search. The MediaWiki search tool searches page titles FIRST and returns the results. If it cannot find matches on Page title, then it does a best guess based on page content (and doesn't do an especially good job). Meaningful pagetitles are very important in a Wiki. So... please consider using something other than numbers. --ccornell 13:06, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

To mark pages to be deleted, add {{delete}} to the page, and it will be deleted in the routine maintenance. --ccornell 13:06, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Breadcrumbs will be added automatically if you set up your sub pages correctly. Then, you do not need to add links at the top of the page to take readers back to the parent page (I've noticed that this has been done on all the new pages I've looked at). For the breadcrumbs to work, you must make sure that there is content at each subpage level (eg there is no content at RU right now, and there should be) - any extra redirects that are in place right now may need to be fixed and cleaned up (there are redirects at RU/Kb and RU/kb pointing at RU/Knowledge_base). --ccornell 13:16, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


Hello, B michaelsen, ccornell.


Thank you for your assistance and attention to my work.

I try to fix remarks from you and follow the rules.


We are creating a new project - "The OpenOffice.org Knowledge Base”.

My activity has few goals:

  • Users do not speak English
  • For russian-speaking users use english page names for searching is impossible.
  • The URL with cyrilic symbols are showing in "percent‐encoded" form. It is very difficult to input and dictate by telephone. For telephone talk are easier say numbers then URL.


I found that the wiki url case sensitive.

URL with RU/Kb != RU/kb != Ru/kb != ru/kb != Knowledge base. But logically they are equal. So I had to make a redirects.

I have seen "Automatic Breadcrumbs".. In addition, I have adding links to missing pages in Breadcrumbs, if such links are logically related to the context.

--Sancho 2 April 2010


Hi Sancho,

thanks for your comments. However, I think that creating all the redirects will lead to a maintenance disaster. The automatic redirects created by moving pages are need because someone might have already linked to the old page. But for new pages I would prefer it if you would create just one page (either RU/kb.. or RU/Kb/..) and no redirects. Otherwise their is a high risk that other contributors start creating pages with different names so that you end up with 20 pages in RU/Kb, 14 pages in RU/kb, 2 in ru/Kb and 32 in ru/kb. Such a mess would be annoying to administer or clean up.

Have Fun,

--B michaelsen 13:45, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Thinking a bit about it, I am still unconvinced that those numbered titles are necessary. If you use cyrillic titles and add the Knowledge base ID on the top of page it is really easy to search for that ID. Here is an example:
Documentation note.png This is Kb/47114711!
Easy to find by search.

--B michaelsen 15:21, 3 April 2010 (UTC)



Hello, B michaelsen, ccornell.

Thank you for your help.

We very carefully examined your proposal. It took a long time.

Our goal - reduction of addresses transmission errors of important for user information.


Redirecting


Redirect pages are made only for two start pages of the Russian section.

Before you mark the page to delete, I check that it had no options.


URLs as nunbers


We conducted a study on all possible options for URL. We have taken all your suggestions. We reached the following conclusions.

Russian names to use inappropriate for the following reasons:

  • words and terms in the Russian language is much longer than those in English.
  • all the Russian people made spelling mistakes. This meaning of the text is not distorted. Record dictated by telephone URL without error unlikely.
  • Russian URL when converted to "percent-encoded" is longer than 6 times.
  • converted to "percent-encoded" URL totally meaningless.
    Example:
    (EN) «To enable detailed tooltips throughout the interface once and for all at once, press the key combination»
    (RU) «Чтобы включить подробные всплывающие подсказки во всём интерфейсе сразу и навсегда на один раз нажмите сочетание клавиш»
    is transformed into:
    (%%) % D0% A7% D1% 82% D0% BE% D0% B1% D1% 8B_% D0% B2% D0% BA% D0% BB% D1% 8E% D1% 87% D0% B8% D1% 82% D1 % 8C_% D0% BF% D0% BE% D0% B4% D1% 80% D0% BE% D0% B1% D0% BD% D1% 8B% D0% B5_% D0% B2% D1% 81% D0% BF % D0% BB% D1% 8B% D0% B2% D0% B0% D1% 8E% D1% 89% D0% B8% D0% B5_% D0% BF% D0% BE% D0% B4% D1% 81% D0 % BA% D0% B0% D0% B7% D0% BA% D0% B8_% D0% B2% D0% BE_% D0% B2% D1% 81% D1% 91% D0% BC_% D0% B8% D0% BD % D1% 82% D0% B5% D1% 80% D1% 84% D0% B5% D0% B9% D1% 81% D0% B5_% D1% 81% D1% 80% D0% B0% D0% B7% D1 % 83_% D0% B8_% D0% BD% D0% B0% D0% B2% D1% 81% D0% B5% D0% B3% D0% B4% D0% B0_% D0% BD% D0% B0_% D0% BE % D0% B4% D0% B8% D0% BD_% D1% 80% D0% B0% D0% B7_% D0% BD% D0% B0% D0% B6% D0% BC% D0% B8% D1% 82% D0 % B5_% D1% 81% D0% BE% D1% 87% D0% B5% D1% 82% D0% B0% D0% BD% D0% B8% D0% B5_% D0% BA% D0% BB% D0% B0 % D0% B2% D0% B8% D1% 88
  • transformed into a "percent-encoded" URL can not dictate, can not be read as a text, can not be used for reference and educational literature.

So we decided to translate the names of Russian articles in English and use the tag ((DISPLAYTITLE))

Only one subsection, "knowledge base", URL use numbers to avoid transmission errors.

URL-numbers will be collected in a separate Categories. For visual navigation to manually create the index.

We ask that you allow to continue the experiment in Russian namespace.

Respectfully Санчо 16:34, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

For example, the French also use the numbered articles in the FAQ: Category:FR/Documentation/FAQ/Base, and Category:Pt.openoffice.org --Санчо 15:25, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


Sancho, хватит уже править "правила"? Давайте обсуждать лучше в обсуждении?--Fyva 11:14, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Пожалуйста, давайте обсуждать. Все вопросы можно решить только обсуждением, а не войной, я не пони маю, почему вы игнорируете то что я пишу?--Fyva 11:26, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Please stop edit warring

Please let's talk

Thank you --Helen 17:37, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit Warring is Not Cultured

(This is directed at all participants in the edit warring currently in progress on several Russian-language pages. Users other than Sancho will be directed here.)

This is a wiki: a venue for group efforts, through consensus. No matter how much effort you put into a page or pages, you do not own them; you do not control them. As it says at the bottom of any page open for editing, "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here." Because the essence of a wiki is cooperation and politeness, it is wise (and polite) to discuss important changes on the Talk pages; that is their purpose. If someone objects to your changes, consider the changes "important", and discuss the issue on the Talk page; now that you know it's "important" to somebody else, discuss the issue before making further changes. Try to reach a consensus. Try hard.

Reverting (undoing) another contributor's edits is rude. Doing so without discussion on the Talk page is very rude, and can lead to edit wars, wherein various contributors are reverting each other's edits. This can lead to users being blocked (edit wars are forbidden) for cooling-off periods.

Please do not misuse the term, "vandalism". We do see it here, but very rarely: pages blanked, obscenities or jokes randomly inserted, and so forth. Vandals are usually banned (permanently blocked). Differences of opinion are not vandalism; calling them such is an insult, and will not be tolerated. (Personal attacks are forbidden.)

Your friendly neighborhood sysop, --TJ (Talk | Contribs) 00:33, 23 May 2010 (UTC)


TJFrazier, for a response I need some time. Please wait. --Санчо 08:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Yes, of course. We are all aware of all your hard work in this area; take what time you need. Meanwhile, please do not undo the contributions of others, without discussing it first. --TJ (Talk | Contribs) 08:48, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

RU/UA Categories

Hi Sancho, I you find me assigning pages wrongfully as Category:RU please just reassign them as Category:UA. Im sorry, I cant really tell them apart ;)

--B michaelsen 20:39, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I will do.
To distinguish between the Russian and Ukrainian. In Russian, there is no letter «i» inside words.
--Санчо 08:39, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

ES and Education template functionality

The issue between the localization of an international proyect, vs the content of a locale project. So Spanish localizations work as project/lang while ES project works as lang/pagename

Education project (if you see) uses the same convention for locales in FR, ZH, IT, etc.

Update: Also seems to be the natural way that the templateEduc works using a LANG:LANG Template. (please view source)

Thanks for your work

Ok thanks for letting e know, I'll fix it ASAP

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