ReleaseStatus Minutes 2010-04-12 IRC log

(14:57:58) Das Thema für #oooreleases ist: Release-Stauts-Meeting, every monday at 15:00 Hamburg Time (13:00 UTC in summer)
(14:58:06) ja_: Moin
(14:58:57) rosana_ardila [~rosana@nat/sun/x-woegjatuzgzwjvlq] hat den Raum betreten.
(14:59:57) rafaella [~Rafaella@nat/sun/x-imbcyjborbhrvydo] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:00:44) UweL [~chatzilla@nat/sun/x-gnmynfalzkaapjvo] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:00:51) enoki: hi
(15:01:50) kai_a [~ka@nat/sun/x-mbyxolcvkpyshmqh] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:02:01) stefan_b: Hi
(15:02:18) mdamboldt: Hi
(15:02:42) rosana_ardila: Hi
(15:02:58) rafaella: Hi
(15:03:41) mdamboldt: First topic 3.2.1 release
(15:03:42) eric_QA [~es93802@nat/sun/x-pptqxisgqlivzsmr] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:04:34) mdamboldt: Several CWS have already been nominated for the next build. The OOO320m15 is roughly scheduled for end of this week (start of build). So bits will become available mid of next week earliest.
(15:05:14) mdamboldt: A couple of stoppers have been raised on the mailing list and accepted. One is also on todays meeting agenda.
(15:05:19) mdamboldt: Issue 110769
(15:05:31) IZBot: timed out - please visit the URL yourself: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=110769
(15:05:40) _rene_: given that m14 was (newly) broken in various ways I think this is too late. but *shrugs*, I know no on will discuss that
(15:06:13) mdamboldt: The focus issue seems to be already fixed in CWS nativea according to QA.
(15:06:37) mdamboldt: So does the keyboard shortcut issue mentinioned in the agenda
(15:07:13) Stefan_W: The fixes mentioned do not address the "the same one button is always highlighted" problem
(15:08:36) mdamboldt: Stefan_W: The highlight thing is related to the selection. Travel with the tab key and you can see it moving.
(15:08:41) Stefan_W: even UX experts didn´t see that, they didn´t recognize, that this means the focus
(15:09:03) Stefan_W: it may not be a technical problem, but sure UX
(15:09:38) mdamboldt: Stefan_W: Indeed there is room for improvement here. I will contact Andreas Bartel for this again.
(15:09:46) Stefan_W: pse
(15:13:18) mdamboldt: Regarding the missing the spec, thats true. And even the final design on which the changes have been done are not public available. => I will contact corresponding people to make it available asap.
(15:13:49) eric_QA hat den Raum verlassen (quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
(15:15:17) mdamboldt: There is another item on todays agenda regarding key shortcut "Alt-Z" in German L10N CWS. Can anybody explain details here?
(15:15:22) mdamboldt: Mechtilde:?
(15:15:30) _rene_: .oO ( qed )
(15:15:40) MechtiIde: .
(15:16:28) MechtiIde: If you click Alt-Z it doesn't open an Draw document but the list with the recent documents
(15:16:44) MechtiIde: if you have the splash-screen open
(15:17:10) mdamboldt: Ah
(15:17:21) mdamboldt: Do you have an Issue ID
(15:17:39) MechtiIde: I also testet it with the latest l10n CWs Build
(15:18:04) MechtiIde: I didn't write a separate issue
(15:18:15) VolkerMe: This works here in m14 on windows.
(15:18:15) MechtiIde: if you want I will do it after the meeting
(15:18:43) ***VolkerMe did not know the base of the l10n-version
(15:18:46) eric_QA [~es93802@nat/sun/x-wgrjppljslkkjhky] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:18:49) mdamboldt: Mechilde: Thanks
(15:19:03) MechtiIde: VolkerMe, m14 and the new translation-integration
(15:20:13) VolkerMe: MechtiIde: thx
(15:20:58) mdamboldt: Further items regarding 3.2.1 releasE?
(15:21:11) _rene_: ok, can we plase (this was actually meant as resignation about people not being involved) talk about why m15 comes so late after m14 when m14 is broken in various ways?
(15:21:45) mdamboldt: _rene_: What issues exactly?
(15:21:50) _rene_: and many mwses were ready even last week
(15:22:10) _rene_: mdamboldt: the bmp/png mess, mysqlc, ...
(15:22:44) _rene_: the first one gives real headaches for people trying to build test debs out of m15
(15:22:47) _rene_: eh, m14
(15:23:34) _Nesshof_: _rene_: are they still open issues to get addressed ?
(15:23:56) _rene_: yes, that we shouldn't wait 2 weeks to get them fixed
(15:24:18) _Nesshof_: to my understanding all issues already have been resolved
(15:24:30) _Nesshof_: or are you just requesting a new milestone for this
(15:24:30) _rene_: not in a released milestone
(15:24:31) _Nesshof_: ?
(15:24:33) _rene_: only in hg
(15:24:46) _rene_: _Nesshof_: no, I request a milestone whenever it makes sense to make one
(15:25:01) _Nesshof_: ok
(15:25:05) _rene_: _Nesshof_: there were many cwses alraedy ready last week
(15:25:21) _rene_: _Nesshof_: you easily could have done one last week
(15:25:26) _rene_: now get one *next week*
(15:25:31) _rene_: 2 or even 3 weeks delay.
(15:26:20) _rene_: 3.2.1 might come too late fot Debian squeeze, but if not, I'd like to squeeeze (;)) it in. I can't if I can't properly test them
(15:26:51) _Nesshof_: yes, a bit unfortunate that the last cws for next milestone was delayed so much
(15:27:15) stefan_b: _rene_, We did not wait just for a giggle! As _rene_ wrote, "broken in various ways" - needs various fixes involving several people.
(15:27:17) _Nesshof_: from the perspective now, an intermediate m15 would have made sense, ageed
(15:27:28) stefan_b: It was _rene_ himself insisting "fix in next minor.
(15:29:42) _rene_: stefan_b: nonsense. "next minor" in "next milestone"
(15:29:52) _rene_: stefan_b: no one says this was 3 weeks
(15:30:08) _rene_: stefan_b: (I can't handle masterfixes as I just need to use proper tags)
(15:30:33) _rene_: stefan_b: and I see you didn't look last week - I did a query for cwses everyday, and there were some ready
(15:30:42) msc_sun hat den Raum verlassen
(15:31:05) _rene_: stefan_b: so your argument about various fixes and various people is wrong. the fixes I am at were even masterfixed
(15:31:13) stefan_b: So it is only about Debian release date being in danger. Got it.
(15:31:27) _rene_: no, it's about testing the stuff in danger
(15:31:47) _rene_: debian has no release date :-)
(15:32:04) _Nesshof_: rtimm: how long a immdiate build of a m15 would take ?
(15:32:09) _rene_: but we wasted 2 weeks
(15:32:11) _rene_: or even 3
(15:32:16) _rene_: without *anything*
(15:32:33) stefan_b: Yes. We were having a 3 week party doing nothing.
(15:32:53) _rene_: not in m15-wise, yes
(15:33:02) ***_Nesshof_ also thinks more frquent builds would be desirable
(15:33:13) _rene_: at least not with integrations and or milestone release
(15:33:31) _rene_: that's what you see here. I don't doubt you did fixes and QA
(15:33:42) _rene_: but what do they help if they don't reach testers soon?
(15:34:06) _rene_: anyway
(15:34:18) _rene_: will m15 be rc1, please? :)
(15:36:02) ja_: _rene_: why do you think it makes sense to tag m15 as rc1 ?
(15:36:17) MechtiIde: please not
(15:36:56) _rene_: ja_: because you wait for all issues fixed? :)
(15:37:18) _rene_: otherwise there's no reasoning for the delay we already had now with m15
(15:37:27) MechtiIde: I plead for a regular build with the l10n fixes before RC1
(15:37:47) _rene_: (yes, I know it's impossible due to m16, please buy new irony detectors)
(15:37:54) _rene_: s/m16/l10n/
(15:38:11) _rene_: (btw, the plan *was* April, 19th as rc1, btw)
(15:38:43) VolkerMe: Somebody should enhance http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoRelease321 with the tables as we had on http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoRelease32 ?
(15:39:32) MechtiIde: but I also know rafaella#s post at dev@l10n.ooo
(15:40:14) _rene_: ja_: if not, there's no reason to not have done a m15 last week with the cwws which were already longer ready then
(15:40:45) rafaella: MechtiIde, you mean the one on l10n schedule?
(15:40:49) eric_QA hat den Raum verlassen (quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
(15:41:04) MechtiIde: rafaella, yes from 9.4.11:17
(15:41:24) rafaella: ok
(15:41:39) mdamboldt: VolkerMe: yes
(15:42:21) rafaella: mdamboldt, I would like to shortly talk about the *Valencian* request, if that's the right timing...
(15:42:40) mdamboldt: rafaella: feel free...
(15:43:00) rafaella: the Catalan team has requested a Valencian build for 3.2.1 following the ISO standard: ca_xv. Please note that Alexandro, from the ES Community has requested this also by asking to use the code qvc_es, which avoids any association with Catalan.
(15:43:00) rafaella: If nobody objects, I would request to apply the ISO code ca_xv by using this issue: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=110438. As Valencian is a dialect of Catalan I would then ask Jesus Corrius (N-L of Catalan to take over the coordiantion of the Valencian projects.
(15:43:07) IZBot: issue 110438: l10n TASK UNCONFIRMED P3 Errors in valencian repository
(15:43:29) rtimm: _Nesshof_: a milestone m15 with childworkspaces available now could be finished (built & packed & uploaded) within this week
(15:43:42) _rene_: rafaella: I did, do, and will object
(15:43:55) _rene_: inevnting a locale code which is bogus does not help anyone
(15:44:10) _rene_: use standard iso codes, or don't.
(15:44:19) ja_: _rene_: I understand what you wanted to ask for: more frequent builds
(15:44:53) _rene_: yes, (and if possible more focus on 3.2.1 and not on DEV300)
(15:45:36) rafaella: _rene_ : what are your objections against CA_XV?
(15:46:54) _rene_: rafaella: XV is not Spain, and I doubt XV is "Valencia"
(15:48:17) _rene_: (ca is correct according to ISO-639, though)
(15:48:57) _rene_: the proper glibc locale for valencian is ca_ES@valencian, not some XV inventing
(15:50:02) rafaella: _rene_: CA_ES is catalan and we do already have a catalan version. But if they request a different build for this dialect, this is the way to differenciate it.
(15:50:11) MechtiIde: Wikipedia said Valencian isn't classified as an own language so there is no ISo Code available
(15:50:26) MechtiIde: s/no/no own
(15:50:29) _rene_: MechtiIde: no, wikipedia says it shares "ca"
(15:50:43) MechtiIde: yes
(15:50:44) stefan_b: Further hints in issue 99430
(15:50:45) rafaella: MechtiIde, yes, in fact Valencian is a dialect of the Catalan language
(15:50:47) _rene_: rafaella: true. I didn't suggest it being ca_ES
(15:50:50) IZBot: l10n TASK RESOLVED FIXED P3 PO repository for valencian language. http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=99430
(15:51:47) _rene_: rafaella: besides that, if you make it ca_XV, make sure the office recognizes ca_ES.*@valencia locale to change the UI to valencian
(15:51:58) _rene_: otherwise it's broken
(15:52:57) _rene_: (means: it's broken if it's only working if selected from the UI and you get catalan instead of valencian when you have es_ES.*@valencia as system locale)
(15:53:26) MechtiIde: I would prefer va_ES as a possible option
(15:54:43) rafaella: MechtiIde, Valencian is not a language and again this would some political implications
(15:55:54) rafaella: As the Catalan group is ok with ca_xv and Eike - our i18n co-lead - is also suggesting this ISO code, I would go for this.
(15:56:07) ja_: +1
(15:56:22) _rene_: yeah, let's not care about standards
(15:56:29) stefan_b: This is better discussed including Eike. Balancing between hard rules (ISO) and peoples desire is not a matter of votes rigt here.
(15:56:56) _rene_: stefan_b: oh? can I change some stuff inside ODT without getting standards approval? ;)
(15:56:57) rafaella: stefan_b, Eike has been involved in the discussion already
(15:57:22) _rene_: stefan_b: good to know (not that I want, but...)
(15:57:24) stefan_b: _rene_, I truely love your hobby to mix things up.
(15:57:25) MechtiIde: we schould do the same as with kurdish
(15:57:35) _rene_: stefan_b: no, that's the same issue. standards
(15:57:44) MechtiIde: ku_TR for the kurkish in latin spelling
(15:57:54) _rene_: MechtiIde: kudish *has* official iso codes
(15:57:57) rafaella: _rene_ which is your solution? CA_ES already exists...
(15:58:01) stefan_b: Issue 71636
(15:58:06) IZBot: l10n TASK CLOSED FIXED P3 Assign Catalan Valencian LangID and ISO mapping http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=71636
(15:58:38) _rene_: rafaella: get a proper ISO code?
(15:59:54) MechtiIde: I myseld wouldn't know in which country it will be spoken if there isn't the country code in it
(16:00:00) MechtiIde: myself
(16:00:05) _rene_: rafaella: anyway, as said, *if* you do ca_XV, please get it to work properly
(16:00:33) _rene_: (means: honouring the ca_ES*@valencia locale). otherwise be sure to get a issue from me :-)
(16:04:06) _Nesshof_: do we have an agreement now for Valencian ?
(16:05:03) rafaella: It seems that qvc_es is out of the game, right?
(16:05:19) _rene_: rafaella: that's even more nonsense. there even ca_XV is better
(16:06:07) rafaella: ca_xv is not ideal but IMHO this is the current best possible solution
(16:06:36) _Nesshof_: oliverc: have you seen http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/ReleaseStatus_Minutes#For_version_3.3 ?
(16:07:44) _Nesshof_: do we have any other topics for today ?
(16:08:14) _rene_: rafaella: you didn't tell me whether ca_ES.*@valencia works
(16:08:50) ja_: RE duties: DEV300m77 by Jens-Heiner Rechtien (hr) and OOO320_m15 by Kurt Zenker (kz)
(16:10:32) rafaella: _rene_ I doubt it, but I'll check with Eike if that's possible.
(16:10:43) oliverc: _Nesshof_: No I haven't till now, but I will discuss it with develpment
(16:11:14) _rene_: rafaella: if not, be sure you get at least a P2 from me for that. a locale in OOo which does not work is broken
(16:11:33) _rene_: and work means on Linux: get the right language for the locale
(16:12:28) rafaella: _rene_, that would not be the only P" we get from you, right?
(16:12:43) _rene_: depending on whether I find some...
(16:17:57) _Nesshof_: are we done for today ?
(16:18:01) mdamboldt: Ok, the CellWrapping item was the last on todays agenda.
(16:19:15) Fridrich: ok, so bye
(16:19:17) Fridrich: ;)
(16:19:48) mdamboldt: bye
(16:21:04) eric_QA [~es93802@nat/sun/x-tzdpzrrtpkkuoqux] hat den Raum betreten.