ReleaseStatus Minutes 2010-03-29 IRC log

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(14:56:35) Das Thema für #oooreleases ist: Release-Stauts-Meeting, every monday at 15:00 Hamburg Time (13:00 UTC in summer)
(14:56:42) ja_: Moin
(14:59:05) ml1 [~ml93712@nat/sun/x-gshypkcfotjtcvcj] hat den Raum betreten.
(14:59:09) ml1: hi
(14:59:49) mdamboldt: Hi
(15:00:18) kai_a [~Kai_Ahren@nat/sun/x-ztyizwdnravgsdkk] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:00:39) _rene_: mdamboldt: if you don't have those on your agend, I have two points.
(15:00:45) _rene_: 1. source tarball handling
(15:00:59) _rene_: 2. silent integration of mysqlconnector into OOO320
(15:01:07) _rene_: 3. native0
(15:01:12) mdamboldt: _rene_: Haven't seen it on our agenda in the Wiki.
(15:01:16) _rene_: (ok, that's three)
(15:01:18) UweL [~chatzilla@nat/sun/x-upnluqhiljoiyrdq] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:02:05) mdamboldt: OOO320m14
(15:02:13) mdamboldt: ml1: How is the upload doing?
(15:02:31) _rene_: that's the least important question
(15:02:48) ml1: mdamboldt, it's already done
(15:02:58) mdamboldt: Ok, thanks ml1
(15:03:11) mdamboldt: _rene_: Please go ahead with your items.
(15:03:31) _rene_: you should. you created the mess in 3.
(15:03:55) _rene_: (and 2. because that was inside 3.)
(15:04:05) _rene_: explanation?
(15:04:10) mdamboldt: For what ?
(15:04:37) _rene_: for doing that hughe thing partly in a milestone leading to a bugfix release
(15:04:58) _rene_: for introducing (without *any* info) two new modules of a extension into a bugfix release
(15:05:16) _rene_: (and leaving out buildfixes so it breaks for ~ anyone outside Oracle)
(15:05:37) _rene_: so we really have to go back to dark times?
(15:05:50) mdamboldt: _rene_: We have to do aquisition / branding related stuff in the next release. Yes, it's usually a bugfix only release.
(15:05:56) _rene_: mdamboldt: nonsense.
(15:06:01) _rene_: mdamboldt: I understand the branding thing
(15:06:09) _rene_: mdamboldt: that doesn't explain anything of my points
(15:06:12) mdamboldt: _rene_: The new modules weren't at least on my radar beforehand.
(15:06:19) _rene_: you missed a loads of .pngs, you didn't remove the .bmps
(15:06:36) _rene_: mdamboldt: then you didn't do sane work on your cws (or even a bit of QA)
(15:06:41) _rene_: mdamboldt: hg diff?
(15:06:59) _rene_: branding is ok, but merging the mysqlc stuff was and *is* bogus
(15:08:31) mdamboldt: _rene_: I think detailed discussion has already happened in the issue related to mysqlconnector.
(15:08:32) _rene_: no, it didn't
(15:08:32) _rene_: fs just said it was merged, yes.
(15:08:32) _rene_: why?
(15:08:32) _rene_: and why without *any* coordination?
(15:08:32) _rene_: you can't just say "someone else committed" it, you are the cws owner, sorry.
(15:08:32) mdamboldt: Yes, the .bmp / .png stuff was incomplete and broken. We are currently fixing this.
(15:08:46) _rene_: mdamboldt: you should have fixed it *before* it went in
(15:09:00) _rene_: (he QA rep didn't do his job either, but t hat's no news whatsoever)
(15:09:36) _rene_: many people outside Sun even can't handle png'ized splash
(15:09:45) mdamboldt: _rene_: I've become the CWS owner of native0 due to paper work related thins. Thats all. If you have specific questions like the mysqlconnector thing, please contact correpsonding people. Thanks.
(15:09:50) _rene_: or even if they do, I at last have converts needing adapting
(15:10:08) _rene_: mdamboldt: nonsense. isn't a cws owner not repsonsible for his cws anymore?
(15:10:48) _rene_: mdamboldt: *you* let the mysqlc stuff happen as the cws owner.
(15:11:08) _rene_: there's no business telling other people are at fault (even when they did something wrong, too)
(15:11:43) _rene_: mdamboldt: *at least* I'd have expected a info that you are going to integrate mysqlc into OOO320 so I could have prevented it from failing to build almost everywhere
(15:12:11) _rene_: (everywhere except Sun, noone outside has a internal MySQL)
(15:13:05) _rene_: and with that merge you effectively broke caolans bugfix for the connector to build sanely (with system-mysqlppconn) on i386. good thing.
(15:13:39) _rene_: again: why was mysqlc merged? if you can't answer, get someone who can here.
(15:14:07) _rene_: and again: why didn't you do BrOffice etc. *before* handing the cws over? no time? then delay it.
(15:14:43) mdamboldt: _rene_: I assume you don't own a time machine, so do I. I think it's obvious nobody has done anything wrong by intention. So I'm not willing to continue this bashing style discussion with you. I'm open to help you and others if questions arrise.
(15:14:59) _rene_: mdamboldt: I disagree
(15:15:20) mdamboldt: Any other items for todays meeting?
(15:15:31) _rene_: mdamboldt: yes, answers
(15:15:41) _rene_: mdamboldt: you didn't answer any of those questions
(15:15:55) _rene_: and unless you do, I have no trust in 3.2.1 quality at all... :(
(15:16:07) _rene_: what else did you hide from the outside?
(15:16:32) _rene_: and I don't buy the non-intentionality, sorry
(15:16:50) _rene_: whoever cross-merged mysqlnative there should have known what he did
(15:16:51) rtimm: _rene_: anything you wanted to ask for your item 1? The rest should be clear now, I think.
(15:17:06) _rene_: cross-putting a non-integrated cws into OOO320? WTF?
(15:17:24) ja_: RE duties: DEV300m76 by Vladimir Glazunov
(15:17:29) _rene_: rtimm: no,m it's not. he didn't answer and I want to know whether I should invest work into 3.2.1 or not
(15:17:45) _rene_: rtimm: currently - as said - I don't have trust in release engineering anymore
(15:18:09) rtimm: _rene_: understood. Anything else we should discuss here today?
(15:18:15) _rene_: yes, the fact
(15:18:22) _rene_: this meesting is about release status
(15:18:38) _rene_: not discussing it here just puts it somewehere non-public again
(15:18:47) rtimm: mdamboldt: I do not have other items.
(15:18:54) _rene_: ok, to 1.
(15:19:07) _rene_: ml1 exchanged the release tarball of 3.2.0? why?
(15:19:24) _rene_: this breaks everything expecting the release tarball as being final
(15:19:39) _rene_: I know of the es fix, but that was announced to result in a seconf *build*
(15:19:42) UweL: mdamboldt: nothing from my side
(15:19:48) _rene_: no one said about the release tarballs
(15:20:10) _rene_: now stuff assumes the original tarballs and fail to apply the fix if you use the "new" ones because the fix is already applied
(15:20:26) _rene_: *never* exchange already released tarballs. NEVER. (and if you do, announce that)
(15:20:38) _rene_: and best rename them (v2 or so)
(15:20:49) _rene_: ml1: hello?
(15:21:25) _rene_: please note that ml didn't even answer to my mail where I pointed that out (I was ponted to it too because I used the "original" release tarballs)
(15:22:30) mdamboldt: _rene_: It's some time ago but if I remember correct, we adjusted the source due to major L10N lacks. (...not sure...)
(15:22:45) _rene_: mdamboldt: read again
(15:22:51) _rene_: 15:18 < _rene_> I know of the es fix, but that was announced to result in a seconf *build*
(15:22:55) _rene_: mdamboldt: I said that
(15:23:10) _rene_: mdamboldt: still no reason to not rename the new tarball
(15:23:11) ml1: rene: should I upload the old one again?
(15:23:29) _rene_: IMHO yes
(15:23:32) ml1: ok
(15:23:34) _rene_: release is release.
(15:23:40) mdamboldt: _rene_: Ah! Don't remember whether and where it was announced.
(15:24:08) ml1: rene: where is the mail you said you sent to me?
(15:24:17) _rene_: in your mbox. where else?
(15:24:34) ml1: and if not, then you haven't sent it?
(15:24:50) ml1: when have you sent it?
(15:25:00) _rene_: 9.3
(15:25:24) _rene_: to your OOo address (ml@oo.o
(15:25:47) ml1: rene: my username is mla, not ml
(15:25:54) _rene_: aha.
(15:26:06) _rene_: that explains it...
(15:26:50) _KAMI_ hat den Raum verlassen (quit: Quit: Leaving.).
(15:26:54) _rene_: but what is jas address?
(15:26:58) ml1: how should be able to answer to a mail that i haven't received?
(15:27:22) _rene_: ml1: sorry for that.
(15:27:29) ml1: ok
(15:28:02) _rene_: but exchanging stuff everyone outside relies on is bound to failure. that should be a no-brainer.
(15:28:37) _rene_: why do so many people not think what their actions cause when they do it? people use the old tarball and add the es fix to it
(15:28:47) _rene_: no, that cannot be assumed, no...
(15:29:22) ml1: why adding when the new one contains it already?
(15:29:25) mdamboldt: _rene_: Communication needs to be improved in case we will run into similar situation again.
(15:31:02) mdamboldt: FYI the next OOO320 round (m15) is targeted for the week after easter holidays (cw14)
(15:31:06) _rene_: ml1: because I added them on top of the original one
(15:31:31) _rene_: the second one is not existant for people who already go the old one for the distro
(15:31:40) _rene_: (and can't properly exchange it)
(15:31:44) ml1: ok, it's indeed a problem for your build but maybe not for all
(15:32:16) _rene_: it's a problem for anyone who once mirrored the tarballs
(15:32:20) _rene_: any distro dos
(15:32:37) _rene_: either you leave that fix out -> your es localization is broken
(15:32:56) _rene_: or you update the tarball (which you eventually can't) -> patch doesn't apply
(15:33:14) _rene_: and a script just applying patches from a list can't know what is the case
(15:33:49) _rene_: mdamboldt: there must not be communication there. source tarball is to remained after the release.
(15:34:08) _rene_: mdamboldt: before the release exchaning ok (even in last minute). after release: no
(15:34:58) ml1: rene: the old src file is up, I've renamed the new one to "...rev2..."
(15:35:02) ***Fridrich remembers one python upgrade which was done also like this without much discussion and it looks like patterns are emerging
(15:35:21) _rene_: if someone requests the source of e.g. the de build, will you give out rge "rev2" then which is not-matching code?
(15:35:42) _rene_: Fridrich: to me it simply looks we fall back into dark times years ago...
(15:35:58) mdamboldt: _rene_: Well in case you have to choose between Pest and Cholera, you can pick only one.
(15:36:01) Fridrich: yep
(15:36:25) Fridrich: like between Sun and Oracle ,)
(15:36:27) Fridrich: lol
(15:36:28) _rene_: mdamboldt: pick the one you released. if you released Pest that's how it is
(15:36:42) _rene_: mdamboldt: i mean, distros already patched the "Pest" to fix the es issue
(15:36:46) mdamboldt: _rene_: And lease all ES people out?
(15:36:59) _rene_: mdamboldt: in fact, I did this in the moment we knew about it for my tree
(15:37:06) mdamboldt: _rene_: And what s about vanilla users?
(15:37:11) _rene_: mdamboldt: they should know. and if not, well, it's the released code
(15:37:20) dtardon hat den Raum verlassen (quit: Quit: this parrot is dead).
(15:37:26) _rene_: mdamboldt: either you release something or you don't
(15:38:10) _rene_: mdamboldt: and when you do, it's released.
(15:38:36) _rene_: mdamboldt: did you also release a new version for other grave bugs found after rhe release? no, you didn't.
(15:40:38) _rene_: mdamboldt: so why leaving them into the cold? ;)
(15:40:45) mdamboldt: _rene_: When looking at the whole ES story of 3.2.0 release I think there is much r�oom for improvements.
(15:41:20) mdamboldt: Are there further topics for today?
(15:41:24) _rene_: true, it's much room for improvement of release QA
(15:41:29) ja_: not from my side
(15:41:44) _rene_: that doesn't say *anything* about release tarball exchanging *after the release* though
(15:42:01) mdamboldt: Sounds like no.....
(15:42:05) _rene_: the release happened, and if there's something broken - well, then you should have done it before. or release a new version
(15:42:09) mdamboldt: So I close this meeting for today.
(15:42:11) _rene_:
(15:42:15) _rene_: or whatever :)
(15:43:09) mdamboldt: bye
(15:43:26) _rene_: (yeah, let's not answer, I know...)

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