ReleaseStatus Minutes 2009-04-06 IRC log

(14:56:39) mla: hi
(14:57:29) Stefan___b [n=Stefan@g224004001.adsl.alicedsl.de] entered the room.
(15:00:26) kai_a [n=Kai_Ahre@i577A8213.versanet.de] entered the room.
(15:00:37) kai_a left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(15:01:02) _Nesshof_: moin
(15:01:26) _Nesshof_: 3.1 release status
(15:01:31) kai_a [n=Kai_Ahre@i577A8213.versanet.de] entered the room.
(15:01:38) mdamboldt_away is now known as mdamboldt
(15:01:57) _Nesshof_: rc1 is going to get announced soon, but we already seem to consider rc2
(15:01:58) _rene_: broken. (and people want to remove a thing there since 2.0.4 with a half-baked solution instead of a correct one..)
(15:02:55) _rene_: _Nesshof_: why announcing so late? :) it was uploaded last week....
(15:03:38) UweL [n=chatzill@nat/sun/x-3a465d5b6b91420b] entered the room.
(15:03:40) _Nesshof_: _rene_: distribution towards mirror last a long time this time
(15:03:43) _rene_: .oO ( and Debian already has http://packages.debian.org/experimental/openoffice.org-core )
(15:04:01) _Nesshof_: and propagation of the bouncer links also need it time
(15:04:13) Stefan___b: Didn't Heises EARLY announcement slowed the distribution, too...? :-)
(15:04:24) mla: rene: we had to create also links for Bouncer which take time to finalize
(15:04:49) _Nesshof_: stefan_b: yes, such early announcement has is effects to distrubtion
(15:04:59) _rene_: ml1: 3 days?
(15:05:10) _Nesshof_: from the agenda: Missing Version: Solarisx86_wJRE_de ?
(15:05:16) mla: we do not work on weekends
(15:05:34) _rene_: bad.
(15:05:36) blauwal [n=jr93709@nat/sun/x-f3f52964f758f111] entered the room.
(15:05:40) mla: I now ;-)
(15:05:48) MechtiIde: _Nesshof_, yes this version wasn't available
(15:06:05) _Nesshof_: ml1: but now it is available ?
(15:06:27) MechtiIde: ml1, for RC1?
(15:06:38) _Nesshof_: I assume the same applies for the missing language packs ?
(15:07:01) MechtiIde: i tested it today morning
(15:07:02) _rene_: so noone except people following releases (and Debian people) tried rc1. and we already do rc2. good timing ;)
(15:07:04) mla: yes, some builds are missing
(15:07:12) mla: I'll investigate and fix it for RC2
(15:07:46) _Nesshof_: from the agenda issue 100851 Fontwork deadly slow
(15:07:50) IZBot: Drawing ENHANCEMENT NEW P3 Fontwork deadly slow http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100851
(15:08:05) _Nesshof_: anyone to confirm this issue ?
(15:08:10) _rene_: no, but I think that's a feature, actually :)
(15:08:41) MechtiIde: _Nesshof_, there are some messages on our Mailing list
(15:08:58) _Nesshof_: MechtiIde: releases ?
(15:09:12) MechtiIde: users@de.openoffice.org
(15:09:25) _rene_: _Nesshof_: agenda item: writer2latex and how to fix it properly and not half-baken and breaking users' expectations :)
(15:09:38) MechtiIde: Andre and some other people discussed it in IRC at weekend
(15:09:57) _rene_: _Nesshof_: /me could without a problem create a native241correct cws ;)
(15:10:04) UweL: I'am working on the releases postings
(15:10:37) Stefan___b: _rene_: _Nesshof_ already stated that he'd prefer the "licensed + included" variant.
(15:10:49) Stefan___b: _rene_: what is "correct" in this case?
(15:11:26) _Nesshof_: MechtiIde: I'm not subscribed to users@de, can you please summarize ?
(15:11:47) MechtiIde: no sorry
(15:11:56) _Nesshof_: _rene_: I'd be fine with native241correct
(15:12:07) _rene_: Stefan___b: remove writer2latex.
(15:12:14) _Nesshof_: MechtiIde: so what do you ask us to do, read users@de ?
(15:12:25) MechtiIde: no
(15:12:26) _rene_: Stefan___b: completely. not just from the installset. if t heer's license problem, it makes no sense to keep it in the source at all
(15:12:39) _rene_: Stefan___b: it is and always was a external extension anyway
(15:12:39) MechtiIde: but I didn#t know enough for a summary
(15:12:56) _rene_: Stefan___b: just got imported into 2.0.4 as a jar once, hidden in xmerge.
(15:13:11) _rene_: _Nesshof_: ok, so I merge native241 and svn rm writer2latex :)
(15:13:50) _Nesshof_: _rene_: yup
(15:13:57) MechtiIde: _Nesshof_, I think in the Issue are all informations
(15:14:04) _rene_: and you can set native241 to deleted :)
(15:14:10) _rene_: or whatever is appropriate :)
(15:14:17) _Nesshof_: MechtiIde: sorry, I messed the issue id ?
(15:14:28) MechtiIde: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100851
(15:14:34) IZBot: issue 100851: Drawing ENHANCEMENT NEW P3 Fontwork deadly slow
(15:14:49) _Nesshof_: MechtiIde: ah, now I got it
(15:16:05) _Nesshof_: MechtiIde: so your suggestion is to accept that issue as stopper ?
(15:18:47) rafaella [n=Rafaella@nat/sun/x-41feed305289d78f] entered the room.
(15:18:49) Stefan___b: I see the comment of AW in that issue and do not think that there is a quick solution.
(15:18:56) VolkerMe: From the comments in the issue I can not see if a fix is event possible
(15:19:13) VolkerMe: even
(15:20:16) _Nesshof_: kai_a: can you please get more information from aw regearding this issue ?
(15:20:30) _rene_: Stefan___b: you have the honour to QA native241correct fwiw :)
(15:21:47) Stefan___b: OK, And you want full-blown AutoTests, right? :-)
(15:22:07) _rene_: no.
(15:22:26) Stefan___b: But what about the amount of code change?
(15:22:29) _Nesshof_: since rc1 is not finally released yet, we will wait until next Tuesday for the rc2 build
(15:22:32) MechtiIde: I can't jugde it. IMO it is not good to have such a regression
(15:22:56) _Nesshof_: so earlierst possible release would be April 23rd
(15:24:00) rtimm: that would give us easter holidays to collect people's feedback. Sounds good.
(15:24:04) _rene_: Stefan___b: there actually are none if you don't register w2l
(15:24:40) _rene_: Stefan___b: at least no big ones. I was just objecting against your statement that removing something from the installset half-baked is OK :)
(15:25:20) _rene_: Stefan___b: 3.1 is already a bad release, let's not make it worse by doing half-baked stuff :) (but honsestly, I am not surprised)
(15:25:32) Stefan___b: _rene_: Ageed. I tend to focus on what I install only. But I will get RelEngs to assist for QA for that W2L cleanup.
(15:25:38) Stefan___b: ...agreed...
(15:25:57) kai_a: _Nesshof_: sure, I can. This issue will definitely be adressed within our current performance improvement issues.
(15:28:00) Stefan___b: Depending on the amound of THIS or THAT hardware "out there", it makes more or less sense to deactivate it by default (let those in need find where to get it)
(15:28:38) Stefan___b: ...or the other way round: let those with performance problems figure out how to switch it off...
(15:28:54) _rene_: first one would be better.
(15:29:06) _rene_: people who "need" fontwork get what want ;)
(15:29:25) Stefan___b: I believe the latter makes sense in this case.
(15:29:43) _rene_: Stefan___b: no, that will cause loads of bugreports wrt this)
(15:29:51) Stefan___b: Because as far as I get it, Anti-Aliasing is not reduced for fontwork use... It is everywhere in the office.
(15:30:09) _rene_: ah, it's AA? ok.. then it does make sense.
(15:30:57) _Nesshof_: grmmmpf
(15:31:07) kai_a: rene: I don't agree with you. People don't look actively for special switches, so I think most users won't use it in any case. The other way round, people try to find a solution and will find the switch soon
(15:31:24) _rene_: kai_a: well, I assumed it only affected FW
(15:31:38) Stefan___b: kai_a: +1 FAQs and WIKIs are read by those in pain :-)
(15:31:44) _rene_: kai_a: in that case, I insidt on my point. people using FW get what they want to get
(15:32:02) _rene_: kai_a: as stefan_b now says it's a AA problem globally I agree with you and him :)
(15:33:17) Stefan___b: Note that "llooking at the office" is done by around 100% of all users! (Beside its develoers :-)
(15:33:22) Stefan___b: But Fontwork use... Maybe 6% users?
(15:33:59) Stefan___b: So not too many run into this while all others do NOT see the advantages AW built in. THat is MY made-up statistic here.
(15:34:34) kai_a: Stefan___b: I think we already agreed on the final solution (let it as is, but try to optimize performance)
(15:34:36) VolkerMe: But AA has been announced as improvement already
(15:35:06) Stefan___b: kai_a: sounds good.
(15:35:16) _Nesshof_: kai_a: what is the effort to fix that isses
(15:35:41) _Nesshof_: s/isses/issue
(15:36:22) kai_a: _Nesshof_: definitely not adressable for 3.1 anymore, I'm quite sure. 3.2 might work
(15:37:55) MechtiIde: kai_a, mabe 3.1.1?
(15:38:28) MechtiIde: for the Draw Problem?
(15:38:46) _Nesshof_: kai_a: that was not my question, you don't know about the actual release dates
(15:39:32) _Nesshof_: kai_a: let's clarify this offline, we will post result of discussion on releases
(15:40:12) _Nesshof_: blauwal: RE duties ?
(15:40:49) blauwal: OOO310: Kurt
(15:40:55) blauwal: DEV300: Ivo
(15:42:15) _Nesshof_: any other topic for today ?
(15:42:17) UweL: Andrea asked for issue 68302 on releases
(15:42:26) IZBot: framework FEATURE NEW P3 Add a "License" item to Help menu http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=68302
(15:42:52) _Nesshof_: UweL: will read and answer this on the list
(15:43:11) UweL: ok
(15:43:33) _rene_: _Nesshof_: but we should mention w2l removal is the Release Notes...
(15:43:49) _Nesshof_: but as I understand, this is translation relevant and the issue is there for years, so hard to see this as stopper for 3.1
(15:44:00) _Nesshof_: _rene_: yes
(15:44:07) _rene_: _Nesshof_: (or somewhere prominently)
(15:44:32) _Nesshof_: ok, by
(15:44:33) Stefan___b: _Nesshof_, _rene_: What about the option to get the correct License for W2L?
(15:45:10) _rene_: Stefan___b: well, why keep it in the source if it's a externally-developed extension after all?
(15:45:33) _rene_: Stefan___b: and because it#s a extension you don't need it for anything else in OOos code. so...
(15:45:34) Stefan___b: _rene_: I am not talking bits in trees but features that users can use.
(15:45:44) _rene_: they can install the extension :-)
(15:46:14) _rene_: (besides that, I think that the whole reason why we do that is bogus, but....)
(15:46:45) _rene_: the upgrade reason is none - if people shoot into their foot when upgrading to a beta of w2l, how is that OOos fault.
(15:47:14) _rene_: for the license: that's not my decision,, and how would you fix the license? the license afair is LGPL correctly, just not SCAed...
(15:47:24) _rene_: .oO ( deja-vu )
(15:48:18) Stefan___b: _rene_: please note that Henrik has removed W2L 1.0 Beta from Ext Repos.
(15:48:36) Stefan___b: And put 0.5.0.2 there. Did not test it.
(15:49:38) mla: bye