ReleaseStatus Minutes 2008-07-21 IRC log

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(14:59:55) ja_: hi
(14:59:55) paveljanik: Hi
(15:00:03) sophi: Hi all
(15:00:55) calc: hello everyone :)
(15:01:11) rtimm [] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:01:39) blauwal [] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:02:19) UweL: Nesshof is on vacation today, do we have urgent problems?
(15:02:58) UweL: I think issue 88888 looks good so far
(15:03:05) IZBot: tools TASK NEW P3 OOo 3.0 release stoppers
(15:03:33) MechtiIde: What are the next steps?
(15:03:38) _rene_: except the usual ones like the OpenOffice3 alias not working and the alias problems with swext+al not solved I don't currently remember one :)
(15:03:43) paveljanik: depends on the "urgent" ;-)
(15:03:57) ja_: Are there new stoppers to discuss ?
(15:03:58) paveljanik: #i91907#
(15:04:02) MechtiIde: When do you plan the branch?
(15:04:07) IZBot: framework DEFECT NEW P3 "Spelling and Grammar" text in the toolbar instead of icon
(15:04:11) paveljanik: missing images in help etc.
(15:04:15) MechtiIde: When do you plan to integrate localisation29
(15:04:52) MechtiIde: Problems under Vista with special Charakters in file name
(15:05:13) UweL: do we have all supposed stoppers attached to 88888?
(15:05:13) MechtiIde: a gression against 2.4.1 may be. some tests still neede
(15:05:19) MechtiIde: needed
(15:05:36) ja_: Mechtilde: do you have an issue number ?
(15:05:55) MechtiIde: ja_, not now
(15:06:11) MechtiIde: because it is not enough reproducable
(15:06:39) UweL: we already have a special character problem attached to 88888
(15:06:50) MechtiIde: ja_, we have too less tester using Vista
(15:07:06) MechtiIde: UweL, do you have a number?
(15:07:34) UweL: issue 89095
(15:07:36) ja_: _rene_: as far as I understood Martin Hollmichel the OpenOffice3 alias will be created when the release branch has been created for the 3.0 release
(15:07:41) IZBot: framework DEFECT STARTED P2 OOo 3.0 beta (German distribution) does not recognize umlaut vowels in path
(15:07:51) _rene_: ja_: the alias is already there and broken
(15:07:59) _rene_: ja_: and people try to use it
(15:08:40) stefan_b: I regard issue 91907 a show stopper. set regression keyword and link to 88888.
(15:08:45) IZBot: framework DEFECT NEW P3 "Spelling and Grammar" text in the toolbar instead of icon
(15:08:50) ja_: _rene_: from my knowledge the OpenOffice2 alias is still in use
(15:09:02) _rene_: that doesn't prevent users trying OpenOffice3
(15:10:28) paveljanik: stefan_b: thanks.
(15:12:38) UweL: So are there more "urgent" iisues with 3.0? ;-)
(15:12:51) rtimm: _rene_: yes, it was a bad idea to create that alias such early and than not keep it working. Better would have been to wait until it's 'final'
(15:13:16) MechtiIde: UweL, we don't know if there are worse issues with localisation
(15:13:30) ja_: rtimm: I'm the same opinion...
(15:13:36) rtimm: But I doubt complaining will help here. Especially as Nesshof is not present.
(15:14:06) paveljanik: ad localization...
(15:14:12) paveljanik: m?? brought several new strings...
(15:14:15) paveljanik: m26
(15:14:36) paveljanik: we have to provide some time to translators to translate.
(15:14:52) ja_: as long as OpenOffice3 alias is not announced to be officially supported I'll ceckout the source tarballs from the OpenOffice2 CVS alias
(15:14:58) paveljanik: can anyone bring coni here?
(15:16:26) paveljanik: how will we handle new strings at all?
(15:16:43) paveljanik: there is no new merge round announced, so...
(15:17:07) ***ja_ has asked Raphaella to join this discussion
(15:17:14) paveljanik: ja_: thank you
(15:17:25) Fridrich heißt jetzt TrainedMonkey
(15:17:40) khirano [] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:18:00) rafaella [n=chatzill@nat/sun/x-6b3821ec5765476a] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:18:07) paveljanik: md is not here as well?
(15:18:11) paveljanik: rafaella: Hi
(15:18:25) paveljanik: rafaella: m26 brought several new strings
(15:18:30) rafaella: hi paveljanik, all
(15:18:33) paveljanik: <paveljanik> how will we handle new strings at all?
(15:18:34) paveljanik: <paveljanik> there is no new merge round announced, so...
(15:18:54) rtimm: paveljanik: AFAIK Ivo is just collecting those new strings
(15:18:59) rafaella: ok. I know and the situation is not a pleasant one at all...
(15:19:30) paveljanik: so the plan is to create an issue for them?
(15:19:38) paveljanik: and merge only them, right?
(15:19:54) rafaella: paveljanik: the plan is to schedule a new translation deadine
(15:20:11) paveljanik: This is very inefficient for translators, because they have to work in two modes - normal and someone-did-a-mistake-so-hurry-up
(15:20:34) rafaella: paveljanik: what do you suggest?
(15:21:01) paveljanik: rafaella: exactly what you said - new trans. deadline. People will submit their final GSI, complete one.
(15:21:17) paveljanik: with fixes from pevious rounds etc.
(15:21:21) paveljanik: ..r...
(15:21:34) paveljanik: This is the way people used to work.
(15:21:43) rafaella: paveljanik: ok so the message in between about inefficiency was not for me....
(15:21:59) paveljanik: rafaella: nono
(15:22:19) paveljanik: rafaella: if there is a new issue to translate 26 new strings, this is a problem...
(15:22:40) UweL: Lets pick on Nesshof, he is not here :-)
(15:22:44) paveljanik: but if we announce new merge round, this is the way people used to work.
(15:22:48) rafaella: paveljanik: I agree and I DON'T WANT issues to get translations...
(15:23:03) paveljanik: rafaella: yes :-)
(15:23:10) rafaella: Nesshof knows about this
(15:23:24) ***paveljanik notice that he agreed with rafaella :-))
(15:23:40) paveljanik: rtimm: so why is Ivo collecting them?
(15:24:07) rafaella: paveljanik: nesshof knows very well that it is a real nightmare to translate via issues ...
(15:25:02) rtimm: First, in order to see what was going on on that CWS. He knew about some of those, but apparently there were more than he expected.
(15:25:04) paveljanik: ja_: is md available instead of Nesshof?
(15:25:04) rafaella: What about setting the new translation deadline in 2 weeks? I think that this would give enough time to the teams to complete translation
(15:25:20) paveljanik: 2 weeks?
(15:25:39) paveljanik: I think it is too long time and could delay the release...
(15:25:42) rtimm: I do not know what he than plans to do with his list.
(15:25:44) rafaella: paveljanik: approx 2 weeks from now ...
(15:26:24) rafaella: August 7th
(15:26:25) sophi: paveljanik: the most important for is to have a weekend within the dead line
(15:26:48) rafaella: I suggest August 7th as translation deadline for 3.0 final
(15:26:55) mdamboldt [] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:26:59) paveljanik: sophi: yes, Monday next week is acceptable for me from both positions (l10n/re)
(15:27:02) rafaella: Any objections?
(15:27:15) paveljanik: <rafaella> I suggest August 7th as translation deadline for 3.0 final
(15:27:16) mdamboldt: Hi, sorry I'm very short in time right now.
(15:27:16) mdamboldt: Anything I can help with?
(15:27:33) paveljanik: mdamboldt: See pasted proposal from rafaella.
(15:28:00) stefan_b: paveljanik, that was BEFORE MD entered :-)
(15:28:06) paveljanik: I think 28.7. is better
(15:28:26) paveljanik: stefan_b: yup, that's why I pasted it again for him:
(15:28:31) paveljanik: <paveljanik> <rafaella> I suggest August 7th as translation deadline for 3.0 final
(15:29:00) stefan_b: paveljanik, OK...
(15:29:08) ja_: Nesshof is not in the office but he'll be back tomorrow. I propose to clarify this off-list by tomorrow with Martin
(15:29:28) rafaella: paveljanik: I am afraid that July 28th it will be too short time.
(15:29:58) stefan_b: paveljanik, can you name a "suspect" fpr the vanished Spell icon? So far, you named files in 91907 only...
(15:29:59) paveljanik: ja_: ok
(15:30:07) mdamboldt: Well I'm wondering about the new CWS's which contain furth string changes at all
(15:30:07) mdamboldt: But I would need to look into the details of the corresponding CWS's and reasons.
(15:30:07) mdamboldt: A new general translation deadline sounds like a big thing.....
(15:30:19) stefan_b: paveljanik, maybe later...
(15:30:26) mdamboldt: Please give me some time to look into the details of those string changes we now stumbled over....
(15:31:06) rafaella: mdamboldt: yes, a new translation deadline is necessary because after m23 translation relevant strings kept been integrated
(15:32:12) mdamboldt: rafaella: m23 is long time ago and I would believe that Nesshof had a plan on how to proceed with those new strings, but I can't remember talking with him about this....
(15:33:10) rafaella: mdamboldt: yes and the plan IS to schedule as new transaltion deadline
(15:33:53) rafaella: mdamboldt: there is no worse thing that a partial translation of single modules containing single strings...
(15:34:09) paveljanik: rafaella: but in the meantime, can m26 be used as a base
(15:34:20) paveljanik: and then we can announce the date later/tomorrow...
(15:34:48) rafaella: paveljanik: yes, we can confirm August 7th with Nesshof tomorrow
(15:35:05) mdamboldt: rafaella: In point of view to RC date on 15th Aug, a translation deadline of 7th Aug sounds to late to me.
(15:35:54) rafaella: mdamboldt: I cannot do miracles. We has everything translated by July 4th as scheduled. Not my fault
(15:36:20) paveljanik: lets wait with the date for mh...
(15:36:43) UweL: +
(15:36:52) paveljanik: but in general, I think we should set some rule like:
(15:37:04) rafaella: mdamboldt: to have 250 words translated after July 4th it took me 1 week to get all strings back and in the end they were not even correctly integrated into localisation 29
(15:37:17) paveljanik: new string in the source -> translators have at least one week to translate and provide GSI back.
(15:37:42) mdamboldt: rafaella: I'm not expecting miracles but realistic planning. I've no issue with the fact you need time, but I see the RC on risk if the date would be left untouched..
(15:38:00) rafaella: then the RC needs to be postponed
(15:38:42) UweL: I think it would be easier to remember the rules we already have :-(
(15:39:02) mdamboldt: Ok, lets get the whole picture toghether with mh and decide than....
(15:39:32) paveljanik: UweL: definitely
(15:39:44) MechtiIde: mdamboldt, It is not a good idea to integrate the last translation into a RC
(15:39:45) paveljanik: UweL: but sometimes, ... ;-)
(15:41:28) UweL: paveljanik: ... you have to pull the trigger :-)
(15:41:47) paveljanik: any other topics for today?
(15:42:39) UweL: not from my side, but please attach all stoppers to 88888
(15:43:14) paveljanik: do you consider missing images in help page as stoppers?
(15:43:42) UweL: not shure right now...
(15:44:09) rafaella: paveljanik: for me in a final version images should be there...
(15:45:22) paveljanik: #i91913#
(15:45:28) IZBot: documentation DEFECT REOPENED P3 Missing image: sc05539.png
(15:45:45) stefan_b: For me, in a final version, all issues should be fixed. What was the decade for the next RC? :-)
(15:45:59) stefan_b: ...sorry, just kidding :-)
(15:46:42) paveljanik: #i91905#
(15:46:47) IZBot: documentation DEFECT RESOLVED FIXED P3 Opening documents: missing icon
(15:47:11) paveljanik: please ignore the resolutions of these issues 8)
(15:49:40) rafaella: paveljanik: there is no target set...
(15:50:29) stefan_b: paveljanik, rafaella: Those issues need regression keyword. Target to be decided maybe along with the other things by tomorrow.
(15:50:49) stefan_b: Comment of HJS (AUse) tells there might be "more icons missing..." :-(
(15:51:56) stefan_b: Fixing things is good, but for making things worse there is no time.
(15:52:53) stefan_b: Thus I think we need further analys from RelEng concerning the vanishing icons before deciding target.
(15:53:51) UweL: +1 for a product with icons :-)
(15:54:21) rtimm: stefan_b: I think RE cannot do more analysis than what ause wrote in 91913
(15:55:13) stefan_b: rtimm, then who? I would simply read throughout the help and look for things that are missing. I believe there is easier ways to find "systematic problems".
(15:55:46) stefan_b: rtimm, OK, maybe not RelEng, but somehow based on Auses comment. OK?
(15:56:06) rtimm: Someone who knows whether that image really is need in help ("if it is still needed in help, it should be moved to default_images/res/helpimg") or not.
(15:56:27) MechtiIde: i#91913
(15:56:56) rtimm: In the 'current help CWS' ufi replaced sc05539.png with some other image. So, is staht what to do here?
(15:57:06) MechtiIde: issue 91913
(15:57:12) IZBot: documentation DEFECT REOPENED P3 Missing image: sc05539.png
(15:58:05) sophi: paveljanik: did you notice also the help page about direct cursor has no icon?
(15:58:15) paveljanik: sophi: yes, this is already fixed.
(15:58:22) paveljanik: sophi: reload that page and enjoy ;-)
(15:58:23) sophi: paveljanik: ok, thanks
(15:58:37) paveljanik: #i90395#
(15:58:38) sophi: paveljanik: ah yes :)
(15:58:45) IZBot: documentation DEFECT RESOLVED FIXED P3 Help: Icon sc_switchcontroldesignmode.png not visible in help
(15:59:21) paveljanik: sophi: and no, I do not know every help page ;-)
(15:59:45) sophi: paveljanik: ah, I thought so ;-)
(16:00:43) rtimm: paveljanik: that's a pity, it could help here :-)
(16:01:10) paveljanik: rtimm: ;-)))
(16:05:53) paveljanik: anything else for today?
(16:06:04) UweL: no
(16:06:17) ja_: RE duties ?
(16:06:40) ja_: Uploads will be done this week by Marcus Lange (mla)
(16:06:55) rtimm: ja_: Oliver (obo)
(16:06:55) MechtiIde: what can we expect?
(16:07:07) MechtiIde: rtimm, which version?
(16:07:10) MechtiIde: m26?
(16:07:45) rtimm: MechtiIde: DEV300 m26 is finished
(16:07:51) ja_: m26 is already finished and Marcus is working on uploading the bits
(16:07:55) rtimm: So I'd expect a m27
(16:08:07) ja_: :)
(16:08:11) MechtiIde: rtimm, with localisation29?
(16:08:25) rtimm: No idea about what Nesshof plans regarding branching off OOO300
(16:08:49) MechtiIde: rtimm, m27 containing localisation29?
(16:09:19) rtimm: MechtiIde: localisation29 had some problems (not everything merged out from database or so). Next try is running, Ivo currently builds it.
(16:09:37) rafaella: MechtiIde: no, as announced to the l10n list, we had some problems...
(16:10:00) rtimm: So, EIS state is not really correct. It was not 'ready for QA' during the last days, perhaps now it is again.
(16:10:02) rafaella: there will be new l10n CWS builds
(16:10:12) MechtiIde: and the CWS build was only for few plattforms
(16:10:13) paveljanik: in the meantime I did a quick scan of missing images in help pages...
(16:10:14) sophi: MechtiIde: we had until the 29th to upload our corrections also
(16:10:37) stefan_b: paveljanik, shall we make bets?
(16:10:45) stefan_b: 20?
(16:10:50) UweL: 26
(16:11:19) paveljanik: ;-)
(16:11:26) MechtiIde: there are some Sun-plattforms missing
(16:11:40) paveljanik: anyone else with bets? ;-)
(16:11:44) paveljanik: 3
(16:11:45) paveljanik: 2
(16:11:46) paveljanik: 1
(16:11:52) paveljanik: there are four images.
(16:12:05) paveljanik: two were already found manually.
(16:12:15) rafaella: MechtiIde: which platforms were missing?
(16:12:26) MechtiIde: 64 bit and Mac/Intel
(16:12:37) MechtiIde: and also DEBs for an easier installing
(16:13:14) stefan_b: paveljanik, what about a collective issue for those 4? Not one-issue-per-icon.
(16:13:20) MechtiIde: The CWS build has only Win and Linux/RPM beside the solaris build
(16:13:32) rafaella: MechtiIde: regarding the DEB I am really not sure when release engineering can start applying the proposal but may be rtimm knows about this?
(16:13:44) MechtiIde: and Linux/RPM is only 32-bit, rafaella
(16:13:49) paveljanik: stefan_b: yes, #i91913#
(16:13:56) IZBot: documentation DEFECT REOPENED P3 Missing image: sc05539.png
(16:14:18) rtimm: rafaella: Thorsten Ziehm's proposal? I do not know who is working on that.
(16:14:22) MechtiIde: rafaella, Sun released DEBS since one year
(16:14:52) rafaella: rtimm: is it possible to get the platforms MechtiIde is referring to?
(16:14:53) MechtiIde: and Thorsten Ziem said he need more time for preparation his idea
(16:15:16) MechtiIde: rafaella, I'm speaking of the CWS build
(16:15:25) rtimm: MechtiIde: Thorsten proposed to change the default for CWS builds to build tar.gz install sets instead of rpm or deb.
(16:15:26) rafaella: MechtiIde: yes, me too
(16:15:58) MechtiIde: rafaella, the bigger problem is not to have 64 bit build and the Mac/Intel build
(16:16:13) rtimm: What do you need 64 bit builds for?
(16:16:17) rafaella: MechtiIde: so which is the requirement?
(16:16:26) rafaella: for CWS l10n builds?
(16:16:39) MechtiIde: Ok to convert RPM to DEB is not so a problem
(16:16:59) MechtiIde: but the tester fhaving a 64 bit maschine can only test 64 bit
(16:17:18) MechtiIde: and tester with a Mac/Intel only this builds
(16:17:22) rtimm: I guess Ivo could do a mac build, too. But 64 bit ...
(16:17:28) rafaella: MechtiIde: so what do you miss to test CWS l10n builds? What shall we provide?
(16:17:59) MechtiIde: rafaella, I put together in German
(16:18:16) MechtiIde: DEBs sind nicht ganz so wichtig
(16:18:32) MechtiIde: wichtiger ist Linux 64 bit und MC/Intel
(16:18:33) stefan_b: rafaella, MechtiIde, Is this the correct arena to discuss CWS builds?
(16:18:52) stefan_b: 16:19...
(16:18:56) thorstenziehm [n=chatzill@nat/sun/x-9c4523405ec9d7d9] hat den Raum betreten.
(16:19:46) rafaella: stefan_b: ok .... an arena for bets then....
(16:19:53) stefan_b: ;-)
(16:21:04) rafaella: MechtiIde: ok. I will ask Ivo if he can still provide Linux 64 and MC/Intel ... not sure the building process is already running
(16:21:23) rtimm: I'm afrai we currently can not provide 64 bit CWS builds regularely. Sometimes, exceptionally, may be. Bot not regularly.
(16:21:32) rtimm: s/Bot/But/
(16:21:50) MechtiIde: rtimm, are you planned to release 64 bit?
(16:21:59) MechtiIde: with 3.0?
(16:22:36) rafaella: rtimm: l10n CWS builds are not provided regularly .. so this may be the exception
(16:22:39) rtimm: Ask Nesshof. Or mdamboldt or ja_ At the moment we haven't got the hardware to do so.
(16:23:12) rtimm: rafaella: depends on what other builds have to run. We'll see.
(16:23:45) UweL: Ok folks, we discussed the release, we discussed the status: We did a "release status meeting", great!
(16:24:03) UweL: I think we are done, I have to leave now
(16:24:10) rtimm: ;-)
(16:24:15) thorstenziehm: Mechtilde : The provided platforms which are released by Sun is only changed for MAC all other platforms are the same.
(16:24:52) MechtiIde: the same of what? thorstenziehm
(16:25:02) thorstenziehm: as in 2.4.1
(16:25:11) _rene_: that means they con't care about 64 bit
(16:26:09) rtimm: _rene_: we regularely build it to avoid build breakers. I would not call that 'don't care'. We just do not release it.
(16:26:25) rtimm: _rene_: It's simply e service for people like you.
(16:26:35) rtimm: You're welcome :-)
(16:26:54) MechtiIde: rtimm, that is not the content of the blog
(16:27:00) _rene_: well, currently I am nore thinking from users' perspective
(16:27:16) MechtiIde: _rene_, ACK
(16:27:26) _rene_: you are still. years after 64bit is mainstream, them in the cold
(16:27:36) _rene_: s/them/leaving them/
(16:28:13) _rene_: and don't come with "you can install 32bit OOo there". won't work in many cases.
(16:28:57) rtimm: It's not my field of decision, I won't discuss that here. Just told you current state.
(16:29:16) thorstenziehm: _rene_ : if you want to change something, this chat isn't the right place now.
(16:29:36) MechtiIde: thorstenziehm, where is the right place?
(16:29:38) _rene_: rtimm: but you will provide vista 64bit? ;-)
(16:29:47) _rene_: what is the difference there?
(16:29:58) rtimm: _rene_: Will I?
(16:30:16) MechtiIde: _rene_, whre do you get this info?
(16:30:16) _rene_: or solaris 64bit?
(16:30:30) _rene_: MechtiIde: from Sun people actively doing stuff on it...
(16:30:35) thorstenziehm: Mechtilde : Go on the releases list and asked for more support on 64bit support.
(16:30:51) UweL hat den Raum verlassen (quit: "ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]").
(16:31:06) thorstenziehm: _rene_ : I never heard of this.
(16:31:36) thorstenziehm: Solaris 64bit -> yes, Vista -> no
(16:31:47) _rene_: aha. so solaris 64bit then
(16:31:56) _rene_: why solaris 64 bit and not linux 64 bit?
(16:32:04) paveljanik: ?
(16:32:13) paveljanik: I think it is all about hardware.
(16:32:24) paveljanik: I do not see anything strange in it.
(16:32:31) _rene_: sun produces 64bit machines. they have enough hardware :)
(16:32:43) _rene_: sorry, no argument at all
(16:32:54) paveljanik: yes, it is called intra-company accounting ;-)
(16:33:14) paveljanik: it is harder to get something from the other unit in a company than from someone else ;-)
(16:33:42) rtimm: Perhaps solaris 64bit would replace 32 bit, it would not be an additional platform. There are no real 32 bit solaris sparc systems around, I guess.
(16:34:05) rtimm: In contrast to linux x86 ...
(16:34:17) paveljanik: this is the longest RE meeting we ever had.
(16:34:20) paveljanik: ;-)
(16:34:28) rtimm: but, as I said: I'm the wrong person to discuss that. Sorry.
(16:34:45) rtimm: Bye, see you next week.
(16:34:54) stefan_b: bye
(16:34:55) rtimm hat den Raum verlassen
(16:35:09) ja_: ok...bye

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