ODF Toolkit/Minutes/2008 09

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2008/09/19

<Malte> AGENDA:
<Malte> 1 Status of the Teams
<Malte> 1.1 UNO based Toolkit: Juergen (jsc), Jirong
<Malte> 1.2 Modularization, SW: Andreas (amaOOo), LiuTao, lijian
<Malte> 1.3 AODL: Lars (lb),liuyuhua
<Malte> 1.4 ODFDOM/ODF4J: Svante, Christank (cl), Klemens, duyunfen, Amit (amitksaha)
<Malte> 2 Open discussions
<Malte> .
<Malte> 1.1 UNO based Toolkit: Juergen (jsc), Jirong
<Malte> .
<Malte> .
<Malte> 1.2 Modularization, SW: Andreas (amaOOo), LiuTao, lijian
<Malte> .
<amaOOo> No news
<amaOOo> .
<Malte> .
<Malte> 1.3 AODL: Lars (lb),liuyuhua
<Malte> .
<larsb_> no news ....
<larsb_> .
<Malte> .
<Malte> 1.4 ODFDOM/ODF4J: Svante, Christank (cl), Klemens, duyunfen, Amit (amitksaha)
<Malte> .
<duyunfen> I'm using odfdom to implement some application.and I had spent time to learn XSLT
<duyunfen> and Relaxing.
<duyunfen> .
<cl> Klemens: did svante do the release yesterday?
<larsb_> yes ...
<Klemens> yes, and he posted quite a long change log on the mailing list
Svante (n=Svante@p4FDDEF4A.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #odftoolkit
DL (n=chatzill@nat/sun/x-fccb481b238c8f71) has joined #odftoolkit
<Klemens> mostly changes of cl
<Malte> So now Svante can speak for himself ;)
<Svante> Good morning
<cl> I just wondered but I also see the mail now
<Svante> Did the mail not appeared?
<Klemens> i see it
<Svante> I uploaded a new ODFDOM version yesterday
<Svante> Christian was so kind to summarize our progress, which I copied into that mail
<Malte> .
<Malte> Open discussions now, if really needed...
<Malte> .
<Svante> For the next week, Klemens and I will add templates and all ODF 1.1 mimetypes
<Svante> .
<Svante> ok.
<Malte> Seems we are done...
<duyunfen> I think codegen was very succinct and lucid. Why xslt was no longer used, is there any other reason?
<Svante> It was nice to have HashMaps in Java
<Svante> XSLT is completly recursive and hard to debug
<duyunfen> yes
<Svante> Another reason is that ODFDOM is a Java project
<Svante> And bringing in XSLT just added a new complexity for the developer
<duyunfen> I see
<Svante> Finally, it turned out, that it was easier for us to continue with Java
<larsb_> we also think it would be too complicated to understand and to support if the project is growing
<Svante> I have the feeling that in some final tweaking (complex handling) XSLT becomes very naughty.. ;-)
<larsb_> +1
<Svante> But I still like XSLT, it was just harder to read for Java developers. Java code is easier to understand, more verbose, than those recursive structures
<Svante> I think this should answer your question, Duyunfen.. :-)
<duyunfen> :)yes,Thanks.
<duyunfen> Svante:I have another question.
<duyunfen> I'd like some information about how is the process of odfdom. Is the ongoing work
<duyunfen> optimization? Is there any progress on the convinient layer? Did the code I submitted
<duyunfen> before about form transplant from odf4j have some value in practical work? Is there
<duyunfen> anything I can do during this period?
<duyunfen> I'm at a loss.
<Svante> Sure..
<Svante> First towards the process...
<Svante> We will focus on the base layers first, the various DOMs of the ODF files as CL has explained
<Svante> The package layer optimization, that the MIME type is correctly written in the package and that all the document types of ODF can be used.
<Svante> To summarize we have to bring in the basics, were other can build on.
<Svante> The next step (0.8 ODFDOM) is for us to get ODF 1.2 supported
<Svante> OpenOffice.org 3.0 is about to be published and it's default format is ODF 1.2, so we have to hurry with that
<duyunfen> yeath, I understand.
<Svante> If there is progress on the convenient layer it has not that priority to us..
<Svante> Due to the problems mentioned above, nevertheless...
<cl> Actually there is also progress in the convinient layer, just check the release mail from svante
<duyunfen> ok, I have seen it.
<Svante> Duyunfen, as soon form elements are avaible (they are now) your code can be based upon the XML DOM layer..
<Svante> Do you work with netbeans and mercurial as versioning system, Duyunfen?
<duyunfen> yes
<Svante> Second..
<Svante> You might migrate your changes from ODF4J to ODFDOM and sent a patch to the list..
<duyunfen> Should i modified the finished form code mentioned above upon the new version?
<Svante> Yes that would be my suggestion...
<duyunfen> ok
<Svante> But we will upload a new version before next Friday, were you can base your patch on..
<Svante> There is a little problem with this version, it does not have a /.hg directory. ;-)
<duyunfen> 0_6_13 version?
<Svante> yep
<Svante> But nevermind, you might already start working
<duyunfen> Yeah
<duyunfen> When I finished
<Svante> And later copy your files into the new version or the new /.hg directory into the old.
<duyunfen> Should I submitted to the mailing list?
<Svante> This or you might use and issuezilla tracker bug and sent that link
<Svante> This or you might use an issuezilla tracker bug and sent that link
<Svante> to the list
<duyunfen> ok
<Svante> There should be already bug component for odftoolkit with subcomponent odfdom
<Svante> If not protest on the list ;-)
<duyunfen> :)sure


2008/09/26

<Malte> AGENDA:
<Malte> 1 Status of the Teams
<Malte> 1.1 UNO based Toolkit: Juergen (jsc), Jirong
<Malte> 1.2 Modularization, SW: Andreas (amaOOo), LiuTao, lijian
<Malte> 1.3 AODL: Lars (lb),liuyuhua
<Malte> 1.4 ODFDOM/ODF4J: Svante, Christank (cl), Klemens, duyunfen, Amit (amitksaha)
<Malte> 2 Open discussions
<Malte> .
<Malte> 1.1 UNO based Toolkit: Juergen (jsc), Jirong
<Malte> .
<Malte> .
<Malte> 1.2 Modularization, SW: Andreas (amaOOo), LiuTao, lijian
<Malte> .
<amaOOo> No news
<amaOOo> .
<Malte> 1.3 AODL: Lars (lb),liuyuhua
<Malte> .
<larsb_> no news
<larsb_> .
<Malte> .
<Malte> 1.4 ODFDOM/ODF4J: Svante, Christank (cl), Klemens, duyunfen, Amit (amitksaha)
<Malte> .
<Svante> Progress on ODFDOM:
<Svante> There has been tremendous progress in ODFDOM, unfortunately for you it has not passed our review phase.
<Svante> I guess it is my fault, as I am currently a little picky during review, the sources require JavaDoc, tests, etc..
<Svante> - We have embedded ODF objects, allowing an OdfDocument to contain multiple other ODF documents
<Svante> - Styles being edited in ODFDOM
<Svante> - All ODF xml files (content.xml, styles.xml, settings.xml, meta.xml) available as DOM
<Svante> Next steps with large benefit:
<Svante> - Templates will be enabled and all documents aside of Formula, as a MathML 2 DOM support is not given yet.
<Svante> - Refactoring ODFDOMCodeGenerator, separate common used parts for other languages into own projects
<Svante> - Testing ODFDOMCodeGenerator with a different language than Java (to proof usability)
<Svante> .
<Svante> *hmm* Does not look as good as in my editor..
<Svante> .
<Malte> duyunfen: Anything from your side?
<Svante> I assume not, he did not responded earlier..
<duyunfen> no news
<Svante> ups!
<Svante> :-)
<Svante> .
<Malte> OK, open discussion then, if needed...
<Svante> Duyunfen: Do you got any questions, suggestions, anything you like to discuss?
<duyunfen> sorry .
<Svante> No problem
<Svante> So there is nothing to discuss for today, Malte.
<Svante> Till next week, guys!
<Malte> Ok, good bye then.... :)

2008/09/05

#odftoolkit
Hi all!
<fme>
 Hi all.
<Svante>
 I guess we can start..
<Svante>
 AGENDA:
<Svante>
 1 Status of the Teams
<Svante>
 1.1 UNO based Toolkit: Juergen (jsc), Jirong
<Svante>
 1.2 Modularization, SW: Andreas (amaOOo), LiuTao, lijian
<Svante>
 1.3 AODL: Lars (lb),liuyuhua
<Svante>
 1.4 ODFDOM/ODF4J: Svante, Christank (cl), Klemens, duyunfen, Amit (amitksaha)
<Svante>
 2 Open discussions
xiuzhi (n=Administ@218.249.75.106) has joined #odftoolkit
<Svante>
 ..
<Svante>
 1.1 UNO based Toolkit: Juergen (jsc), Jirong
<Svante>
 I guess we can skip this as they are not present..
<Svante>
 .
<Svante>
 1.2 Modularization, SW: Andreas (amaOOo), LiuTao, lijian
CWS swrefactor071015 has been resynced to DEV300m30.
Linux and Solaris builds are ready, smoketest ran successfully.
Windows non-pro build is done, pro build is still ongoing.
I will ask our QA to have a look at the CWS when all installation sets are ready.
.
<Svante>
 1.3 AODL: Lars (lb),liuyuhua
<Svante>
 Lars is still on his vacation. We will skip this as well.. :-)
<Svante>
 .
<Svante>
 1.4 ODFDOM/ODF4J: Svante, Christank (cl), Klemens, duyunfen, Amit (amitksaha)
<Svante>
 We uploaded a version yesterday.
<Svante>
 And we can explain later in discussions..
<Svante>
 Regarding ODFDOM. Duyunfen, anything for ODF4J?
no news from me.
<Svante>
 okay
<Svante>
 2 Open discussions
I had downloaded the new version and had a look.Although it is just a interim
version, I had got an idea of the improvements of new mechanism. I think it was very cool and exciting. I hadn't fathom it but I will.
<Svante>
 ups.. okay!
<Svante>
 Let's start discussions! Any further questions?
I have not been very familiar with XSLT and RELAX_NG.but It aroused my great interest.I want to In-depth study on them.:)
<Svante>
 Well, now it is even easier, it is written in Java..
<Svante>
 Able to be debug with your JavaIDE used for ODFDOM.
<Svante>
 Regarding the API changes of ODFDOM..
<Svante>
 One mayor API change in ODFDOM was the separation of Package and DOM Layer..
<Svante>
 The Package Layer does not know anything about ODF elements nor the ODF files..
<Svante>
 In ODF 1.2 the package will be a splitted specification of its own..
<Svante>
 Therefore convenient content.xml access has been moved from OdfPackage to OdfDocument..
<Svante>
 I forgot to write this yesterday.
<Svante>
 .
<Svante>
 Nothing more from my side. Any further comments, yet?
<Svante>
 There they were.. our productive 5 minutes ;-)
Not from me only that I started with the insertion/access of embedded objects (e.g. charts)
.
<Svante>
 If there is nothing else, I will see you all next week!
<Svante>
 Have a nice week-end!
<Svante>
 byebye
Goodbye
byebye
<--|
 amaOOo has left #odftoolkit
byebye
Anybody interested in a non-ODFDOM related question?
<Svante>
 Go ahead..
<Svante>
 BTW I will upload the IRC protocol at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/ODF_Toolkit/Minutes/2008_09
What's Sun's deal with the ODF plugin for MS Office, I have no experience with it at all but I was in a meeting at some organization and they were quite dissatisfied with Sun's tactics (e.g. support contracts). Any inside knowledge?
<Svante>
 Dieter, this might be a question for you?
Geographic location here is The Netherlands if that matters anything.
<Svante>
 He does not seem to have highlight enabled, give me a second..
<JZA>
 Brucevdk: just to make sure, they were disatisfied with the tactics or with the quality of the ODF plugin?
<JZA>
 Brucevdk: I have been asking around any QA testing on the ODF plugin but most people dont even use MSO anymore :-)
We're running some project in the Netherlands but never heard that there are some issues around the support model
JZA: in this case the problem they indicated was mostly with Sun's pricing and the inflexibility of the contract.
<JZA>
 Brucevdk: I see
The Sun ODF Plugin for MS Office is for free but if you need support, you have to have a support contract with Sun
<JZA>
 thanks guys, very informative gotta get some sleep now.
<JZA>
 DieterLoeschky: is ODF Plugin open source?
<JZA>
 is it based at any point with ODFDOM?
<JZA>
 or ODF4J source
It's based on OOo but it's not open sourced yet
<JZA>
 DieterLoeschky: ok thanks. Also from opendocument fellowship there has been a lot of discussion on support for ODF 2.0 and 1.1. How compliant is ODFDOM with these versions?
<Svante>
 That's for me
<JZA>
 take care Svante
<Svante>
 ODFDOM is ODF 1.1 compliant
<JZA>
 ok thanks
<Svante>
 But we plan to become ODF 1.2 compliant
<JZA>
 c ya guys
<Svante>
 cya
|<--
 JZA has left freenode ("Ex-Chat")
Brucevdk: could you give us more details on why the support model is not flexible enough?
DieterLoeschky: it was a side track to the meeting and I was only there as an observer so I didn't ask any questions to clarify. Sorry.
Ok, thanks.
DieterLoeschky: the fact that the plugin is still proprietary, coupled with some of the and then this discussion about inflexibility and pricing (it was basically that this support contract would lock them into Sun as much as they were alreayd locked into MS)
just made me feel icky
Brucevdk: Ok, I see!
bye!
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