Log Mac meeting 27th October 2006
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Oct 27 22:02:01 ericb2 Can we start the meeting ?
Oct 27 22:02:28 ericb2 the agenda is shorter today. Only 3 points scheduled
Oct 27 22:02:43 paveljanik ok
Oct 27 22:02:57 ericb2 Point 1 Welcome new devs /Aqua News
Oct 27 22:03:12 ericb2 new people joining the port around ?
Oct 27 22:05:03 ericb2 ok, last news from Aqua port. Pavel ?
Oct 27 22:06:11 ericb2 no news ?
Oct 27 22:06:31 ericb2 ybart: biiiip ?
Oct 27 22:06:49 mav_eric yes
Oct 27 22:08:30 ericb2 well I'll tlak for ybart , not yet here : Yvan started the native priting stuff. This is an enormous work, and I hope he will find help from OpenOffi.org people
Oct 27 22:08:36 ericb2 OpenOffice.org
Oct 27 22:11:49 shaunmcdonald ericb2: from here ybart looks like he is away
Oct 27 22:12:25 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: hello Shaun. Yes, looks like
Oct 27 22:12:46 ericb2 but I have some news, and I'll continue
Oct 27 22:14:05 ericb2 for native port, the two bugs (redrawing and fonts ) are still here. I'll try to work on the fonts part next week (I'm on hollidays)
Oct 27 22:14:57 ericb2 if there is no other news about Aqua port, I propose to talk about the Point 2 : Summary about native controls implementation
Oct 27 22:15:53 ericb2 I have restarted to work seriously on native controls since ~10 days
Oct 27 22:16:41 ericb2 My first results were, 10 days ago : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/aqua_native_controls_15_10_2006/
Oct 27 22:16:53 shaunmcdonald ericb2: great on you go, I'm sure anyone who isn't here will catch up through the meeting logs
Oct 27 22:16:53 shaunmcdonald ericb2: lucky you for the holidays ;-)
Oct 27 22:17:34 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I'm glad to have -at least- found time to continue to work seriously on the port ;-)
Oct 27 22:18:23 ericb2 as you can see on the first screenshots (15 Oct ), several points : pushbuttons are correctly resized.
Oct 27 22:18:30 shaunmcdonald ericb2: it probably won't be until December till I will have some more time than the odd bit here and there
Oct 27 22:19:07 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: we all do our best, and I perfectly understand people can't be here every days
Oct 27 22:19:26 shaunmcdonald ericb2: http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/aqua_native_controls_15_10_2006/aqua_native_controls_15_10_2006-Pages/Image2.html is showing up the redraw/shadow issue
Oct 27 22:20:37 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: indeed. Pierre started the work, and I found what didn't work. It was simply a division without cast, and resizing/positionning needs integers
Oct 27 22:20:47 shaunmcdonald ericb2: I had a similar issue some time ago in Java due to repeatedly redrawing the same button in the same place without clearing the screen first
Oct 27 22:21:18 ericb2 a second important part was the scrollbar. Still one bug is remaining. Work in propgress
Oct 27 22:21:27 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes, same issue here
Oct 27 22:22:09 shaunmcdonald ericb2: it has something to do with the shadow being transparent too
Oct 27 22:22:10 ericb2 it is important to note , that native controls are now correctly translated, and work like real
Oct 27 22:22:55 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: maybe the "pulsing" effect should work. I maybe found how to trest
Oct 27 22:22:57 ericb2 test
Oct 27 22:23:19 ericb2 on this screenshot : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/aqua_native_controls_15_10_2006/aqua_native_controls_15_10_2006-Pages/Image8.html
Oct 27 22:23:58 ericb2 you can see the tab pane is not yet native (it should be part of the popup button. Not fixed yet, I'm searching how to draw it
Oct 27 22:24:38 ericb2 there is an alpha issue too : the pink in the check boxes is not normal :-)
Oct 27 22:24:59 ericb2 the next one : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/aqua_native_controls_15_10_2006/aqua_native_controls_15_10_2006-Pages/Image9.html
Oct 27 22:25:29 ericb2 the first spinbuttons, not correctly translated. This is fixed
Oct 27 22:26:12 ericb2 what is not fixed with spinbuttons is vcl area under the control. (I'll show that later)
Oct 27 22:26:36 ericb2 the next shot : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/aqua_native_controls_15_10_2006/aqua_native_controls_15_10_2006-Pages/Image10.html
Oct 27 22:27:07 ericb2 one tab, not native, with white background
Oct 27 22:27:19 ericb2 on top, bewel buttons
Oct 27 22:27:22 ericb2 bevel
Oct 27 22:27:43 shaunmcdonald ah the wee triangle bit on the right
Oct 27 22:27:43 shaunmcdonald since the button is meant to produce a pop-up menu
Oct 27 22:27:43 * kaib has quit ()
Oct 27 22:27:43 paveljanik ericb2: I have the same problem in native menus...
Oct 27 22:27:43 shaunmcdonald ericb2: yeah thought the pink was just to bring your attention to the checkboxes ;-)
Oct 27 22:27:43 shaunmcdonald ah the spinners
Oct 27 22:27:43 shaunmcdonald the ooo open dialog
Oct 27 22:27:43 shaunmcdonald ericb2: bevel buttons are what we are looking for there
Oct 27 22:27:57 shaunmcdonald ericb2: until we go native with this dialog
Oct 27 22:28:25 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I think I know what do with bevel + popup menus
Oct 27 22:29:04 ericb2 @all : sorry, I think I -again- have connectivity problems, and exceuse me if I don' tanswer you "synchronously"
Oct 27 22:32:09 ericb2 spinbuttons, witout native background, and with correct positionning (needs some work) :
Oct 27 22:32:12 ericb2 
Oct 27 22:32:32 ericb2 the blue light around is now fixed
Oct 27 22:32:59 ericb2 another test (uggly) using another type of buttons : 
Oct 27 22:33:53 shaunmcdonald ericb2: I don't see any issue here with regard to connectivity :-)
Oct 27 22:33:53 shaunmcdonald ericb2: neat
Oct 27 22:33:53 shaunmcdonald ericb2: the first lot were better
Oct 27 22:34:15 ericb2 since yesterday, I have resized the popup buttons : 
Oct 27 22:35:01 ericb2 there is another issue with vcl controls: the resizing does not work as expected, and will certainly need more work
Oct 27 22:35:02 shaunmcdonald ericb2: best I've seen so far
Oct 27 22:35:29 ericb2 all around, there is the (white here) shadow of vcl controls (square )
Oct 27 22:36:06 ericb2 text can be repositionned using getNativeControl()
Oct 27 22:37:22 ericb2 othr progress made yesterday : 
Oct 27 22:37:43 ericb2 I can draw tabs, but not yet repaint them correctly
Oct 27 22:38:25 ericb2 and today, I have tested my first Aqua part on tab panes : 
Oct 27 22:38:33 shaunmcdonald ericb2: is it nit just on the right hand side, I don't see the white on the left of the pop-up menus?
Oct 27 22:38:33 shaunmcdonald s/nit/not
Oct 27 22:39:21 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: no, when you resize the window, there is a black shadow all around. I don't understand, the vcl and aqua controls do have exactly the same size
Oct 27 22:39:27 ericb2 ?
Oct 27 22:39:49 ericb2 Stephan Schaefer contacted me yesterday, and I think I'll ask him zillions of questions ;-)
Oct 27 22:40:33 shaunmcdonald ericb2: there is something not quite right with that button ;-)
Oct 27 22:41:29 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: the problem is the immensity of the doc. If someone could give me some functions names, I'll save a lot of time : I have to test every, and this is extremely long.
Oct 27 22:42:04 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: and Apple documentation is not verbose for this part. We even are close from the "dark" side ... :-/
Oct 27 22:42:55 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I only use recent API , means HI* first, and Appearance secondly
Oct 27 22:43:31 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: the bubble effect is probably caused by the pan tab type, itself "bubble like"
Oct 27 22:43:37 ericb2 pane tab
Oct 27 22:44:01 shaunmcdonald ericb2: some day I'll get into the code, probably should sooner rather than later
Oct 27 22:44:37 ericb2 sorry I forgot: my current salnativewidget.cxx file is here http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/patches/controls/salnativewidgets.cxx
Oct 27 22:45:01 ericb2 for the one interested in help me
Oct 27 22:45:50 ericb2 that's all for native controls summary :-)
Oct 27 22:46:08 mav_eric Sounds good to me and looks good too.
Oct 27 22:46:09 ericb2 next objective :draw white aqua theme on windows and tab panes
Oct 27 22:47:01 ericb2 I couldn't work more, because of my job, but I'm lucky, I got a complete week in front of me to continue :-)
Oct 27 22:47:45 ericb2 what is important:I'llneed testers, to verify every point in Aqua Human Interface Guidelines
Oct 27 22:48:17 ericb2 and I just hope someone will work soon on redrawing issue, really poisoning us
Oct 27 22:48:43 ericb2 mav_eric: I'll open the door ;-)
Oct 27 22:50:13 * dave_largo (n=drichard@64-132-254-105.static.twtelecom.net) has joined #ooo_macport
Oct 27 22:51:03 ericb2 questions about my summary ?
Oct 27 22:53:08 ericb2 the last libvcl are available for download, for the one interested to test on Intel
Oct 27 22:53:20 ericb2 no question ?
Oct 27 22:53:29 shaunmcdonald ericb2: is it too soon to start on Aqua HIG?
Oct 27 22:53:55 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: no. I discoverd this will help for the code design
Oct 27 22:55:38 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: e.g. buttons positionning is extremely important, text areas locations ..etc a lot of details doing everything
Oct 27 22:56:23 ericb2 can we continue with Point 3 ?
Oct 27 22:56:58 shaunmcdonald ericb2: great
Oct 27 22:56:59 shaunmcdonald ericb2: even more reading for me :-/
Oct 27 22:57:23 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: do you have the OSXHIG pdf ?
Oct 27 22:57:44 shaunmcdonald I usually look at the HTML version
Oct 27 22:58:09 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: got the pdf -> can read it with network connection
Oct 27 22:59:20 shaunmcdonald has it as part of the XCode documentation so can read it off-line, without a network connection :-)
Oct 27 22:59:32 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: he he
Oct 27 23:00:14 ericb2 Point 3 ?
Oct 27 23:00:42 shaunmcdonald X11 issues (second part)
Oct 27 23:01:04 ericb2 yes
Oct 27 23:01:33 ericb2 last week , I was extremely late for the meeting, and I couldn't discuss too much
Oct 27 23:02:14 ericb2 currently, I have 60 issues assigned to me. This is too much, I don't have the skills to fix them, and I 'd prefer concentrate me on native port
Oct 27 23:03:09 ericb2 for all these reasons, I proposed to ask (sorry, I didn't) martin hollmichel to attribute issues to a dedicated user , and we could forward the mail to mac@porting
Oct 27 23:03:41 ericb2 this way, we would have more transparency, and people could propose to fix issues the think they are able to fix
Oct 27 23:04:19 shaunmcdonald Point 3 : X11 issues (second part)
Oct 27 23:04:19 * jamesmckenzie (n=jamesmck@032-411-882.area5.spcsdns.net) has joined #ooo_macport
Oct 27 23:04:19 cloph building with bash breaks in desktop..
Oct 27 23:06:21 ericb2 cloph: I'm not sure I know how to extract all issues assigned to me, could you help me, providing us an URL ? This way, the list could appear in the log
Oct 27 23:07:23 jamesmckenzie erib2: ping
Oct 27 23:07:23 cloph issue 70900
Oct 27 23:07:23 IZBot tools DEFECT NEW building with bash fails in desktop/macosx http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=70900
Oct 27 23:07:23 cloph and is not parallel-build save either (issue 70958)
Oct 27 23:07:23 jamesmckenzie cloph: Ouch! I would rather not have to build in TCSH.
Oct 27 23:07:23 cloph Apart from that, the quickstart-thing broke the build from m187 upwards
Oct 27 23:07:23 cloph not "in tcsh" or "in bash", but let the build-system use bash
Oct 27 23:07:23 cloph Starting the build from within bash is fine, what matters is what dmake uses
Oct 27 23:07:23 cloph (the quickstarter issue is issue 70539 - only hits you if you don't disable gtk explicitly)
Oct 27 23:07:23 IZBot framework DEFECT RESOLVED FIXED build of m187 breaks in sfx2 (because or requirement for libegg) http:// qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=70539
Oct 27 23:07:23 jamesmckenzie cloph: I think that dmake could use BASH for a while, now it cannot use it.
Oct 27 23:07:23 jamesmckenzie cloph: That was a question, not a comment...Sorry.
Oct 27 23:07:23 cloph jamesmckenzie: The problem with using tcsh for the build is that tcsh just tends to just freeze/hang sometimes. And this is very problematic for tinderbox
Oct 27 23:07:23 cloph jamesmckenzie: Yes, dmake can use bash, and desktop is the only module where it breaks when using bash (and only on mac, linux is fine with it)
Oct 27 23:07:32 cloph ericb2: Just use a query with the field "assigned to: ericb"
Oct 27 23:07:56 ericb2 cloph: I found .. more than 60
Oct 27 23:10:58 jamesmckenzie cloph: I will use one word to describe this: UGLY. It should not matter which shell you are in while building. I used to build using Pavel's build system and it worked very fine in BASH. I don't like TCSH for a variety of reasons.
Oct 27 23:10:58 cloph It doesn't matter what shell you are in.
Oct 27 23:10:58 jamesmckenzie ericb2: Are we on schedule for the meeting this week?
Oct 27 23:10:58 cloph It matters what shell you tell dmake/the build-system to use
Oct 27 23:10:58 cloph If you don't use --with-use-shell=bash on configure, the build system will use tcsh
Oct 27 23:10:58 cloph And that often just hangs.
Oct 27 23:10:58 jamesmckenzie cloph: Correct about the shell for dmake. And you pointed out another reason that I don't like TCSH.
Oct 27 23:11:00 jamesmckenzie cloph: Hanging builds are not good. Of course, taking two to three days to build is not good either when it hangs fifteen minutes from the end.
Oct 27 23:11:32 cloph Yes. And that's why I want to use bash instead.
Oct 27 23:11:47 ericb2 I don't know why, but systematically, I have connectivity problems with meetings. Could this be a joke or .. ?
Oct 27 23:13:46 ericb2 can we continue ?
Oct 27 23:14:10 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: the meeting is started since ~1h14
Oct 27 23:15:39 cloph And apart from that little break in desktop (that can be "workarounded") using bash works quite fine (the build did never just hung again)
Oct 27 23:15:39 cloph ericb2: I can still read you..
Oct 27 23:15:39 jamesmckenzie ericb2: You may need to exorcise your system...Other than that, it is strange that this happens.
Oct 27 23:15:39 * dave_largo has quit ("Client exiting")
Oct 27 23:16:04 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: I think I'll use a tunnel on another machine
Oct 27 23:16:07 jamesmckenzie ericb2: Go ahead. I'm late again....
Oct 27 23:16:29 ericb2 ok, Who here is willing to take over some issues assigned to me ?
Oct 27 23:16:54 ericb2 I repeat, 60 issues is too much, and I don't have the skill
Oct 27 23:19:25 ericb2 cloph: for issue 70958 , I'd suggest to ask ause or caolan
Oct 27 23:20:53 paveljanik ericb2: send an IZ link with all of them in the URL (12345+23456+....) so people can review them.
Oct 27 23:20:53 jamesmckenzie ericb2: I will look at them. I have very little programming skills, but I'm sure that some of them are not verified.
Oct 27 23:20:53 IZBot porting DEFECT NEW building desktop with bash is not parallel-build safe (MAXPROCESS) http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/ show_bug.cgi?id=70958
Oct 27 23:22:01 ericb2 paveljanik: I'm probably dumb, I only can get 90 issues, while My Issues gives me 60 ?
Oct 27 23:24:07 ericb2 sh... The string is not a legal date. ???
Oct 27 23:25:48 cloph ericb2: "My issues" lists those you have reported as well.
Oct 27 23:25:48 cloph And if you changed your prefs, it might also show those you're on cc
Oct 27 23:25:48 cloph And the default my issues query doesn't include "Resolved" issues
Oct 27 23:27:24 ericb2 cloph: don't know what happens, but I cant obtain the list. I'm logged on, but .. nothin g works
Oct 27 23:27:58 ericb2 what I don't understand is why systematically I have problems "while" the mettings
Oct 27 23:28:03 ericb2 never before, never after
Oct 27 23:28:06 ericb2 shit
Oct 27 23:28:52 ericb2 since at least 4 weeks
Oct 27 23:30:53 cloph What list? The regular query or "My issues"?
Oct 27 23:30:53 IZBot http://tinyurl.com/ycs7tj
Oct 27 23:30:53 cloph Can you open that URL?
Oct 27 23:30:53 cloph This is a non-optimized URL for assigned-to ericb with the default status (everything but verified or fixed and not task)
Oct 27 23:30:53 cloph you could strip out the empty parameters to make the original URL shorter...
Oct 27 23:31:57 paveljanik ericb2: get a list of issue IDs in the text file. Go to EIS and show issues added to some CWS. Copy the URL and replace the list of issue IDs in that ilnk with the list of your own issues. Send that link to the list.
Oct 27 23:33:11 ericb2 paveljanik: yes, I think I'll do that. Thanks for the tip
Oct 27 23:34:01 ericb2 can we now discuss about Misc questions ?
Oct 27 23:36:41 ericb2 First, about Mac porters meeting : 9th and 10th december is not possible (for family meeting reason, I can't attend) , and the final date will be 2nd and 3rd december.
Oct 27 23:36:49 ericb2 is there any objection ?
Oct 27 23:37:43 paveljanik I think this should go to the list instead so everyone is notified.
Oct 27 23:38:06 ericb2 paveljanik: I'll send a mail, but I wanted to discuss first.
Oct 27 23:38:42 paveljanik I do nto have a problem with it.
Oct 27 23:39:15 ericb2 ok
Oct 27 23:40:09 ericb2 for the meeting, I'll propose a workshop about native controls: If all controls are working, we will do code review, else, we will tryto complete
Oct 27 23:41:46 ericb2 other suggestions: keyboard implementation, drawing design, native fonts implementation
Oct 27 23:46:55 ericb2 Questions for next meetings ?
Oct 27 23:51:03 jamesmckenzie ericb2: None, but I will try to be on-time next week.
Oct 27 23:51:53 ericb2 Next meeting, same hour. Friday 3rd December
Oct 27 23:52:12 paveljanik ericb2: Nov?
Oct 27 23:52:22 ericb2 paveljanik: yes :-)
Oct 27 23:52:30 ericb2 Next meeting, same hour. Friday 3rd November
Oct 27 23:53:14 jamesmckenzie ericb2: 20:00 UTC (GMT)?
Oct 27 23:54:00 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: yes, it is. In France we will change for Winter hour, but UTC doesn't change
Oct 27 23:54:31 * shaunmcdonald yeah clocks fall back an hour on Sunday morning!
Oct 27 23:54:34 jamesmckenzie ericb2: So it will be one hour earlier for you after this weekend?
Oct 27 23:54:43 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: yes
Oct 27 23:54:46 ericb2 it will
Oct 27 23:54:57 shaunmcdonald or one hour later for you jamesmckenzie
Oct 27 23:56:01 jamesmckenzie shaunmcdonald: I'm glad I don't have to play with this issue. Arizona does not participate in Daylight Savings. Thus we will go from the American Pacific time to American Mountain time, but we don't touch our clocks.
Oct 27 23:56:21 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: :-)
Oct 27 23:56:39 shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: I don't understand
Oct 27 23:57:01 ericb2 ok, see you soon. with more news would be great ;-)
Oct 27 23:57:11 * ericb2 will post the log now
