Log Mac meeting 24th November 2006

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Nov 24 22:21:55 paveljanik so let's start the meeting?

Nov 24 22:22:04 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: thank you

Nov 24 22:22:06 ericb2 yes

Nov 24 22:22:30 ericb2 Point 1: Welcome new devs /Aqua News

Nov 24 22:22:59 ericb2 a new dev contacted us, via Martin Hollmichell

Nov 24 22:23:21 ericb2 his name is Florian Rueckert (if I'm not wrong )

Nov 24 22:23:36 ericb2 he wrote me he will come on IRC, maybe later

Nov 24 22:23:53 ericb2 I have no news for aqua version

Nov 24 22:25:22 ericb2 Point 2 ?

Nov 24 22:25:34 ericb2 Point 2: Ability to build ooo Aqua, such that it runs out of the box (Shaun)

Nov 24 22:25:50 shaunmcdonald ah yes

Nov 24 22:26:31 shaunmcdonald Currently with the X11 version ooo will build an install disc image that will be installable and workable for an end user

Nov 24 22:27:00 shaunmcdonald this currently is not the case with Aqua as a script needs to be run once ooo is installed

Nov 24 22:27:20 shaunmcdonald I would like to see this script to be run prior to the packaging process

Nov 24 22:27:49 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I think it shoould be possible to not run this script at all

Nov 24 22:28:07 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: what has to be modified is located into scp2 and desktop

Nov 24 22:28:19 tino ericb2: Whatever is begun in anger ends in shame. Benjamin Franklin

Nov 24 22:28:24 tino Sorry!

Nov 24 22:29:00 shaunmcdonald that way we can automate the process of build ooo aqua to give an end user an install disc that will allow ooo aqua to be installed and used via a double click on the .app icon to start

Nov 24 22:29:16 * ericb2 searching Pavel's script

Nov 24 22:29:26 shaunmcdonald how we produce the end result, doesn't really matter

Nov 24 22:29:52 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: better do clean work

Nov 24 22:30:27 shaunmcdonald if another method is better, then go for it and do a different way

Nov 24 22:30:40 shaunmcdonald all I'm worried about is the end result

Nov 24 22:31:05 ericb2 got it

Nov 24 22:31:17 shaunmcdonald the bit in the middle of how we get there is not important as long as it does the job

Nov 24 22:31:28 shaunmcdonald if it does the job well, then even better

Nov 24 22:31:32 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: excepted one symbolic link, everything can be done easely

Nov 24 22:31:48 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: the point is do clean changes

Nov 24 22:32:16 paveljanik I think obr wants to work on this and he has something in his mind already

Nov 24 22:32:33 shaunmcdonald how quickly can it be done?

Nov 24 22:33:53 * shaunmcdonald is just looking for timescales

Nov 24 22:34:02 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: depends ;-) It must be done in a way that does not break X11

Nov 24 22:34:18 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: that is a very good point

Nov 24 22:34:30 ericb2 paveljanik: so, the best way is to modify the tree in scp2

Nov 24 22:34:31 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: it can't break other platforms either ;-)

Nov 24 22:36:22 ericb2 the second point is the libsalsystools

Nov 24 22:38:51 paveljanik let's ask obr if he can prepare some "analyze" of the problem for the meeting.

Nov 24 22:39:30 ericb2 the point is already scheduled, but obr didn't confirm yet. Who can ask him to confirm ?

Nov 24 22:39:39 tino A good point, can we ask about the agenda for the meeting next week ;)

Nov 24 22:39:45 tino ericb2: I ask him!

Nov 24 22:40:09 ericb2 tino: thank you :-)

Nov 24 22:40:21 tino ericb2: And he will at least attend on Saturday noon if I am not wrong

Nov 24 22:40:45 ericb2 tino: ok. We will adapt for him

Nov 24 22:41:30 ericb2 other questions for point 2 ? shaunmcdonald ?

Nov 24 22:42:13 shaunmcdonald ericb2: I think that is all that would need to be done to get aqua to work from a buildbot

Nov 24 22:42:46 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: ok. I think so too,and this is a good step forward

Nov 24 22:43:12 ericb2 next point ?

Nov 24 22:43:20 ericb2 Point 3: Hamburg meeting preparation 2nd_Mac_porters_meeting

Nov 24 22:43:34 shaunmcdonald http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/2nd_Mac_porters_meeting

Nov 24 22:43:42 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: thank you :-)

Nov 24 22:44:38 ericb2 since today, Kai did a very interesting change, providing a timing for the meeting

Nov 24 22:45:08 ericb2 what Kai proposed is :

Nov 24 22:45:26 ericb2 Saturday 10:00 - 12:00

Nov 24 22:45:35 ericb2 Early bird hacking

Nov 24 22:45:46 ericb2 12:00 -13:00 Sessions

Nov 24 22:46:03 ericb2 13:00 - 19:00 -> to be completed

Nov 24 22:46:29 ericb2 I contacted Florian Heckl, who confirmed he will present a (short) session about Native FilePicker

Nov 24 22:47:12 ericb2 from my side, in sessions, I'll start the meeting with an introduction, and I'll continue with a second (short session too ) about native controls implementation

Nov 24 22:47:32 ericb2 other sessions are from cloph

Nov 24 22:48:28 ericb2 I contacted Yvan Barthelemy too, and I'll probably present shortly where he is,and why he is stalled

Nov 24 22:48:31 shaunmcdonald ericb2: when is lunch?

Nov 24 22:48:54 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: no lunch We are geeks ;-)

Nov 24 22:49:52 ericb2 tino : I'l present a more precise timing tomorrow

Nov 24 22:50:21 ericb2 curently, I propose sessions from 12:00 to 14:00

Nov 24 22:50:25 tino ericb2: Ok, no problem

Nov 24 22:50:36 ericb2 followed by a short pause 1/2

Nov 24 22:50:43 * ybart (n=ybart@lns-bzn-42-82-255-111-78.adsl.proxad.net) has joined #ooo_macport

Nov 24 22:50:44 ericb2 and after we start workshops

Nov 24 22:50:56 ericb2 ybart: hi Yvan ;-)

Nov 24 22:50:58 ybart hi

Nov 24 22:51:04 tino My wishes, goals for the meeting are:

Nov 24 22:51:06 ybart hi ericb2, sorry for being late

Nov 24 22:51:34 * Fredv78 (n=Fred@ has joined #ooo_macport

Nov 24 22:51:42 shaunmcdonald ybart: we're on point 3 just now

Nov 24 22:51:44 tino 1. Short intro of everybody and a short description of what he is currently doing in the Mac port

Nov 24 22:51:56 ybart shaunmcdonald: ok, thanks

Nov 24 22:52:50 shaunmcdonald tino: ahh, the usual ice breaker ;-)

Nov 24 22:52:59 tino 2. Definition of the most important work areas in order to get to an alpha version and maybe some rough assignment who takes ownership of which area

Nov 24 22:53:25 ericb2 tino: that's exactly what I had in mind

Nov 24 22:54:02 tino 3. If there is some interest I could present something about OOo debugging (basic using of Mac OS X debugging facilities like gdb, etc.)

Nov 24 22:54:38 tino 4. A short introduction of how effectively to use the testtool (together with the guru - Jogi)

Nov 24 22:56:24 ericb2 tino: I think maybe your 3. could become 4. and 3. would be : other important work areas like native filepicker, drag and drop, printing, native controls, mainly

Nov 24 22:56:26 tino A challenging agenda in the light of the little time I have currently but I think I can prepare something

Nov 24 22:56:30 shaunmcdonald has there been any test with testtool and aqua builds?

Nov 24 22:56:51 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: not yet, fonts issue mainly

Nov 24 22:57:04 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: e.g. file extensions are not recognized

Nov 24 22:57:08 tino ericb2: I don mind about the sequence

Nov 24 22:57:13 ericb2 tino: ok

Nov 24 22:57:26 tino ericb2: But Jogi will only attend on Sunday

Nov 24 22:57:31 shaunmcdonald ericb2: ok

Nov 24 22:57:33 ericb2 tino: I just wanted to introduce the meeting with 1 and 2

Nov 24 22:58:03 ericb2 tino: if I remember correctly, Jogi and Oliver will attend on sunday, correct ?

Nov 24 22:58:05 * cloph notes that he is listed on the meeting in hamburg page, but I'll probably not be able to attend it

Nov 24 22:58:05 tino So the introduction of the testtool could only be on Sunday - if there is interest in this topic at all

Nov 24 22:58:21 ericb2 cloph: :-/

Nov 24 22:58:26 tino ericb2: No I think Oliver will attend on Saturday!

Nov 24 22:58:30 ericb2 cloph: money problem ?

Nov 24 22:58:43 ericb2 tino: sorry : s/sunday/saturday/

Nov 24 22:58:49 cloph ericb2: Yes...

Nov 24 22:59:29 ericb2 cloph: maybe we could help you ?

Nov 24 22:59:56 jamesmckenzie tino: I'm having problems with testtool and incorrect errors. This might need to be discussed at the meeting, unfortunately, I will not be attending.

Nov 24 23:00:49 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: did you already contact Joerg Sievers ?

Nov 24 23:01:00 tino jamesmckenzie: Yes I know that there is still an issue with the testtool - its on my long list of todos :(

Nov 24 23:01:42 jamesmckenzie ericb2: Both Maho and I are encountering them. I am going to start filing issues so that they can be tracked.

Nov 24 23:01:59 cloph Since I'm only a "builder" and no "coder", I don't really know whether I can be of much help anyway... The configure changes are rather minimal and a IRC is more than enough to discuss this :-)

Nov 24 23:02:15 ericb2 cloph: we are a team

Nov 24 23:03:38 paveljanik cloph: but anyway: it is important - build experience for newcomers was terrible in the past. it is better now, but...

Nov 24 23:03:46 paveljanik thanks for your work!

Nov 24 23:03:58 * cloph doesn't even have a laptop and bringing the G5 would be quite some hassle :-) ...

Nov 24 23:04:05 paveljanik so many Macs there and we can't you iChat? ;-)

Nov 24 23:04:14 paveljanik s/you/use/

Nov 24 23:04:59 tino I would be interested in what personal goals or wishes (of the outcome of the meeting) everybody has

Nov 24 23:05:50 tino If you could choose say 3 things what would you like to have as an outcome, achievement etc?

Nov 24 23:06:14 shaunmcdonald tino: I expressed my main one in Point 2 of the meeting

Nov 24 23:06:48 ericb2 a lot for me : meet us for true, discuss about point very difficult to explain by mail or IRC, show code, write ideas behind code after discussed e.g. with ssa , find informations for font sallayout implementation , learn gdb using OpenOffice.org

Nov 24 23:07:09 ericb2 hear what is doing Florian Heckl

Nov 24 23:07:23 tino shaunmcdonald: You mean improve configuration ....?

Nov 24 23:07:48 shaunmcdonald tino: that's a different point, more what cloph is doing

Nov 24 23:08:09 cloph (if you have problems with configure on mac, just file an issue and assign to me)

Nov 24 23:08:31 tino shaunmcdonald: Please say which 2. you are refering then

Nov 24 23:08:57 shaunmcdonald tino: from the agenda: Point 2: Ability to build ooo Aqua, such that it runs out of the box (Shaun)

Nov 24 23:08:58 paveljanik cloph: This is what I call "word". Yes - we need to hear more similar sentences ;-)

Nov 24 23:09:15 cloph :-)

Nov 24 23:09:35 tino shaunmcdonald: Ok

Nov 24 23:10:57 * shaunmcdonald remembers that HEAD no longer compiles again :-( Log http://termite.go-oo.org/MacPort1/builds/ 19/step-compile/0 error in build_instsetoo_native due to some undefined symbols

Nov 24 23:12:23 tino ericb2: Do you have examples for points difficult to explain by mail...?

Nov 24 23:13:10 ericb2 tino: yes. I started a discussion with ssa about vcl, and the need to show some code is often needed. Very difficult in a mail

Nov 24 23:13:30 ericb2 tino: like doing tests in runtime

Nov 24 23:13:51 ericb2 tino: e.g. ssa does perfectly now salnativewidgets, since he wrote the specs

Nov 24 23:14:05 tino ericb2: So you would like ssa to explain more about the concepts, implementation etc. of vcl?

Nov 24 23:14:06 ericb2 tino: and some dark points could be discussed

Nov 24 23:14:23 * shaunmcdonald can't wait for Leopard iChat ;-)

Nov 24 23:14:31 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: how to look at the end of the log?

Nov 24 23:14:43 tino shaunmcdonald: why? Some new fancy features?

Nov 24 23:14:43 ericb2 tino: some points, yes : e.g. links between textboxes and combo/list boxes

Nov 24 23:14:48 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: scroll to the bottom

Nov 24 23:15:09 ericb2 tino: relation between text and controls looks not obvious either

Nov 24 23:15:16 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: scroll to the end of build log which is 20MB large? ;-)

Nov 24 23:15:32 tino ericb2: Does ssa about your wish so that he maybe has a chance for at least some minimal prep?

Nov 24 23:15:41 shaunmcdonald tino: if I remember correctly you can share screens/show presentations/slideshows with other chat members

Nov 24 23:15:45 tino ericb2: Are your sure he will attend?

Nov 24 23:15:55 tino shaunmcdonald: wow

Nov 24 23:16:13 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: sorry there is an issue with buildbot not giving an issue with tail since more to the new one

Nov 24 23:16:32 ericb2 tino: he wrote me he will try to come. I can't tell you more

Nov 24 23:17:05 tino ericb2: I will ask him directly on monday

Nov 24 23:17:07 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: mikeleib is away this week so have left a message or two for him to fix the config errors one his return

Nov 24 23:17:16 ericb2 tino: thank you very much

Nov 24 23:18:30 shaunmcdonald tino: http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ichat.html

Nov 24 23:18:38 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: leopard

Nov 24 23:18:39 * shaunmcdonald called screen sharing

Nov 24 23:19:07 shaunmcdonald ericb2: yep should help with collaboration if someone needs to show you something

Nov 24 23:19:39 shaunmcdonald ericb2: if you have the router setup right, you could try a program called spy

Nov 24 23:19:40 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: indeed : direct discussion is the best way for such problems

Nov 24 23:19:44 tino So my most important wish for the meeting is to get an overview of where we really are with the port currently and what needs to be done in which sequence in order to come to an alpha version - structuring the work a little bit which is one of the most difficult things in any non-trivial project!

Nov 24 23:20:30 shaunmcdonald tino: that appears to sum up the objective fairly

Nov 24 23:20:34 paveljanik hmm, I can now delete what I wrote in the meantime :-)

Nov 24 23:20:45 tino Work which better to achieve IMO when direct communication and interaction is possible

Nov 24 23:21:03 paveljanik I want to add that if we divide the work into tasks, we can make smaller tasks which are easier finished...

Nov 24 23:21:20 tino paveljanik: 100% agreement

Nov 24 23:21:41 ericb2 what is important, is : find missing informations, e.g. Yvan told me about printing

Nov 24 23:21:49 tino paveljanik: This is even important from a psychological POV.

Nov 24 23:22:03 tino paveljanik: So you have more success experiences

Nov 24 23:22:22 tino instead of constantly seeing a huge amount of work at once

Nov 24 23:22:57 jamesmckenzie tino: +1 for the piece by piece approach.

Nov 24 23:23:12 ericb2 tino: yes, sure, but people having the knowledge

Nov 24 23:23:15 ericb2 ooops

Nov 24 23:23:20 tino We have to work hard to achiev that in order to maximize our productivity and reach our goal

Nov 24 23:23:21 ericb2 not finished: -)

Nov 24 23:23:37 shaunmcdonald for whoever was wondering about spy and seeing remote desktops live

Nov 24 23:24:38 shaunmcdonald there is even a live option ;-)

Nov 24 23:25:20 cloph shaunmcdonald: in a stamp-like size....

Nov 24 23:25:35 shaunmcdonald cloph: small?

Nov 24 23:25:43 cloph Why not use vnc?

Nov 24 23:25:46 cloph shaunmcdonald: yes..

Nov 24 23:26:09 ericb2 other questions, suggestions for this point, or can we continue with the next one ?

Nov 24 23:26:35 shaunmcdonald cloph: you can use a browser instead of a vnc client that might not work ;-)

Nov 24 23:26:54 cloph :-)

Nov 24 23:27:23 ericb2 next point ?

Nov 24 23:28:16 shaunmcdonald Point 4: Create a structure dedicated to Mac port to receive donations

Nov 24 23:28:52 ericb2 Yes. We discussed recently about the opportunity to create an association to receive founds

Nov 24 23:29:17 ericb2 they are a lot of reasons to receive money, and spend it

Nov 24 23:30:02 ericb2 We searched between several possibilities :

Nov 24 23:30:34 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: can you describe us your idea using Apple store link please ?

Nov 24 23:30:44 shaunmcdonald ericb2: ok

Nov 24 23:30:59 shaunmcdonald we could become an apple store affiliate

Nov 24 23:31:21 shaunmcdonald we would have a link via tradedoubler to the apple store

Nov 24 23:31:51 shaunmcdonald we would be able to earn about 2.5% of each sale generated through people using this link

Nov 24 23:32:17 shaunmcdonald someone can take 15 days to complete the sale for us to get the commision

Nov 24 23:32:41 shaunmcdonald the commission would then be paid monthly a month in arrears

Nov 24 23:33:01 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: you proposed this solution to Louis, and what was the answer ?

Nov 24 23:33:02 shaunmcdonald louis doesn't like the idea

Nov 24 23:33:16 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: did he propose something else ?

Nov 24 23:33:24 shaunmcdonald as it is a link to a commercial companies' web site

Nov 24 23:33:56 shaunmcdonald he had suggested putting a link to a market place, but that probably wouldn't gain us any revenue

Nov 24 23:34:09 ericb2 thank you shaunmcdonald

Nov 24 23:34:28 ericb2 another solution can be put a google bar on our own blogs

Nov 24 23:34:38 jamesmckenzie ericb2: Has anyone looked at paypal?

Nov 24 23:35:23 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: paypal without a structure to receive money, and without pay taxes is useless

Nov 24 23:35:58 ericb2 so a simple solution is to create an " association " , following french laws

Nov 24 23:36:06 Fredv78 Hi, I think that tradedoubler and google adsense would need a structure too

Nov 24 23:36:13 shaunmcdonald http://contributing.openoffice.org/donate.html

Nov 24 23:36:30 shaunmcdonald ooo already uses paypal

Nov 24 23:36:32 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: there is no transparency with that

Nov 24 23:37:25 Fredv78 If you want people to give 'for the mac porting' it isn't a solution

Nov 24 23:37:36 ericb2 Fredv78: agreed

Nov 24 23:37:43 shaunmcdonald currently there is no way to specify a specific part of the ooo project to donate money to

Nov 24 23:38:24 Fredv78 shaunmcdonald: I think that eric's idea of creating a special structure for that purpose is the solution

Nov 24 23:38:56 tino Lads it was a long day for me (attended the German XPDays today). I'leave now and prepare something for the meeting tomorrow evening. I will also look at the agend again and add what we have discussed

Nov 24 23:38:59 tino CU

Nov 24 23:39:00 jamesmckenzie ericb2: We are recognized as a not-for profit enterprise are we not?

Nov 24 23:39:00 shaunmcdonald Fredv78: is there a problem with doing this, in terms of the rest of the ooo project?

Nov 24 23:39:18 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: the structure I have in mind will, yes

Nov 24 23:39:27 jamesmckenzie tino: Bye! I've written Oscar.

Nov 24 23:39:43 ericb2 tino: bye

Nov 24 23:39:48 tino bye!

Nov 24 23:39:51 jamesmckenzie ericb2: Great. I thought that is were we wanted to go.

Nov 24 23:39:53 Fredv78 jamesmckenzie: the french 'association' is a non-for-profit structure

Nov 24 23:40:09 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: currently, Louis disagrees

Nov 24 23:40:27 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: paveljanik too if I'm not wrong

Nov 24 23:40:28 shaunmcdonald ericb2: thought that might be the case ;-)

Nov 24 23:40:30 jamesmckenzie Fredv78: This is a good idea. However, how would we get monies from France to say the UK?

Nov 24 23:40:54 ericb2 shaunmcdonald:  ;-)

Nov 24 23:41:15 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: I think paypal allows that

Nov 24 23:41:24 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: but we have to verify

Nov 24 23:41:25 shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: or even in the other direction

Nov 24 23:41:35 Fredv78 ericb2: Louis disagrees ? Arnt there same kind of structures for other projects ? I have native lang projects in mind

Nov 24 23:42:00 shaunmcdonald ericb2: would the that be allowed in the association structure?

Nov 24 23:42:10 Fredv78 ericb2: pavel too ? do you know why ?

Nov 24 23:42:12 jamesmckenzie ericb2: The point I was trying to make is if the association exists in France, will the UK recognize it as well as Slovakia?

Nov 24 23:42:31 ericb2 Fredv78: I think Pavel will answer you, he's present

Nov 24 23:43:16 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: I must verify, but we could find a way for non EU residents with Team e.V e.g.

Nov 24 23:43:49 ericb2 at all : don't believe we will be rich :-)

Nov 24 23:43:53 Fredv78 jamesmckenzie: It's easy to buy a mac or things with a visa CB

Nov 24 23:43:56 jamesmckenzie ericb2: Just thoughts...

Nov 24 23:44:16 ericb2 I need a vote

Nov 24 23:44:31 ericb2 who disagrees ?

Nov 24 23:44:47 jamesmckenzie Fredv78: But are there customs duties to pay if a product is bought in one country but delivered to another? Not that I need a new computer, but several team members do.

Nov 24 23:45:09 shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: this doesn't apply within the EU

Nov 24 23:45:18 * ismael_ (n=ismael@acces0769.res.insa-lyon.fr) has joined #ooo_macport

Nov 24 23:45:29 jamesmckenzie ismael_: Welcome.

Nov 24 23:45:35 shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: what happens if the funds are sent to another country and the computer would be bought there?

Nov 24 23:45:36 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: we could let the guy pay in his own country, and send him the exact amount ?

Nov 24 23:45:46 ismael_ hi all

Nov 24 23:45:51 ericb2 ismael_: hello

Nov 24 23:46:04 jamesmckenzie ericb2: What if the individual could not afford to pay for the system?

Nov 24 23:46:20 shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: would we have to pay tax on the money going abroad?

Nov 24 23:46:22 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: sorry. Can you be more precise ?

Nov 24 23:46:44 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: the solution is certainly not perfect

Nov 24 23:46:51 shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: we are paying him to buy the machine

Nov 24 23:46:53 Fredv78 jamesmckenzie: I think that today, the problem is that there is no structure at all so no money at all

Nov 24 23:47:01 jamesmckenzie ericb2: Ok. Shaun gave me the information I needed. What we could do is send the monies to the STORE and have the person pick it up.

Nov 24 23:47:32 shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: would that work for online stores?

Nov 24 23:48:03 Fredv78 jamesmckenzie: as it is an international project, we could have to pay taxes depending of the structure location, but it would occure wherever is the strucure

Nov 24 23:48:08 jamesmckenzie Fredv78: I'm aware of this. What I wanted to clarify is: Would we buy the machine, license it to the project and then ship it, or would we pay for a machine that the person would retain?

Nov 24 23:48:28 jamesmckenzie shaunmcdonald: It should. It's cash....

Nov 24 23:49:21 ericb2 again, I need a vote : who disagrees ?

Nov 24 23:49:34 shaunmcdonald ericb2: what are we voting for?

Nov 24 23:50:05 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I first wnat to know if a lot of people present disagree, and why

Nov 24 23:50:06 * shaunmcdonald just needs to clarify

Nov 24 23:50:09 jamesmckenzie ericb2: If the machine remains a part of the project and funds are independently handled (I liked the idea of Sophie...) +1

Nov 24 23:50:17 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: later, We'll ask on mac@porting list

Nov 24 23:50:26 shaunmcdonald ericb2: disagree with what?

Nov 24 23:50:35 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: and prepare a project for this structure

Nov 24 23:50:48 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: e.g. I know Louis and Pavel disagree

Nov 24 23:51:03 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: other, I don't know. And I don't decide alone

Nov 24 23:51:11 * shaunmcdonald thinks he needs more information on the specifics of the options to be able to decide

Nov 24 23:51:39 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: the point is not to decide, the point is who disagrees

Nov 24 23:51:51 ericb2 and why

Nov 24 23:51:55 paveljanik if the project needs to solve this issue for one subproject, it has to solve it in general, not that many times how many sub-projects we as an OOo project have.

Nov 24 23:52:15 paveljanik so yes, I disagree with solving this particular issue for Mac port only.

Nov 24 23:52:19 ericb2 paveljanik: it will take months

Nov 24 23:52:26 ericb2 maybe more

Nov 24 23:52:41 Fredv78 Sorry, I have to go now - don't know if my 'vote' should be taken in account -my build isn't enen finished- but i agree the idea of a light funding structure dedicated to the mac porting project

Nov 24 23:52:46 paveljanik sure, but it must happen. Clean solution.

Nov 24 23:54:16 ericb2 paveljanik: and full transparency

Nov 24 23:54:24 jamesmckenzie paveljanik: I agree. We cannot do this for one project at a time. However, if we are taking in monies for this project, we need to be able to segregate this from the general OOo monies and be able to show that we spent it in accordance with the applicable laws. If those laws are those of the United States, we will have to keep books that show we DID not make or produce a profit.

Nov 24 23:56:23 shaunmcdonald could we take this to the community council? so that there would be a structure for donating to specific sub-projects

Nov 24 23:57:16 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: this is IMHO already refused

Nov 24 23:57:40 shaunmcdonald ericb2: is there a public record of this?

Nov 24 23:57:46 shaunmcdonald being refused

Nov 24 23:57:52 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: hmm

Nov 24 23:58:07 paveljanik I do not think it was ever refused.

Nov 24 23:58:19 ericb2 paveljanik: create a structure for Mac port ?

Nov 24 23:58:59 ericb2 paveljanik: if so, I'm very surprised

Nov 24 23:59:04 Fredv78 In my mind, to be efficient, we need to be fast and 'light'> The overall OOo project doesn't have a structure dedicated to give to a particular project, so it woul'd be long and difficult to change something this way - according to me

Nov 24 23:59:12 Fredv78 Good night to all and thank you for all that you do

Nov 24 23:59:25 ericb2 Fredv78: cu !

Nov 24 23:59:42 * Fredv78 (n=Fred@ has left #ooo_macport

Nov 25 00:01:13 ericb2 Next point ?

Nov 25 00:01:24 ericb2 Point 5: TestTool scripts - create a new script in CVS for Mac OS X - See [1] [2] (James & Shaun)

Nov 25 00:01:41 ericb2 1 is  : http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=60281

Nov 25 00:01:46 shaunmcdonald ericb2: there has been an additon to one of the issues

Nov 25 00:01:48 IZBot issue 60281: qa DEFECT NEW testtool script doesn't run correctly on Mac OS X

Nov 25 00:01:53 ericb2 2 is : http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=70761

Nov 25 00:01:59 IZBot issue 70761: qa DEFECT NEW ooo_releasetest.sh doesn't work on MacOSX

Nov 25 00:02:24 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: what is the exact problem ? The script does not work ?

Nov 25 00:02:26 shaunmcdonald on issue 70762 by andreschnabel

Nov 25 00:02:30 IZBot framework DEFECT UNCONFIRMED Openoffice crashes while opening documents if temp folder is a junction http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=70762

Nov 25 00:02:34 shaunmcdonald ericb2: that's the idea

Nov 25 00:02:56 shaunmcdonald but we make it work on the mac and it doesn't work on other platforms such as linux

Nov 25 00:03:05 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: if I remember corectly, andre wrote the initial script, right ?

Nov 25 00:03:38 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: and you mean a specific mac script. Which shell is used ? bash ? perl ?

Nov 25 00:03:45 jamesmckenzie ericb2: If I apply the fixes, testtool will run. However several of the .bas scripts throw incorrect errors. I have contacted Andre...

Nov 25 00:03:49 shaunmcdonald andreschnabel said that he would try to mac a non platform specific one, or if that fails create a mac specific one in CVS

Nov 25 00:04:07 shaunmcdonald ericb2: I don't know who created it

Nov 25 00:04:17 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: ah, because of the contents, e.g. end of lines or so ?

Nov 25 00:04:19 shaunmcdonald ericb2: it is bash or sh

Nov 25 00:04:26 jamesmckenzie that is except 70762. I don't have a second machine to do the test with.

Nov 25 00:04:28 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: should work on Mac OS X

Nov 25 00:05:10 jamesmckenzie ericb2: I will send you my b_updt.res file so you can read through it. The MySQL ODBC test fails and LDAP is not supported.

Nov 25 00:06:09 jamesmckenzie ericb2: You will need testtool or a reader to go through it. There were 9 errors and 32 warnings, none are valid.

Nov 25 00:06:21 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: what does not work, MySQL, or the testtool ? ( i.e. for LDAP )

Nov 25 00:06:21 shaunmcdonald ericb2: see http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=60281 and comment by tbo on Apr 13 that explains one of the main problems that causes cross-platform incompatibility

Nov 25 00:06:25 IZBot issue 60281: qa DEFECT NEW testtool script doesn't run correctly on Mac OS X

Nov 25 00:07:47 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: strange ..

Nov 25 00:07:56 jamesmckenzie ericb2: LDAP is not supported for a database type on the Mac. Testtool detects MySQL ODBC as a non valid type, but it is there. It may require installation of the appropriate driver and ODBC is not available for the Intel (someone want to build it?)

Nov 25 00:08:33 shaunmcdonald ericb2: yep, which is why I'm suggesting a separate script for the mac as a fast workaround

Nov 25 00:09:09 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: jamesmckenzie can you please wrdescribe everything on the dedicated wiki page ? I created one a day for QA ? This way , we'll be abel to list all issue relative to testtool

Nov 25 00:09:20 jamesmckenzie ericb2: The ooo_releasetest.sh, when modified per 70761, works.

Nov 25 00:09:21 shaunmcdonald ericb2: it appears that andre would be happy with this if there is no cross platform method

Nov 25 00:09:34 jamesmckenzie ericb2: URL?

Nov 25 00:10:14 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_%28_X11%29_Quality_Assurance

Nov 25 00:10:55 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: maybe add a point in http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/ List_of_OpenOffice.org_Mac_OS_X_issues_and_problems too

Nov 25 00:11:05 jamesmckenzie ericb2: Got it. I can put the information in the appropriate places. I think that I already worked on this page.

Nov 25 00:11:06 * shaunmcdonald thinks we could use a if (os==mac) do ... else ... end if for bits that are platform specific

Nov 25 00:11:16 * ericb2 too

Nov 25 00:12:31 jamesmckenzie shaunmcdonald: I can look at the scripts. It appears they will need a major rework for the next version of testtool, due out in January and will go production in February.

Nov 25 00:12:43 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: cut does have a lot of options

Nov 25 00:14:09 * shaunmcdonald sees that the issue that has a patch that works on mac, only has 3 platform specific bits

Nov 25 00:14:25 jamesmckenzie ericb2:  ???? (cut)...

Nov 25 00:15:08 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: the command cut

Nov 25 00:15:34 ericb2 e.g  : cut -d" " -f 1,3 ..etc

Nov 25 00:16:00 jamesmckenzie ericb2: That's the truth. cut is very flexible but you have to be careful not to cut too much B-)

Nov 25 00:17:13 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: what is the plan for coming 2.1 ?

Nov 25 00:17:42 * jamesmckenzie downloading m4 for the PPC for testtool runs

Nov 25 00:17:43 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: will TCM be used and manual tests done or ?

Nov 25 00:18:19 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes, the patch is simply not complete , if I'm not wrong

Nov 25 00:18:20 cloph m4? - but m5 is already available, isn't it?

Nov 25 00:18:32 jamesmckenzie ericb2: TCM includes automated tests. The effort is to see if the automated tests can replace the manual tests. there are 155 L10N tests alone.

Nov 25 00:18:33 ericb2 cloph: m5 :-)

Nov 25 00:19:06 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: is the script used on windows too ?

Nov 25 00:19:10 jamesmckenzie cloph: rc1 is not complete yet. Plus, this is to see if the problems with testtool on the Intel repeat on the PPC.

Nov 25 00:19:20 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I know uname would help

Nov 25 00:19:56 * jamesmckenzie uname -s ==Darwin

Nov 25 00:20:24 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: works on Solaris and Linux, but I'm not sure on Windows

Nov 25 00:20:43 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: on FreeBSD too

Nov 25 00:20:48 jamesmckenzie uname will not work on Windows. But the scripts for Windows uses its own scripts.

Nov 25 00:21:13 ismael_ bye all

Nov 25 00:21:16 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: you ean they are separated ? So no problem with an if

Nov 25 00:21:26 ericb2 ismael_: bye. I'll post the complete log

Nov 25 00:21:36 jamesmckenzie ismael_: bye. Talk to you later.

Nov 25 00:21:45 ismael_ ericb2: and me, i will read it

Nov 25 00:22:23 ericb2 ismael_:  ;-)

Nov 25 00:22:43 * ismael_ has quit ()

Nov 25 00:22:59 jamesmckenzie ericb2: Yes, there are separate directories for the Windows and UNIX full and release scripts. The basic scripts (.bas) and included (.inc) files only address the usage of OpenOffice.org. I've run testtool on Windows as well as Mac OS X.

Nov 25 00:23:33 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: is the script only , responsive of the issue ?

Nov 25 00:24:37 * shaunmcdonald is currently taking a look at the script as used for 2.1, with the special checkout tag

Nov 25 00:25:13 jamesmckenzie ericb2: What the scripts do is run a full functional test or a release test set. They take about a full day to run. Don't plan on using that system until the tests are complete. The problem is that the tests do not run properly on the Mac. I am going to check to see if the problem is only on the Intel Mac or both platforms.

Nov 25 00:26:59 ericb2 jamesmckenzie: understood. So we need to repeat the test on several machines, for fiability

Nov 25 00:28:09 ericb2 ok, other points ?

Nov 25 00:30:42 ericb2 Last Point : Date and Time of the next meeting (Due to the Hamburg Meeting, this will not be 1 December 2006, so probably 8 December 2006.)

Nov 25 00:31:06 ericb2 I propose next meeting on 8th December same hour

Nov 25 00:31:32 ericb2 anyone around ?

Nov 25 00:32:54 ericb2 ok, thanks a lot, and good night everyone

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