Log Mac meeting 15th December 2006

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Dec 15 22:07:20 ericb2 The meeting will be short today

Dec 15 22:07:30 ericb2 only 2 points are scheduled

Dec 15 22:07:58 ericb2 Christmas and new year fests are close

Dec 15 22:08:40 * shaunmcdonald is back

Dec 15 22:09:02 ericb2 Ok, let's start

Dec 15 22:09:09 shaunmcdonald ericb2: Can add a third point?

Dec 15 22:09:19 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: please do

Dec 15 22:09:21 shaunmcdonald ericb2: status of releases for 2.1

Dec 15 22:09:47 * cloph_away is now known as cloph

Dec 15 22:09:57 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: ok, this will be the point 3, if none propose something else

Dec 15 22:10:06 shaunmcdonald ericb2: :-)

Dec 15 22:10:08 shaunmcdonald Point 1: Welcome new devs /Aqua News

Dec 15 22:10:29 ericb2 I think we can invite vvijayk to present himself ?  :-)

Dec 15 22:10:47 ericb2 vvijayk: welcome on Macport  :-)

Dec 15 22:10:59 vvijayk thanks !! My name is Vijay....I am from California, USA

Dec 15 22:11:17 vvijayk I will be helping out with Drag & Drop feature in Aqua build

Dec 15 22:11:41 vvijayk I think the work you all guys are doing in really cool !!

Dec 15 22:12:10 paveljanik vvijayk: and now you are doing it as well! :-)

Dec 15 22:12:10 vvijayk I have been using open source software a lot (mostly in Linux)

Dec 15 22:12:46 vvijayk But I got hooked onto Mac a year or so....have been looking for a native Open Office since that time

Dec 15 22:13:07 vvijayk I checked out the wiki pages and saw that Aqua build was in need of developers and so I decided to help out

Dec 15 22:14:02 vvijayk This is my first time helping out with an open source team and I pretty excited to be part of it :)

Dec 15 22:14:46 vvijayk I am done with my intro :D

Dec 15 22:15:20 ericb2 vvijayk: in the real life, are you developer too ?

Dec 15 22:16:02 vvijayk yes....I am a software engineer

Dec 15 22:17:19 ericb2 vvijayk: great.

Dec 15 22:18:07 ericb2 vvijayk: you mentionned the wiki. In fact, we try to document everything we do

Dec 15 22:18:42 ericb2 vvijayk: but this is not perfect, of course

Dec 15 22:19:25 vvijayk ericb2: yeah...nevertheless, any form of documentation is always good

Dec 15 22:19:46 vvijayk it helped me know a lot and get involved

Dec 15 22:21:00 ericb2 vvijayk: as we discussed yesterday, the most important part should be in dtrans. Caolan confirmed late in the night

Dec 15 22:21:20 vvijayk ericb2: u mean for drag&drop ?

Dec 15 22:21:29 ericb2 vvijayk: esy, I do

Dec 15 22:21:31 ericb2 yes

Dec 15 22:21:33 ericb2 sorry

Dec 15 22:22:32 vvijayk ericb2: ok....u will be fixing the menu problem in weekend ?

Dec 15 22:23:03 ericb2 vvijayk: I'm doing a clean build, without my controls, to see what happens. I'll start asap

Dec 15 22:23:13 ericb2 vvijayk: yes, I'll try this week end

Dec 15 22:23:51 ericb2 vvijayk: probably recent mouse event changes are for something in the issue you have

Dec 15 22:24:13 ericb2 I think we can now continue with recent changes in aqua ?

Dec 15 22:24:37 paveljanik yup

Dec 15 22:25:02 paveljanik I have debugged invader a lot last days, and I missed MOUSEMOVE events, thus I added the code into cws.

Dec 15 22:25:31 vvijayk should I sync up my code with cvs ?

Dec 15 22:25:38 paveljanik I found interesting bug - keyboard works in invader, but only starting from level 2. Looks like we are not doing something properly. I'm on it.

Dec 15 22:25:43 paveljanik vvijayk: yes.

Dec 15 22:26:00 paveljanik I also committed ismael's patch for menu accelerators.

Dec 15 22:26:05 paveljanik (for native menus).

Dec 15 22:26:24 paveljanik that's probably all from me

Dec 15 22:26:43 ericb2 paveljanik: are ismael changes for bitmap included ?

Dec 15 22:27:09 ericb2 paveljanik: if not I'll test them first

Dec 15 22:27:24 ericb2 paveljanik: I currently have uggly bitmaps

Dec 15 22:27:44 ericb2 paveljanik: with strange alpha channel

Dec 15 22:28:29 paveljanik ericb2: no, I only committed menu accelerator.

Dec 15 22:28:39 paveljanik I do not like his change for bitmaps as I said here.

Dec 15 22:28:43 paveljanik he is aware of it.

Dec 15 22:28:52 ericb2 paveljanik: what is wrong ?

Dec 15 22:28:59 paveljanik having two functions whose signature differs only in const is dangerous.

Dec 15 22:29:18 ericb2 paveljanik: indeed

Dec 15 22:30:50 ericb2 paveljanik: what do you suggest ?

Dec 15 22:31:03 ericb2 paveljanik: I didn't read your discussion with Ismael

Dec 15 22:31:25 paveljanik to copy the bitmap, use temporary copy to be changed etc.

Dec 15 22:31:29 paveljanik he will work on it...

Dec 15 22:32:12 ericb2 paveljanik: ok

Dec 15 22:32:26 ericb2 other changes ?

Dec 15 22:33:44 ericb2 from my side, I started my part for native controls, because there is something wrong with the order things are drawn

Dec 15 22:33:56 ericb2 and I'm tracking

Dec 15 22:34:23 ericb2 last Pavel had the idea to use shark ( included in CHUD package)

Dec 15 22:34:58 ericb2 with that, we can see what causes excessive loads

Dec 15 22:35:00 ericb2 and more

Dec 15 22:35:30 ericb2 Stephan Schaefer gave me the info I need to continue with Text boxes

Dec 15 22:36:48 ericb2 Mos Soini just posted a mail on mac@porting about windows parenting

Dec 15 22:37:58 ericb2 last, I have updated the AquaBuild wiki page, and I'll continue the one about the XCode debugger use

Dec 15 22:38:05 ericb2 that's all for me

Dec 15 22:40:05 ericb2 Point 2 can probably be postponed ?

Dec 15 22:41:38 shaunmcdonald Point 2: Point about urgent tasks in native port

Dec 15 22:42:08 ericb2 paveljanik: for me, mouse event works, but looks like too much events are sent

Dec 15 22:42:31 shaunmcdonald ericb2: what were you wanting to say there?

Dec 15 22:43:10 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: about urgent task or mouse events causing crashes ?

Dec 15 22:43:21 shaunmcdonald ericb2: Point 2

Dec 15 22:43:40 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I don't see Florin nor Stephan, nor Tino

Dec 15 22:43:44 ericb2 Florian, sorry

Dec 15 22:44:01 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: so we can continue with point 3

Dec 15 22:44:06 * shaunmcdonald thinks it is quite quiet today

Dec 15 22:44:06 vvijayk guys, I have to go get my lunch....will follow the conversation later

Dec 15 22:44:15 ericb2 vvijayk: later

Dec 15 22:44:28 shaunmcdonald vvijayk: ok, you can catch the log

Dec 15 22:44:48 ericb2 vvijayk: we post all logs on .... http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs

Dec 15 22:45:15 shaunmcdonald What I was going to say was it was a bit of a surprise about some of the locales that are being tested on the Mac Dec 15 22:45:34 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: which one ?

Dec 15 22:45:53 shaunmcdonald for example Italian has fully passed QA and been released for PPC

Dec 15 22:46:25 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: Italien is QA'ed since 2.0.1 or 2.0.2 if I remember correctly

Dec 15 22:46:27 shaunmcdonald has just notice that Irish for PPC has been Approved

Dec 15 22:46:55 paveljanik ericb2: and why do you think the problem (crash) is caused by mouse events?

Dec 15 22:46:58 shaunmcdonald ericb2: this is the first of me finding out, so have added it to the downloads page Dec 15 22:47:56 * shaunmcdonald sees that Polish is currently in QA for both PPC and Intel

Dec 15 22:48:02 paveljanik :-)

Dec 15 22:48:23 shaunmcdonald As you know I rejected the English (GB) builds

Dec 15 22:49:03 shaunmcdonald And the English (South Africa) builds should probably be rejected for the same reason

Dec 15 22:49:23 shaunmcdonald issue 66919

Dec 15 22:49:30 IZBot ui DEFECT STARTED Export as PDF dialog is missing labels en-GB build http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/ show_bug.cgi?id=66919

Dec 15 22:49:52 shaunmcdonald Now for the most important builds

Dec 15 22:50:00 shaunmcdonald Intel has been distributed

Dec 15 22:50:05 shaunmcdonald PPC is still in QA

Dec 15 22:50:19 shaunmcdonald Now for the Question

Dec 15 22:50:33 ericb2 paveljanik: with my build, I have anabled aqua theme on tabs and in toolbar, and since this change has been integrated, all rectangles containing icons colors are mofified just when the cursor flies over the area. Nothing like that before. And all native controls I have implemented are now correctly refreshed, just when the mouse quit the area. but doing that several times causes a crash

Dec 15 22:51:01 paveljanik and what is the stack when it crashes?

Dec 15 22:51:13 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: shoot your question :-)

Dec 15 22:51:23 shaunmcdonald Sites like macupdate and version tracker are still showing that 2.0.4 is the latest version and probably won't update until PPC is Approved

Dec 15 22:51:34 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: the main problem we have with Mac OS X QA is  : every NLC want's to manage all archs, and we want to manage all NLC :-)

Dec 15 22:51:37 shaunmcdonald Do we want them to update sooner?

Dec 15 22:51:59 paveljanik ericb2: and this is complete nonsense, because QA should be done inside QA project!

Dec 15 22:52:11 ericb2 paveljanik: yes, I know

Dec 15 22:52:13 paveljanik I think this is the main problem all around NLC...

Dec 15 22:52:22 cloph ..by the NLC communities..

Dec 15 22:52:34 paveljanik cloph: yes, but inside QA project.

Dec 15 22:52:41 ericb2 lol

Dec 15 22:52:47 paveljanik inside QA by NLC people working in QA project.

Dec 15 22:53:02 shaunmcdonald ericb2: So it is quite confusing with who does what when it come to translations, QA and releases

Dec 15 22:53:23 * jamesmckenzie has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

Dec 15 22:53:44 shaunmcdonald are all the people in the NLC communities that do testing in the QA project?

Dec 15 22:53:45 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: that's exactly the point : who does what. Once defined, I think we will progress

Dec 15 22:54:10 shaunmcdonald ericb2: co-ordination might be the best idea

Dec 15 22:54:17 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: indeed :-)

Dec 15 22:55:08 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: but I'm glad to see new locales QA'ed for Mac OS X port ;-)

Dec 15 22:55:18 paveljanik ericb2: can you produce the stack from your crash for me to analyze it?

Dec 15 22:55:50 shaunmcdonald ericb2: currently if you go to the page http://download.openoffice.org and want to download for the Mac then you are sent to http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/download/ , where I'm trying to keep track of all the Distributed Mac builds

Dec 15 22:55:52 ericb2 paveljanik: I'll do whith my buld in progress

Dec 15 22:56:06 paveljanik ok

Dec 15 22:56:34 shaunmcdonald ericb2: I'm happy with new locales too, it's just a problem of keeping the pages up to date

Dec 15 22:56:38 ericb2 paveljanik: then I'l be sure this is only caused by recent changes. I'm not even sure yet

Dec 15 22:57:01 shaunmcdonald ericb2: the other place that people can get the downloads is from the various NLC pages

Dec 15 22:57:03 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: do you have a list of people doing QA ?

Dec 15 22:57:15 shaunmcdonald ericb2: Not really

Dec 15 22:57:39 shaunmcdonald ericb2: I'm just trying to pick the items from the qtrack site

Dec 15 22:57:47 shaunmcdonald http://www.qatrack.org/ooo/view.php?status=All&type=All

Dec 15 22:58:10 shaunmcdonald But people are not assigning who is responsible all the time

Dec 15 22:58:33 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: so this is the first thing to do : ask NLC leads, else Maho ?

Dec 15 22:59:24 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: currently, not more than 7 or 8 names/mails to find :-)

Dec 15 22:59:32 shaunmcdonald ericb2: Good point

Dec 15 23:00:07 * shaunmcdonald has added it to his todo list

Dec 15 23:00:27 ericb2 paveljanik: can this point be discussed somewhere ? CC e.g.  ?

Dec 15 23:00:46 ericb2 paveljanik: I meant who does what ( and when ) Dec 15 23:01:03 paveljanik ask on dev@qa - people doing qa should be there.

Dec 15 23:01:11 ericb2 paveljanik: ok

Dec 15 23:01:14 ericb2 I'll do

Dec 15 23:01:26 shaunmcdonald ericb2: So I hope to find out who is doing the QA and make sure that we are all using a similar easy to use download system

Dec 15 23:01:35 paveljanik it is on shaunmcdonald's list already ;-)

Dec 15 23:01:53 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: ok

Dec 15 23:02:04 * shaunmcdonald won't get bored this university break

Dec 15 23:02:17 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: my first objective was : 10 locales QA'ed ;-)

Dec 15 23:02:28 shaunmcdonald ericb2: both platforms?

Dec 15 23:02:41 shaunmcdonald ericb2: and get them all mentioned on the mac pages?

Dec 15 23:03:03 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: it isn't possible ?

Dec 15 23:03:11 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: BTW - I had a chance to get to know you a bit more in hamburg and what I can say is, that

you *should* be able to even help us with the code - some of your ideas were bright, clean and correct... ;-)

Dec 15 23:03:27 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: please think a bit more about it :-)

Dec 15 23:03:56 * shaunmcdonald knows he should get into the code more

Dec 15 23:04:26 * mav_eric (n=mav_eric@xdsl-87-79-209-90.netcologne.de) has joined #ooo_macport

Dec 15 23:04:58 shaunmcdonald ericb2: it is possible, but it is just a case of knowing which locales are being QA'ed for the mac

Dec 15 23:05:44 shaunmcdonald ericb2: there has been about 4 since I started using QA track that I have come accross that I did not know before

Dec 15 23:06:18 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: FYI, I found 9 locales QA'ed for Mac OS X !

Dec 15 23:06:33 ericb2 (one already refused )

Dec 15 23:06:57 shaunmcdonald ericb2: en-GB the one that was refused?

Dec 15 23:07:15 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes, and maybe german too

Dec 15 23:07:22 ericb2 mav_eric: Hi Eric

Dec 15 23:07:33 mav_eric hi Eric

Dec 15 23:07:42 ericb2 mav_eric: have you some news about german locales ?

Dec 15 23:07:46 mav_eric Sorry for the delay but I wanted to see the American Football game

Dec 15 23:08:04 mav_eric ericb2: yes. We're investigating why OOo breaks when using Impress

Dec 15 23:08:16 shaunmcdonald ericb2: the issue that mav_eric and uwe have come across seems to affect all platforms, but has seemingly been slipped for the other platforms

Dec 15 23:08:33 mav_eric ericb2: Today I had five crashes when using Impress - not counting the ones when saving as ppt

Dec 15 23:08:41 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: sometimes I think we really do serious QA

Dec 15 23:09:03 mav_eric ericb2: currently Impress - the longer I use it - becomes more and more unusable - at least for Mac Intel

Dec 15 23:09:20 ericb2 mav_eric: this is a general feeling : Impress does not have a good reputation

Dec 15 23:09:42 paveljanik I don't think so.

Dec 15 23:09:47 mav_eric ericb2: the last thing I noticed is that as long as there is one slide - Impress is good.

Dec 15 23:09:53 ericb2 paveljanik: really ?

Dec 15 23:10:05 ericb2 paveljanik: remember in Hamburg, e.g. the refresh :-)

Dec 15 23:10:05 mav_eric ericb2: now you add more slides up to five and impress still saves them as ppt.

Dec 15 23:10:07 paveljanik It works very well for me.

Dec 15 23:10:14 * shaunmcdonald agrees that Impress needs the rework

Dec 15 23:10:19 mav_eric ericb2: but if you now remove one slide - Impress crashes.

Dec 15 23:10:23 paveljanik ericb2: on your machine?

Dec 15 23:10:35 shaunmcdonald ericb2: that refresh issue was due to part of the window being off screen

Dec 15 23:10:39 ericb2 paveljanik: and Shaun too if I 'm not wrong

Dec 15 23:11:05 shaunmcdonald ericb2: I've got Impress to crash opening some of those documents

Dec 15 23:11:09 paveljanik it was because of the small resolution of the beamer.

Dec 15 23:11:19 mav_eric It looks as if Impress "deletes" the slide but not the reference of it and so when it saves it may miss the slide

Dec 15 23:11:25 mav_eric but that's just guessing

Dec 15 23:12:02 ericb2 do we have a QA link, to see the buds concerning Impress ?

Dec 15 23:12:03 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: projector

Dec 15 23:12:05 * ericb2 searchs

Dec 15 23:12:12 ericb2 shaunmcdonald:  ;-)

Dec 15 23:12:15 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: ;-))

Dec 15 23:12:36 * paveljanik remembers insider joke with bemmer ;-)

Dec 15 23:12:42 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: had the window been the size of the projector, then we wouldn't have had a problem with the refresh

Dec 15 23:12:42 * ericb2 too

Dec 15 23:12:59 * shaunmcdonald has been able to verify the refresh issue

Dec 15 23:13:04 ericb2 starting point (I guess ) : http://qa.openoffice.org/iz_statistic.html

Dec 15 23:13:12 * shaunmcdonald can't remember if he filed a bug about it

Dec 15 23:13:58 ericb2 Issues : presentation -3 547 550 543 544 542 547 546 545 542 542

Dec 15 23:14:24 ericb2 first number is the last delta

Dec 15 23:14:32 ericb2 last week , the previous one ..etc

Dec 15 23:14:42 shaunmcdonald ericb2: is that all the issues that the presentation has ;-) Dec 15 23:15:11 * shaunmcdonald wondered if the issue numbers had looped round

Dec 15 23:15:21 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I'm searching Impress, and I only found that. Maybe I missed something

Dec 15 23:15:54 cloph ericb2: That line was the Features & Enhancement one...

Dec 15 23:15:55 shaunmcdonald ericb2: the way it pasted in, it seems to be one long number followed by 542

Dec 15 23:17:28 ericb2 cloph: yes, you're right. Defect gives : presentation new 6 548 542 536 532 526 540 531 530 527 528

Dec 15 23:18:11 ericb2 and started, in defect + presentation : presentation started 0 277 277 281 279 278 265 263 264 265 264

Dec 15 23:18:24 ericb2 quite important

Dec 15 23:18:47 shaunmcdonald now sees spaces betweeen the numbers :-)

Dec 15 23:19:08 ericb2 mav_eric: impress works not so bad finally

Dec 15 23:19:30 ericb2 mav_eric: there is a lot of work, but this is correct

Dec 15 23:19:58 * ericb2 does use Impress every week, for all his courses, and not too much problems so far

Dec 15 23:19:59 mav_eric ericb2: I didn't say that Impress is bad. I just said that I had trouble with it today

Dec 15 23:20:04 cloph shaunmcdonald: unconfirmed & reopened...

Dec 15 23:20:23 ericb2 mav_eric: I perfectly understand

Dec 15 23:20:24 mav_eric ericb2: and that it unexpected froze

Dec 15 23:20:43 shaunmcdonald ericb2: actually formaula editor and word processor beat presentation

Dec 15 23:20:58 paveljanik and base? ;-)

Dec 15 23:21:07 ericb2 paveljanik:  :p

Dec 15 23:21:15 mav_eric shaunmcdonald: maybe that's because they are used more often

Dec 15 23:21:16 paveljanik ok, other topics?

Dec 15 23:21:25 * shaunmcdonald starts bashing his head off his desk

Dec 15 23:21:49 ericb2 No that's all for today

Dec 15 23:21:57 * shaunmcdonald has just read another mail from the porting list stating that ooo can't be downloaded

Dec 15 23:21:58 ericb2 next meeting ? Next year ?

Dec 15 23:22:30 paveljanik +1

Dec 15 23:22:36 ericb2 paveljanik: can you please discuss with Mox ? He doesn't answer me when I proposed him a commit access

Dec 15 23:22:36 * shaunmcdonald is not happy with someone for taking out the 2.0.3 and 2.0.4 entries from the bouncer

Dec 15 23:22:38 paveljanik in the meantime: code, commit :-)

Dec 15 23:22:47 mav_eric ericb2: +1

Dec 15 23:22:52 paveljanik ericb2: I'll ask him once he is here again.

Dec 15 23:22:59 ericb2 paveljanik: ok

Dec 15 23:23:15 paveljanik ok, good night.

Dec 15 23:23:21 * paveljanik fires all his builds :-)

Dec 15 23:23:43 * shaunmcdonald has just noticed that there are 2 mails about unable to download ooo for PPC Mac OS X

Dec 15 23:23:58 * ericb2 proposes Ffriday 5th January 2007 for next meeting : OK ?

Dec 15 23:24:09 mav_eric ericb2: +1

Dec 15 23:24:16 shaunmcdonald ericb2: +1

Dec 15 23:24:18 ericb2 same hour

Dec 15 23:24:39 mav_eric ericb2: yes or one hour earlier.

Dec 15 23:24:42 ericb2 Merry Christmas and Happy new year to all :-)

Dec 15 23:24:48 * shaunmcdonald has changed the topic to: OpenOffice.org Mac porting team channel. Next IRC Meeting is scheduled Friday 5th January 2007 (21:00 UTC / 22:00 CET). See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings#Next_Meeting for the agenda. All previous Mac port meetings logs are available at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs

Dec 15 23:24:58 mav_eric ericb2: same to you

Dec 15 23:25:15 mav_eric ericb2: but I guess we'll meet again before the holidays on IRC

Dec 15 23:25:22 * shaunmcdonald wonders if the got the year right

Dec 15 23:25:50 shaunmcdonald ericb2: what should I do about the PPC downloads not working?

Dec 15 23:25:52 mav_eric shaunmcdonald: you got the year right

Dec 15 23:25:59 ericb2 mav_eric: I think so, but I'll stop some days. Will be a good thing to take some hollidays ;-)

Dec 15 23:25:59 shaunmcdonald mav_eric: :-)

Dec 15 23:26:14 ericb2 Good niight  ! Dec 15 23:26:19 mav_eric ericb2: night

Dec 15 23:26:41 mav_eric ericb2: I leave at Dezember 22nd and at my parents no chance to get to IRC and other OOo stuff

Dec 15 23:26:42 * You have been marked as being away

Dec 15 23:26:46 ericb2 mc

Dec 15 23:26:58 * shaunmcdonald found a new trick for the bouncer http://openoffice.bouncer.osuosl.org/sentry/sentry.summary.html

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