Log Mac Meeting 9 Feb 2007

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Mac meetings February 2007

paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: so looks like many people are here and we can start

[21:07] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: great

[21:07] paveljanik: and we should in the menatime fill our agenda at

[21:07] shaunmcdonald: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings#Next_Meeting

[21:07] paveljanik: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings#Next_Meeting

[21:07] paveljanik:

[21:08] shaunmcdonald: We currently have 2 items on the adgenda

[21:08] shaunmcdonald: 1. Welcome new devs (if any)

[21:08] shaunmcdonald: 2. Python : continue to use system or not ? New extensions using Python 2.4 (maybe 2.5) wil be used.

[21:08] shaunmcdonald: Action Item : define and vote a choice

[21:08] shaunmcdonald: 3. ....[complete]

[21:08] paveljanik: I think we should add Tino's proposal there as well

[21:08] paveljanik: and ..

[21:09] paveljanik: and Aqua news are missing there

[21:09] shaunmcdonald: BTW for those who weren't here earlier, ericb2 cannot be here tonight

[21:09] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: good point, Aqua news seem to have been removed from previous weeks

[21:10] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: will you update the wiki page to save mid air clashes?

[21:10] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: yup

[21:10] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: thanks

[21:11] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: add 2.2 testing please

[21:11] paveljanik: done

[21:12] paveljanik: So let's start.

[21:12] paveljanik: (and reload before every agenda point

[21:14] plipli: • plipli is back and ready for meeting

[21:14] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: can you please manage the meeting?

[21:15] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: yes

[21:15] • shaunmcdonald has just got some munchies

[21:15] shaunmcdonald: 1. Welcome new devs (if any)

[21:16] paveljanik: Hi new devs!

[21:16] shaunmcdonald: plipli: Have we had a little intro from you?

[21:17] plipli: yes 2 weeks ago, but i can repeat if you want

[21:17] shaunmcdonald: plipli: ok I must have forgotten

[21:18] shaunmcdonald: who is yoink ?

[21:18] plipli: • plipli is 32, married, 2 daugthers, software engineer, knows C/C++/java/C#/XML/XSLT and happy to participate in OO mac porting adventure

[21:20] IZBot was promoted to operator by ChanServ.

[21:20] shaunmcdonald: shall we move onto the next item since we have no new developers here?

[21:20] jamesmckenzie was promoted to operator by ChanServ.

[21:20] paveljanik: yes

[21:20] shaunmcdonald: 2. Latest Aqua news

[21:21] paveljanik: plipli: ?

[21:21] plipli: I've been working on salatslayout

[21:21] plipli: I managed to remove deprecated code.

[21:22] plipli: Used same model as win implementation to store data about chars and glyph, in order to reuse code from win implementation

[21:23] plipli: salatslayout.cxx is ready to be tested. will need some fixing to adjust measures calculations if necessary.

[21:23] paveljanik: I spent some time this afternoon on debugging native menu crashes and produced small patch cleaning usage of return values from menu functions and fixing most of the trivial menu crashes. Patch posted to the list, waiting for testing.

[21:23] paveljanik: plipli: I already tested it and what it actually does is, that it fixed the problems with multi-lines.

[21:23] mav_eric_away: paveljanik: a build using your patches is running. Sadly I must have used the wrong -p

[21:23] paveljanik: plipli: great work!

[21:23] plipli: • plipli needs informations about where list box of font list is built in order to fix font display in font dropdown list.

[21:24] mav_eric_away: paveljanik: so I'll stop the build and see if I can fix it

[21:24] mav_eric_away is now known as mav_eric.

[21:24] tinor: plipli: What how to I see verify the result of your work?

[21:24] paveljanik: mav_eric: don't stop it, fix it manually and rebuild vcl in the background ;-0

[21:24] mav_eric: paveljanik: good idea

[21:24] plipli: tinor: i sent the salatslayout.cxx file on mac@porting

[21:25] paveljanik: tinor: plipli sent new salats*cxx file to the list, just replace it and compare e.g. FirstStartWizard.

[21:25] plipli: tinor: it goes in aqua/source/gdi and replace the old one

[21:25] yoink: shaunmcdonald: just someone interested in the project

[21:25] tinor: plipli: Yes, great! But I wanted to know whats the difference in user exp. now

[21:25] shaunmcdonald: yoink: great

[21:26] plipli: tinor: i dont know exprience before. but now you can type text, then select it (highlight does not work) and change size, font and see teh result

[21:27] tinor: plipli: Wow, I'm keen to test this

[21:27] paveljanik: IIRC highlighting could be problematic because we do not yet have invert, right?

[21:27] plipli: tinor: many fonts display correctly. native menus have correct text with underline on shortcuts char

[21:27] tinor: plipli: Thanks for you contribution

[21:27] plipli: paveljanik: IIRC ?

[21:27] tinor: plipli: This is great

[21:28] paveljanik: If I Remember Correctly

[21:28] paveljanik: tinor: +1

[21:28] plipli: + the font dialog in svtools display font list and font exampels correctly (except for some fonts). need tracking on taht problem

[21:29] plipli: paveljanik: what do u mean we don t have invert ?

[21:30] plipli: paveljanik: if highlighting implementation is needed, i ve just seen how to do it in apple docs about atsui

[21:30] paveljanik: plipli: I think that highlighting is done using "inversion" of the already drawn text. The problem is that we do not yet have a way to read what is drawn...

[21:31] plipli: paveljanik: i think the apple doc will help me about that. i ll make a try. do u know where highlighting is called from ?

[21:33] paveljanik: plipli: don't know, but set a breakpoint in AquaSalGraphics::invert and you'll probably see it.

[21:33] plipli: paveljanik: thanks

[21:36] paveljanik: ericb2: is working on cleanup of radio and check boxes.

[21:37] paveljanik: anything else?

[21:37] shaunmcdonald: Since this is aqua related http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/news/2007/20070203toptenbeforealpha.html

[21:37] shaunmcdonald: I still need to update the title and link it into the news index page, and add it to the RSS feed

[21:38] paveljanik: plipli: yes, invert is called during selection of text.

[21:39] plipli: paveljanik: in which file is this function ?

[21:39] paveljanik: plipli: aqua/source/gdi/salgdi.cxx

[21:41] paveljanik: it would be glad if regular aqua builders would test all posted patches so we can incorporate them.

[21:41] paveljanik: next point?

[21:42] tinor: paveljanik: Well, that's actually desirable I think

[21:43] plipli: paveljanik: i ll try to implement invert with apple indications it does not seems too difficult.. so code and see

[21:43] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: is the content of the above news piece ok, prior to me fully publishing it?

[21:44] tinor: paveljanik: If somebody has completed a more or less self-contained piece (if this is possible) he should aim at integrating that stuff, one or more people should make a bit of qa, review, something like a smoke test

[21:45] tinor: It makes non sense to integrate half baked stuff but keeping things to long out of the cws is also counterproductive IMO

[21:48] tinor: New functionality should make the version unusable, that means IMO no crashes at least, maybe we have some more criteria but in the current state of development we shouldn't be to strict maybe

[21:48] tinor: Opinions?

[21:50] shaunmcdonald: tinor: I'm not particularly involved in the aqua port at the moment, as long as new code continues to allow ooo to compile and run without problems there shouldn't be an issue for the code to be added

[21:50] tinor: shaunmcdonald: Thats certainly the most basic criteria!

[21:51] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: but the crashing baseline can make it hard for further implementations...

[21:51] shaunmcdonald: tinor: keeping things out the CWS for a long time can mean that there is extra patching, which can be a pain to setup and maintain on the bot

[21:51] paveljanik: I agree with the point.

[21:51] tinor: shaunmcdonald: I added crashes to the list because they for sure prevent others from continuing with their parts

[21:52] tinor: shaunmcdonald: Absolutely

[21:52] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: we are using version control, so as long as we can pin-point the code that make the crashes, we can find out who committed the code

[21:53] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: yes, but why should I spend my time on pin-pointing the bug in X, if I want to extend Y?

[21:54] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: that is a very valid point

[21:54] paveljanik: and right now, we have identified several types of crashes - lets fix them first before we continue. Nothing more

[21:54] paveljanik: One week?

[21:55] plipli: tinor: i agree with you we should not integrate code that causes crash in cws, because it blocks other devs. But as soon as it does not causes crash, we should integrate it so it can be tested further by other dev

[21:55] paveljanik: I'm sorry but I have a phonecall in 5 minutes, I'll join after the call is finished.

[21:55] tinor: plipli: Yes I agree!

[21:56] mav_eric: so basicly we neend a short notice from a dev that new code is/will be added

[21:56] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: only code that doesn't cause issues should be integrated (after peer review and testing)

[21:56] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: +1

[21:56] plipli: i think we should have a crash free base before making new implementation,

[21:56] mav_eric: if that's the case. Builders get the new code as patch/replacement and do the build

[21:56] plipli: otherwise we won t be able to test new implementation correctly

[21:56] paveljanik: mav_eric: patch to the list -> review, bot testing -> notes about it, comments -> new patch -> bots, testing -> OK -> commit

[21:57] mav_eric: paveljanik: exactly

[21:57] tinor: paveljanik: +1

[21:57] mav_eric: paveljanik: as we started today with the crash patches

[21:57] plipli: paveljanik: +1

[21:59] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: If it comes to my bot, I'm happy to check that it compiles, however I don't have the time to test my aqua builds myself

[22:00] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: if someone else wants to test my builds they are more than welcome to

[22:04] tinor: • tinor Is hungry need to grab something to eat, back in a sec

[22:09] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald hopes tinor won't be long since the next point is about his proposal

[22:09] shaunmcdonald: 3. Tino's proposal about freezing additional development to make aquavcl01 stable enough

[22:10] tinor left the chat room.

[22:10] shaunmcdonald: http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=mac&msgNo=4602

[22:12] tinor joined the chat room.

[22:12] tinor was promoted to operator by ChanServ.

[22:13] tinor: Back

[22:13] shaunmcdonald: tinor: Moving on to your proposal http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=mac&msgNo=4602

[22:13] tinor: ok

[22:14] shaunmcdonald: tinor: or has that been pretty much discussed already?

[22:14] tinor: shaunmcdonald: I almost think so

[22:14] shaunmcdonald: tinor: what would you like to add?

[22:15] tinor: If I'm not wrong we agreed that it makes sense to stabilize aquavcl01 first before we continue with other things, thats all

[22:15] tinor: and I don't think it has to take very long to get to that point

[22:16] tinor: Its just if nobody really takes ownership of this it doesn't happen

[22:16] tinor: if we all take ownership of this it should be done quickly (hopefully)

[22:16] shaunmcdonald: tinor: also start testing patches before committing to CWS

[22:17] tinor: and btw you can always learn a lot about OOo by debugging it

[22:17] tinor: shaunmcdonald: Yes

[22:17] shaunmcdonald: tinor: should we start a list of all patches that are due to be integrated into the CWS aquavcl01 soon?

[22:18] tinor: shaunmcdonald: Sounds like a good idea to me

[22:18] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: +1

[22:18] shaunmcdonald: tinor: then there will always be one point of reference for all code that is likely to be integrated in soon

[22:18] shaunmcdonald: have a new heading in the aqua build page?

[22:18] plipli: shaunmcdonald: +1

[22:18] tinor: shaunmcdonald: +1

[22:18] shaunmcdonald: and make sure that it is always updated

[22:19] tinor: shaunmcdonald: yes

[22:19] mav_eric: FYI vcl with latest patches compiled

[22:21] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald wants to start removing some of the old build dependancies from the Aqua build page http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AquaBuild to simplify it for new devs compiling aqua

[22:21] • shaunmcdonald wants to remove gnu copy and fink

[22:21] • shaunmcdonald also wants to remove the ant optional since it is already installed with the developer tools

[22:23] • shaunmcdonald thinks it would be an idea to remove the --with-gnu-cp option from the build.sh since it is no longer needed with m201 and later

[22:24] plipli: • plipli is going to sleep. cu later. good night

[22:25] shaunmcdonald: plipli: good night

[22:25] mav_eric: plipli: good night

[22:25] yoink left the chat room. ("Unlucky.")

[22:25] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: +1 for your ideas on updating build instructions

[22:26] damiend joined the chat room.

[22:27] damiend left the chat room. (Client Quit)

[22:27] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: I've added new section http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AquaBuild#List_of_Patches_requiring_testing_before_for_integration

[22:28] shaunmcdonald: all developers, please add links to your patches in this section

[22:31] • shaunmcdonald has updated the wiki page

[22:31] • shaunmcdonald thinks it's time to move on to the next item if there is anyone still around

[22:31] shaunmcdonald: 4. Python : continue to use system or not ? New extensions using Python 2.4 (maybe 2.5) wil be used.

[22:31] shaunmcdonald: Here we all need to vote Action Item : define and vote a choice

[22:33] plipli left the chat room.

[22:34] tinor: • tinor has no opinion on Python

[22:34] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald sees that the currently installed python in /usr/bin/python is 2.3.5

[22:40] shaunmcdonald: tinor: I think we should just postpone item 4 until next week

[22:40] shaunmcdonald: next item:

[22:40] shaunmcdonald: 5. 2.2 release and QA

[22:41] tinor: shaunmcdonald: yeah

[22:41] shaunmcdonald: This is the last item for this meeting

[22:41] paveljanik: who added python point?

[22:42] shaunmcdonald: tinor: maho in the past couple of days uploaded 2.2m6

[22:42] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: I think that was ericb2

[22:42] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/mwiki/index.php?title=Mac_OS_X_Port_Meetings&diff=24676&oldid=24398

[22:43] paveljanik: then he should first bring his point to the list to get it discussed.

[22:43] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: ok

[22:43] paveljanik: My opinion s that: ... and Apple has old version, so what?

[22:43] paveljanik: contact Apple?

[22:43] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: that will no doubt be updated with Leopard

[22:44] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: if developers upgrade python does this affect end users?

[22:44] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: this is an issue at the moment with Java

[22:45] shaunmcdonald: if you compile with Java 1.5, then you must have Java 1.5 on the user's machine

[22:46] shaunmcdonald: this means that if maho is using Java 1.5 instead of Java 1.4 to compile the official ooo, then we must set the requirements for OpenOffice.org for our users to be that they need to have Java 1.5 installed

[22:47] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: but this should be no big deal since Java 1.5 should be on every Mac by now via Software update

[22:47] paveljanik: yes.

[22:48] mav_eric: or am I wrong?

[22:48] paveljanik: so what about 2.2 release?

[22:48] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: start testing

[22:48] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: is m7 due to be the release candidate?

[22:49] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: there already are 2 additional bugs, and I do not know yet the pan for them - hopefully more info on Monday.

[22:49] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald is currently running the full suite of tests on Intel of the m6 build by maho

[22:49] paveljanik: but we should again take m6 as a RC0 for us and do all tests as if it is RC1.

[22:49] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: yes

[22:51] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: that's what I'm doing, that way when it comes to the next releases there should be fewer problems

[22:51] paveljanik: yes

[22:51] shaunmcdonald: the current product release is aimed at the end of the month according to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoRelease22

[22:52] mav_eric: • mav_eric will see if he can run some tests too over the weekend

[22:52] shaunmcdonald: I think jamesmckenzie is running the tests too, though I'm not sure if it's intel or ppc

[22:52] • shaunmcdonald can only run the tests on Intel

[22:53] paveljanik: good - at least one of you should also help us with testing aqua patches

[22:53] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald is only running the tests with the en-US build currently

[22:53] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: I can test whether they build or not

[22:53] paveljanik: they surely build

[22:54] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: I can upload the final product to the build master for someone else who cannot build ooo to test them, if they have an intel machine

[22:54] tinor: Good night!

[22:54] shaunmcdonald: tinor: night

[22:54] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: if James is also testing there would be no need for me doing the test so I may help aqua devs

[22:54] paveljanik: night

[22:54] tinor left the chat room. ("See you later")

[22:55] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: who will be doing the de lang tests?

[22:55] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: never mind them

[22:55] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: the last tests were done by five volunteers

[22:55] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: or are we only doing the full set of tests on en-US

[22:55] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: I see if I can catch at least one of them

[22:56] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: great

[22:56] • shaunmcdonald thinks it might be an idea to announce the testing on the mac platform

[22:56] • shaunmcdonald has added the builds to QATrack

[22:56] mav_eric: • mav_eric makes himself a short note that he informs german qa mailinglist tomorrow

[22:57] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald needs to get a list of langs that are built by maho, but not on the QATrack app

[23:01] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: is there something important to discuss left?

[23:01] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: next meeting?

[23:02] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: next friday same time same place?

[23:02] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: same time next week on 16 Feb same time same place

[23:03] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: agreed

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