Log Mac Meeting 8 June 2007

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[22:01] <shaunmcdonald> meeting?

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[22:02] <paveljanik> shaunmcdonald: yes

[22:03] <shaunmcdonald> paveljanik: or was it an hour ago?

[22:03] <paveljanik> shaunmcdonald: now.

[22:03] <puck> It didn't happen an hour ago, even thought the topic says it should have...

[22:03] <shaunmcdonald> puck: last week it was an idea to have it an hour earlier

[22:04] <shaunmcdonald> seems to have been a waste of time 1. Welcome new devs joining Mac OS X port

[22:04] <shaunmcdonald> 1. Welcome new devs joining Mac OS X port

[22:04] <cremlae> shaunmcdonald: I do believe that we all forgot...

[22:04] <shaunmcdonald> Are there any new devs here tonight?

[22:04] * amb_ has quit (Client Quit)

[22:04] <puck> I'm not a dev, but I'm a hanger on.

[22:06] * ericb2 away 15 min. Sorry

[22:07] <shaunmcdonald> puck: :-)

[22:07] <shaunmcdonald> 2. Last Aqua news / Work in progress

[22:08] <ismael_> i started my GSOC by implementing tabs

[22:08] <ismael_> tab looks now correct, i fixed the bug i mentionned in my blog

[22:09] <paveljanik> ismael_: great!

[22:09] <ismael_> there are no more offset between tabs when there are multiples lines

[22:09] <shaunmcdonald> ismael_: brilliant

[22:09] <shaunmcdonald> ismael_: do you have a new screenshot?

[22:09] <ismael_> i'm just uploading the patch which concerns aqua part and platform independant part of VCL

[22:10] <ismael_> there's still an offset of 1 pixel with the tap bane, but the tab control are OK

[22:10] <ismael_> so i will fix the tab pane

[22:11] <ismael_> the patch: http://lebasket.free.fr/OOo/08_06_07/patchAquaTabfull.diff

[22:12] <ismael_> and the screenshot: tabsOOo2.png

[22:13] <paveljanik> ismael_: looks great :-)

[22:14] <ismael_> tab controls have an height of 20 pixels and a offset between the border and the text of 12 pixels as mentionned in the AHIG

[22:14] <shaunmcdonald> ismael_: they look like the old style Mac OS X 10.2 and earlier tabs

[22:15] <ismael_> in the platform independant part of VCL, focused tabs have bold text but i don't think it's AHIG compliant, so i will see how to fix that

[22:15] * shaunmcdonald is asking before the public asks

[22:15] <ismael_> shaunmcdonald: i know, but i don't know yet how to change that

[22:17] <ismael_> for your information, Firefox in the preferences menu -> advanced options has the same tabs

[22:17] * shaunmcdonald checks firefox

[22:17] * shaunmcdonald uses Camino too often now

[22:17] <shaunmcdonald> ismael_: your right

[22:17] shaunmcdonald sky

[22:18] <ismael_> if someone know how to change this appearance, i'll be happy to learn it

[22:18] <ericb2> ismael_: I think this is the correct appearance

[22:18] <shaunmcdonald> ismael_: there is a lot you could teach me about programming on a mac ;-)

[22:19] <ericb2> ismael_: maybe kTheme* used or Tab type is not the correct one

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[22:19] <shaunmcdonald> could it be Carbon/Cocoa problem?

[22:19] <ericb2> ismael_: can you commit the changes ?

[22:19] <ericb2> ismael_: I'll ask during WWDC

[22:20] <ismael_> ericb2: in the AHIG pages, the screenshots have the style shaunmcdonald mention

[22:20] <ismael_> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGControls/chapter_18_section_7.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000359-TPXREF105

[22:20] <ericb2> ismael_: there is a salnativewidget.h in aqua/cin, and I'd suggest ou put the defines inside

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[22:21] <ismael_> ericb2: i modified the platform independant part of vcl, so that tabctrl.cxx calls getNativeContentRegion avoiding the offset

[22:21] <shaunmcdonald> ismael_: looking in Interface builder, it isn't a Cocoa/Carbon issue

[22:21] <ericb2> ismael_: HISegmentedView ?

[22:21] <ericb2> ismael_: ask pl to be sure everything is ok

[22:21] <ismael_> ericb2: np

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[22:23] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: do you have a screenshot showing the tabs you have in mind ?

[22:23] <ismael_> ericb2: you have them in the AHIG screenshots

[22:23] <ismael_> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGControls/chapter_18_section_7.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000359-TPXREF105

[22:23] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: could be segmented views

[22:23] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: they are in the link ismael_ gave above

[22:24] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: Tab views ?

[22:24] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: yes

[22:26] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: segmented control would be used for things like the alignment buttons

[22:27] <ericb2> ismael_: I'll have a look in kHITheme*

[22:27] <CerebrosuS> btw. hi at all, i'm still working on my issue 77556, cause not much time this week. But i'm on work. Only as Information for you all.

[22:28] <IZBot> porting DEFECT STARTED Tools-Customize-Keyboard - keys not shown http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=77556

[22:28] <ericb2> CerebrosuS: do you have some tracks, or something ?

[22:28] <ismael_> ericb2: the functions i use need macOS 10.3 at leats, and the style of the tabs i have is macOS10.2 style, strange?

[22:29] <CerebrosuS> tracks? mom, ... i need a translation.

[22:29] <ericb2> ismael_: because of some ald appearance effect

[22:29] <ericb2> s/ald/old/

[22:29] <ismael_> ericb2: altough the function is quite recent ?

[22:30] <ericb2> ismael_: I'll investigate

[22:31] <paveljanik> other aqua news?

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[22:31] <ericb2> yes, a lot. Let me retrieve the changelog

[22:32] <ericb2> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb#Changelog

[22:32] <ericb2> see the last week

[22:32] <ericb2> I'll complete for today : Herbert implemented a new feature to retrieve fonts form system. H+e completed the font map too

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[22:33] <CerebrosuS> oh sure ericb2 changed some code for analysing if it is a problem in handling app or mac direkt, ... but i got an compile error, ... so tomorrow i will know from which way it comes

[22:33] * cloph_away is now known as cloph

[22:33] <CerebrosuS> currently i'm in sfx2

[22:33] <CerebrosuS> but I#m on a good way i thing

[22:34] <ericb2> CerebrosuS: thanks :)

[22:34] <ericb2> CerebrosuS: if you need help, ask on the channel : we will try to help

[22:34] <CerebrosuS> sure

[22:35] <ericb2> if you have questions about the changelog, please ask

[22:36] <ericb2> Philipp implemented a new AquaSalGraphics btw, impressive chanes, with one remaining issue IMHO : refresh is not correct, and we see either black frames or garbage. We will investigate during WWDC

[22:36] <ericb2> s/chanes/changes/

[22:37] <ericb2> from today, aqua OpenOffice.org uses system font

[22:38] <ericb2> other important thing : I have discoverd formula works fine, just opensymbol.ttf font was missing

[22:38] <puck> We have a large organisation in .nz that is quite interested in the aqua port (which is why I'm here). We're watching things with great interest.

[22:38] <ericb2> I have explained hdu how add fonts from OpenOffice.org , and he implemented a new method to allow us to add other fonts

[22:38] <ericb2> puck: great :)

[22:39] * grahaml (n=yorick@219-88-13-13.dialup.xtra.co.nz) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:39] <ericb2> last important change is : resync with m214

[22:39] <ericb2> now new chart is inside :)

[22:39] <shaunmcdonald> puck: I think millions are interested, going by the media and blogger interest that we have generated

[22:39] <ericb2> next resync, tango icons will be

[22:39] <puck> shaunmcdonald, aye

[22:41] <shaunmcdonald> 3. Start aquavcl01 cws integration (part2)

[22:41] * ericb2 will add last WWDC news in misc

[22:41] * ericb2 has news

[22:41] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: we can go with aquavcl01 integration

[22:42] <ericb2> as I told Pavel , aquavcl01 is too big, and should be integrated

[22:42] <ericb2> 18 modules is too much

[22:42] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: are we best to wait until after the 2.3 code freeze if it hasn't happened already?

[22:42] <ericb2> other drawback : we are stuck to create new cws for other features to be integrated

[22:43] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: IMHO start asap shouldn't hurt ;)

[22:43] <paveljanik> yes.

[22:43] <shaunmcdonald> just in case our changes affect other platforms

[22:43] <paveljanik> I'll put this on top of my TODO list.

[22:43] <ericb2> paveljanik: I'll help if needed

[22:43] <paveljanik> the first thing is to get tinderboxes build it on all platforms...

[22:44] <paveljanik> and we have to got the cws itself into integratable state. No FIXMEs in paltform independent code etc...

[22:44] <paveljanik> in the meantime, we can start eliminating modules from the cws by doing separate/correct cwses for the fixes...

[22:45] <shaunmcdonald> paveljanik: isn't it already being automatically being compiled on the tinderboxes/buildbots for all available platforms?

[22:45] <paveljanik> shaunmcdonald: maybe it is. Do we have results somewhere/up to date?

[22:46] <shaunmcdonald> paveljanik: aquavcl01 was started so long ago that some of the tinderboxes on http://eis.services.openoffice.org/EIS2/cws.ShowCWS?Path=SRC680%2Faquavcl01 no longer exist

[22:47] <shaunmcdonald> there have been some very recent commits thus the purple

[22:47] <shaunmcdonald> the yellow is build started on some of the buildbots that should be simply ignored

[22:49] <paveljanik> I'll prepare an analyze of aquavcl01 for the next meeting

[22:50] <cloph> The linux tinderbox died - so the only tinderbox that is left is the Mac one.

[22:50] <ericb2> paveljanik: thank you for your time

[22:50] <cloph> But there are now buildbots that report the logs to tinderbox

[22:51] <grahaml> For those who don't know me... which is probably most.  :) I'm OOo MarCon for New Zealand. The NZ Government has recently cut funding for MSO on Mac and been touting NeoOffice as an alternative.

[22:51] <paveljanik> cloph: I'll probably build aquavcl01 on all my platforms to see the result.

[22:51] <grahaml> Unfortunately this happened probably about a month too soon

[22:51] <ericb2> paveljanik: what can we do to help ?

[22:52] <paveljanik> ericb2: you can e.g. build it on Windows or Solaris/SPARC 8)

[22:52] <ericb2> paveljanik: 8)

[22:52] <paveljanik> or build X11 and do all the tests on aquavcl01...

[22:53] <ericb2> paveljanik: I have one linux X86_64

[22:53] <ericb2> paveljanik: can this help ?

[22:53] <ericb2> paveljanik: + one Linux PowerPC

[22:53] <paveljanik> Linux PPC would help here.

[22:53] <paveljanik> I do have other platforms as well

[22:53] <ericb2> grahaml: thanks for the presentation and your work for free softwares

[22:53] <paveljanik> but before doing so, I'll do read-QA ;-)

[22:54] <grahaml> I'm having a meeting with the Contractor who looks after Mac in Education for the Ministry of Education and we have told them to slow down that the OOo Aqua port is not that far off

[22:56] <grahaml> However, at this meeting I would like to have some sort of approximate timeline.... even a "hoped for" one

[22:56] <shaunmcdonald> grahaml: they are more than welcome to donate devs to us

[22:56] <grahaml> Progress so far has been spectacular

[22:56] <ericb2> grahaml: there is a lot of work remaining before we'll have someting usable. I prefer let you know

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[22:56] <grahaml> Yep That will be my push

[22:57] <grahaml> They do have some available

[22:57] <shaunmcdonald> grahaml: beta for the last quarter; stable first half of next year is my personal current prediction

[22:57] <ericb2> grahaml: developers are welcome, right

[22:57] <grahaml> Puck, who is here with us works as a developer with Catalyst IT here in NZ

[22:57] <shaunmcdonald> grahaml: buildbot style machines on any platform are also useful

[22:58] <ericb2> grahaml: I'll write a list of missing

[22:58] <ericb2> grahaml: better than timeline

[22:58] <grahaml> shaunmacdonald: Email me a list of the requirements

[22:58] <grahaml> ericb: excellent

[22:58] <puck> buildbot boxes might be able to be arranged.

[22:59] <shaunmcdonald> grahaml: for the buildbots?

[22:59] <grahaml> shaunmcdonald yes yorick_@openoffice.org

[22:59] <ericb2> grahaml: this list is not complete, but does probably list 95% of the need : http://www.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua

[23:00] <grahaml> I'll pass this on

[23:00] <shaunmcdonald> grahaml: your username has an underscore in it?

[23:00] <grahaml> Ericb: excellent

[23:00] <grahaml> yes

[23:00] <grahaml> sorry an affectation for which I should know better

[23:01] <grahaml> :)

[23:01] <shaunmcdonald> no problem, someone has to be the first :-)

[23:02] <grahaml> If we can get the contractor on board there is a chance of Govt Funding

[23:03] * dave_largo has quit ("Client exiting")

[23:03] <grahaml> We can demonstrate savings in the millions of dollars. The Ministry IT people are very OSS friendly

[23:04] <grahaml> However I was concerned that their support of NeoOffice could be problematic. OOo has a corporate culture and commercial background which would make Govt dept a little more comfortable

[23:05] <shaunmcdonald> grahaml: that's better than the UK Government's response to a petition on OpenDocument

[23:05] <shaunmcdonald> grahaml: I think they will have looked at it from a user's perspective

[23:06] <grahaml> shaunmcdonald: Yes I noticed although BECTA has a more positive view in the Education space

[23:06] <grahaml> Exactly yes, X11 port was not an option

[23:06] <paveljanik> next point?

[23:07] <grahaml> This initiative is an option

[23:07] <shaunmcdonald> 4. OOoCon 2007 : Mac OS x port proposal

[23:07] <grahaml> I have links many thanks for your time

[23:08] <ericb2> grahaml: you are welcome

[23:08] <grahaml> I will call into the next meeting with updates

[23:09] <ericb2> grahaml: FYI, we log all meetings : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs

[23:10] <grahaml> Heh Yes I was supposed to do that. Been a mad week

[23:10] <grahaml> ericb: Cheers, Thanks

[23:13] <paveljanik> ericb2: point 4?

[23:13] <shaunmcdonald> 4. OOoCon 2007 : Mac OS x port proposal

[23:13] <shaunmcdonald> I have submitted 2 proposals

[23:14] <shaunmcdonald> 1 co-written with mikeleib on the buildbots

[23:14] <ericb2> paveljanik: I proposed a paper, about Mac port, Herbert Duerr will propose one and we discussed the content

[23:14] <paveljanik> will propose?

[23:14] <paveljanik> isn't the deadline already over?

[23:14] <shaunmcdonald> the other a lightning talk on the possibility of using cross-platform language packs

[23:14] <ericb2> paveljanik: probably, but would be dumb if his proposal will be refused

[23:15] <paveljanik> ericb2: dumb?

[23:15] <shaunmcdonald> paveljanik: there is space for topical probosals

[23:15] <ericb2> paveljanik: silly ?

[23:15] <shaunmcdonald> proposals

[23:16] * ericb2 proposal it the third part about native port

[23:16] <ericb2> is

[23:17] <ericb2> + I had in mind to present aqua version in runtime, and present either missing features / explain technical points about them. Or the same features implemented, if ever

[23:18] <ericb2> ismael_: did you propose someting about G SoC ?

[23:19] <paveljanik> will we have some meeting at the conference?

[23:19] <ismael_> ericb2: no, as i'm not sure to be able to attend

[23:19] <ericb2> paveljanik: no idea, but would be great

[23:20] <paveljanik> so let's organize it ;-)

[23:24] <paveljanik> maybe we should talk about the date later - when the schedule is populated ;-)

[23:25] <shaunmcdonald> paveljanik: that should happen once the team decides which papers should go through to presentation stage

[23:25] <paveljanik> I can imagine it e.g. on Thursday, 21:00-03:00 ;-)

[23:25] <shaunmcdonald> paveljanik: :-)

[23:28] <shaunmcdonald> http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=conference&msgNo=1895 http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=conference&msgNo=1900 for the current status of the papers/sessions

[23:30] <paveljanik> next point?

[23:31] <shaunmcdonald> 5. Misc

[23:31] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: WWDC?

[23:32] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: yes. Philipp and me will attend tomorrow.

[23:32] <shaunmcdonald> leave tomorrow?

[23:32] <shaunmcdonald> (it doesn't start until Monday)

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[23:34] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: we already will have 3 meetings with Apple people : one about Free software and what we can expect from Apple (I'll insist for announces ..etc ), one with Carbon experts, about events, drawing, frames ..etc, and one about User Interface, to define objectives for the Mac port

[23:34] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: brilliant

[23:34] <puck> nice

[23:34] <ericb2> + questions without answers we have

[23:35] <ericb2> most of the time, we wil be in Labs, instead of confs

[23:35] <shaunmcdonald> on ooo 2.3 and aqua, I still haven't got issue 74957 sorted yet

[23:35] <IZBot> porting DEFECT NEW Update .DS_Store file for OpenOffice.org 2.3 release http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi? id=74957

[23:35] <ericb2> everything (excepted the rendez-vous with Ernest Prabakhar), is described on my wiki page

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[23:36] <ericb2> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb#Mac_OS_X_porter_Team_at_WWDC_2007

[23:36] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: and you didn't tell me what do for readme4macintel cws to be resync'edc [23:36] <ismael__> ericb2: i added a question for WWDC concerning text edit

[23:36] ismael_ ismael__

[23:36] <ismael__> but i have to test again some things

[23:36] <ericb2> ismael__: shoot

[23:37] <ismael__> ericb2: it is already in the wiki

[23:37] <ericb2> ismael_thanks

[23:37] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: I thought I had sent the mail to say to use your suggestion

[23:37] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: ok

[23:38] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: but I'll do in the week probably

[23:38] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: I'll have to prepare everything tonight

[23:38] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: thanks

[23:39] <ericb2> I forgot : Sebastien is already present in San Francisco since the 3rd June  :)

[23:39] <ericb2> no jet lag for him ...

[23:40] <ericb2> that's all I had to say

[23:40] <ericb2> about WWDC weekly news :)

[23:40] <ericb2> next infos on my blog :)

[23:40] <ericb2> or plipli, or pl

[23:41] <ericb2> Other points to be treated in misc ?

[23:42] <ericb2> Next meeting : Friday 15th June, same hour ? (will be the end of WWDC )

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