Log Mac Meeting 6 April 2007

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[22:00] ericb2 Can we start the Meeting ?

[22:00] boulifb I'm ready

[22:00] mikesic ericb2: go

[22:01] ericb2 Ok, lets' go

[22:01] ericb2 Point 1: . Welcome new devs

[22:01] * shaunmcdonald is back

[22:01] shaunmcdonald we have 2 new devs floating around this evening

[22:02] ericb2 and usually, they are invited to present themselves.

[22:02] shaunmcdonald boulifb: would you like to give a little introduction of who you are, what you do and how you can help the Mac port

[22:02] boulifb sure

[22:03] boulifb I'm a prefessional developer for 10 years by now

[22:03] boulifb I'm french, 34 years old

[22:04] boulifb I'm currently working in a company that supplies backup solutions as software and hardware

[22:04] boulifb Until last october I was working on PCs under Windows

[22:04] boulifb so I have Windows background knowledge

[22:05] boulifb I switched to Macintosh world because I was fedup with bad working PCs (and system)

[22:05] ericb2 boulifb: this is interesting, because we - partially - adapt Window implementation, and your knowledge will sure help us.

[22:06] boulifb As hardware, I switched to:

[22:06] boulifb - Mac Pro (quad core)

[22:06] boulifb - MacBook Pro 15" (standard)

[22:06] boulifb ACD 23" as screen

[22:06] boulifb and iPod 80GB ;)

[22:07] boulifb I have MCSD certification in VC++ 6

[22:07] boulifb and work in computers since Vic 20

[22:07] boulifb my main hobby is programming on calculators

[22:08] boulifb HP calculators mainly in Assembler

[22:08] boulifb and TI calculators in C

[22:08] boulifb if you want further information, just ask me

[22:08] shaunmcdonald boulifb: that was a very good introduction

[22:09] mikesic boulifb: I have a project on TI - I will talk to you :)

[22:09] boulifb mikesic: I'm working on the TokiTori project too ;)

[22:09] * shaunmcdonald sees that mehemiah isn't back yet

[22:09] boulifb I hope it'll be finished one day

[22:09] * thorsten_away is now known as thorsten

[22:09] * shaunmcdonald has many projects that he hopes to finish some day ;-)

[22:12] * ericb2 recently received an HP 50 g

[22:13] shaunmcdonald Lets move on to the next item

[22:13] shaunmcdonald 2. Latest Aqua news

[22:13] ericb2 mikesic: ?

[22:14] mikesic Would you like a short update on tooltip bugs?

[22:14] ericb2 mikesic: please

[22:15] mikesic I tried to see what was the minimum events to remove to prevent the crashes.

[22:16] mikesic For me, I can do it just removing one, HandleWindowBoundsChangedEvent

[22:17] mikesic I have attached a patch to issue 74392 for testing, since others may have some crashes with other events.

[22:17] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW aquavcl01: tooltip crash http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=74392

[22:17] boulifb events are the equivalent of messages in Carbon, right?

[22:17] mikesic I have made the patch so you can easily comment out events that might cause a crash, for a final change it can be simpler.

[22:17] mikesic boulifb: yes

[22:18] mikesic For the other problem - missing 2 and following lines

[22:18] ericb2 I know Tino worked on that in the begining of Aqua

[22:19] ericb2 and to understand the context, I'd suggest this link : http://search.lists.apple.com/?q=rachui&cmd=Search%21

[22:19] mikesic I found the problem in SalATSLayout

[22:20] mikesic ATSUSetTextPointerLocation

[22:21] boulifb mikesic: it's about rendering text?

[22:22] mikesic boulifb: yes, the rendering code was always looking at only the first line in the paragraph.

[22:22] mikesic The patch allows it to look at the line that is being requested.

[22:22] mikesic That's it :)

[22:23] boulifb ok I see

[22:23] boulifb it's about a paragraph indent problem?

[22:23] ericb2 mikesic: thank you very much !

[22:23] mikesic boulifb: I can explain it offline  :)

[22:23] boulifb ok

[22:24] ericb2 other Aqua news ?

[22:25] * pjout (n=paveljan@89-24-4-80.customers.t-mobile.cz) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:25] ericb2 FYI, Oliver proposed a ptach to replace Pavel's script

[22:26] shaunmcdonald pjout: got any aqua news?

[22:26] ericb2 issue 73693

[22:26] pjout no

[22:26] IZBot porting DEFECT STARTED aquavcl01->modify Bundle tree for native version http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73693

[22:26] shaunmcdonald ericb2: so we will be able to run ooo out the box :-)

[22:26] ericb2 and I have modified AquaBuld wiki page, inviting people to use it

[22:26] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes we are :)

[22:27] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: but the code will probably be committed once we resync'ed with m207

[22:28] ericb2 pjout: do you have a date for next resync ?

[22:29] pjout no, but now iI have motivation - Oliver's change...

[22:29] pjout m208 contains some vcl changes, so...

[22:31] ericb2 no other Aqua news ?

[22:31] shaunmcdonald 3. Top 10 Status

[22:32] shaunmcdonald As per above, after the next resync we will have another important one done

[22:32] ericb2 I wrote a document about Top 10

[22:33] ericb2 A) Issues Verified Fixed

[22:33] ericb2 1) Issue 73691 : Calc does instant crashes http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73691

[22:33] IZBot porting PATCH VERIFIED FIXED aquavcl01-> calc does instant crashes in some situations http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73691

[22:33] ericb2 2) Issue 73692 : isOffScreen() implementation http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73692

[22:33] IZBot porting DEFECT RESOLVED FIXED aquavcl01 -> BitBlt() function to be implemented http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73692

[22:33] ericb2 3) 73693 : make Bundle directly usable at buildtime : http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73693

[22:33] ericb2 Note : need resync with m207 , since things moved from desktop to instsetoo_native, but current patch is ok

[22:33] IZBot issue 73693: porting DEFECT STARTED aquavcl01->modify Bundle tree for native version

[22:33] ericb2 4) Issue 73694 : accented chars and TSM handling : http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73694

[22:33] IZBot porting DEFECT VERIFIED FIXED aquavcl01-> accented chars and keys in keyboard are missing http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73694

[22:34] ericb2 no comment about this one ?

[22:34] ericb2 looks like Ismael found some problem

[22:34] ericb2 5) Issue 73690 : fix missing cursor http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73690

[22:35] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW aquavcl01-> fix missing cursor http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73690

[22:35] ericb2 B) Issues with status to be clarified :

[22:35] ericb2 6) Issue 72250 : toolbar icon click -> crash with native menus http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=72250

[22:35] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW aquavcl01: toolbar icon click -> crash with native menus http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=72250

[22:35] ericb2 cannot reproduce the crash, but ...

[22:35] ericb2 7) Issue 73687 : implement missing functions for fonts http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73687

[22:35] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW aquavcl01-> implement missing functions for fonts http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73687

[22:35] ericb2 Comment : enter text does not work correctly yet and needs some rework

[22:35] ericb2 8) Issue 73689 : fix redrawing/refresh issue on Aqua version

[22:35] ericb2 Comment : plipli work using HIView IMHO fixed that. Work in progress

[22:36] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW aquavcl01-> fix redrawing/refresh issue on Aqua version http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73689

[22:36] ericb2 the last part does concern Issues not fixed, but work in progress

[22:36] ericb2 C) Not fixed, but work in progress :

[22:36] ericb2 9) Issue 73688 : use default system font instead of helvetica in aqua http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73688

[22:36] ericb2 10) Issue 72248 : vcl compiled with debug crashes http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=72248

[22:36] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW aquavcl01->use default system font instead of helvetica in aqua http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73688

[22:36] IZBot porting DEFECT STARTED vcl compiled with debug crashes http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=72248

[22:37] ericb2 I know Tino works on that, and thinks this is a memory or something issue

[22:37] ericb2 That's all the informations I have for Top 10

[22:38] mikesic ericb2: I have a question about keys

[22:38] * shaunmcdonald thinks will will be on track to have the alpha out on time http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/timeline.html

[22:39] mikesic ericb2: The issue raised was that Ctrl - C, X, V worked for copy, cut and paste is this right?

[22:39] mikesic ericb2: and for Mac Aqua they should not

[22:40] ericb2 mikesic: this is a big mess in OpenOffice.org and we will have to clarify

[22:40] mikesic ericb2: I was looking at it, but I didn't want to do anything until the desired behavior is clarified.

[22:41] ericb2 mikesic: currently, there is a hack, used to allow CTRL or Apple key doing the same job : CTRL-C or Apple + C do the same

[22:42] ericb2 mikesic: more uggly, we had to remap ALT key because of X11 bug

[22:43] ericb2 mikesic: if you want I still have my old patch, and we could try to reverse it (if interesting )

[22:43] ericb2 mikesic: maybe the cause is elsewhere

[22:44] mikesic ericb2: for naive Mac users, I think enabling the Ctrl key will be confusing.

[22:45] ericb2 mikesic: I know. The current mapping needs some love

[22:45] mikesic ericb2: but for those moving from Mac + X11, it may be different.

[22:46] mikesic Using OOo on Mac + X11, I mean.

[22:46] ericb2 mikesic: FYI, I have tested the current possibilities

[22:47] ericb2 mikesic: on my wiki page, there is a comparizon with TextEdit

[22:47] ericb2 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb#Keyboard_comparizon_between_OpenOffice.org_.2F_Mac_OS_X__application

[22:47] mikesic ericb2: But how can we do some useability testing? to see what would be ggod for OOo users?

[22:48] mikesic s/ggod/good/

[22:48] ericb2 mikesic: providing Aqua build to be tested by newbies

[22:48] ericb2 mikesic: and write a todo

[22:48] mikesic ericb2: agreed

[22:48] ericb2 mikesic: they sure will find everything missing

[22:49] ericb2 Next point ?

[22:49] ericb2 4. Patches to be integrated

[22:50] shaunmcdonald there are non currently listed

[22:50] shaunmcdonald there is one to be done after resync of aquavcl01

[22:54] ericb2 Next point ?

[22:55] ericb2 not sure : 5. User request : provide a migration tool as suggested in [issue 75637]

[22:59] pjout we should really focus on our goals...

[23:01] shaunmcdonald ericb2: I've been busy on other things, so not got anywhere on this one

[23:01] * shaunmcdonald has come across users with this problem on the oooforum

[23:02] shaunmcdonald 6. Universal Binary

[23:02] shaunmcdonald pjout: any more progress?

[23:03] pjout yup, I have now finally thought about final solution to bridges.

[23:04] * ericb2 volunteer to test

[23:04] pjout I'll create an interim cws renaming shared files accordingly in both Intel and ppc dirs.

[23:05] pjout and I can then continue.

[23:06] pjout with this I'll be able to build UB on Intel.

[23:06] pjout then we can start debugging it.

[23:06] mikesic ericb2: I notice you have been working on Panther build - will we also be able to have one version for Panther - Tiger - Leopard?

[23:07] ericb2 mikesic: I fixed the issue - with Oliver help - this afternoon

[23:07] boulifb I have to go guys, I'll be there tomorrow

[23:07] boulifb have a good night

[23:07] ericb2 mikesic: yes, I think Panther builds will do 10.3 to 10.5

[23:07] boulifb @+

[23:07] ericb2 boulifb: good night

[23:07] shaunmcdonald boulifb: night

[23:07] mikesic boulifb: good night

[23:07] ericb2 mikesic: no idea for UB

[23:07] ericb2 mikesic: gcc-3.3 is not previsible :)

[23:08] mikesic ericb2: It seems like it would be dsireable - simpler for everyone distributing and using - if possible.

[23:08] ericb2 pjout: what is your opinion ?

[23:08] shaunmcdonald if it would be able to run on Panther, it would only be Mac OS X 10.3.9

[23:09] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: this is 10.3

[23:09] shaunmcdonald Mac OS X 10.3.9 is able to run UB as long as the required libraries are available

[23:10] pjout we have decided that our baseline is Tiger so I still do not get why you all are working on making it work on zpanther... Or do we need to reconsider?

[23:11] <ericb2> pjout: I had a big demand

[23:11] <ericb2> pjout: waiting Leopard

[23:11] <shaunmcdonald> pjout: or old hardware or not got the money to upgrade to tiger

[23:11] <pjout> another reason to stop supporting older system...

[23:12] * shaunmcdonald thinks we didn't make a big enough fanfare about the dropping of Panther support

[23:12] <ericb2> pjout: do you stop to support old file formats so fast ?

[23:12] <mikesic> I think that open source is attractive to users with old hardware and no money - they are the customers.

[23:12] <pjout> if no developer is using them, yes.

[23:13] <mikesic> Like an entertainer - a developer likes an audience.

[23:13] <pjout> we tend to loose focus...

[23:13] <ericb2> pjout: not sure : 10.3 to 10.5 and maybe UB is a good thing

[23:13] * shaunmcdonald thinks many of the developers are lucky to be running such new hardware compared to the users

[23:14] <ericb2> pjout: no 2.2 for Panther was an error

[23:14] <pjout> UB is low prio as well... noX11 is our prrio as agreed in the past...

[23:15] <ericb2> pjout: we have to maintain both waiting

23:16] <ericb2> Next point ?

[23:16] <shaunmcdonald> 7. Prepare OOoCon2007 : propose a Mac topic ? Reserve rooms, or a house for the Team ..etc

[23:16] <pjout> no, we have to go to bed and start carbon coding...

[23:17] <ericb2> pjout: promised, the next week, new code will arrive

[23:19] <ericb2> FYI, for the one interested to propose something for OOoCon2007, I started a draft on my page. And the call for papers is on ...

[23:20] <ericb2> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb#Mac_OS_X_porter_Team_at_OOoCon_2007

[23:21] <shaunmcdonald> all the papers need to be in by 1st July 2007 to be definitely considered, it is better to get them in early, rather than leave it to the last minute

[23:24] <ericb2> Next point ?

[23:26] * thorsten is now known as thorsten_away

[23:26] <ericb2> If nobody objects, I'd to finish with misc questions, talking about Google SoC and WWDC and Cusoon

[23:26] <shaunmcdonald> ok

[23:27] <ericb2> Google SoC : things are not clear at all, and I posted what I think about the Ranking Process on mentoring mailing list

[23:27] <ericb2> IMHO, we have not a real chance to have an application for Mac OS X port

[23:28] * TheoCryst (n=TheoCrys@ip72-211-149-241.tc.ph.cox.net) has joined #ooo_macport

[23:29] * TheoCryst_ (n=TheoCrys@ip72-211-148-93.tc.ph.cox.net) has joined #ooo_macport

[23:29] <ericb2> About WWDC, I have asked Louis Suarez Potts and Laurent Godard , from CC to ask some help ( 2000 euros ) for the expenses

[23:29] <pjout> we ha d a chance last year. what code was produced except fullscreen function?

[23:30] <ericb2> pjout: last year, it was the begining

[23:30] <ericb2> pjout: and nobody proposed to mentor when I asked

[23:30] <ericb2> pjout: this year, we have good candidates like Ismael

[23:31] <ericb2> or other (I don't remember all )

[23:31] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: did you get any good contact at last years WWDC?

[23:31] <ericb2> pjout: do you remember how it was, just some years ago ?

[23:31] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: yes, I think so

[23:31] <ericb2> pjout: and I don't appreciate "we had a chance"

[23:31] <pjout> we had a good candidate last year as well...

[23:32] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: good, so it was useful going :-)

[23:32] <ericb2> pjout: we should think for future

[23:32] <mikesic> ericb2: Is the proposal from OOo already made to Google?

[23:32] <ericb2> instead of past

[23:32] <shaunmcdonald> mikesic: yes

[23:32] <ericb2> mikesic: yes, things are well advanced

[23:32] <shaunmcdonald> mikesic: the student have already submitted their applications

[23:32] <pjout> I already expressed my opinion on wwdc several times and on discuss at council as well.

[23:33] <ericb2> pjout: one more time, this year, when I asked for mentors, I didn't receive too much proposal

[23:33] <ericb2> pjout: where are all sunnies ?

[23:33] <mikesic> shaunmcdonald: So for SOC this year is there anything to be done to advance the Mac cause?

[23:34] * plipli (n=splisson@ has joined #ooo_macport

[23:34] <shaunmcdonald> mikesic: I'm not sure anything else can be done to help the mac port just now in GSOC

[23:35] <mikesic> shaunmcdonald: OK :(

[23:35] <ericb2> mikesic: I don't think so. Even SVG filter doesn't have a real chance to be selected. This is a pity

[23:36] <mikesic> ericb2: What about for WWDC. Is there a mail I can write to someone to let them know its more than Eric and pjout who think OOo should be there?

[23:36] <pjout> mikesic: ?

[23:36] <ericb2> mikesic: pkjout is opposed, so we have no cance to expect something from CC

[23:36] <shaunmcdonald> mikesic: pjout thinks that we should go to WWDC

[23:36] <ericb2> s/cance/chance/

[23:37] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: I don't think so

[23:37] <mikesic> pjout: sorry, I misunderstood our position

[23:37] <pjout> we should first deliver some results to expect more help...

[23:37] <mikesic> s/our/your/

[23:37] * shaunmcdonald is too tired

[23:37] <shaunmcdonald> s/should/should not

[23:37] <pjout> it is unfair to other subprojects inside OOo..

[23:38] <ericb2> pjout: Mac port is one of the most active, or not ?

[23:38] <shaunmcdonald> pjout: with a month or two get the alpha Aqua out the door

[23:38] <ericb2> pjout: 15millions of potential users, is maybe not enough

[23:38] <pjout> no. the most active is sw, xml, ...

[23:39] <pjout> then we should sppend all money on vq's windows machines...

[23:39] <ericb2> from my side, I stop to try to discuss, but I'll try to find some help

[23:39] <ericb2> external help, to fund WWDC

[23:40] <ericb2> last but not least, we received some donations, on Cusoon paypal

[23:40] <TheoCryst_> sorry for jumping in suddenly, but things aren't looking good for the mac port and SoC?

[23:40] <shaunmcdonald> TheoCryst: looks that way

[23:40] * ericb2 wonders what the CC is made for ...

[23:41] <TheoCryst_> too bad

[23:41] <ericb2> slown, not transparent

[23:41] <ericb2> slow

[23:42] <pjout> any evidence to your statements?

[23:43] <ericb2> slow : sure

[23:43] * plipli has quit ()

[23:45] <ericb2> Other questions ?

[23:45] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: isn't progress slow in any democracy?

[23:46] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: he he

[23:46] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: are we in democraty ?

[23:47] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: isn't the cc the democratic part of ooo ?

[23:47] <ericb2> Other questions ?

[23:48] <shaunmcdonald> Date/time of next meeting

[23:48] * Fridrich (n=fridrich@ has joined #ooo_macport

[23:48] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fridrich

[23:48] <shaunmcdonald> do we want to move to the saturday again for next week?

[23:48] * TheoCryst has quit (Success)

[23:49] <ericb2> we can try

[23:49] <mikesic> Sat is OK with me

[23:50] * ericb2 just forgot to annouce we received between 400 and 500 euros donated by several users, using Paypal button. Sophie Gautier will give me the exact amount soon

[23:50] <shaunmcdonald> I don't mind which day it is on

[23:51] <ericb2> +1 for saturday for me

[23:53] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: the conclusion ?

[23:54] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: undecided, not enough people have voted

[23:55] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: so we should count the number of people willing to attend on saturday

[23:55] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: there is nothing against having it on the Saturday next week, so, lets go for Saturday

[23:55] <shaunmcdonald> s/nothing/no one

[23:56] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: ok, let's try

[23:56] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: the log is available

[23:56] * mikesic has quit ()

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