Log Mac Meeting 5 September 2007
Return to Previous meetings page : Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs
Return to September Meetings
[15:02] <PhilippL> meeting ?
[15:02] <jsi_sun> ericb2: issue 77592 ?
[15:02] <IZBot> porting FEATURE STARTED P3 Use of the Mac OS X spell checker Issue 77592
[15:02] <ericb2> jsi_sun: once mikesic confirmed, I'll set te issue as fixed
[15:03] <ericb2> PhilippL: yes ( /me completely forgot :/ )
[15:03] * shaunmcdonald has totally forgot too
[15:03] <ericb2> Agenda for 6th September 2007 meeting
[15:03] <ericb2> 1. Welcome new devs joining Mac OS X port
[15:03] <jsi_sun> shaunmcdonald: thursday @Barcelona you have enough beer ordered ;-) ?
[15:04] <shaunmcdonald> jsi_sun: I can't afford to buy any beer just now :-(
[15:04] * fipa (n=fipa@88.103.199.209) has joined #ooo_macport
[15:04] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to fipa
[15:07] * ericb2 added a point in the agenda "Adopting Crypto API to OOo Aqua"
[15:07] * ismael_ (n=ismael@247.75.102-84.rev.gaoland.net) has joined #ooo_macport
[15:07] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to ismael_
[15:08] <ericb2> new devs around ?
[15:10] <PhilippL> that's a no i guess
[15:10] <shaunmcdonald> PhilippL: _1
[15:10] <shaunmcdonald> +1
[15:10] <ericb2> For the record, the first part of our IRC meetings is always dedicated for new comers. Be welcome if you want to join us !
[15:10] <ericb2> Ok, next point
[15:10] <ericb2> 2. Latest Cocoa news ( aquavcl03 news )
[15:12] <PhilippL> no big news from me
[15:12] <PhilippL> or hdu
[15:12] <PhilippL> svdem works again.
[15:13] <ericb2> no news from me
[15:13] <PhilippL> next point ?
[15:13] <ericb2> CWS SRC680 aquavclcarbonfixes and other things have eaten a lot of time for me
[15:13] <ericb2> 3. aquavclcarbonfixes integration
[15:14] <ericb2> the cws is now ready for QA
[15:14] <PhilippL> hear hear !
[15:15] <jsi_sun> I will start testing on Thu with CWS SRC680 macosxspellchecker first and then aquavclcarbonfixes
[15:15] <ericb2> jsi_sun: thank you
[15:15] <mav_eric_away> not direct Cocoa related but a native testtool is due to test.
[15:15] * mav_eric_away is now known as mav_eric
[15:15] <mav_eric> when I'm back and german QA for 2.3.0 is done I will focus on this
[15:16] <jsi_sun> mav_eric: You are welcome; we should share experiences in the QA meeting bi-weekly on Monday 11h MESZ
[15:16] <ericb2> mav_eric: issue 81199 should have fixed the Testtool issue with libdtrans
[15:16] <IZBot> utilities DEFECT RESOLVED FIXED P3 testtool: stand alone version AQUA complains about missing libdtransX11680mxp.dylib Issue 81199
[15:16] <ericb2> mav_eric: and imho, more, because of side effects
[15:16] <ericb2> mav_eric: probably undetected bugs when using basic stuff
[15:16] <mav_eric> jsi_sun: yes. But unfortunately most of the time i forget about qa meeting :-)
[15:17] <jsi_sun> mav_eric: see title of #qa.openoffice.org channel
[15:17] <jsi_sun> mav_eric: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/QAAutomationIRCMeetings
[15:17] <jsi_sun> mav_eric: and put it on the agenda
[15:17] <jsi_sun> mav_eric: would be great
[15:18] * ericb2 does not use Google Calendar .. too much Google in my life
[15:18] <mav_eric> jsi_sun: yes. If I come to a first result before 17th of september
[15:18] <ericb2> back to aquavclcarbonfixes cws : the issue about black frame has been removed: the backport does not work as expected, and is already fixed in aquavcl03
[15:19] <ericb2> another issue about native FilePicker has been added. Thanks to as for the fix and the explanation. Was issue 81231
[15:19] <IZBot> framework DEFECT VERIFIED FIXED P3 System file-picker can't be used Issue 81231
[15:19] <ericb2> comboboxes, listboxes and some other little but boring things have been fixed too
[15:20] <jsi_sun> ericb2: Has somebody tested loading documents via iDisk?
[15:20] <ericb2> jsi_sun: afaik, no
[15:20] <ericb2> the last remaining issue is about DRag and drop
[15:21] <ericb2> hdu_hh: some infos from Tino ?
[15:21] <mav_eric> jsi_sun: nope
[15:21] <jsi_sun> ericb2: We should try all links (nfs, afp, WebDAV, ...) in the native filepicker... FAIR there was a problem with WebDAV (aka iDisk)
[15:21] <hdu_hh> ericb2: tino wanted to join the chat when I talked to him this morning
[15:21] <ericb2> hdu_hh: ok
[15:22] <ericb2> jsi_sun: is there an existing issue about that ?
[15:22] <jsi_sun> ericb2: No, as I saw it the filepicker was in a CWS which was not ready.... since that time I haven't used it - I use the internal one for automation
[15:22] <jsi_sun> ericb2: I will test it in the CWS and if it fails I will write an issue
[15:23] * jsi_sun has a Sun in the network to test nfs :-)
[15:23] <ericb2> jsi_sun: ok, thanks. and if everything goes correctly, we can expect to make it work for the beta
[15:23] <jsi_sun> ericb2: yes, I have the "dead line" Barcelona week... so ready for next week of both CWSes
[15:24] <ericb2> once Drag and drop will work, native printing is the last missing feature
[15:24] <ericb2> jsi_sun: beta is after Barcelona
[15:24] <jsi_sun> ericb2: ...and another...
[15:24] <mav_eric> ericb2: and that's not unimportant at all
[15:25] <PhilippL> "native printing" meaning the native print dialog is not the last missing feature by far ;-)
[15:25] <ericb2> PhilippL: the last for beta
[15:25] <ericb2> PhilippL: end user meaning ;-)
[15:25] <mav_eric> PhilippL: native print dialog would be a good beginning
[15:26] <PhilippL> no, a beta should be feature complete.
[15:26] <PhilippL> and without e.g. multiscreen support we are not there yet.
[15:26] <ericb2> PhilippL: I'm not sure it was scheduled for beta
[15:26] <PhilippL> the native print dialog OTOH is an extra feature, that is not part of OOo's feature set yet.
[15:26] <ericb2> PhilippL: yo can believe me this is a brake for adoption / migration
[15:27] <mav_eric> PhilippL: so you mean beta after multiscreen and native print dialogues?
[15:27] <jsi_sun> I want to suggest another issue to get avoid [xml] security from Mozilla. Mac OS X has AFAIK it's own crypto API like Win32 has. Most of you using it (maybe) in Mail.app. It would be great after having the native spellchecker, native address book also the native crypto API from Mac OS X like only the Win32 version of OOo is using it in that system.
[15:27] <ericb2> jsi_sun: next point ?
[15:27] <hdu_hh> tino is busy with other stuff and can't join the chat. It looks like the chances for D&D for OOocon are 30..40%
[15:27] <PhilippL> A beta I would call the version we plan to release with 3.0 beta.
[15:27] <jsi_sun> PhilippL: +1
[15:27] <ericb2> PhilippL: I'd suggest the following plan :
[15:27] <PhilippL> There is nothing wrong with providing build that document our progress, but they are not "beta"
[15:28] <ericb2> alpha -> current version + drag and drop
[15:28] <mav_eric> PhilippL is right. A beta normally is feature complete
[15:28] <jsi_sun> ericb2: Ehhhh.... 'development snapshot'
[15:28] * jsi_sun hates "Alpha"
[15:28] <ericb2> jsi_sun: ok, not a problem
[15:29] <PhilippL> at least an alpha has the notion of being incomplete.
[15:29] <jsi_sun> ericb2: 'Barcelona 2007 - development snapshot' :-)
[15:29] <PhilippL> but let's not open that can of worms again :-)
[15:29] <mav_eric> jsi_sun: first talk to AMD if we're allowed to use Barcelona
[15:29] <ericb2> beta -> alpha+ native printing dialog + spell checker + address book + multi screen + (spotlight ) ?
[15:30] <jsi_sun> PhilippL: Yes, what about my suggestion to write an issue for 2.4 about Crypto API?
[15:30] <ericb2> mav_eric: put quotes in the announce "Barcelona"
[15:30] <jsi_sun> mav_eric: we use "Barcelona '07" :-)
[15:30] <PhilippL> jsi_sun: please do. If someone implements it, the more ower to him.
[15:30] <PhilippL> ower = power
[15:30] <jsi_sun> PhilippL: ok
[15:30] <ericb2> jsi_sun: I'd like to finish with point 3 and then, I promise we will talk about crypto API
[15:31] <PhilippL> +1
[15:31] <ericb2> PhilippL: are you ok with alpha, beta proposal ?
[15:32] <PhilippL> I propose to not call anything beta. Let's state that we want to be in sync with the other platforms as of 3.0 beta.
[15:32] <PhilippL> in sync with respect to releases I mean.
[15:33] <shaunmcdonald> jsi_sun: I have seen a problem with webdav when I last checked with the ooo aqua
[15:33] <ericb2> PhilippL: we used alpha and beta because of missing features. Sure we will stop once a more complete QA sill start with milestones
[15:33] <jsi_sun> shaunmcdonald: Ok. I'll check it in CWS.
[15:33] <ericb2> PhilippL: use such names helps for visibility of our work
[15:33] <PhilippL> We didn't use beta yet and I would advise not to for a while.
[15:34] <PhilippL> such names give the user expectations we cannot fulfill. Like e.g. feature completeness.
[15:34] <ericb2> PhilippL: it's not question of time when we use the names
[15:34] <ericb2> PhilippL: it's really question of (missing) features
[15:35] <PhilippL> no, that's right. And I still propose not to call anything a beta that is not feature complete.
[15:35] <jsi_sun> ericb2: I agree on PhilippL ; no wording with beta; I wouldn't use "Alpha"; It is a snapshot of our work. Nothing more.
[15:35] <shaunmcdonald> jsi_sun: thanks (sorry if I'm late with the discussion, I had phone call)
[15:35] <PhilippL> And nothing less. It's not that bad as it is.
[15:35] <ericb2> @all : ok: no more alpha, beta ?
[15:35] <jsi_sun> PhilippL: +1
[15:36] <mav_eric> ericb2: +1
[15:36] <PhilippL> ericb2: +1
[15:36] <jsi_sun> jsi_sun: 'Developer Snapshot for OOoCon '07'
[15:36] <jsi_sun> ericb2: 'Developer Snapshot for OOoCon '07'
[15:36] <ericb2> PhilippL: what can we answer, then: we expect to provide a version by the 3.0 output ?
[15:36] <PhilippL> also we can say I think that we plan to have beta when the other platforms reach 3.0 beta.
[15:36] <ismael_> PhilippL: when is 3.0 planned?
[15:37] <mav_eric> PhilippL: sounds good
[15:37] <ericb2> PhilippL: the importan point is to all have the same language
[15:37] <jsi_sun> ismael_: AFAIR 03/08
[15:37] <ericb2> PhilippL: then, no more problems I think
[15:37] <shaunmcdonald> Bacelona is the current codename for the build due in the next 2 weeks ;-)
[15:37] <ismael_> jsi_sun: thanks
[15:37] <jsi_sun> ismael_: AFAIR 01/2008 - in that region
[15:37] <jsi_sun> ismael_: see roadmap ;-)
[15:37] <shaunmcdonald> http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/news/2007/20070818top5beforealpha.html
[15:38] <PhilippL> ismael_: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Product_Release#Ongoing_OpenOffice.org_3.0 , that is around march next year
[15:39] <ismael_> PhilippL: thanks
[15:39] <jsi_sun> ismael_: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoRelease30 6th march 2008 FEATURE FREEZE (=Beta)
[15:40] <jsi_sun> Last cws integration for fixes: July 18th, 2008
[15:40] <jsi_sun> Product release: September 2nd, 2008 or OOoCon 2008 mid September ?
[15:40] <jsi_sun> 1 year
[15:41] <jsi_sun> ericb2: anything else?
[15:41] <PhilippL> 6th march, 15:32 :-)
[15:41] <PhilippL> Though I wouldn't treat that as chiseled in stone :-)
[15:41] <ericb2> Next point ?
[15:42] <jsi_sun> PhilippL: ROTFL
[15:42] <ericb2> 4. Adopting Crypto API to OOo Aqua
[15:43] <jsi_sun> copy from above ;-)
[15:43] <PhilippL> Whoever wants to do that should coordinate with MT I think.
[15:44] <jsi_sun> PhilippL: I will ad MT to cc:
[15:44] <PhilippL> BTW: do we have a volunteer for that task ?
[15:49] <ericb2> PhilippL: we can ask on mac@porting for volunteers ?
[15:49] <PhilippL> yes, we should.
[15:50] <PhilippL> next poin t ?
[15:50] <ericb2> jsi_sun: what would be great, is find people describing us *where* and *what* in the code has to be modified, with suggestions about the design
[15:50] <ericb2> jsi_sun: would save a lot of time
[15:51] <ericb2> jsi_sun: most of the time, people don't help because nobody knows where is the relevant code
[15:51] <PhilippL> ericb2: I'd guess the relevant code would be in xmlsecurity module, but I don't know. MT would.
[15:51] <ericb2> For the record, I know Kevin Hendricks jhelped for the Mac OS X spellchecker integration
[15:52] <PhilippL> cool, I didn't hear from him in a while.
[15:52] <ericb2> he helped even a lot: some advices are gold advices
[15:53] * ericb2 dancing steve balmmer dance : document... document .. document :)
[15:53] <mav_eric> cool. would be great if he could join us again. His work back was amazing
[15:53] <ericb2> mav_eric: I wrote Kevin helped, and I wanted to thank him officially
[15:54] <ericb2> mav_eric: yes, his work was amazing, of course
[15:54] <mav_eric> ericb2: nice
[15:54] <jsi_sun> ericb2: I have written that FEATURE issue 81295 to Malte that he can add the steps to be done
[15:54] <IZBot> framework FEATURE NEW P3 Adopt Mac OS X crypto API instead of using Mozilla's Issue 81295
[15:54] <ericb2> jsi_sun: thank you very much
[15:56] <ericb2> one more time, I'd like to say if several people are aware, the work complexity is divided, and more. Document as much as possible is essential, more than the code imho
[15:56] <jsi_sun> ericb2: aquaport is the user we collect such issues?
[15:56] <ericb2> jsi_sun: macport
[15:56] <ericb2> jsi_sun: + aqua keyword
[15:56] <ericb2> once the issue is created
[15:57] <jsi_sun> ericb2: done
[15:57] <jsi_sun> ericb2: I call such documents "project plan" :-)
[15:57] <ericb2> jsi_sun: great
[15:58] <ericb2> Other topics ? ( Misc now )
[15:58] * jsi_sun has to leave now, cul8er
[15:58] * jsi_sun is away: chrrr.......
[15:58] <ericb2> Back to OOoCon2007
[15:59] <ericb2> I have added infos about the "unofficial" Mac porters meeting
[15:59] <ericb2> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoCon2007_Specials#Mac_porters
[15:59] <ericb2> *please* complete / help if you attend
[16:00] <ericb2> thanks
[16:00] <ericb2> Apple Expo Paris now : I think everything is ready, PR, logos, etc .. volunteers, seems ok
[16:01] <ericb2> was not easy, though
[16:01] <ericb2> jsi_sun: one last thing
[16:02] <ericb2> jsi_sun: if ever soemthing goes wrong with cws, I'd like to know asap
[16:02] <ericb2> jsi_sun: every day counts
[16:03] <ericb2> Less important, I have to answer an interview for some german press, and I'll probably ask mav_eric / shaunmcdonald to help me
[16:03] <mav_eric> ericb2: feel free to do so.
[16:03] <PhilippL> ericb2: what press ?
[16:04] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: I'll try, though louis is a lot faster at doing good translations than me
[16:04] <ericb2> PhilippL: some questions about Mac port, who we are, how we work ..etc. Now you understand better why I asked you what answer ;-)
[16:04] <PhilippL> ericb2: no, I meant whichmagazine ?
[16:04] <ericb2> PhilippL: sorry, I forgot the link
[16:05] <ericb2> other questions, topics in Misc ?
[16:06] <shaunmcdonald> is everyone remembering that the presentation deadline for ooocon2007 is due a week on Friday?
[16:06] <ericb2> Last for me, I'm still working on my presentations for OOocon. (I know I'm late )
[16:07] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: the deadline was extended
[16:07] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: indeed : 14th of September
[16:07] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: uff
[16:07] <ericb2> mav_eric: no problem, I'll do. Thanks for the proposal
[16:07] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: I'm one of the folk who helped to extend the deadline ;-)
[16:07] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: I'm one of the folk who helped to extend the deadline ;-)
[16:08] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: good idea
[16:08] <hdu_hh> shaunmcdonald: thank you very much!
[16:08] <shaunmcdonald> remember the early presentation is aimed at users, and the later presentation is aimed at developers
[16:09] <shaunmcdonald> hdu_hh: ericb2: I might as well do something useful in my time
[16:09] <ericb2> last point for me: I'm invited ( means expenses funded ) to present the MAc O SX port in a french Mac Association ( Grenoble )
[16:09] <ericb2> no date yet, I have to chosse
[16:09] <ericb2> choose
[16:10] <ericb2> Other questions ?
[16:10] <ericb2> I propose next meeting:12th September, same hour, ok ?
[16:10] <PhilippL> +1
[16:11] * jamesmckenzie (n=jamesmck@ip72-211-130-42.tc.ph.cox.net) has left #ooo_macport
[16:11] * jamesmckenzie (n=jamesmck@ip72-211-130-42.tc.ph.cox.net) has joined #ooo_macport
[16:11] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to jamesmckenzie
[16:11] <ericb2> Ok, End of Meeting
[16:11] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: fine for me
[16:11] <ericb2> the log is available here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Log_Mac_Meeting_5_September_2007
