Log Mac Meeting 5 Jan 2007

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[21:01] paveljanik: meeting starts?

[21:01] shaunmcdonald: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings

[21:01] ericb2: paveljanik: this is not normal. we don't have to change wnt things

[21:01] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: our secretary :-)

[21:02] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: we're a minute late ;-)

[21:02] paveljanik: ericb2: yes, this is not normal ;-)

[21:02] shaunmcdonald: 1. Welcome new devs (if any)

[21:03] shaunmcdonald: do we have any new devs available?

[21:03] paveljanik: ericb2: please also verify the change in desktop/source/pkgchk/makefile.mk

[21:03] paveljanik: or maybe this is a problem with my EIS access now...

[21:03] paveljanik: I'll verify the diff

[21:04] paveljanik: ericb2: forget it, EIS was down and my script could not update the m199 source to the base milestone...

[21:04] paveljanik: oh God...

[21:04] ericb2: paveljanik: I don't remember have modified something here

[21:04] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: looks like we don't

[21:05] ericb2: paveljanik: only desktop/macosx is concerned

[21:05] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: I have been speaking to at least 2 people who are wanting to setup buildbots for the Mac platform

[21:05] mav_eric joined the chat room.

[21:06] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: one of them has got ooo to compile, which is the first step, but ooo that he compiles is very slow

[21:06] mav_eric: hi

[21:06] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: the meeting has just started

[21:06] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: O.K.

[21:07] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: you haven't missed anything, apart from the fact that I have spoke to 2 people about setting up new buildbots

[21:07] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: cool.

[21:07] mav_eric: Once I have caught mikeleib mine will go back to work

[21:08] shaunmcdonald: this will be very good for us, so we just need a road map for the buildbots and what we are going to want to do with them

[21:08] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: yes, this is important...

[21:08] shaunmcdonald: that way when new people come to donate processor time, we can say what we are going to use the processor time for and why

[21:09] sparcmoz joined the chat room.

[21:09] paveljanik: I suggest at least this regular task: build all cwses marked as ready for QA/approved at least once before their integration.

[21:09] sparcmoz was promoted to operator by ChanServ.

[21:09] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: mike is around

[21:09] cloph: That is more a task for a tinderbox setup...

[21:09] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: I know but first this meeting here

[21:09] paveljanik: another one: build plain just released milestone and save it for reference.

[21:09] paveljanik: cloph: as always: I do not distinguish buildbot, termite, tinderbox, ...

[21:10] paveljanik: auto-builders...

[21:10] paveljanik: I only care about the results they bring to us

[21:10] cloph: Other people do... And all are on the buildbot-hype...

[21:10] shaunmcdonald: cloph: it is, but we need some way of deciding what is going to be built

[21:11] shaunmcdonald: most important is upcoming CWS

[21:12] shaunmcdonald: I have to make some decision on what I am going to build on this machine from time to time, it can be a hard descion as it may be a CWS that is based on a MWS that is very old and won't compile

[21:13] paveljanik: ericb2: when you created macosx22fixes? Was it before the milestone were ready and the base milestone tag moved in the meantime?

[21:13] paveljanik: ericb2: at least it looks so...

[21:14] ericb2: paveljanik: yes. Is there a problem ?

[21:14] paveljanik: ericb2: no and yes

[21:14] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: I think that is what might have happened with my CWS macosxdmgapplik

[21:14] ericb2: paveljanik: I created macosx22fixes just before 98 was tagged

[21:14] paveljanik: ericb2: you discovered bug in my scripts

[21:14] shaunmcdonald: macosxdmgapplink

[21:15] paveljanik: because I do diffs between base milestone tag and the tag, I have to do diffs between anchor and tag instead

[21:15] ericb2: • ericb2 away 15 min, sorry

[21:15] paveljanik: ok, so no new devs now here.

[21:16] cloph: shaunmcdonald: My tinderbox script has a "minmilestone" configuration parameter.. Everything older than that is ignored and not built...

[21:16] shaunmcdonald: cloph: that is a good idea

[21:17] shaunmcdonald: cloph: I'm thinking of looking into the changing http://termite.go-oo.org/cws_view_ready and http://termite.go-oo.org/cws_view_new so that they display the milestone that they are based on too

[21:17] cloph: shaunmcdonald: Really, I'd just dropt he buildbot's webinterface and use tinderbox to present the logs instead.

[21:18] cloph: When you upload the installation set, add the URL as a "Tinderprint: <whatever>" to your mail and it will appear along the "show brief/full log" links...

[21:19] paveljanik: ok, next point?

[21:19] shaunmcdonald: 2. Aqua News

[21:20] paveljanik: nothing here.

[21:20] paveljanik: (from me)

[21:21] sparcmoz left the chat room. ("This computer has gone to sleep")

[21:22] shaunmcdonald: I don't have any either

[21:22] mav_eric: let's see what ericb has once he's back

[21:22] paveljanik: Mox's sysdata patch is now integrated in aquavcl01

[21:22] paveljanik: mav_eric: yes.

[21:22] sparcmoz joined the chat room.

[21:23] ismael_: AquaSalBitmap::createImageWithMask now works correctly

[21:23] paveljanik: ismael_: Yay. Patch for review/integration is where

[21:23] ismael_: image menus look fine, and images who use mask are now shown correctly (as in Draw, for 3D images for example)

[21:24] paveljanik: ismael_: and rolling About bitmap as well?

[21:24] ismael_: the patch is at http://lebasket.free.fr/OOo/05_01_07/patchSalbmpCreateWithMask.diff

[21:24] ismael_: paveljanik: what is rolling?

[21:24] paveljanik: ismael_: Ctrl+ S D T in About - scrolling bitmap?

[21:25] ismael_: i didn't try yet, but i think it doesn't work

[21:25] paveljanik: ismael_: can you try it now?

[21:26] ismael_: ericb2 told me about the bitsplit() function, and if i remember correctly, he told me that the problem comes from this function

[21:26] • ismael_ trying ctrl+SDT

[21:27] ericb2: • ericb2 back

[21:27] ismael_: i also wrote doc to explain this function on my wiki page http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ismael

[21:28] paveljanik: ismael_: great. Thanks

[21:28] ericb2: paveljanik: yes, rolling is due to bitsplit() or something like that

[21:28] paveljanik: I'll try the patch tomorrow.

[21:28] ismael_: paveljanik: i tried, and it still bugs

[21:28] paveljanik: ismael_: OK.

[21:28] paveljanik: but menu images are good to work. I'll review it.

[21:28] ericb2: from my side, I wrote a list of changes, starting from last Mac porters meeting

[21:28] paveljanik: ismael_: do you already have CVS access?

[21:29] ismael_: paveljanik: no

[21:29] paveljanik: ismael_: time to ask for it

[21:29] ericb2: paveljanik: +1 for me

[21:29] ericb2: ismael_: yes, we could help you

[21:29] paveljanik: ericb2: can you please guide ismael_?

[21:29] ismael_: ok, thanks

[21:29] ericb2: paveljanik: sure

[21:29] paveljanik: ismael_: good work!

[21:30] ericb2: ismael_: don't hesitate to ask me

[21:30] ismael_: paveljanik: in the file salbmp.cxx, indentation is with spaces or with tab?

[21:30] ericb2: ismael_: spaces

[21:30] paveljanik: ismael_: 4 spaces.

[21:30] paveljanik: ismael_: what editor do you use?

[21:31] • paveljanik hopes it is Emacs

[21:31] ismael_: paveljanik: it's XCode

[21:31] paveljanik: ah Good

[21:31] paveljanik: we should create a page on how to setup Xcode to follow OOo indentation style then.

[21:32] cloph: There are tips and tricks for both emacs and vim in the wiki...

[21:32] cloph: A Xcode one would fit as well.

[21:32] paveljanik: yes

[21:32] ismael_: paveljanik: i ask this question because you told me 4 spaces, but in the file, my indentation didn't correspond with the one of the file

[21:33] paveljanik: ismael_: yes, some people tend to use something different, but 4 spaces are OOo style and we should follow it in new code.

[21:33] paveljanik: I occasionally even change old code, extra spaces/tabs etc.

[21:33] ismael_: paveljanik: ok, i will update the patch tomorrow

[21:33] cloph: • cloph sees there is one for SlickEdit and MSDev already as well http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:Developer_Tools

[21:34] paveljanik: ismael_: if you do not have CVS access yet, I can adapt it and commit.

[21:34] ericb2: If none disagree, i propose to put a list of recent issues/changes for aquavcl01. Please correct what is wrong for you : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb#recent_changes

[21:34] • ericb2 wrote that from memory

[21:34] ismael_: paveljanik: ok, if you want

[21:35] ericb2: ismael_: what is you oo.o login ? ismael ?

[21:35] ericb2: s/you/your/

[21:35] paveljanik: ericb2: good. I propose to start filling issues for tasks that are already identified - like "modify the tree to start without hack" etc.

[21:36] ericb2: paveljanik: +1

[21:36] paveljanik: the same applies to top-ten crashes.

[21:36] ericb2: paveljanik: ok

[21:36] ismael_: • ismael_ don't remember my ooo login, will look for

[21:36] cloph: There is already http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AquaToDo and http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Aquavcl01_tasks ...

[21:36] ericb2: ismael_: let me one minute ..

[21:38] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald thinks there has been a lack of communication on the placing of the aqua tasks onto the wiki

[21:38] cloph: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Porting_-_Work_Areas/Todo%27s exists as well...

[21:39] paveljanik: OK, so AI for ericb2: create one stop place for AQUA TODOs?

[21:40] ericb2: paveljanik: there is an Aqua todo on the wiki

[21:40] paveljanik: ericb2: yes, there are three of them...

[21:40] ericb2: paveljanik: ah, not well organized .. please help

[21:41] mav_eric: ericb2: if it's ok I can also take a look at those four pages and merge them

[21:41] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: +1

[21:41] ericb2: mav_eric: thank you

[21:41] mav_eric: once merged we can correct and remove what's already done

[21:42] paveljanik: mav_eric: thanks.

[21:42] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: once all the content is moved, put a redirect in to the real todo

[21:42] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald:

[21:43] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: yes we need a todo for the todo

[21:43] paveljanik: what next?

[21:43] shaunmcdonald: 3. X11 news, TODO for 2.2

[21:43] paveljanik: I have few of them

[21:43] paveljanik: X11/AQUA build related:

[21:43] shaunmcdonald: we have about 3 or 4 CWS that paveljanik is doing

[21:44] shaunmcdonald: QAing

[21:44] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: yes QA is important

[21:44] paveljanik: pj69 makes it possible to build another module - sd - without warnings on Mac OS X.

[21:44] paveljanik: pj69 contains P1 fix for missing icu lib at m198 runtime.

[21:45] paveljanik: it also contains few more fixes that are important for this or that platform.

[21:45] paveljanik: for 2.2, we have now three other macosx% cwses open and ready for QA.

[21:45] paveljanik: I want to do all of them because I fell there will be a big mess around them.

[21:46] paveljanik: e.g. Eric is changing the file desktop/macosx/source/InfoPlist.strings in one cws and Mox is moving the same file to instsetoo_native.

[21:46] paveljanik: This can only result in problems when RE integrates them both together.

[21:46] paveljanik: I will take care about it so all fixes get integrated intime.

[21:47] paveljanik: this will mean moving issues between them etc.

[21:47] paveljanik: I'll send a summary mail to the list when the work is finished.

[21:47] paveljanik: all from me.

[21:47] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: this is great work, thanks for doing the tidying up

[21:48] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: your cws is clean work already

[21:48] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: except the buildbot build it with the wrong .app name

[21:49] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: and have you identified why?

[21:49] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: no

[21:49] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: it has something to do with the version number not having been updated

[21:49] paveljanik: any other X11/2.2 related issues?

[21:50] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: one of the CWS that you are going to review should fix that problem

[21:50] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: yes

[21:50] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: you will remember back in Hamburg we discovered a refresh issue

[21:51] shaunmcdonald: was there ever an issue submitted about it?

[21:51] sparcmoz left the chat room. ("This computer has gone to sleep")

[21:52] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: don't remember, sorry.

[21:52] paveljanik: in X11?

[21:52] paveljanik: ah do you mean the projector issue?

[21:52] paveljanik: beamer?

[21:52] paveljanik: or?

[21:52] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: yes

[21:52] paveljanik: I think there is no issue for it.

[21:52] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: I managed to reproduce it on a single screen

[21:52] paveljanik: file one for martink - he has the environment to check it

[21:52] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: and others like cloph confirmed

[21:53] paveljanik: ah, interesting - please file it so we can check it as well.

[21:53] cloph: paveljanik: This is very much like the issue with the find-and-replace dialog

[21:53] cloph: It part of the window is off-screen, you get redraw errors

[21:53] paveljanik: cloph: you mean missing strings?

[21:53] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: all you need is for the ooo windoe to be below the bottom of the screen

[21:53] cloph: Kind of. "white on white"

[21:53] paveljanik: yes.

[21:54] cloph: Forcing a refresh corrects the display

[21:54] paveljanik: BTW - anyone investigated the strange DicOOo window issue?

[21:54] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: and it doesn't redraw when you scroll

[21:54] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: reproducible with other X11 applications?

[21:54] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: that is a multi platform issue

[21:54] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: not checked

[21:54] • shaunmcdonald starts gimp

[21:55] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: can you find Clytie's issue about missing strings in some dialog and add even more info about your investigations?

[21:56] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: ok

[21:56] • shaunmcdonald cannot reproduce with the GIMP

[21:56] paveljanik: thank you

[21:56] paveljanik: maybe we should call "refresh" on every window?

[21:57] paveljanik: OK, interesting stuff here.

[21:57] paveljanik: Next point?

[21:57] • paveljanik has lot of work tonight ;-0

[21:57] shaunmcdonald: 4. Urgent tasks in native port

[21:57] cloph: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=72479

[21:57] IZBot: issue 72479: porting DEFECT NEW Missing strings in Find and Replace dialogue in Cacl

[21:58] paveljanik: ericb2: ?

[21:59] ericb2: paveljanik: sorry

[21:59] ericb2: this point is in the list

[21:59] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald is worried, he just got a input/output error saving a local ooo file

[21:59] ericb2: from memory :

[21:59] ericb2: fix libsalsystool.dylib

[21:59] ericb2: modify the tree

[22:00] paveljanik: this is TODO again, right?

[22:00] ericb2: paveljanik: yes

[22:00] sparcmoz joined the chat room.

[22:00] ericb2: paveljanik: in fact, I believed more people working on native would be present today

[22:02] paveljanik: we have to create one single list of TODO items for them - mav_eric's task. We can then discuss the list in the list again.

[22:02] mav_eric: paveljanik: give me at least the weekend

[22:03] paveljanik: mav_eric: sure

[22:03] ericb2: • ericb2 will ask Florian about the FilePicker

[22:03] ericb2: and fonts

[22:03] ericb2: tinor_: no news from ssa ?

[22:04] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: why do we have gulls at the background image of the installer at all? Both old gulls and wired gulls are there...

[22:04] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: I think wired gulls are enough.

[22:05] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: I just used the current image for the background of the disk image, with a slight modification to remove the applications icon

[22:06] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: OK. We should change it in the future (2.2+

[22:06] ericb2: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73190 has been created

[22:06] IZBot: issue 73190: timed out

[22:07] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: My m198 from last night has the updated .app name so there is something up with my CWS

[22:07] paveljanik: ismael_: you should create ssh key and attach its public part to the issue IIRC.

[22:07] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: do you still have the link where ismael_ can find the most important infos ?

[22:08] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: I think that I done a cwsresync too early

[22:08] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: I'll take a look

[22:08] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: thank you

[22:08] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: yes

[22:09] shaunmcdonald: ismael_: http://www.openoffice.org/scdocs/ddSSHGuide

[22:09] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: I think the easiest way to solve is to run resync again.

[22:09] paveljanik: it should be possible to resync it to m198 again.

[22:09] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: ah great

[22:09] paveljanik: and if it doesn't help, just create it again - on module, three files changed - should be fast.

[22:10] cloph: ismael_: don'T forget to reassign the issue to "ssh2key" user.

[22:10] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: to verify, just diff instsetoo_native with -r SRC680_m198 and anchor of your cws - it will show you the differences.

[22:11] ismael_: cloph: ok

[22:11] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: another great idea

[22:11] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: the diff shows *many* differences

[22:12] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: and one of them is YOUR difference

[22:12] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: you owe me a coke ;-0

[22:13] paveljanik: maybe this is also the answer to ericb2's question - ho changed the version numbers?

[22:13] paveljanik: - PRODUCTVERSION 2.1

[22:13] paveljanik: + PRODUCTVERSION 2.2

[22:13] paveljanik:

[22:13] ericb2: paveljanik: where ?

[22:13] paveljanik: ericb2: run this in instsetoo_native:

[22:13] paveljanik: cvs diff -r CWS_SRC680_MACOSXDMGAPPLINK_ANCHOR -r SRC680_m198

[22:14] ericb2: paveljanik: yes, but this cws is not integrated

[22:14] ericb2: paveljanik: ah, I understand: is probably did the change

[22:15] paveljanik: ericb2: can you please resync your cws to m198 as well? Looks like you did it early as well...

[22:15] paveljanik: ericb2: compare cvs diff -r CWS_SRC680_MACOSX22FIXES_ANCHOR -r SRC680_m198 in module desktop...

[22:15] paveljanik: these are the changes I was talking about earlier today...

[22:16] ericb2: paveljanik: I got all changes <2.1.0 >2.2.0

[22:17] sparcmoz left the chat room. ("This computer has gone to sleep")

[22:17] ericb2: paveljanik: i don't see my changes

[22:18] paveljanik: ericb2: which is OK. your changes are on tag not ANCHOR.

[22:18] paveljanik: But your ANCHOR tag is different from your base milestone tag -> resync to make it OK.

[22:18] ericb2: paveljanik: I"ll do tomorrow

[22:18] ericb2: paveljanik: m199 ?

[22:18] paveljanik: or I can do it myself if you want to (applies to Shaun as well).

[22:19] paveljanik: ericb2: no.

[22:19] ericb2: paveljanik: m198

[22:19] paveljanik: ericb2: m198... You resynced or created it when m198 was not ready.

[22:19] paveljanik: and unfortunately it touched desktop module as well.

[22:19] ericb2: paveljanik: ok, it is up to you if you want to resync

[22:19] paveljanik: ok.

[22:19] ericb2: paveljanik: just let me know

[22:20] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald will need to checkout the m198 source again

[22:20] paveljanik: ericb2: I'll resync it. It will be only about moving ANCHOR tag, so no problmes.

[22:21] ericb2: paveljanik: thank you

[22:22] paveljanik: ericb2: resync finished

[22:22] ericb2: paveljanik: already ?

[22:22] paveljanik: ericb2: yes

[22:22] paveljanik: fast network

[22:22] ericb2: paveljanik: I see

[22:23] paveljanik: and only two tags to be moved.

[22:23] sparcmoz joined the chat room.

[22:24] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: should I do it with your cws as well?

[22:24] ericb2: paveljanik: now, what should return the command : cvs diff -r CWS_SRC680_MACOSX22FIXES_ANCHOR -r SRC680_m198

[22:24] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: if you have the time yes please

[22:24] ericb2: paveljanik: currently, nothing, is it correct ?

[22:24] paveljanik: ericb2: nothing.

[22:24] ericb2: paveljanik: great

[22:24] paveljanik: ericb2: nothing because your base milestone should/must be equal to your ANCHOR tag.

[22:25] ericb2: paveljanik: I understand

[22:26] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: OK, done

[22:26] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: thank you

[22:26] paveljanik: np

[22:26] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: I'll do a rebuild with the bot to do a test

[22:26] tinor_ left the chat room.

[22:26] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: great

[22:27] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald is running disk inventory X to see what is taking up 66.8GB, leaving only 7.2GB

[22:27] paveljanik: .ccache?

[22:28] cloph: • cloph only uses 5GB ccache - should be enough for the cws of twenty masters...

[22:29] ericb2: can anyone confirm ismael ssh key is correct? I'm not sure

[22:29] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald only has 870.2 Mbytes of ccache, with mac at 976 Mbytes

[22:29] paveljanik: ericb2: looks it is OK

[22:29] ericb2: paveljanik: great. Thank you !

[22:30] paveljanik: ccache here: 4.2 GB

[22:31] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald sees that he has a second user that has a similar ccache size

[22:31] mav_eric: pimp my ccache

[22:32] ericb2: other point ?

[22:32] cloph: • cloph disabled the spotlight for the build-dirs and the checkouts in the hope that this will reduce disk-usage that slows down the build

[22:32] cloph: Is there an agreement on what are "good" --with-system flags on Mac?

[22:33] ericb2: cloph: good question

[22:33] shaunmcdonald: cloph: I now avoid using them

[22:34] ericb2: cloph: --with-system-curl --with-system-libxml --with-system-expat here

[22:34] paveljanik: what is the system-expat path?

[22:35] paveljanik: I use system-curl and system-libxml

[22:35] mav_eric: I have --with-system-freetype --with-system-curl --with-system-python --with-system-zlib

[22:36] ericb2: paveljanik: /usr/X11R6/lib

[22:36] mav_eric: and so far no known or reported issues that my builds won't run on other macs

[22:37] mav_eric: --with-system-libxml didn't work here

[22:37] • mav_eric doesn't know why

[22:37] paveljanik: mav_eric: what is the error message?

[22:38] mav_eric: paveljanik: later - I don't have it by hand now

[22:38] paveljanik: ok

[22:38] mav_eric: paveljanik: I'll make a note

[22:38] cloph: Add it to your Todo

[22:38] paveljanik: system python should be the default on mc OS X, no need to specify it on the command line.

[22:39] paveljanik: and there were some issues with system freetype - like inverted values or something like that.

[22:39] paveljanik: obr should now more about it...

[22:39] paveljanik: IIRC we force OOo to use internal freetype on mac OS X...

[22:39] paveljanik: (because of that)...

[22:39] mav_eric: paveljanik: O.K. I will leave it when doing the next build

[22:40] ericb2: other points ?

[22:40] ericb2: I have one

[22:40] cloph: freetype is not foced in configure at least...

[22:41] cloph: ericb2: shoot

[22:41] paveljanik: cloph: maybe I do not remember correctly.

[22:42] ericb2: FYI, I'll be present at Solution Linux Expo ( Paris 29january -1 february) , probably on OpenOffice.org stand, and I'll make a lightningtalk about Mac OS X port of OpenOffice.org (or something like that), at the FOSDEM 24/25 february

[22:43] ericb2: last rendez-vous for me is 24th january, Paris too , for Leopard presentation (under NDA)

[22:44] ericb2: other good news for next meeting

[22:46] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: that's good news as it means more exposure for us

[22:46] ismael_: ericb2: great

[22:48] mav_eric: looks as if - at least for germany - the mac was a frequently given present

[22:48] mav_eric: normally three questions a month about mac now four in just one wee

[22:48] mav_eric: week

[22:49] mav_eric: most questions were about X11

[22:49] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: the users@ooo list has been busy with mac questions too

[22:50] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: great

[22:50] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: it's one of the few lists I'm currently not subscribed

[22:51] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: I only recently subscribed

[22:52] ericb2: mav_eric: , shaunmcdonald : please continue to take care on all the websites, about wrong infos we often read

[22:52] shaunmcdonald: there is maybe 4-10 a week being mac specific (of course this includes christmas and new year, so isn't very accurate, and some question may be double counted)

[22:54] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: I do, seems that some people have picked up and mentioned in there blogs about the web sites that stated that ooo aqua was to be released for ooocon and apple expo paris, and commented on the fact that those news sites were wrong

[22:54] mav_eric: ericb2: sure. but shaun is right - there wasn't much stuff over the last weeks

[22:54] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald likes to do a goolge blog search sometimes

[22:54] mav_eric: ericb2: but german community plans to make some more marketing for the mac port - I'll see

[22:55] ericb2: mav_eric: good, thanks

[22:55] ericb2: mav_eric: we need coders

[22:55] mav_eric: ericb2: i know

[22:55] ericb2: mav_eric: and designers too IMHO

[22:55] mav_eric: ericb2: I wanted to start coding but so far I don't know how and where to start

[22:55] ericb2: FYI, I'll start a project about icons with some students. Another one, very good, will probably write some code

[22:56] cloph: mav_eric: Then you got free choice from the ToDo (SCNR - last one from me wrt. ToDo-List task, I swear)

[22:57] mav_eric: cloph: nope. I'm a complete newbee - so first I need to learn a language like C or Java or ...

[22:57] ismael_: or C++

[22:58] mav_eric: ismael_: yes something like that

[22:58] mav_eric: but when I go to the library there is about two meters of books but which one is good?

[22:58] ismael_: mav_eric: if you have questions, ask us.

[22:58] ericb2: vvijayk: ping ?

[22:59] mav_eric: ismael_: the first question is how to start or which book to read?

[23:00] mav_eric: I did some TurboPascal back at school and some Basic but that was about ten years ago

[23:00] ismael_: mav_eric: i can't help you to chose your book, because i'm french and in the library i go, most of the books are in french, and also because i learned with internet some years ago

[23:01] mav_eric: ismael_: agreed. English or german would be better for me to read

[23:02] ismael_: mav_eric: as it is in a library, why not seeing which book you prefer by seeing rapidly its content, and as you don't buy it, you can take 2 books for example if you hesitate between the both.

[23:03] mav_eric: ismael_: the thing is that most of the computer books aren't allowed to be rent. you can only do copies

[23:03] mav_eric: of the pages you need.

[23:03] mav_eric: and the once which you can take with you are ancient

[23:04] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: if you are looking for the basics of Mac OS X Programming you could try "Beginning Mac OS X Programming" published by wrox, ISBN: 0764573993

[23:04] ericb2: \O/ can we choose the next meting date ? >O_/

[23:04] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: that's strange

[23:04] ismael_: mav_eric: i think a bible which is 2000+ pages is not the best solutions for the beginning, try to find a boot not too long

[23:05] ismael_: s/boot/book

[23:05] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: I can borrow all the latest books that the local libraries have for free

[23:05] ismael_: mav_eric: in my library we can rent computer books

[23:05] shaunmcdonald: ismael_: how much does it cost?

[23:06] ismael_: recent and ancient

[23:06] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: It's not me making the rules

[23:06] ismael_: shaunmcdonald: what?

[23:06] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: where do you try to borrow the books from?

[23:06] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: they told me that computer books got stolen too often and since they are expensive too they had to make some restrictions

[23:06] ismael_: mav_eric: yes i know, unfortunalety

[23:06] ismael_: mav_eric: ok

[23:06] mav_eric: ericb2: next week?

[23:07] shaunmcdonald: ismael_: you say rent, which implies that it does cost you to take the books away from the library

[23:07] mav_eric: but it would be nice if we can switch to 19 UTC or 20UTC

[23:07] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: ahh ok, that hasn't happened here

[23:07] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: yes. New books cost you 2.- Euros

[23:07] ismael_: shaunmcdonald: no i would say "rent for free" (i made a mistake with the meaning of the word)

[23:08] ismael_: shaunmcdonald: and moreover i don't know the word

[23:08] ericb2: • ericb2 proposes next meeting : Friday 12th of January, 22:00 CET ( Paris/Hamburg hour ) == 21:00 UTC

[23:08] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: strange, you only get charged if you are late returning

[23:08] shaunmcdonald: ismael_: "rent for free" = borrow

[23:08] ismael_: ericb2: +1

[23:08] paveljanik: ericb2: +1

[23:08] mav_eric: ericb2: can we start 1 hour early

[23:08] ismael_: shaunmcdonald: thanks

[23:08] ericb2: mav_eric: not easy for me

[23:08] shaunmcdonald: ismael_: np

[23:09] mav_eric: ericb2: o.K. in this case 22h

[23:09] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: UTC?

[23:09] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: no Berlin

[23:09] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric:

[23:09] mav_eric: shaunmcdonald: Hamburg

[23:09] shaunmcdonald: mav_eric: they are the same

[23:10] shaunmcdonald: so there is no disagreement of the time of the next meeting?

[23:10] paveljanik: 21:00 UTC.

[23:10] You changed the topic to "OpenOffice.org Mac porting team channel. Next IRC Meeting is scheduled Friday 12th January 2007 (21:00 UTC / 22:00 CET). See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings#Next_Meeting for the agenda. All previous Mac port meetings logs are available at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs".

[23:11] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: may I ask you to put the log on the wiki ? mine is not complete

[23:11] ismael_: good night

[23:11] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: ok

[23:11] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: thank you very much !

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