Log Mac Meeting 2 Feb 2007

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[21:59] shaunmcdonald time for the meeting? http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings#Next_Meeting

[21:59] paveljanik yes

[21:59] shaunmcdonald 1. Welcome new devs (if any)

[21:59] shaunmcdonald Are there any new devs here tonight?

[22:01] paveljanik no

[22:02] shaunmcdonald lets move on to the next point then

[22:02] shaunmcdonald 2. 2.2 status (testtool, QA, storing results, fixing scripts for Mac OS X)

[22:02] paveljanik So, the current mileston on OOF680 is m5.

[22:02] paveljanik m6 is now tagged as well, but is not yet ready.

[22:03] paveljanik m6 integrates both localisation19 with all translations and also macosxmapfiles, so testtool will be running again directly from the build!

[22:03] mav_eric topten and release test scripts both run without problems when macsoxmapfiles was integrated

[22:03] mav_eric topten gives an error and a warning in Draw but a manual testing of the reported problems shows there is no error

[22:04] paveljanik I think we should all revisit our MacOS X issues in this milestone and test them again and update issues with the latest info.

[22:04] paveljanik mav_eric: great. It would be fine to find the errors in scripts and fix them for Mac OS X...

[22:04] mav_eric also the issue about crashing when exporting to ppt seems to be solved. I tested it with all my files that currently crashed

[22:04] paveljanik does anyone know something about screenshots?

[22:04] mav_eric paveljanik: I save all my results

[22:04] * shaunmcdonald is still running the testtool scripts (full suite) from the build he made of macosxmapfile about a week ago

[22:04] paveljanik do we have some problems with testtool and screenshots?

[22:05] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: great!

[22:05] mav_eric paveljanik: if we open a general issue for collecting results I can attache them

[22:05] paveljanik we should coordinate this with James on the list first.

[22:05] mav_eric paveljanik: what do you mean with screenshots

[22:05] paveljanik I'd like to see m6 as RC0 for MacOS X and thus doing all tests like for the release!

[22:05] mav_eric paveljanik: agreed. Coordination with James is important

[22:05] * shaunmcdonald sees there are 6 more tests after the current one is finished

[22:06] mav_eric paveljanik: +1 for m6 to be RC0

[22:06] paveljanik mav_eric: IIRC it is possible somehow to run testtool so it takes screenshots of everything...

[22:06] mav_eric paveljanik: I know this feature but it takes quite a while

[22:06] paveljanik there must be some issue about it, but I can't find it.

[22:06] mav_eric paveljanik: A german tester reported that it took about 30 hours or so

[22:07] paveljanik mav_eric: ;-) But we can test it for the easiest tests first :-)

[22:07] mav_eric paveljanik: and I cannot let my Mac run for 30 hours

[22:07] mav_eric paveljanik: I only have one

[22:07] paveljanik mav_eric: can you please have a look at this issue and report its status?

[22:07] mav_eric paveljanik: issue number?

[22:07] tino mav_eric: It only takes so long when you run all or most of the automatic test but not just the most important ones

[22:08] mav_eric tino: could be

[22:08] paveljanik mav_eric: this is what I don't know... Just test the shots and see...

[22:08] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: I have been using a separate user account and fast user switching to do the testing, with no noticeable problems

[22:08] mav_eric tino: I just heart about it because every window is to be captured during this screenshot test

[22:08] tino mav_eric: Ah

[22:09] mav_eric paveljanik and tino: I'll make a note and ask on the german irc channel

[22:09] paveljanik mav_eric: thanks.

[22:09] mav_eric german is a much more familiar language to me when it comes to testing

[22:09] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: I have had a few stalls in the tests that seem to be caused by problems in the tests, rather than a problem with running with a user in the background

[22:10] paveljanik so, this is all from me.

[22:10] tino mav_eric: ok

[22:10] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: the same occured here for me

[22:10] paveljanik We should find motivated testers ;-)

[22:10] paveljanik e.g. Jogi :-)

[22:10] tino paveljanik: He will start soon ;)

[22:10] mav_eric tino: Maybe I can catch jogi in the german channel

[22:10] paveljanik tino: to say the truth: I expected it :-)))

[22:10] tino paveljanik: And don't be surprised how much he will find :)

[22:11] paveljanik any other point for 2.2?

[22:11] shaunmcdonald I'll be testing en-US release since there is still no point in testing the en-GB release since that bug hasn't been fixed yet

[22:11] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: BTW - you could apply the proposed patch and see if it helps :-)

[22:12] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: James's patches?

[22:12] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: no, IIRC patch from pl.

[22:12] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: re en-GB?

[22:12] paveljanik (in the en-GB issue).

[22:12] * shaunmcdonald hasn't looked at the issue for a while

[22:12] * shaunmcdonald has been very busy with university work

[22:13] paveljanik so 2.2 is almost finished from our side.

[22:13] paveljanik (modulo bugs) ;-)

[22:14] paveljanik next point?

[22:14] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: one more thing for point 2

[22:15] shaunmcdonald the new test scripts for unix that are attached to an issue need to be tested

[22:15] * shaunmcdonald goes to get issue number

[22:15] paveljanik yes

[22:15] shaunmcdonald issue 71973

[22:15] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: that's the ones I already used

[22:15] IZBot qa ENHANCEMENT REOPENED enhancements for ooo_releasetests.sh http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=71973

[22:16] shaunmcdonald they need to be tested so that they can be commited

[22:16] shaunmcdonald I see no problem with them except that testtool has vanished and the script hasn't noticed

[22:17] shaunmcdonald I had that with about 2 or 3 of the scripts

[22:17] * shaunmcdonald is not sure if that is a problem with the new scripts or the .bas tests

[22:17] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: have you had any problems with the new scripts?

[22:18] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: the reported ones

[22:18] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: see above

[22:18] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: the same problem as me?

[22:18] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: the only strange thing I noticed is that some tests fail when called from the scripts

[22:18] mav_eric but won't fail when you call the .bas

[22:18] mav_eric out of the testtool enviroment

[22:18] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: yes.

[22:18] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: that is a known issue with some of the scripts

[22:19] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: You asked me on IRC and I verified

[22:19] paveljanik ok, good - we have a good QA team :-)

[22:19] * shaunmcdonald forgot (needed to verify)

[22:19] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: can you comment on your experience in the issue?

[22:19] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: I'll do the same

[22:19] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: agreed

[22:20] * shaunmcdonald thinks it would be a good idea to start a list of the scripts that fail in the scripts, but not in the testtool manually

[22:20] * mmeeks has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

[22:21] * mmeeks (n=michael@host86-135-139-139.range86-135.btcentralplus.com) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:21] shaunmcdonald Moving on to the next point:

[22:21] shaunmcdonald 3. Point about Aqua Top 10 (upside down bitmaps, TransformProcessType)

[22:21] shaunmcdonald ericb2: ?

[22:22] ericb2 sorry, I was doing tests

[22:23] ericb2 As reminder :the current list is available here : http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua

[22:23] ericb2 Oliver started to work for http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73693

[22:23] IZBot issue 73693: porting DEFECT STARTED aquavcl01->modify Bundle tree for native version

[22:23] * shaunmcdonald got an article published on macnn http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/01/29/openofficeorg.seeks.aid/

[22:23] ericb2 but the change does not work (bad final tree )

[22:24] ericb2 from my side, I worked on issue 73691

[22:24] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW aquavcl01-> calc does instant crashes in some situations http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi? id=73691

[22:24] ericb2 I found some bitmap values have negative values, instead of positive

[22:25] ericb2 adding a test at the good place, hiddes the crashes, and now Calc woks with native menus. Needs more work to find the real cause

[22:25] ericb2 Tino suggested framwork as a good candidate for the origin of the bug. I myself traced a lot, but I have no precise idea yet

[22:26] ericb2 last ismael bitmap changes now allow to see correct bitmaps on native popup menus

[22:27] paveljanik last? It is already in cws or not?

[22:27] ericb2 what is yet missing is check visible or not

[22:27] paveljanik plipli

[22:27] ericb2 paveljanik: no, because some bitmap are still upside down is some conditions

[22:27] ericb2 bitmaps

[22:27] ismael_ paveljanik: i hadn't had time to commit it, and i prefered to do more tests before

[22:27] paveljanik ismael_: OK, good - thanks for info.

[22:28] paveljanik ismael_: real life is always with higher priority :-)

[22:28] ismael_ paveljanik: yes, it is

[22:28] ericb2 some good news about native controls : Mozilla code helps a lot

[22:29] ericb2 I have designed a new way for scrollbars buttons , more simple than previously

[22:29] ericb2 and I found infos to draw the Aqua theme in windows background, but I have to adapt from Mozilla code

[22:30] ericb2 use a native progress bar should be possible too

[22:30] ericb2 some words about Solutions Linux Expo (Paris)

[22:31] ericb2 I met a lot of people ( 2 days 1/2 )

[22:32] ericb2 I think it was very positive

[22:32] ericb2 very important :

[22:32] ericb2 one people proposed to help for Mac OS X port, sending money. With Cusoon, we wait for the official proposal

[22:33] ericb2 the difficulty is to do things correctly, with papers, proofs , ..etc and a maximum of transparency

[22:34] shaunmcdonald ericb2: great, I have seen a few people on the list trying to compile aqua

[22:34] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: that reminds me of my buildbot still not able to configure#

[22:34] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: ah, yes. Since today ( resync with m202) we don't need Fink anymore

[22:34] ericb2 thanks to Pavel for the resync

[22:35] shaunmcdonald ericb2: that will simplify things on the AquaBuild wiki page

[22:35] ericb2 my 202 just finished, and the installed size for the Bundle is now 322 MO only

[22:35] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I have adapted the page too

[22:35] shaunmcdonald ericb2: some people have commented on how difficult it is to build ooo

[22:35] ericb2 thanks to cloph for GNU cp changes

[22:36] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: really, the last mreaining issue is X11SDK

[22:36] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: else, only XCode is needed

[22:36] ericb2 at least on my machine : no X11, no X11SDK

[22:36] shaunmcdonald ericb2: I think cloph_away was going to do a fix for the X11SDK

[22:36] ericb2 and I have to hack np_sdk to make it build

[22:36] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: work in progress, if I'm not wrong

[22:36] paveljanik ericb2: so create proper patch for it ;-)

[22:37] shaunmcdonald ericb2: that will really make it simple for people to build ooo if they want

[22:37] ericb2 another change : Pavel asked on mac@porting list to test TransformProcessType

[22:38] mav_eric did one of you guys have problems with epm?

[22:38] ericb2 paveljanik: cloph changes is the cleanest one : while configure, add --x-includes=/Developer... is the best solution IMHO

[22:38] mav_eric see http://termite.go-oo.org/MacPort2/builds/38/step-configure/2

[22:38] ericb2 I have tested TransformProcessType

[22:39] ericb2 and provided a patch ( see mac@porting list )

[22:39] ericb2 http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=mac&msgNo=4536

[22:39] shaunmcdonald ericb2: it would be a nice idea to have --x-includes=/Dev.... as default if the normal ones cannot be found

[22:40] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: since XCode does provide it, I completely agree, and that's what I proposed cloph

[22:40] ericb2 my change relative to TransformProcessType is maybe not the best one

[22:41] ericb2 I have choosen svmainhook.cxx , just before RAEL() starts

[22:41] ericb2 svmainhook.cxx is called by svmain.cxx, itself called by main.cxx ( from desktop )

[22:42] ericb2 please propose a better solution, if you have one

[22:42] ericb2 I have of course tested, wth m202 + aquavcl01

[22:42] ericb2 it works.

[22:43] ericb2 means (after main.applescript chages), you just have to install the Bundle by Drag and drp, and double click to start Aqua version

[22:43] ericb2 main.applscript changes are necessary (I can provide a patch) , to avoid X11 server to be launched

[22:43] paveljanik I'd like to first see the effects of this function - e.g. the difference to SetFrontProcess, how it could be used at the end as a "quickstarter" etc.

[22:44] * shaunmcdonald wonders if we still need applescript for the aqua version

[22:44] ericb2 paveljanik: just my little tests, the only drawbck i see is we have a second icon in the dock

[22:45] * cloph_away is now known as cloph

[22:45] ericb2 paveljanik: this second icon is here, because a shell script is running ( soffice )

[22:45] * shaunmcdonald thinks that the aqua version doesn't need any applescript

[22:45] ericb2 paveljanik: and I don't know how to hidde it

[22:45] cloph mav_eric: pong still hot?

[22:45] mav_eric cloph: yes. My configure breaks

[22:46] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes, I think a correct tree + a binary is more " Mac like "

[22:46] mav_eric see http://termite.go-oo.org/MacPort2/builds/38/step-configure/

[22:46] mav_eric cloph: and I cleaned my enviroment before starting a new build

[22:46] ericb2 questions about aqua news ?

[22:46] paveljanik mav_eric: have you started your buildbot script with OOo environment?

[22:46] * shaunmcdonald mav_eric: your environment shouldn't affect the bot as a clean one is auto generated

[22:47] ericb2 tino: We save between 40 and 50MB in the binary (quick estimation )

[22:47] mav_eric paveljanik: Sorry I don't know what you mean

[22:47] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: the source .... is auto done in the scripts

[22:47] shaunmcdonald by the build master

[22:48] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: yes, but the build master thinks that epm already exists, probably because EPM variable is set.

[22:48] cloph mav_eric: check the output of "which epm" in that shell

[22:48] ericb2 last but not least, ~ all the people who came to see the aqua version running asked to verify 1) no X11 2) the look

[22:48] ericb2 they didn't care about crashes or missing features

[22:49] paveljanik ericb2: great - this means: 1. we have to get rid about X11 completely. 2. we should care about the look ;-)

[22:49] ericb2 we must have a correct look with Aqua version

[22:49] ericb2 paveljanik: you won ;-)

[22:49] mav_eric cloph: that gives me "no epm" in all paths

[22:49] shaunmcdonald ericb2: that is a very good point about the users

[22:49] mav_eric cloph: that's strange

[22:49] paveljanik mav_eric: echo $EPM?

[22:50] * shaunmcdonald thinks it's time to tease them with some more screenshots ;-)

[22:50] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: e.g. with correct fonts ;-)

[22:50] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: try stopping and starting the bot

[22:50] ericb2 paveljanik: yes, fonts is the node

[22:50] paveljanik I think the good "demo" could be completely working invaders... ;-)

[22:50] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: that's exactly what I will do now

[22:50] paveljanik and it is almost done now....

[22:51] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: with native menus ;-)

[22:51] cloph mav_eric: Or export EPM=internal - that will foce building it...

[22:51] ericb2 I have two questions

[22:52] mav_eric cloph paveljanik : thanks

[22:52] mav_eric oobuildbot: watch MacPort2

[22:52] oobuildbot watching build MacPort2 #39 until it finishes..

[22:53] ericb2 FYI, plipli started to work for fonts implementation

[22:54] ericb2 but I'm not sure plipli (don't see any offense) or one of us has the knowledge to complete the fonts implementation

[22:54] ericb2 and i I can find funds, I ask to pay someone to do the job

[22:54] ericb2 the question is : who disagrees ?

[22:55] paveljanik is there anyone who could be paid for that? ;-)

[22:56] ericb2 in return if we pay for this part, I ask for a documentation in return, more precisely, I think a document like Stephan Scheafer wrote about native menubar or NWF

[22:57] ericb2 who disagrees ?

[22:58] paveljanik is there anyone who could be paid for that? ;-)

[22:59] paveljanik do we have such developer at all?

[23:00] ericb2 paveljanik: I have only one name in mind, but we have to verify , and first, receive the money ( if ever )  ;-)

[23:01] shaunmcdonald sky

[23:02] ericb2 suggestions ?

[23:02] ericb2 opinions ?

[23:03] mav_eric ericb2: for me it sounds good but I agree with Pavel that we need a developer we can pay

[23:03] mav_eric ericb2: plus we need the funds

[23:03] ericb2 mav_eric: I think we should receive some money. Don't know the amount, but probably enough to progress

[23:03] paveljanik and as both of these facts are on the left side of implication, there is no need t discuss the right side of the implication now ;-)

[23:03] mav_eric ericb2: o.k.

[23:04] ericb2 mav_eric: the donator is a people , owner of a little society. He should contact us soon

[23:04] paveljanik ericb2: NO. We need developers^Wcoders to be able to progress. Money is the second level issue...

[23:04] plipli ericb2: anyway, i continue to work on the font part. at least until we have fund to pay someone to do it...

[23:04] mav_eric ericb2: o.k.

[23:05] ericb2 plipli: yes, thanks again

[23:05] paveljanik plipli

[23:06] shaunmcdonald is there any point in advertising for a developer with font experience?

[23:06] shaunmcdonald once we have confirmed that there is some money there we could say that there is a bounty for the work that they do

[23:07] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: exactly

[23:08] ericb2 I have one question : who will work for what in Top 10 of issues ?

[23:08] shaunmcdonald ericb2: as shown in the article that was published at macnn, the mac media are really interested in this

[23:08] shaunmcdonald ericb2: it took them a very short time to post the article after I notified them :-)

[23:09] * plipli will go to sleep, dreaming about fonts, dxarray, carets, kerning, etc... ;-)

[23:09] * ericb2 searchs the link

[23:09] ericb2 plipli: :)

[23:09] ericb2 plipli: good night

[23:10] plipli thx, cu later

[23:10] ericb2 plipli: don't forget, we post all the logs

[23:10] ismael_ plipli: good night

[23:10] paveljanik ericb2: I'll work on issue I'm assign to.

[23:10] ericb2 ismael_: will you take some issue over ?

[23:10] plipli ericb2: on the wiki ?

[23:10] ericb2 plipli: yes

[23:10] ericb2 plipli: here : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs

[23:10] plipli good night all

[23:10] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: So I can give topten to german newssites as well?

[23:10] ericb2 (just the time to create the new entry )

[23:11] ericb2 mav_eric: sure !

[23:11] ismael_ ericb2: i work on issue "calc crash" and biblt (after the crash of calc)

[23:11] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: yes

[23:11] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: I think I should create the first news article for 2007 on the mac port site

[23:11] mav_eric o.k. I'll contact the one journalist who promised to help me

[23:11] plipli ericb2: i work on implementing salatslayout

[23:11] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: good point

[23:11] ismael_ ericb2: now that i have finished my exams i can continue to code

[23:12] * shaunmcdonald thinks he should just pretty much copy ericb2 's blog post

[23:12] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: yes. but do some corrections in wording

[23:12] ericb2 plipli: please contact dev@gsl list to have more infos

[23:12] shaunmcdonald ismael_: lucky you, I have my exams in April, then a dissertation to finish

[23:13] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: for most of us english is a foreign language

[23:13] ericb2 ismael_: BitBlt() function ?

[23:13] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: yep, I was thinking of listing the full top ten items for completeness

[23:13] ericb2 from my side, I'll continue to search issue 73691

[23:13] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW aquavcl01-> calc does instant crashes in some situations http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi? id=73691

[23:13] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: good.

[23:14] ismael_ ericb2: yes once i will have finished work about crash of calc

[23:14] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: see also both of our mails which explain the issues for normal end-users

[23:14] ericb2 ismael_: ok

[23:14] ericb2 ismael_: so I let you continue with it

[23:14] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: which mails?

[23:14] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: because the porting websites will not only be visited by devs?

[23:14] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: the mails ericb2 send regarding topten

[23:14] ericb2 ismael_: and I only concentrate me on native controls

[23:15] ismael_ ericb2: ok

[23:15] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: I know, they are mostly visited by users

[23:16] paveljanik ericb2: what about identifying the problem with cursor instead?

[23:16] ericb2 paveljanik: for me ?

[23:17] paveljanik yes

[23:17] paveljanik we can have beta without native controls and we can't have beta without cursor...

[23:17] ericb2 paveljanik: this is a complex issue, but I can try

[23:18] ericb2 ismael_: can you reassign issue 73691 to you  ?

[23:18] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW aquavcl01-> calc does instant crashes in some situations http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi? id=73691

[23:18] ericb2 ismael_: or shall I ? (if you don't hae enough rights )

[23:18] ericb2 -hae +have

[23:19] ericb2 someone else willing to take over an issue from top 10 ?

[23:21] ericb2 can someone test :

[23:21] ericb2 How do I make copy and paste work with other window managers?

[23:21] ericb2 Running quartz-wm --only-proxy will activate the selection proxying features, but won't manage any of the display's screens allowing you to use a different window manager and use cut and paste as if quartz-wm were running.

[23:21] paveljanik mav_eric: #i63620#

[23:21] IZBot utilities DEFECT NEW testtool: comand snapshot only gets black pictures http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=63620

[23:22] ericb2 any questions ?

[23:22] mav_eric paveljanik: thank you

[23:23] >paveljanik< not sure this is yet public : http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2006/tn2165.html#Q20

[23:24] ericb2 Next point ?

[23:24] ericb2 4. Buildbots: number of bots, improve the wiki page, provide a complete bot install script ?

[23:25] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: can you please summarize the status ?

[23:25] shaunmcdonald ericb2: we currently have 3 bots

[23:25] shaunmcdonald ericb2: there is a generic wiki page for all the buildbots on all platforms

[23:25] * shaunmcdonald looks for it

[23:25] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: my guess is several people proposed timz

[23:26] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: with my next machine, I'll use a bot too

[23:26] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: probably another Imac

[23:26] shaunmcdonald ericb2: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Buildbot

[23:26] shaunmcdonald ericb2: with instructions on http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Buildbot_Steps

[23:27] ericb2 cloph: shaunmcdonald: I got a question : is it difficult to install a bot, for simple user, or hacker, or .. more ( don't know exactly)  ?

[23:27] shaunmcdonald ericb2: my bot has been offline as I have been doing the testing and uni work

[23:28] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: thanks for the link

[23:28] shaunmcdonald if you can build openoffice.org on the mac, then there is not much more difficulty

[23:28] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: what I see, it's not obvious

[23:28] shaunmcdonald ericb2: you will get full support all the way

[23:28] mav_eric ericb2: it's quite easy but you should have some experience with cvs and the terminal

[23:28] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: aqua will become very easy to build soon

[23:29] shaunmcdonald ericb2: working with CWSes is more difficult than setting up bots

[23:29] ericb2 mav_eric: shaunmcdonald : I think we should communicate about the bots, because this is a very nice feature we propose

[23:29] ericb2 mav_eric: shaunmcdonald and usefull

[23:29] cloph ericb2: I'd set up a tinderbox instead of a buildbot. That's far easier, doesn't require a steady/stable internet connection during the build and is under your control (you can tell it what patches it should apply, and what configure line it should use) - but you don't have the possibility to let others start a build.

[23:29] * dave_largo has quit ("Client exiting")

[23:30] cloph But then again: If you don't have a stable internet connection, it is more likely that people will ask you personally to trigger a build...

[23:30] shaunmcdonald ericb2: with some work that mikeleib is doing, in terms of updating the build master, so should get around some of the current problems and make it easier for setting it up

[23:30] ericb2 cloph: ok. If I have the choice between abot and a tinderbox, what do you suggest to me ?

[23:31] cloph ericb2: It it builds one tree exclusively: a bot, it it builds multiple cws, then a tinderbox.

[23:31] ericb2 cloph: what do we need first ?

[23:31] ericb2 cloph: mutliple cws, maybe ..

[23:31] * Moxed has quit ()

[23:31] cloph tinderbox offers the better (more information at one sight) overview pages and has bonsai integration already (you know when your

result is no longer valid because of commits

[23:32] ericb2 cloph: ok, so I'll setup a tinderbox on my next machine ( I could provide you a remote access if you want)

[23:32] cloph ericb2: I'll upload my buildsystem (the builds that automate the whole thing) in the next days...

[23:33] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I'll advise people to setup bots , to balance the distribution

[23:33] cloph (the scripts hold checkouts of the milestones, so you don't need to check out the whole tree everytime you start a build, etc)

[23:33] * shaunmcdonald finds the tinderbox info complex

[23:33] ericb2 cloph: ok, let me know. From my side, I don't know when I'll be able to setup this box

[23:33] * shaunmcdonald also finds that buildbot doesn't give the info in the right way

[23:33] * ismael_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

[23:34] * shaunmcdonald notes that bots just update the source tree as needed

[23:34] cloph shaunmcdonald: too complex? What don't you like about it? (things could be modified at tinderbox as well, you know :-))

[23:35] shaunmcdonald ericb2: ok, I'll try and be ready for more people setting up bots

[23:35] cloph shaunmcdonald: IIRC they do a dmake clean. and then run cvs update over the whole thing.

[23:35] cloph If you have a slow upload, this takes ages.

[23:35] shaunmcdonald cloph: wouldn't it be a slow download speed?

[23:36] * shaunmcdonald goes to the tinderbox status page

[23:36] ericb2 Next point ?

[23:36] cloph shaunmcdonald: No, when you run cvs update, cvs uploads the info of the stuff it has to decide whether your local stuff needs updating/is out of date.. This maxes out my upload, not my download..

[23:37] cloph Doing a plain checkout is download-limited.

[23:37] shaunmcdonald cloph: ah, it doesn't max out either of my upload or download

[23:37] cloph Just copying (or creating a shadow-tree) of an existing Master and only running the update on the modules contained in the cws definitely is faster...

[23:38] * shaunmcdonald looks at http://go-oo.org/tinderbox/aquavcl01/status.html

[23:38] shaunmcdonald cloph: what exactly is the "build time"

[23:38] shaunmcdonald cloph: is that not the commit time?

[23:39] cloph (rm -rf'ing of the existing buildtree, creating the copy and updating to the cws takes less than 10 minutes)

[23:39] cloph No. build time is a bad label - it is the local time of the box.

[23:40] * shaunmcdonald thinks there is not a single true build mentioned on that page

[23:40] * shaunmcdonald thinks that the actual builds would appear under the OS columns

[23:40] ericb2 Next point is misc questions

[23:40] cloph shaunmcdonald: because in that timeframe no build was triggered, since the status only changed after the resync.

[23:40] shaunmcdonald cloph: for example in the column named Mac OSX gcc-4.0.1 (X11)

[23:41] cloph Before there was no reason to start a build, because the results were still valid..

[23:41] cloph Use the "show previous XX hours" links at the bottom to get the older pages

[23:42] cloph http://go-oo.org/tinderbox/tinder.cgi?tree=aquavcl01&start-time=1170275401&display-hours=200 for example

[23:42] cloph Fedora, Mac, SuSE all built successfully - and no changes in the meantime - so no need to rebuild :-)

[23:42] shaunmcdonald cloph: so every 2 hours there is a new row added under "build time"?

[23:43] shaunmcdonald cloph: even if there are no builds

[23:43] cloph shaunmcdonald: Yes (that interval could be configured differently)

[23:43] cloph shaunmcdonald: Yes.

[23:44] shaunmcdonald cloph: the column header "build time" should be changed to "box time"

[23:44] cloph But if no builds are listed, you just have to look at the color of the column-header: green: build finished successfully, red: build failed, pink: dirty, commits after the build started

[23:44] * shaunmcdonald thinks he now understands the layout there

[23:45] shaunmcdonald cloph: in comparision with the buildbot, the time only increases if there is a build happening

[23:46] cloph shaunmcdonald: I personally prefer a more or less constant timeline - so you can better compare the intervals and compare better with other trees.

[23:46] ericb2 Before to stop ( in Misc ) I'll prepare the lightning talk I'll do for Mac OS x port at the FOSDEM ( 24/25th february )

[23:47] ericb2 Next meeting : 9th February, same hour ?

[23:47] mav_eric ericb2: +1

[23:48] paveljanik yes

[23:49] shaunmcdonald ericb2: great

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