Log Mac Meeting 16 March 2007

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[22:00] ericb2 Can we start the meeting ?

[22:01] paveljanik +1

[22:01] ericb2 The agenda is there : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Port_Meetings

[22:01] ericb2 Point 1. Welcome new devs (if any)

[22:02] perezda Hi all. I'm new, though i've been lurking a while.

[22:02] ericb2 perezda: you are welcome

[22:02] paveljanik Hi

[22:02] perezda got my first aquabuild to work this week, and xcode workin so i can step through some code to get me feet wet

[22:03] ericb2 perezda: great.

[22:03] ericb2 perezda: usually, new devs present themselves.

[22:03] ericb2 perezda: maybe you can, in some words

[22:03] perezda sure. my name is Dan Perez, live/work in california

[22:03] perezda SF bay area.

[22:04] ericb2 good place :)

[22:04] perezda small financial company doing IT stuff. been away from coding for awhile doing mostly database work. lots of open source stuff.

[22:04] perezda switched to a mac, and would love to see an Aqua version rolled out :-)

[22:04] tinor Yeah SF bay area is nice :)

[22:04] paveljanik great!

[22:05] perezda hopefully i'll manage to contribute a little after I get up to speed.

[22:05] * mav_eric (n=mav_eric@xdsl-87-78-221-159.netcologne.de) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:05] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to mav_eric

[22:05] ericb2 perezda: thank you for your time

[22:07] shaunmcdonald Are there any other new devs here?

[22:07] alexispigeon yup

[22:07] alexispigeon well, no really new ;)

[22:07] alexispigeon but away for a long time

[22:07] ericb2 alexispigeon: nice to see you again :)

[22:08] shaunmcdonald alexispigeon: Lets have a little introduction to bring us up to date/refresh our minds of who you are ;-)

[22:08] alexispigeon I'll just be "watching" the next meetings, just to catch up with all the new stuff and people

[22:09] * shaunmcdonald remembers that there is a file that he needs to commit for alexispigeon

[22:09] alexispigeon shaunmcdonald: ok. i'm living in spain (barcelona, where the next OOoCon will be held \o/), but i'm french actually

[22:09] ericb2 perezda: http://ftp.cusoo.org/Photos/SanFrancisco_WWDC2006/  ;-)

[22:10] ericb2 perezda: see the number 66

[22:10] alexispigeon i'm a java developer, and so far i used to carry out the QA for the french mac builds

[22:10] tinor BTW: Has the date for the next OOo conf. been fixed already?

[22:10] perezda ericb2: nice. i run/cycle there all the time. ;-)

[22:11] ericb2 perezda:  ;-)

[22:11] alexispigeon i had to give up the QA during the last months, but i hope to get back to testing soon :)

[22:11] paveljanik tinor: I don't think so :-(

[22:11] tinor paveljanik: sad :(

[22:11] alexispigeon tinor: it was planned for the 3rd week of september, but nothing's fixed so far AFAIK

[22:12] alexispigeon next new dev?

[22:12] ericb2 @all new devs : our faces : http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/developers/currentdevelopers/index.html

[22:13] shaunmcdonald tinor: yes it has been, just about fixed, it will be announced soon

[22:13] tinor shaunmcdonald: That's good to hear

[22:14] ericb2 Next point ?

[22:14] shaunmcdonald tinor: 19-21 september, with a possible business day on 18th sep

[22:14] tinor shaunmcdonald: I'd like to attend this time and combine it with a trip to Barcelona with my wife

[22:14] * dave_largo has quit ("Client exiting")

[22:14] tinor shaunmcdonald: Need to find cheap flights early :)

[22:15] tinor shaunmcdonald: Thx!

[22:15] shaunmcdonald tinor: it appears to be the first time I will be out of Scotland for my birthday :-/

[22:15] tinor shaunmcdonald: When is yoiur birthday?

[22:15] alexispigeon tinor: you definetly should, since the weekend after is the celebration of the city's "guardian"

[22:15] shaunmcdonald 20th September

[22:16] tinor shaunmcdonald: He this is also the birthday of my brother and my daughter :)

[22:16] shaunmcdonald born in 1986, probably after a lot of you lot starting in computing ;-)

[22:16] tinor alexispigeon: Ok, good to know :)

[22:17] * shaunmcdonald hasn't yet met someone else who has the same birthday has himself

[22:17] * shaunmcdonald sees the world is getting smaller :-)

[22:17] ericb2 Point 2 ?

[22:18] shaunmcdonald 2. Latest Aqua news and not yet integrated patches + Top 10 status

[22:19] shaunmcdonald Watch the way you build it or which libraries you use to link it, because it may not run on a machine without certain libraries if it is not doe right

[22:19] cloph Where do I find the topTen in the wiki? There a lots of todo-lists, but I didn't find the topTen

[22:19] ericb2 just for say Sebastien ( alias plipli ) cannot attend tonight

[22:19] ericb2 cloph: one minute

[22:19] shaunmcdonald cloph: it is in a news article

[22:19] shaunmcdonald cloph: http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/news/2007/20070203toptenbeforealpha.html

[22:20] shaunmcdonald cloph: as of yesterday, 3 of those items were marked as being fixed

[22:20] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: you are faster than me

[22:20] ericb2 + I posted a mail to mac@porting list : http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=mac&msgNo=4952

[22:21] ericb2 + http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=mac&msgNo=4953

[22:24] * shaunmcdonald has had a look at a recent build and ooo is far more stable, but crashes on quiting

[22:24] * ericb2 proposes to discuss all issues of Top Ten, to make a point

[22:24] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: TransferableHelper?

[22:25] ericb2 paveljanik: same here

[22:26] ericb2 first in the list is issue 72248

[22:26] IZBot porting DEFECT STARTED vcl compiled with debug crashes http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=72248

[22:26] tinor ericb2: Sounds like a clipboard issue

[22:26] * shaunmcdonald finds it difficult to launch X11 ooo and aqua ooo at the same time

[22:26] tinor ericb2: Well regarding 72248...

[22:27] tinor ericb2: Not much progress in the last two weeks

[22:27] tinor The last state was:

[22:27] tinor 1. I could not reproduce the problem when creating a AquaSalBitmap in svdem

[22:27] paveljanik for now, I use cd vcl; build debug=t; touch aqua/gdi/salbmp.cxx; build and it works, I have debugs info...

[22:28] * shaunmcdonald goes to install his latest build of aqua

[22:28] tinor 2. It works when you have just one of the shared_array members in AquaSalBmp - which is weird I know

[22:28] tinor 3. When forcing the use of the non-member template variant of the shared_array it works also

[22:29] tinor All in all a weird issue but I would simply call it a compiler bug due to the failure to reprod in a simple test program

[22:30] paveljanik yes.

[22:30] paveljanik It is not that important to solve it now ;-)

[22:30] tinor Could as well be a symptom of a memory issue (mem-overwrite, heap corruption etc.)

[22:31] tinor paveljanik: Unless it has none of the causes just mentioned ;)

[22:31] tinor paveljanik: But who knows that ;)

[22:31] paveljanik yes, but why only in debug? And only in this file? ;-)

[22:31] paveljanik And only with -O0? ;-)

[22:31] paveljanik too many questions ;-)

[22:32] paveljanik an idea: it crashes in constructor, right?

[22:32] paveljanik IIRC...

[22:32] ericb2 paveljanik: when we don't build with debug, do we use -O0 ?

[22:32] tinor paveljanik: I'm trying to find the answers hence working on this isssue

[22:32] tinor paveljanik: yep

[22:32] paveljanik what about moving this function of this file and compile it separately to be able too dsee the assembler difference?

[22:32] paveljanik (only in this function...)

[22:33] tinor paveljanik: Worth a try

[22:33] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: with this latest build I didn't get a crash [22:33] * paveljanik has to refresh the real problem.

[22:34] ericb2 next : issue 72250

[22:34] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW aquavcl01: toolbar icon click -> crash with native menus http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=72250

[22:34] * shaunmcdonald doesn't use ericb2 's /usr/local/lib any more :-)

[22:34] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: good ;)

[22:34] tinor paveljanik: But I agree that this is maybe not the most important problem and honestly probably not even belongs to the Top 10 list

[22:35] paveljanik tino: yes. It is top 1 on the after-top-10 ;-)

[22:35] tinor In the end it just bothers us developers and not the end user who will not run debug versions

[22:35] paveljanik tinor: it is only boring to always recompile salbmp without debug.

[22:35] paveljanik yes

[22:35] paveljanik exactly

[22:35] tinor paveljanik: We could also work-around it differently I think

[22:36] ericb2 I'm probably confused, but is the second issue the one about Tips ?

[22:38] tinor paveljanik: But you brought up a good point "important" - what is most important at the moment with regards to aquavcl01 dev and not yet covered by a developer(s)?

[22:39] paveljanik tinor: tooltips crashes.

[22:39] paveljanik to have somewhat stable environment, we have to disable tooltips

[22:39] ericb2 paveljanik: IMHO this is the most annoying issue with fonts

[22:40] tinor paveljanik: And the cause for this is not know yet I assume

[22:40] paveljanik tino: yes. sparcmoz did some investigation on this.

[22:40] ericb2 tinor: it is

[22:40] tino tinor

[22:40] ericb2 tinor: but we have no clear idea to fix that

[22:40] * ericb2 has no idea

[22:41] tinor ericb2: So the cause is know?

[22:41] paveljanik the other one is GetPosSize crash IIRC but I think it has the same root cause.

[22:42] ericb2 issue 73691 is fixed

[22:43] IZBot timed out - please visit the URL yourself: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73691

[22:43] ericb2 issue 73689 is IMHO close to be fixed : refresh works correctly here using plipli changes

[22:43] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW aquavcl01-> fix redrawing/refresh issue on Aqua version http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73689

[22:44] paveljanik ericb2: is plipli?s patch attached there_

[22:44] paveljanik ?

[22:44] ericb2 paveljanik: sorry, plipli is not there

[22:44] ericb2 paveljanik: I believed it was in the cvs

[22:44] ericb2 cws

[22:45] paveljanik the current cws doesn't work properly regarding refresh

[22:45] paveljanik sometimes, you have to move the window, sometimes fonts do not redraw etc. [22:45] tinor paveljanik: Confirmed!

[22:45] ericb2 paveljanik: I didn't notice. I'll have a closer look

[22:46] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: it is completely unpredictable if the redraw is done or not

[22:46] ericb2 ok, 73689 needs some work, or a final commit if the code I share with Sebastien is not in the cws

[22:46] paveljanik yes

[22:47] paveljanik we would liek to share the code as well...

[22:47] ericb2 paveljanik: I really believed you commited it

[22:47] paveljanik ericb2: cvs up? ;-)

[22:47] ericb2 paveljanik: my code is not clean at all, and I have even conflicts when I do cvs up

[22:48] ericb2 paveljanik: I prefer see with plipli tomorrow or sunday

[22:48] ericb2 issue 73690 is fixed IMHO

[22:48] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW aquavcl01-> fix missing cursor http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73690

[22:49] ericb2 can people confirm ?

[22:49] ismael_ bye

[22:49] ericb2 the fact is invert() works since some times, so the cursor. What is not completed is the other parts in invert()

[22:49] ericb2 ismael_: please

[22:50] ismael_ ericb2: yes, what?

[22:50] ericb2 ismael_: can you tell us some words with mikesic about INVERT_SAL_TRACKFRAME ?

[22:51] ismael_ ericb2: sorry, but i didn't work on INVERT_SAL_TRACKFRAME, i implemented only SAL_INVERT_50 in the invert function

[22:51] ericb2 ismael_: ok, nevermind

[22:51] ericb2 ismael_: Damien did, no ?

[22:51] ismael_ ericb2: no, he worked on drawAlphaRect

[22:52] ericb2 ismael_: ah, yes, sorry.

[22:52] mikesic ericb2: I did work on INVERT_TRACKFRAME

[22:53] ismael_ bye

[22:53] ericb2 mikesic: are you done ? or does it need more work ?

[22:53] ericb2 ismael_: bye

[22:53] * ismael_ has quit ()

[22:53] mikesic ericb2: I have posted the patch - I think its ok - but others need to test.

[22:55] ericb2 mikesic: I have tested it, but I'm not yet sure what we can expect : the only test I have in mind is select a menubar, and move it in the window ( as a floating bar)

[22:55] ericb2 mikesic: how do more complete tests ?

[22:56] mikesic ericb2: I just put a break in the new section of code and tried with the interface to reach it. I'll post some tests to the mailing list.

[22:57] ericb2 mikesic: thank you very much ! I'll test too

[22:57] ericb2 issue 73688 now

[22:57] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW aquavcl01->use default system font instead of helvetica in aqua http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73688

[22:58] ericb2 we still don't use correct fonts in the user interface, and this is an important issue : defautl is simply uggly

[22:58] ericb2 AFAIK, Michel Renon was working on this issue

[23:00] ericb2 issue 73692 is FIXED since Pavel implemented isOffscreen()

[23:00] IZBot porting DEFECT RESOLVED FIXED aquavcl01 -> BitBlt() function to be implemented http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73692

[23:00] ericb2 issue 73693

[23:00] IZBot porting DEFECT STARTED aquavcl01->modify Bundle tree for native version http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73693

[23:01] ericb2 Oliver is working on it, but this is not a critical issue : we know it works

[23:02] paveljanik ericb2: I haven?t implemented it. I only added its usage on proper places.

[23:02] ericb2 paveljanik: was it your patch, who fixed it ?

[23:02] paveljanik yes, but I haven't implemented isOffscreen.

[23:03] mav_eric just did a quick test

[23:03] ericb2 if I'm not wrong , all issues of Top 10 have been watched

[23:05] ericb2 is someone else than Michel working on fonts ?

[23:05] mav_eric Cursor is here in my latest Aquabuild but if I select to show the control characters the cursor won't work

[23:06] mav_eric ericb2: yes there was a patch from pavel that fixed the Bundle think

[23:07] ericb2 mav_eric: Pavel provided a script, reorganizing the Bundle, to make it work, but this is not in the cws

[23:07] ericb2 mav_eric: Oliver is working on that

[23:07] paveljanik and it won't be there ;-)

[23:07] mav_eric ericb2: is it the same script that's published in the wiki

[23:09] ericb2 I have a question: who is working on the Tips issue  ?

[23:10] * mikesic_ (n=Mike@ has joined #ooo_macport

[23:10] * mikesic has quit ()

[23:12] ericb2 Last Aqua news now

[23:13] ericb2 Etsusho Kato proposed a nice patch to fix issue 73694

[23:13] IZBot porting DEFECT VERIFIED FIXED aquavcl01-> accented chars and keys in keyboard are missing http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73694

[23:13] ericb2 sorry Etsushi Kato

[23:13] ericb2 I didn't test the last patch. Who did  ?

[23:14] ericb2 ok, I continue

[23:15] ericb2 With Sebastien, we finally found a solution to use HIView

[23:15] ericb2 for that, we wrote a wiki page :

[23:15] ericb2 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Implementing_HIView

[23:15] tinor paveljanik: I have problems building 'desktop' the complain:

[23:16] tinor paveljanik: can't open /usr/local/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib referenced from libvcl...

[23:16] ericb2 none cares ?

[23:17] ericb2 tinor: I'm explaining what we did this week ...

[23:17] tinor ericb2: Oh, sorry that I interrupted you

[23:18] paveljanik tinor: who links with /usr/local/...?

[23:18] ericb2 tinor: for your problem, ask Shaun : this is my fault : my archive is not correctly built, and there is a solution Shaun will explain you

[23:18] ericb2 paveljanik: tinor is probably using my old archive from the first Mac Intel machine (last year )

[23:19] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: My latest build which is currently uploading does not link to /usr/local/lib since it no longer exists

[23:19] shaunmcdonald http://termite.go-oo.org/MacPort1/builds/157

[23:19] tinor ericb2: yes thats probably true

[23:19] shaunmcdonald oobuildbot: status MacPort1

[23:19] oobuildbot MacPort1: building(generating install set) [ETA 26m53s]

[23:19] * shaunmcdonald uses an archive from ericb2 that is about 10 months old

[23:20] ericb2 was a good archive, we will miss you ...

[23:20] shaunmcdonald tinor: I was getting that from a user who used my build

[23:20] shaunmcdonald tinor: I did not get the error, and could run aqua fine

[23:22] shaunmcdonald tinor: I have now moved the folder /usr/local/lib, so the build process cannot link against any libraries in there

[23:22] * shaunmcdonald is thinking that he should do a clean install to get back to a normal build environment

[23:22] tinor shaunmcdonald: Well I didn't get the error either when doing the last full build of aquavcl01 but now when trying to build desktop I do get it

[23:23] shaunmcdonald tinor: I started a build in the last 5 hours, with fresh code from cvs and did not get it

[23:24] shaunmcdonald tinor: this will be an issue with some libraries or a bad environment

[23:24] tinor shaunmcdonald: Looks like

[23:25] shaunmcdonald tinor: have you tried using a clean shell? I have often found it helps from time to time

[23:25] tinor shaunmcdonald: Will try it

[23:26] ericb2 ... all instructions for HIView have been put in the link I mentionned previously, and Sebastien and me are investigating for 1) a better understanding of HI events 2) a more efficient implementation

[23:26] shaunmcdonald tinor: I also don't like restarting (but do like taking my MacBook to uni), so restarting can sometimes help too

[23:26] ericb2 as example, I tested with HIComboboxes : combobox_search_and_replace02_14mars07.jpg

[23:27] ericb2 as you can see, this is not complete (text part does not completely work, and we have to understand better ), but it looks pretty

[23:27] ericb2 Last but not least, i have updated the wiki page about controls : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Porting_-_Native_Controls

[23:28] ericb2 excepted a lot of reading documentation about HI* this week, that's all for me

[23:28] ericb2 for the curious, please test the link I provided onmac@porting. the code is very well written

[23:29] ericb2 See  : http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=mac&msgNo=4963

[23:29] ericb2 Questions  ?

[23:30] ericb2 Next point ?

[23:31] ericb2 Point 3) 2.2 & QA status

[23:31] paveljanik m13 was made ready today

[23:31] paveljanik this will be next RC and hopefully the final one.

[23:32] paveljanik I don;t know about QA.

[23:33] ericb2 Anyboby aware about QA for 2.2  ?

[23:33] mav_eric paveljanik: James McKenzie just asked about german QA yesterday or so and I told him that so far we haven't found any regression or showstopper for the Mac

[23:34] mav_eric neither on PPC nor on Intel

[23:34] ericb2 mav_eric: good , 2.2 wil be a great version

[23:34] mav_eric I have downloaded Thorsten Bosbachs app and see if I can play with it a little bit over the weekend

[23:34] ericb2 so far the best we ever provided

[23:35] mav_eric on Sunday I plan to run the automated release test while I'm with my friends so that the Mac isn't disturbed

[23:35] mav_eric ericb2: I keep my fingers crossed that you're true

[23:36] ericb2 mav_eric: me too

[23:36] mav_eric the only "problem" I have is to catch James in order to discuss the QA results

[23:36] mav_eric the app from Thorsten can be found here http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=189991

[23:37] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: I have started running build in a separate user account in the background using fast user switching

[23:37] shaunmcdonald James has had one error that I did not get in the release tests

[23:38] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: I tried this too but this gave me some strange errors that didn't occure when not running the script in the background

[23:38] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: which errord did James get?

[23:38] mav_eric an example of the results from the app is here http://vcltesttoolglue.sourceforge.net/20061218vi.html

[23:38] * mav_eric notes that Thorsten used Mac OS X :-)

[23:38] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: http://smsm1.selfip.info/~oootestsmsm1/ooo/testtoolresults/2007-03-12/a_summary.txt

[23:39] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: they are my results

[23:39] * shaunmcdonald goes to look at mail

[23:39] shaunmcdonald Comment from James: "Nice. I got eight errors. How did you get rid of the error in f_updt_pkgmgr?"

[23:40] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: I'll see which results I get or what we have from german QA

[23:41] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: :-)

[23:41] delliott shaunmcdonald: How did you get on with your write-up?

[23:42] ericb2 Next point ?

[23:42] cloph Since it turned out, that mingwport-breaker was because of a reordering of libs during linking, I'd like to ask why this matters and whether there is a special rule that has to be met for Mac... See the following URLs for the makefile-diffs http://util.openoffice.org/source/browse/util/xmlhelp/util/makefile.mk?r1=1.9&r2= http://framework.openoffice.org/source/browse/framework/binfilter/filter/source/bf_offwrp/makefile.mk?r1

[23:43] paveljanik cloph: static libs has to be at the end of the link line

[23:44] paveljanik otherwise the rules are the same as on unxlngi

[23:44] paveljanik cloph: do you have a link to the build error?

[23:45] paveljanik ericb2: yes

[23:45] cloph Sure.. It is in tinderbox :-) - wait a second...

[23:46] cloph http://go-oo.org/tinderbox/gunzip.cgi?tree=mingwport03&brief-log=1173684529.29252#104477

[23:46] cloph The error of the first one (in xmlhelp)

[23:47] cloph The binfilter one is right below, but slightly intermixed with the output from another module

[23:47] ericb2 Point 4 : Macport and Google Summer of Code

[23:48] ericb2 Florian and me proposed 3 subjects.

[23:48] ericb2 See : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2007#Porting:_Mac_OS_X_native_port

[23:48] ericb2 More informations : http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/openoffice_org_has_been_accepted

[23:48] ericb2 Waiting for students  :-)

[23:48] paveljanik cloph: yup, sablot is a static lib...

[23:50] ericb2 paveljanik: yes, we discussed about that with cloph this afternoon. What I didn't understand, is why this change in the cws ?

[23:50] paveljanik don't know - maybe with mingw, all static libs has to be at the beginning of the line 8)

[23:50] ericb2 :)

[23:51] ericb2 back to the Google SoC : I'll push Florian subject ( native printing ) in first position and I invite people voting (( not sure they are here), to do so

[23:52] ericb2 we probably won't have more than one selected subject ( if ever )

[23:53] ericb2 C omments  ?

[23:53] ericb2 Point 5 : Update : http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/timeline.html

[23:54] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: is this point yours ?

[23:54] shaunmcdonald ericb2: yes, but I haven't had time in the past week to look at it yet

[23:54] shaunmcdonald if any one has ideas, please let me know

[23:55] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I have some, because we have to add Top 10 in the list, and what I proposed during FOSDEM :

[23:55] ericb2 http://eric.bachard.free.fr/FOSDEM2007/fosdem1.sxi

[23:56] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: as starting point

[23:58] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: can we postpone this point to next week ?

[23:58] shaunmcdonald ericb2: yes please, I should have time to look at it, and produce a draft new one by then :-)

[23:59] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: ok, good :)

[23:59] ericb2 Point 6) Mac port and WWDC

[23:59] shaunmcdonald :-D

[23:59] ericb2 Intro : FYI, I received a proposal for Apple Design Award, and I'll politely refuse, explaining we won't be ready.

[00:00] ericb2 URL  : http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/

[00:00] paveljanik proposal?

[00:00] shaunmcdonald ericb2: you never know what miracle might happen ;-)

[00:00] paveljanik I think that the person who proposed that proposal is simply blind or dumb like hell...

[00:01] paveljanik 8)

[00:01] shaunmcdonald there is always next year

[00:01] paveljanik ;-)

[00:01] ericb2 paveljanik: no idea, but the most correct is to stay polite

[00:02] ericb2 paveljanik: and answer we are not ready

[00:02] paveljanik ericb2: what proposal?

[00:02] paveljanik can you show it to us?

[00:02] ericb2 paveljanik: this is the same as you can see on the site, just as email

[00:02] paveljanik ADC News?

[00:02] shaunmcdonald ericb2: I think that e-mail went out to everyone

[00:02] paveljanik yes

[00:03] ericb2 paveljanik: http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/ada/

[00:03] * shaunmcdonald got one too

[00:03] ericb2 paveljanik: + a personnal mail from an Apple people

[00:03] mav_eric paveljanik: yes - it was in the latest ADC News Email - at least in the one I got and I'm only a free subscriber

[00:03] shaunmcdonald ericb2: ahh, a personal e-mail too

[00:03] ericb2 paveljanik: that's the reason why I'll politely answer

[00:04] paveljanik if you think so ;-)

[00:04] * shaunmcdonald wonders if we will have a beta release by June ;-)

[00:05] ericb2 For OpenOffice.org project, and MAc OS x port , it is very important to be present at the WWDC, to find most infos possible, to meet Apple people, and make the port progress.

[00:06] ericb2 I have asked for a donation on my blog, using Cusoon

[00:07] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: you're building aqua?

[00:07] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: yes

[00:07] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: I can build both aqua and X11 ;-)

[00:07] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: o.k. so no need for me to do the same

[00:07] ericb2 discussing with my Apple contact, I have proposed several people. The most active in the port exactly

[00:08] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: I only do it sometimes

[00:08] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: o.k.

[00:08] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: most of the time I build X11 by adding --with-x on the config line

[00:10] ericb2 Pavel told me he's not interested to attend, Shaun is Sebastien is and I am

[00:11] ericb2 other students like Ismael and Damien have exams during the WWDC, so they are not

[00:11] ericb2 Waiting, I'll try to find enough money for the travel

[00:11] * shaunmcdonald would normally have exams, but since it is the final year, he has the exams earlier in the year

[00:12] delliott Damn you

[00:13] ericb2 the most important is not the conferences, but the workshops and labs, where we can ask questions all the day, meeting real apple engineers

[00:13] * mav_eric first needs to learn coding before attending WWDC

[00:13] delliott I have 7 exams between April 24th and May 14th

[00:14] ericb2 who disagrees my proposal to search money for attending the WWDC ?

[00:14] paveljanik I think it would be much cheeper to pay Apple to give us one developer for one day after the OOoCon... where we all will be anyway...

[00:15] paveljanik instead of throwing money over the ocean...

[00:15] delliott Attending WWDC is very expensive.

[00:15] delliott flights + hotel + ticket + expenses

[00:15] delliott I wish Apple would make the tickets free.

[00:15] ericb2 delliott: forgot tickets

[00:16] delliott The ticket is $1,295

[00:16] ericb2 delliott: and we can receive more help for students

[00:16] shaunmcdonald delliott: even if it was only for open source project where it was free

[00:17] delliott Yeah [00:17] delliott They must recognise that open source software is important for the platform

[00:17] delliott If I ever become Apple CEO then I'll make WWDC free :D

[00:18] perezda i would offer my place up, but i only have a small 1 bed apartment :-)

[00:18] delliott perezda: Do you live in the Bay Area?

[00:18] perezda but atleast if someone comes, i'll meet you.

[00:18] perezda yup.

[00:18] delliott Where about?

[00:18] perezda Burlingame.

[00:18] ericb2 perezda: would be great :)

[00:18] * shaunmcdonald will happily sleep in a tent or on a floor ;-)

[00:19] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: lol

[00:19] delliott Cool :)

[00:19] delliott If I get to WWDC then we'll need to meet up

[00:19] delliott I think I'll be staying in MV

[00:19] * shaunmcdonald has slept in a tent with howling wind and rain before

[00:19] ericb2 well, this is conditionnal : I'm waiting for informations, and they don't come, so ... nothing is sure at all

[00:20] perezda well, i have a sofa, which is better than the floor atleast.

[00:20] tinor paveljanik: Last question for today: What tool did you use to track memory leaks on Mac OS X?

[00:20] delliott shaunmcdonald: Ahh, the awesomeness of Scotland

[00:21] paveljanik tinor: leaks ;-)

[00:21] paveljanik leaks(1) is very good

[00:21] tinor paveljanik: Thx!

[00:21] shaunmcdonald delliott: the outermost the western Hebrides that was, any further was and you are on to the North Atlantic

[00:22] <shaunmcdonald> delliott: it was near the radar for the planes over the north east atlantic :-D

[00:23] <delliott> Hehe

[00:23] <delliott> I've never been there

[00:23] <mav_eric> O.K. next meeting next week same time same place?

[00:23] <shaunmcdonald> mav_eric: +1

[00:23] <delliott> Oh sorry, did I interrupt a meeting?

[00:23] <delliott> Whoops.

[00:24] <ericb2> Ok, I'm copying the log

[00:24] <ericb2> delliott: you are welcome :)

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