Log Mac Meeting 11 July 2007
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[14:00] paveljanik Gong, 12:00 UTC :-)
[14:03] PhilippL So, any new developers ?
[14:04] paveljanik 1. Welcome new devs joining Mac OS X port
[14:05] paveljanik no
[14:05] paveljanik 2. Latest Aqua news / Work in progress
[14:05] paveljanik I think the most important news is that aquavcl01 is in SRC680_m220.
[14:06] PhilippL aquavcl02 is resynced to 220 thanks to paveljanik
[14:06] paveljanik yes. aquafilepicker01 is nominated.
[14:06] PhilippL paveljanik: ah, sounds like a resync soon ?
[14:07] paveljanik PhilippL: yup :-)
[14:07] paveljanik but easy one.
[14:08] PhilippL more news ?
[14:08] paveljanik ericb2: added also one AI:
[14:08] paveljanik Action Item : decide aqua status objective for OOoCon2007 : beta or not beta ?
[14:08] paveljanik I'd like to hear about new widgets etc :-)
[14:08] paveljanik this was only about meta-aqua news :-)
[14:09] PhilippL ismael_: made spin fields, list boxes and tab control.
[14:09] PhilippL and they look very nice :-)
[14:09] ismael_ PhilippL: and textfiels, and non-dropdown listboxes
[14:10] ismael_ PhilippL: thanks
[14:10] PhilippL there is a native progress bar now in the status bar.
[14:10] ericb2 last changes are : progress bars, native tabs and spinboxes, text, native EditBox, MultiLineEditBox, Leopard compatibility ... use System Preferences colors for highlighted text
[14:10] ericb2 PhilippL: sorry ..
[14:10] PhilippL And as we have resynced now I'll add svtools and change the rest of the progress bars, too.
[14:11] paveljanik about progressbar - what about changing the splashscreen one with the native progressbar?
[14:11] ericb2 as usual the changelog : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb#Changelog
[14:11] PhilippL but actually I think this is topic 4 of the agenda.
[14:11] ericb2 paveljanik: I already asked :)
[14:11] ismael_ paveljanik: +1
[14:11] paveljanik PhilippL: 8) latest aqua news is about aquavcl02 status, no?
[14:12] PhilippL paveljanik: The progress on the intro bitmap is not a progress bar; also that is drawn to a virtual device. So the change is a little bit more complicated.
[14:12] paveljanik PhilippL: ah. I haven't investigated it.
[14:12] PhilippL paveljanik: I guess we can do a separate implementation for aqua alone which will then be adopted for all platforms.
[14:12] paveljanik ok, any other news?
[14:13] ericb2 paveljanik: I'll commit the last changes for the testtool in aquavcl02 today
[14:13] paveljanik ericb2: please test them in full build first.
[14:13] ericb2 paveljanik: ok
[14:13] hdu_hh paveljanik: appleevents opendoc+quit work
[14:14] ericb2 hdu_hh: even when dragging a document in the Finder ?
[14:14] * cloph_awa1 is now known as cloph
[14:14] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to cloph
[14:14] * paveljanik is now watching OOo runnign with aquavcl02's VCL: great work!
[14:14] hdu_hh ericb2: thats the appleevent opencontent => not implemented yet AFAIK
[14:14] paveljanik ismael_: thanks for textboxes!
[14:15] ericb2 hdu_hh: ok
[14:15] ismael_ paveljanik: they don't have focus rect yet
[14:16] paveljanik ok, next point?
[14:16] PhilippL would that be the action item ?
[14:16] paveljanik 3. aquafilepicker01 integration
[14:16] paveljanik ah, AI.
[14:16] paveljanik ericb2: ?
[14:17] ericb2 paveljanik: Joerg asked last week : wil we consider beta status reached for OOoCon2007
[14:17] paveljanik Action Item : decide aqua status objective for OOoCon2007 : beta or not beta ?
[14:18] PhilippL IMHO not. We don't have beta status until we are feature complete.
[14:18] * johanhenselmans (email@example.com) has joined #ooo_macport
[14:18] ericb2 paveljanik: we had a week to decide
[14:18] paveljanik I think we should first start with naming the current status.
[14:18] paveljanik I think we are in pre-alpha now.
[14:18] PhilippL call it developer preview
[14:18] PhilippL ?
[14:18] paveljanik yes
[14:18] paveljanik I think we may reach alpha for OOoCon2007.
[14:18] ericb2 PhilippL: that's what I proposed first, but Joerg asked for somethin gmore precise
[14:19] PhilippL ericb2: hmm, which joerg ? jogi ?
[14:19] ericb2 for alpha, Drag and drop is still missing
[14:19] ericb2 PhilippL: yes Joerg == jogi / macjogi ... sunrayjogi *jogi :p
[14:21] paveljanik so lets define what we want to have for OOoCon...
[14:21] paveljanik (integrated!)
[14:21] PhilippL I think we can reach an alpha until OOoCon.
[14:21] * paveljanik hopes no more hack-builds...
[14:21] ericb2 PhilippL: for me, the 5 points we defined last week defines alpha
[14:21] ericb2 paveljanik: please stop ..
[14:22] paveljanik ericb2: ?
[14:22] paveljanik ericb2: can you please paste them here again? [14:22] paveljanik (these 5 points)
[14:23] ericb2 the points were : drag and drop, resolution issues , click on document => OOo opens the document , native filepicker , add more Aqua look
[14:23] PhilippL so basically missing is DnD and opening a document if OOo is not already running.
[14:23] johanhenselmans What about crashes?
[14:23] ericb2 if I'm not wrong, PhilippL fixed Leopard issues
[14:24] JoergB jogi_aw johanhenselmans johanhenselmans_
[14:24] PhilippL ericb2: Just one.
[14:24] ericb2 PhilippL: ok
[14:24] PhilippL ericb2: sadly some of the NWF does not work anymore on leaopard.
[14:24] ericb2 PhilippL: Leopard does not install on my machine. Son't know why :/ I'll try external disk
[14:24] paveljanik I'd like to see some Dock menu for alpha as well.
[14:24] johanhenselmans I'd say that any crashes that are in the bug list should be fixed.
[14:24] paveljanik johanhenselmans: +1
[14:25] paveljanik but this should be general goal for every our release or prerelease.
[14:25] PhilippL paveljanik: there is one. The question is what would you want to appear additionally in the dock menu ?
[14:25] ericb2 paveljanik: what do you mean with Dock menu ?
[14:26] ericb2 PhilippL: what does not appear on Leopard ?
[14:26] PhilippL ericb2: most notably the window background.
[14:27] PhilippL ericb2: the controls mostly work as far as i could see.
[14:27] >PhilippL< : this is normal : hte background is flat now
[14:27] paveljanik PhilippL: looks like Quit is there.
[14:27] paveljanik I think this is enough 8)
[14:27] paveljanik I thought there was nothing.
[14:27] paveljanik and it works properly, so I think it is enough.
[14:28] paveljanik 8)
[14:28] PhilippL paveljanik: actually I think this is gained automatically from the system.
[14:28] paveljanik yes, but OOo handles it properly - Do you want to save etc...
[14:28] * ericb2 would like to see the paint issue for Barcelona
[14:29] paveljanik paint issue?
[14:29] paveljanik black?
[14:29] ericb2 paveljanik: yes : black frame before font list e.g.
[14:29] PhilippL ericb2: I'll see what i can do. Actually I suspect it isn't that hard.
[14:29] paveljanik yes, that would be good to have it fixed.
[14:30] ericb2 what is the delay remaining before 2.3 code freeze ?
[14:30] PhilippL effectively two weeks at the most.
[14:30] PhilippL depends on how fast we can convince QA.
[14:31] ericb2 In last aqua news, we forgot to mention cremlae work
[14:31] ericb2 Mac Address book
[14:32] ericb2 since m220 resync, it can be tested to with aqua build ( not sure for X11 )
[14:32] PhilippL good point. I see that patrick luby and ed peterlin contributed to that ?
[14:32] ericb2 PhilippL: yes, premac/postmac issue
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[14:33] ericb2 cremlae: hi Omer
[14:33] ericb2 cremlae: can you please tell us more about your work in progress ?
[14:33] cremlae ericb2: Hi, Eric.
[14:33] cremlae ericb2: Sure...
[14:34] cremlae I have the address book integrated for everything I think people can do while viewing data sources.
[14:35] cremlae I have a patch that fixes the mail merge issue and one that allows for multiple groups of the same name.
[14:35] ericb2 cremlae: would be better you commit it yourself
[14:35] cremlae What is left: commenting, testing, and cocoa.
[14:35] ericb2 paveljanik: PhilippL I propose we ask for cremlae commit rights
[14:36] PhilippL sure. Just talk to _Nesshof_ ?
[14:36] ericb2 PhilippL: I'll do
[14:36] ericb2 cremlae: please have a look at my wiki page : you'll have to file a second issue
[14:37] paveljanik ericb2: via issue ;-) +1 for commit right
[14:37] cremlae ericb2, PhilippL: Thank you :)
[14:37] paveljanik ok, next point?
[14:37] ericb2 cremlae: tunnel works, but a second issue is needed
[14:37] * johanhenselmans_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[14:37] cremlae ericb2: Okay. I'll take a look at your wiki page :)
[14:37] ericb2 paveljanik: can we summarize for aqua status in Barcelona ?
[14:38] paveljanik yes.
[14:38] ericb2 I propose alpha
[14:38] paveljanik alpha if we fix black and dnd?
[14:38] paveljanik PhilippL
[14:38] PhilippL yes, alpha sounds good.
[14:38] ericb2 paveljanik: looks good
[14:38] paveljanik PhilippL: will work on black.
[14:38] paveljanik Who will investigate dnd?
[14:38] PhilippL tino is working on dnd ?
[14:38] paveljanik what we want to have working?
[14:38] ericb2 paveljanik: tino is already working on it
[14:38] paveljanik fine :-)
[14:39] tino ericb2: True
[14:39] ericb2 FYI, I'll have some holidays starting 28th July , until 12th august
[14:40] ericb2 Next point ?
[14:40] ericb2 5. providing AQUA builds - who, how, what
[14:41] paveljanik can I speak? ;-)
[14:42] paveljanik yes :-)
[14:42] paveljanik I'd like to see two kind of builds:
[14:42] paveljanik 1. regular milestone builds without changes and cwses.
[14:42] paveljanik - just to know, that we still build and people can test also other changes.
[14:42] paveljanik the same way we have for X11.
[14:43] paveljanik 2. when we are working on one common big cws, I'd like to see buildbot produced builds, call them developer snapshots
[14:43] paveljanik - people who report issue could be redirected to them to check if the bug they reported is fixed there.
[14:44] paveljanik Of course people (me included, ...) will produce hack builds which can integrate e.g. macaddressbook01, filepicker when they are not integrated, but I'd like to definitely see that we agree on not marking them as produces by macport...
[14:45] paveljanik This cause a lot of issues in the past and I simply do not want to repeat bad QA experience about this.
[14:45] ericb2 paveljanik: I fear 2 is not possible, because of a lack of resources
[14:46] cloph ericb2: I don't think so - you don't have to create a new build for every downloader..
[14:46] paveljanik I think it is possible to have e.g. only en-US.
[14:46] ericb2 paveljanik: only en-US is different, and more easy
[14:46] ericb2 cloph: currently bots are under the water
[14:47] ericb2 cloph: half of the builds are broken
[14:47] ericb2 cloph: and we have not enough bots
[14:47] paveljanik ok, so lets first talk about 1.
[14:47] cloph ericb2: Builds are broken because the buildbot build system is too dumb to apply patches for known build problems.
[14:47] paveljanik 8)
[14:47] cloph Not a problem with the machines themselves...
[14:48] paveljanik but this is another topic ;-)
[14:48] ericb2 paveljanik: I think we could use bots to provide regular builds
[14:48] paveljanik ericb2: also for X11, right?
[14:48] paveljanik I want to have one method for providing X11 and AQUA builds.
[14:48] ericb2 paveljanik: why not. The problem is : does it make sense to provide 62 locales
[14:49] paveljanik And what I really do not want to see is to have SRC680_m224 produced on shaunmcdonald's notebook and m225 on maho's iMac with different system.
[14:49] paveljanik We need stable environment.
[14:49] ericb2 paveljanik: we have not
[14:49] ericb2 paveljanik: Sun is interested too , to provide regular builds
[14:49] paveljanik ericb2: no? I thought we have. Does maho use the machines for something else than building?
[14:50] ericb2 paveljanik: yes
[14:50] paveljanik ericb2: that would be most perfect!
[14:50] cloph Mac OSX + System updates, + XCode + ccache - you don't need more to build OOo...
[14:50] paveljanik I'd like to see RE produced builds!
[14:50] cloph :-)
[14:50] paveljanik that would be Solution!
[14:50] paveljanik ;-)
[14:50] paveljanik cloph: :-))
[14:50] ericb2 paveljanik: we could share : regular builds -> Sun
[14:50] ericb2 paveljanik: fix issues / cws ..etc with bots
[14:50] PhilippL At some point I hope Sun RelEng will provide aqua builds, too. But that is not going to happen within the next month probably.
[14:50] shaunmcdonald ericb2: if we are to use the bots, the bots need to be machines separate machine that are not used for other things like general usage
[14:51] shaunmcdonald that is the number one problem with my mac
[14:51] cloph shaunmcdonald: Why? Because it would slow down your mac too much or because of other reasons?
[14:52] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I think 5 dedicated machines like 2 Mac mini PowerPC + 3 Man minis Intel would be perfect
[14:52] cloph (slowdown can me nimimized by renicing the build)
[14:52] shaunmcdonald cloph: to give the builds a stable environment for building
[14:52] ericb2 cloph: it works correctly
[14:52] shaunmcdonald cloph: it has happened too often now that I've installed something, or done some other change and then the environment has changed
[14:53] cloph shaunmcdonald: OK, if you develop with additional libraries that are not part of XCode or the base Mac system, but otherwise the system is already "stable & defined"
[14:53] * shaunmcdonald thinks svn caused an issue with one of the libraries it installs
[14:54] * ericb2 agrees with cloph: we are not at the begining of OpenOfice.org on Mac OS X anymore
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[14:54] shaunmcdonald cloph: I also think that the old pre-requisets that used to be in ooo that are no longer require are causing issues for my builds sometimes
[14:55] * cloph forgot building of mozilla - for that you would need to install gtk libs - but I guess everybody use precompiled mozilla they created at some point)
[14:56] paveljanik so how to sum up this point?
[14:56] paveljanik I simply trust maho's build.
[14:56] ericb2 paveljanik: I propsoe we complete next meeting
[14:56] shaunmcdonald cloph: the precompiled libs are good now
[14:56] paveljanik I'd like to ask him if he can provide aqua builds as well.
[14:56] ericb2 paveljanik: I think Maho is overloaded
[14:56] paveljanik maybe not all locales like ericb2 said
[14:56] ericb2 with X11 builds
[14:57] ericb2 paveljanik: and I'd like to see new builders joining : why not several ?
[14:57] paveljanik ericb2: because of the principles said above!
[14:57] paveljanik build should be done in one stable environment.
[14:57] paveljanik and we already have one stable environment on maho's machines.
[14:57] ericb2 paveljanik: they are
[14:58] shaunmcdonald maho has said before that he doesn't have the capacity in terms of time to build aqua too
[14:58] paveljanik this is new info to me.
[14:58] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes, and they are other problems hiden, like bandwidth ... etc
[14:58] paveljanik Then what about asking him for remote access to his machines?
[14:58] paveljanik aqua should be buildable remotely...
[14:58] ericb2 paveljanik: that's why I thought to bots
[14:58] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: I'm sure he mentioned it before, due to the time it takes to compile all the langs
[14:59] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: cross-platform lang packs would fix the problem
[14:59] paveljanik so let's postpone the decision to the time when we need alpha builds? ;-)
[14:59] ericb2 paveljanik: and find more infos about , yes
[14:59] paveljanik can we at least agree on the general principles, like:
[14:59] paveljanik Of course people (me included, ...) will produce hack builds which can integrate e.g. macaddressbook01, filepicker when they are not integrated, but I'd like to definitely see that we agree on not marking them as produces by macport...
[14:59] paveljanik ?
[15:00] paveljanik for now and forever starting from now on?
[15:00] ericb2 paveljanik: no problem. I myself always provide hack builds, and they are not official
[15:00] shaunmcdonald Official builds should always come from the same builder
[15:00] shaunmcdonald sky
[15:00] paveljanik ericb2: sorry, but this is not true...
[15:00] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: no, I don't think so
[15:00] paveljanik who produced preview 1 and 2?
[15:00] paveljanik they were hack builds.
[15:00] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: ericb2
[15:01] ericb2 paveljanik: I did, because the iontegration process was not complete
[15:01] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: 2 wasn't
[15:01] paveljanik ericb2: yes. You finally got the point!
[15:01] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: preview 2 was only aquavcl01
[15:01] ericb2 paveljanik: and I continue to think it was a good idea
[15:01] paveljanik ericb2: and also the cwses were not complete at the time!
[15:01] ericb2 paveljanik: we now have a good feedback : we saved one month
[15:01] paveljanik ericb2: sure, because you do not handle issue stream...
[15:02] ericb2 paveljanik: ?
[15:02] * cloph needs to run... back later...
[15:02] paveljanik e.g. seeing that missing native filepicker in preview 2 is a regression was almost death for me ;-)
[15:02] cloph ericb2: the dmg-one... magnified screenshot here: http://sau.frubar.net//19929 - ok, but not perfect (Icon a little to low)
[15:02] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: don't projects often produce incomplete builds from time to time to get feedback on the branch?
[15:02] * cloph is now known as cloph_away
[15:03] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: yes, bet they always produce them from CVS/SVN.
[15:03] paveljanik and do not add several branches together etc.
[15:03] paveljanik the produces such build when all the branches are in one tree.
[15:03] ericb2 cloph_away: this is fixed in macosxdmg23
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[15:03] ChanServ cloph_away cremlae
[15:03] ericb2 cloph_away: waiting for QA
[15:04] shaunmcdonald ericb2: I thought you had created preview 2 with just cvs code?
[15:04] ericb2 cloph_away: if I can, I think we are not enough for QA on Mac OS X
[15:04] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I did
[15:04] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: no change
[15:04] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: vanilla aquavcl01
[15:04] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: who pretends the opposite ?
[15:04] paveljanik yes, build like 2. I said above.
[15:05] paveljanik not integrated -> it should not have been announced as produced by macport!
[15:05] paveljanik aquavcl01 absed build can first be uploaded with m220.
[15:05] paveljanik who will do it? ;-)
[15:05] paveljanik none.
[15:05] paveljanik We had to do that before it was possible!
[15:05] shaunmcdonald ericb2: paveljanik so what you are saying is that official builds should be only those from a master
[15:05] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: of course!
[15:05] ericb2 paveljanik: I disagree
[15:06] paveljanik ericb2: why?
[15:06] paveljanik masters are set into stone.
[15:06] ericb2 paveljanik: what is in child work space is what we have
[15:06] paveljanik cws changes.
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[15:06] paveljanik ericb2: no, because it can change a minute after you check it out.
[15:06] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: so what about the chart2mstX that was produced from the CWS for testing?
[15:06] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: +1
[15:07] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: yes, testing builds. This is OK! The purpose is to test it.
[15:07] ericb2 paveljanik: were testing builds official ?
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[15:07] paveljanik build like 2. I said above. We need them as well, but we should not announce them to general public!
[15:07] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: isn't that the idea of the preview
[15:07] shaunmcdonald i.e. for testing?
[15:07] ericb2 Ok, next point ?
[15:08] ericb2 6. prepare next events : Apple Expo / 3rd Mac porters meeting
[15:08] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: so just quietly release them somewhere?
[15:08] paveljanik can we agree on the abouve principle?
[15:08] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: no. upload it and ask people e.g. in the ml for testing.
[15:08] paveljanik to get qualified feedback
[15:08] paveljanik and not zillions of duplicated issues
[15:08] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: where do we upload them?
[15:08] paveljanik one issue with 10 issues inside etc.
[15:08] ericb2 paveljanik: we need simple user feedback, else we won't release before 3 years
[15:09] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: I can provide the space if we do not have other space available.
[15:09] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: thus they will get released on to the mailing list rather than the web site
[15:09] paveljanik ericb2: yes - e.g. SRC680_m220 is a good candidate for such feedback!
[15:09] shaunmcdonald the mailing list being public
[15:09] ericb2 paveljanik: why not provide it ?
[15:09] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: yes, but no PR etc.
[15:09] ericb2 paveljanik: there was no PR
[15:10] paveljanik ericb2: you can't understand the problem because you do not handle issues...
[15:10] ericb2 paveljanik: marketing never helped
[15:10] shaunmcdonald this will also help us to produce smaller CWSs
[15:10] paveljanik yes.
[15:10] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: aquavcl02 should we a smaller cws
[15:10] shaunmcdonald ericb2: we do our own pr, with a tiny little bit of help from marketing folk
[15:11] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: fix the 5 enumerated points is the objective
[15:11] paveljanik can we please vote on the proposal? Publicly announce (as macport) only master builds?
[15:11] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: PR means released version
[15:11] ericb2 paveljanik: no today
[15:12] ericb2 paveljanik: this is too early, and we need time before to take any decision
[15:12] ericb2 I won't vote today
[15:12] paveljanik I'd vote +1 today and also tomorrow ;-)
[15:12] paveljanik and also yesterday, FWIW ;-)
[15:13] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: I to expand on your vote question: non-master builds can be uploaded and only be announced on the mailing list
[15:13] paveljanik yup, but not from macport. From the builder, whatever...
[15:13] paveljanik but not officially from the port or from OOo project.
[15:14] johanhenselmans Perhaps you can announce non-master builds in the irc header too. There are not many non qa-testers and developers around here.
[15:14] paveljanik I do not have problem with uploading hack-builds. I do so as well!
[15:14] shaunmcdonald johanhenselmans: we can't add any more text to the IRC header
[15:14] paveljanik johanhenselmans: good idea. There are people who want to test, but who can't build themself.
[15:14] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: :)
[15:14] johanhenselmans Oops...
[15:14] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: we can ;-)
[15:14] paveljanik to the topic...
[15:15] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: that's what I mean
[15:15] * paveljanik has changed the topic to: [English] OpenOffice.org Mac porting team channel. Next IRC Meeting:Wednesday 11th July 2007 (*12*:00 UTC) See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings for the agenda. Previous meetings logs are available at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs | http://www.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua | http:// wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2007 | My builds are hre: ftp;/
[15:15] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: if I've added more before, it's bee cut
[15:15] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: client issue
[15:15] ericb2 After noticed paveljanik voted , next point ?
[15:15] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: ah
[15:15] paveljanik other opinions on this?
[15:16] paveljanik PhilippL, tino?
[15:16] paveljanik ismael___?
[15:16] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: ? ;-)
[15:16] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: +1 to paveljanik's proposal, with the ability to announce hack builds on the mailing list
[15:17] PhilippL At some point this will be moot. Development will slow down as we apporach feature completeness and hence the need for early builds will vanish.
[15:17] shaunmcdonald also proposes to have lots of small CWS to make sure that we can have regular builds made available
[15:17] johanhenselmans Please be careful they get not picked up by the likes of versiontracker and macupdate
[15:17] PhilippL I thnik the onl point of contention between you two is what will be called an "official" build.
[15:17] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: yes, that's automatic. To rephrase my proposal "alphas, betas, pre-betas, rc's all from masters"
[15:17] paveljanik PhilippL: yes. Definitely.
[15:18] paveljanik I do not want to limit people doing hack builds!
[15:18] ericb2 johanhenselmans:of course they will
[15:18] paveljanik Do so, but DO NOT announce them as the status we have now...
[15:18] paveljanik do announce them as e.g. Pavel's super gold set mix of OOo's cwses.
[15:18] paveljanik And do update your builds as regularly as you want.
[15:18] PhilippL So as we will continue to have both kind of builds now, why not call the master builds "official" and any other build a "design study" ?
[15:18] paveljanik Do include whatever locale you want/have.
[15:19] ericb2 can we continue ?
[15:19] paveljanik PhilippL: this is why I separated 1. and 2. builds.
[15:19] shaunmcdonald PhilippL: you make a very good point about the definition of official builds
[15:19] ismael___ PhilippL: +1
[15:19] paveljanik but, master==officiial is more clear, yes.
[15:19] paveljanik PhilippL: +1
[15:20] johanhenselmans member:PhilippL: +1
[15:21] paveljanik and lest all work together to no longer need non-official builds and be fast enough to have them on the master next Friday! ;-)
[15:21] paveljanik who will QA macaddressbook01, BTW?
[15:22] * mikesic (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #ooo_macport
[15:22] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to mikesic
[15:22] ericb2 paveljanik: I think Florian Heckl, since he does replace plipli
[15:22] paveljanik ericb2: ok, great. I'll help him.
[15:22] paveljanik so to sum up this point, did we agreed on the point?
[15:23] paveljanik ericb2: do you agree with PhilippL's proposal?
[15:23] ericb2 paveljanik: I don't want to decide today, but take more time
[15:23] paveljanik so 0?
[15:24] paveljanik or should we vote by mail to allow all people say their opinion?
[15:24] paveljanik that would be more fair.
[15:24] paveljanik because not all people are here.
[15:24] ericb2 paveljanik: why not
[15:25] paveljanik ericb2: but definitely, alpha, beta and RCs have to be master builds. Can you at least agree on this?
[15:25] paveljanik or do you want to think more about this as well?
[15:25] ericb2 paveljanik: I already answered you
[15:25] paveljanik sounds like "i can't decide if I'm 30 or 40 today ;-)"
[15:26] paveljanik OK, I know what you mean...
[15:26] paveljanik :-((
[15:26] ek_ paveljanik: +1 for PhilippL's proposal. It was too sudden release for me about develeper preview 1 and 2.
[15:26] paveljanik ek_: 2 was much better! But unfortunately after BAD 1 :-(
[15:26] ericb2 paveljanik: I refuse to decide in a hurry. Nothing else
[15:27] paveljanik ok, next point?
[15:28] ericb2 6. prepare next events : Apple Expo / 3rd Mac porters meeting
[15:28] ericb2 First some words about OOoCon2007
[15:29] ericb2 I have asked to marketing mailing list, to know more about expenses funding
[15:29] ericb2 so far no clear answer
[15:29] paveljanik to be fair, it has to be said that there was no OOoCon where organizers fund attendees...
[15:29] ericb2 paveljanik: to be fair ..
[15:29] paveljanik I personally do not expect this to change for BCN
[15:29] * PhilippL has a booked flight now. And hdu_hh, too.
[15:30] ericb2 paveljanik: I know some people have epxenses funded. Every time
[15:30] shaunmcdonald ericb2: is that not by their respective companies
[15:31] ericb2 and since my contribution for FOSDEM was never funded, I prefer ask before
[15:31] paveljanik I have never heard about this, sorry.
[15:31] paveljanik I was always told this.
[15:32] ericb2 FYI, I have decided to to a call for donations, to help, e.g. mikesic to attend
[15:32] cloph_away ericb2: That screenshot is from macosxdmg23
[15:32] ericb2 and other, if ever this is possible
[15:33] ericb2 I'll ask Cusoon to help us too.
[15:33] * cloph_away is now known as cloph
[15:33] ericb2 Now about Apple Expo
[15:34] ericb2 the date is just after OOoCon2007
[15:34] ericb2 and I'll probably don't stay too much in Barcelona. If ever I attend
[15:34] ericb2 currently, I'm divided
[15:35] * divoe_ (email@example.com) has joined #ooo_macport
[15:35] ericb2 For the record, i have proposed hdu to share my conf time, because he had nothing
[15:35] paveljanik please do not take this personally, but please inform organizers about your final decision, so they can replace you presentation with e.g. hdu_hh's.
[15:35] paveljanik ericb2: yes, good.
[15:35] ericb2 paveljanik: no problem, I'll do
[15:35] ericb2 back to Apple Expo
[15:36] ericb2 this IS the most important event for us
[15:36] paveljanik ericb2: you mean mac porters from French?
[15:36] paveljanik or?
[15:36] * paveljanik never heard about Apple Expo before last year OOoCon.
[15:36] PhilippL ericb2: Is there possibly a stand for OOo ?
[15:36] ericb2 not only french ( shaunmcdonald will confirm ) three( maybe 4) days, we will see Mac users
[15:37] paveljanik ericb2: terrible dream :-)))
[15:37] ericb2 PhilippL: this is quite expensive. I'll do my best this year to obtain one
[15:37] ericb2 paveljanik: you can't imagine :)
[15:37] shaunmcdonald there are many people from the South of England/UK that head over to France for the Apple Expo
[15:37] PhilippL ericb2: If there were one , whou would be there ?
[15:37] ericb2 PhilippL: I'll be present, yes
[15:37] shaunmcdonald which is why most of the people there are able to speak English too
[15:37] PhilippL ericb2: I mean, you cannot do that alone, yes ?
[15:38] ericb2 PhilippL: I have 3 trusted people, and we share the time
[15:38] paveljanik fipa: will you go to Paris?
[15:38] PhilippL ericb2: would be great.
[15:38] ericb2 PhilippL : we are not too much
[15:39] fipa Paris? What to do in Paris? :o)
[15:39] fipa oh, AppleExpo...
[15:39] fipa hmmm it should be interesting
[15:39] shaunmcdonald There will be the UK equivalent of the French apple expo in London, probably in October this year
[15:39] fipa who plans to go there?
[15:39] ericb2 Last point : what about a 3rd Mac porters meeting ( Hamburg, as usual ? ) at the end of the year ?
[15:40] paveljanik I thought we could organize the meeting during OOoCon so more people can attend...
[15:41] paveljanik or at least some hackathon...
[15:41] paveljanik having so many Sun engineers at one place is a chance :-)
[15:41] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: good idea
[15:42] ericb2 paveljanik: big bugfix during OOoCon is a good idea
[15:42] paveljanik visiting HBG is nice idea, but we all will be in BCN...
[15:42] paveljanik or at least many of us.
[15:43] ericb2 paveljanik: I don't think too much Mac porters will attend Barcelona
[15:43] paveljanik some afternoon/long night ;-)
[15:43] paveljanik ericb2: really?
[15:43] ericb2 paveljanik: with shaunmcdonald , we already asked several times
[15:44] paveljanik PhilippL, hdu_hh, me.
[15:44] paveljanik Who else?
[15:44] * divoe has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[15:44] ericb2 PhilippL: do you know if obr , tino and other will attend ?
[15:44] shaunmcdonald I'm happy to attend
[15:44] ismael___ paveljanik: i can't attend
[15:44] PhilippL Actually I don't know about tino and obr.
[15:45] paveljanik thorsten: ?
[15:45] thorsten yes?
[15:45] PhilippL obr won't be there.
[15:45] paveljanik thorsten: will you be at OOoCon?
[15:45] * obr unfortunatly does not attend
[15:45] thorsten ah, yes, I will
[15:45] paveljanik great!
[15:46] tino ericb2: I will not attend the OOo conf :(
[15:46] ericb2 tino: :-/
[15:47] tino ericb2: Its exactly when my wife and my daugther have their birthday (I cannot afford to miss that event ;))
[15:47] * shaunmcdonald has changed the topic to: [English] OpenOffice.org Mac porting team channel. Next IRC Meeting:Wednesday 11th July 2007 (*12*:00 UTC) See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings for the agenda. Previous meetings logs are available at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs | http://www.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua | http:// wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2007
[15:47] paveljanik tino: bring them together with you!
[15:47] <tino> paveljanik: Together with my other two kids? ;)
[15:48] <paveljanik> tino: Yes!
[15:48] <paveljanik> ;-)
[15:48] * tino has 3 kids ;)
[15:48] <tino> paveljanik: And you pay? :)
[15:48] <paveljanik> well, that could be a bit problematic, yes 8)
[15:48] <paveljanik> tino: ;-)
[15:48] * ericb2 remebers he's some beers/cocas to pay
[15:49] <tino> paveljanik: If they would have choosen a slightly different date for the conf I would have attended
[15:51] <paveljanik> ok, so will we organize at least hackathon during OOoCon?
[15:51] <ericb2> paveljanik: good idea
[15:52] <paveljanik> or QAthon or whatever will be needed at that time?
[15:52] <paveljanik> good that we can agree on something fast :-)
[15:52] <paveljanik> who, how, when? ;-)
[15:53] <ericb2> some Cocoa binding workshop could be interesting too
[15:53] <PhilippL> wednesday or tursday
[15:53] <paveljanik> I think we could leverage the room prepared for QA people with connectivity etc. or we could just discuss random things there randomly.
[15:53] <paveljanik> yes.
[15:55] <ericb2> Other points ?
[15:55] <paveljanik> who, how, when?
[15:55] <paveljanik> who will ask organizers about the room?
[15:55] <paveljanik> I volunteer.
[15:56] <paveljanik> AI all: think about stuff you want to be discussed and send ideas to the list :-)
[15:56] * dave_largo (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #ooo_macport
[15:57] <shaunmcdonald> when are mac porters going to arrive in Barcelona?
[15:57] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: don't know yet
[15:57] <paveljanik> I'll arrive on Tue afternoon, but the complete afternoon and evening is already booked.
[15:58] <paveljanik> at least if the ESC and CC will be moved to the afternoon 8)
[15:58] <PhilippL> I'll arrive on wednesday noon and leave on friday morning.
[15:58] <paveljanik> PhilippL: hdu_hh as well?
[15:58] * hdu_hh arrives wednesday
[15:59] * hdu_hh and will stay over the weekend :-)
[15:59] <paveljanik> hdu_hh: :-))
[15:59] <paveljanik> I'm leaving Sat afternoon
[16:02] <shaunmcdonald> I'm looking at arriving Tues 13:55 and leaving Sat 08:10
[16:02] <shaunmcdonald> that is at the airport
[16:03] <ericb2> FYI Apple Expo is 25th-29th September
[16:03] <paveljanik> ok, I have sent the question about the room
[16:06] <paveljanik> ericb2: have you made your mind with the official == master point already?
[16:06] <paveljanik> ok, ok ;-)
[16:06] <ericb2> paveljanik: you're heavy sometimes
[16:06] <ericb2> Next meeting scheduled 18th July / same hour. Ok ?
[16:06] <paveljanik> ericb2: you just don't know how to make fun from the hard life ;-)
[16:06] <PhilippL> ok for me
[16:06] <paveljanik> os
[16:07] <paveljanik> I'd like to propose postponing meetings during ericb2's vacation, because we anyway only talk about points ericb2 adds to the agenda.