Community Council Notes 20081023

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Community Council

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IRC transcript of Community Council meeting 2008-10-23

  • Transcript begins when MHU joins.


  • Pavel Janík
  • Sophie Gautier
  • Cor Nouws
  • André Schnabel
  • Matthias Huetsch
  • Martin Hollmichel
  • Louis Suarez-Potts
mhu Did I miss important stuff ?
Thalion72 mhu: no, we didn't start
louis_to no; we were waiting for you
mhu oh, thanks !
louis_to we can start now...
* mhu thinks, he needs to stay longer than :-)
Thalion72 please, let's start
louis_to open AIs: 
louis_to they are probably trademark, election, making funding processes transpaprent
louis_to what else? I
louis_to am going more from memory than from script
Thalion72 1. Louis: to publish the draft for trademarks2. Matthias and Sophie : to send the AB letter 
louis_to ah, that script
Thalion72 oh.. sorry 1has been done
louis_to yes.
Thalion72 for 2 we just need an update
louis_to and we saw the reply or the letter
louis_to matthias, sophie?
sophi Thalion72: 2. also and I forward Jim answer a few hours ago to all of you
Thalion72 sophi: I meant a more "public" summary ;)
sophi Thalion72: oh yes of course :)
sophi it's short and simple : no more AB 
mhu that would be my question also: shall Jim's response (and thus the letter) be posted to the list (for the archives) ?
louis_to I see no reason why not
Thalion72 mhu: we could ask Jim .. for me sophie's summary is well enough
louis_to well, having the rationale would be nice
* mhu this time will ask someone higher up before posting publicly, but if it's okay for Jim, I'll send it to the alias.
paveljanik there are more infos than "AB does not exist".
paveljanik esp. foundation tabled for 3 years.
paveljanik I had to look up the word table in the dictionary...
Thalion72 tabled for 3 years by the AB members
paveljanik but yes, I have expected it ;-)
paveljanik Thalion72: by someone.
paveljanik it doesn't matter whom if Sun is there :-(
CorNouws Indeed. Letter is a bit vague, but looks as ifJP finds it (foundation) addressed by  improvments mentioned
paveljanik I think that approx. 90% of that reply is useless and contains lot of false information.
paveljanik I think it is worth asking the author if he agree to publish it, because it could be misrepresented.
louis_to I just asked the author
sophi paveljanik: it's not false, it's the point of view of one person
Thalion72 paveljanik: yes, we should ask for approval to publish the letter
paveljanik sophi: yes. POV from someone who got false informations.
paveljanik but yes, we should really not spend our time on AB ;-)
louis_to okay, I asked Jim P. a few minutes ago
Thalion72 paveljanik: I don't think, that it is up to us (as the council) to discuss if the letter is right or wrong. There have been almost all memebers aof the AB on cc .. so they could comment
louis_to adn so we can move on to something else?
Thalion72 louis_to: +1
sophi louis_to: yes
mhu yes
CorNouws +
louis_to trademarks: 
louis_to do we feel that the discussion has reached a point where it can be synthesized and published?
louis_to I would like to send it to Sun legal, after reviewing the comments and edits, for legal review
Thalion72 hmmm .. no, we are not so far (imho)
CorNouws made a start reading befor yesterday, but did not fully finish for that choice
CorNouws so support Thalion72
sophi louis_to: before we should discuss it with the community 
louis_to then let's set a deadline. I'd still like to go over it.
Thalion72 to me, we are close to get an idea what the tm ploicy should look like, but we need more time for it
CorNouws sophi: OK, but imput from Sun legal can also help the discussion, with options
louis_to and send it to lawyers who might have to defend it for their insight
sophi louis_to: and only a part have been discussed
sophi CorNouws: Not sure you know Sun legal delays ;-)
louis_to well, let's certainly have OOoCon as a dadline
louis_to sun legal won't delay here
CorNouws sophi: Ugh :(
CorNouws louis_to: Ah :)
louis_to they see the importance as we all do
Thalion72 louis_to: OOoCon as deadline for what?
* Thalion72 does not really see the importance ;)
louis_to a draft that can be preseented to the community or published for comment generally
Thalion72 louis_to: ok 
* louis_to likes deadlines b/c if followed, they get things doine
louis_to sp/done
louis_to further comment on this topic?
Thalion72 who will work out the draft?
louis_to I can take a try
Thalion72 (a deadline is not worth a penny, if nobody is working to meet it)
louis_to  if I do not do it by Monday, then please someone else
* louis_to agrees with Thalion72
Thalion72 louis_to: ok
sophi louis_to: I can help
louis_to thanks
CorNouws May I ask untill sunday to be able to read and comment?
louis_to sure, we'll be posting to trademark list, anyway
Thalion72 louis_to / sophi: please ask at the tm@council list for help .. Bernahrd is normally good at synthesizing
louis_to I fly back to toronto saturday and was hoping to work on it during the flight
* louis_to is delighted BD is back
sophi Thalion72: we will post on tm@council so he can participate
Thalion72 louis_to: tm is th only issue he comments on atm 
louis_to ah
Thalion72 but this allone is good enough :)
louis_to agreed
louis_to  shall we move on to the third and probably longest point?
Thalion72 yes 
louis_to Agenda CC meeting OOoCon
sophi louis_to: yes
louis_to Cor, others, is there a draft so far?
mhu can we spend a minute on another topic ?
louis_to hm. is it related to 1 or 2?
mhu mmeeks has proposed a replacement / standin for his ESC seat ...
CorNouws by ..
mhu ..and I'd like to ask here whether that is accepted, or how to otherwise answer
Thalion72 mhu: I've seen th email and +1 from my side
mhu Thorsten Behrens, active developer , formerly Sun now Novell
louis_to mhu: is this within the scope of the CC?
louis_to i mean to decide on the acceptability of meeks' proposal
mhu well ESC are appointed; I'd like to be sure, the ESC does nothing without the CC knowing / approving
_Nesshof_ louis_to: we might be able to overule, but ..
louis_to i see
_Nesshof_ why should we, Thorsten is even a more active developer than michael
sophi would it be possible to see his mail anyway?
mhu I don't see an issue with Thorsten, just wanted to let you know.
louis_to mhu: have others on the ESC agreed?
Thalion72 no answer yet
sophi Thalion72: thanks
mhu yes, Martin :-)
paveljanik +1
louis_to and is there any apparatus in the ESC for approving standins, generally?
* _Nesshof_ is just answering 
mhu and pavel
mhu well, I guess it replacement, really.
mhu s/it/it means/
louis_to mhu: does meeks use the term, "replacement?"
louis_to or "stand in"
louis_to one being permanent the other temporary
sophi louis_to: stand in
louis_to for temporary occasions, there ought not to be a prlblem
louis_to for permanent, then that is a different story
louis_to and demands a different response, I'd think, from the ESC members
mhu well, the difference between permanent and temporary is only the length of that "temporary time interval"...
sophi I think he is only speaking of Beijing meeting, no?
louis_to mhu: I'm suggesting you ask meeks for clarification
CorNouws and about less time for OOo
mhu no, I don't care why he does not want to attend
_Nesshof_ I have to correct myself: a regular member of the ESC needs to be confirmed by the CC
louis_to what his intentions vis-à-vis OOo dedication are and if TB is to be a permanent replacement...
louis_to right. so, if TB is to be a regular member, then the ESC can discuss that and present it to us for confirmation per the guidelines
mhu okay, that clarifies it for me.
mhu did not want to spend so much time on it, sorry
Thalion72 and to me this is unnecessary complex
louis_to no problem; thanks for the information
CorNouws Agenda CC for Beijing
louis_to back to agenda
louis_to yes :-)
CorNouws No draft yet
louis_to we can guess at some obvious points:
CorNouws Charter, Trademark,
louis_to * new charter proposals
louis_to trademark
CorNouws (I was faster;)
* louis_to CorNouws types faster
louis_to yes
louis_to sigh
CorNouws agian
louis_to my desk is too high
Thalion72 louis to propose approves for his budgets
louis_to anything else?
louis_to yes.
louis_to 4th item? 
louis_to elections, I'd say
CorNouws apart from what the new charter may bring us
CorNouws attention for furthering leadership in the community
CorNouws to make sure items are picked up better, faster and freeer
Thalion72 maybe create AIs from the face2face meeting
louis_to yes, I was wondering about that
louis_to thanks for the minutes, andre
Thalion72 louis_to: having an EEePC while traveling via train is great ;)
CorNouws Yes, and the f2f meeting is linked to my suggestion, of course
Thalion72 CorNouws: yes
louis_to Thalion72: I'm deeply tempted. my airplane seats were too cramped to work, at one point
louis_to so, can we have then a clear 4th item for discussion? 
louis_to perhaps by OOoCon? 
Thalion72 CorNouws: the only problem I see with this is, that the Council Meeting is at the first day. Normally we will collect the best ideas during OOoCon
louis_to I'd also like to do what we did last year: public engagement
louis_to Thalion72: we can do both
sophi Thalion72: agreed
CorNouws Thalion72: I do not understand you
louis_to we do have some time ion the last day and can use it for a public engagement to discuss issues raised during the conference.
Thalion72 louis_to: ok - wouod be fine for me
mhu fine for me as well
CorNouws ok also
sophi CorNouws: there is a lot f2f meeting that help to raise issues and ideas during OOoCon
CorNouws and those could be usefull when discussing  leadership in the community ?
Thalion72 CorNouws: yes
louis_to proposal: to ask peter junge to allott us 1.5 hours on the last day for a public meeting to discuss issues raised during the conference
louis_to we can see if we can pipe john in vie televideo or conference....
louis_to it worked great with brazil
Thalion72 louis_to: ok .. and I hope we do not neet to wear protective clothing
louis_to ;-)
louis_to yes, that comes to mind... flame proof
CorNouws proposal ok for me, but I like to start discussing the point also at the first cc meeting ..
louis_to yes, we will. the end meeting is more I hope a place where all can raise issues for us to consider and where we can freely discuss them
Thalion72 CorNouws: ok ... can you define the agenda item (in short words?)
CorNouws Thalion72: improving leadership in the community ?
louis_to hm. /me wonders why "leadershp" and not, say, engagement
louis_to so, I'd like to suggest, rather, the latter. 
CorNouws because in my experience that are different things
louis_to and then suggest we work with marketing and education on specific proposals
CorNouws we can ask engagement, and  must organize leadership
louis_to CorNouws: to me, leadership happens. engagmement needs more structural work.
Thalion72 CorNouws / louis_to: yes it seems you are focusing different things
louis_to agreed
louis_to we both want a sustainable community
louis_to and so I'd propose we work with the above groups and also add others so that we can get there
CorNouws of course. And the name of the agenda point is not the most important, probably
louis_to perhaps; it's just that in english, leadership means something pretty strong
Thalion72 can we please put both terms to the agenda
louis_to and open source has that but it's really as much about being able to get things done and to have community
louis_to so, yes, we can...
Thalion72 it think, we should discuss about "leadership" at least to understand what we mean by this
CorNouws you may use coordination, pretty close to what I feel
louis_to Item 4: discuss strategies for improving the conditions for developing contributors to and leaders of OOo
louis_to how is that?
louis_to and then be specific:
louis_to by :
louis_to * asking markeiting to take this as  a focus
louis_to * education as a means of creating new contributors
louis_to * NLC, as well, to reach out on regional level to would-be or established contributors
louis_to is that better?
* louis_to notes the above more or less fits into John and Jacqueline's SMP
Thalion72 the summary is ok .. i would put something else as the specifics
louis_to go ahead...
Thalion72 I'd like to see some points from the Hamburg meeting to be dicussed and worked on
louis_to yes.
louis_to would you want to suggest which?
Thalion72 and these are more structural points that really belong to "leadershp"
louis_to okay
Thalion72 e.g. the addendum to the concil charter (what we as the council think, what we are able to do, what we should do ...)
louis_to ah, yes, that is very important and must be there
louis_to thanks
CorNouws ok, thanks Thalion72. I think that is clear enough to start in Beijing?
louis_to :-)
* louis_to loves CorNouws's dry irony
CorNouws Thanks, but mybe in my culture/habits it isn't ;)
Thalion72 ok .. any more points for the agenda? (current or Beijing?)
louis_to  I have nothing now but would urge members here to add things if they think of them asap
Thalion72 ahh.. elections
CorNouws Is it necessary to prepare some items?
louis_to CorNouws: I do not understand what you mean?
mhu what about the "issues around 3.0" discussion ?
Thalion72 we should at least decide if we would hold elections, with or without a new charter
louis_to the agenda has to be drafted up in a readable form. and we ought to add (must add) elections
CorNouws charter is well prepared, IMO. trademark is being worked on
louis_to Thalion72: I agree. I would strongly urge we hold elections with or without as soon as feasible, and ask that I be helped in setting them up
mhu I would like to add the "issues around 3.0" discussion to the agenda, if we don't resolve that via email until then
CorNouws mhu: agree
louis_to mhu: okay.
CorNouws but not sure yet how to name that item ..
CorNouws apart from leadership ;)
Thalion72 mhu: ok
mhu well, that's not leadership, but "speaking bad of the project that feeds me ..."
sophi CorNouws: that's not only leader ship there's also the site issue
mhu and, yes: the site also
* mhu almost forgot collab
* louis_to wonders if we can discuss the collab issue before beijing or def have it as something with less priority
louis_to I think we need to prioritize, and would suggest that the things we were discusisng, plus elections are priority
mhu I think the site issue is more of daily business, we can do that any time
sophi louis_to: agreed
mhu but I don't want to defer the other part of the "issues around 3.0" discussion
louis_to mhu: feel free to summarize as an agenda item and add it ot wiki
louis_to ot/to
CorNouws mhu: indeed! and addressing that needs some preparation, by mail..
mhu okay
Thalion72 mhu: ok .. but if i get it right, Martin is working on a draft. So we might get this resolved even before OOo Con ... but it'sok with me, if this is at the agenda
mhu if we resolve that early, I am fine.
CorNouws me too, if..
louis_to let's try
* _Nesshof_ will try to send out the draft tomorrow
louis_to I have not participated but will intervene (send in my comments)
louis_to thanks
sophi _Nesshof_: thanks
mhu thanks, Martin
CorNouws _Nesshof_: Thanks!
louis_to any other agenda items or business we should take care of tonight?
mhu not from me
Thalion72 no
sophi louis_to: it's ok for me
CorNouws me to
louis_to if no one objects, then I'd like to call the meeting adjourned
mhu okay
sophi louis_to: ok and thanks
louis_to with AI to put up the Agenda for OOoCon and to do the trademrark
louis_to thanks
_Nesshof_ ok, by
CorNouws bye all
mhu bye all
sophi bye all
louis_to bye all
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