Community Council Minutes 20080710
- Sophie Gautier (sophi)
- Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof1)
- Pavel Janík (paveljanik)
- John McCreesh (jpmcc)
- Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
- André Schnabel (Thalion72)
- Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
- Louis Suarez-Potts
IRC meeting commences 17:34 UTC (timestamp is +0100)
Conversation with #OOoCouncil
(04:34:21 PM) mode (+ns ) by card.freenode.net
(04:34:53 PM) sophi [firstname.lastname@example.org] entered the room.
(04:34:55 PM) sophi: Hi John :)
(04:35:19 PM) jpmcc: Hi Sophi - always a pleasure ;-)
(04:35:31 PM) Thalion72 [n=sca@p3EE299C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] entered the room.
(04:35:41 PM) sophi: jpmcc: thanks, same for me :)
(04:35:42 PM) Thalion72: hi!
(04:35:48 PM) sophi: Thalion72: Hi Andre !
(04:36:04 PM) Thalion72: hmm .. I thought, I'm late ?
(04:36:36 PM) Logging started. Future messages in this conversation will be logged.
(04:36:43 PM) sophi: Thalion72: I was late also, but not the last ;)
(04:37:21 PM) stx12 [n=st@p548E47CA.dip.t-dialin.net] entered the room.
(04:37:22 PM) Thalion72: but meeting time is *now* or is my UTC-conversion wrong?
(04:37:26 PM) stx12: hi
(04:37:37 PM) Thalion72: Hi
(04:37:41 PM) stx12: no, i'm late ;-(
(04:38:02 PM) Thalion72: stx12: the question today is .. who is not late?
(04:38:10 PM) sophi: stx12: Hi
(04:38:42 PM) jpmcc: I was first in the room and I was late :)
(04:38:46 PM) stx12: you were probably on time ;-)
(04:38:47 PM) sophi: Thalion72: the answer is: John who dislike irc
(04:39:01 PM) sophi: ;)
(04:39:01 PM) Thalion72: lol
(04:39:21 PM) jpmcc: John who printed out all the papers and left them on the printer downstairs
(04:41:19 PM) sophi: jpmcc: in French we says "who has no head has legs" ;-)
(04:41:52 PM) Thalion72: same here :)
(04:42:16 PM) Thalion72: so .. but .. what do we do about today's meeting?
(04:42:35 PM) jpmcc: Proposal: in future all CC meetings are timetabled to start at nn:15 then everyone can be 15 mins late ;-)
(04:43:27 PM) Thalion72: jpmcc: this would just cause that most people are 30mins late ;)
(04:44:04 PM) sophi: jpmcc: do you know if one day the why page will be corrected to be viewed by IE6?
(04:45:09 PM) jpmcc: sophi: it broke when all the css changed with the last site update. I have no IE6, and even if I had, I am probably not clever enough to fix it...
(04:45:30 PM) jpmcc: ...I have asked several times for help on dev@website but no-one hs given me a fix.
(04:46:26 PM) sophi: jpmcc: ok, I'll put some pressure on them (I will forward all the mail of webmasters list ;-)
(04:46:56 PM) jpmcc: sophi: tx
(04:46:57 PM) Thalion72: jpmcc: was it ok, if someone would fix the pages offline and send you the files?
(04:47:45 PM) jpmcc: Thalion72: that would be great. However, it is quite hard to fix offline as it's the Collabnet framework that causes all the problems.
(04:48:34 PM) Thalion72: jpmcc: yes - I'd guess so. But I remember, that the problem was discussed at dev@de .. maybe someone could provide a solution
(04:49:14 PM) jpmcc: Thalion72: I'll be delighted if someone can fix it.
(04:49:18 PM) _Nesshof1 [n=_Nesshof@nat/sun/x-dff0242559a4077d] entered the room.
(04:49:30 PM) jpmcc: And then there were 5
(04:49:34 PM) sophi: Thalion72: so will I :)
(04:49:35 PM) _Nesshof1: sorry, I'm late
(04:50:24 PM) Thalion72: _Nesshof1: you just later than others :)
(04:50:40 PM) jpmcc: Hi Martin, we are still only 5 people. I don't know if that equals a quorum or not?
(04:50:46 PM) _Nesshof1: :-/
(04:51:37 PM) Thalion72: jpmcc: it doesn't matter if we reach a quorum or not (you know .. consensus)
(04:52:00 PM) _Nesshof1: jpmcc: I think we already had this discussion last meeting
(04:52:12 PM) jpmcc: 5 out of 9 ... shall we start?
(04:52:18 PM) Thalion72: back at Barcelona we agreed, that a member is considered as absent, if members fail to vote within a deadline
(04:52:36 PM) Thalion72: jpmcc: yes, I'd say so
(04:52:53 PM) sophi: jpmcc: +1
(04:53:35 PM) jpmcc: 1. Minutes of previous meeting for approval - any corrections anyone?
(04:54:12 PM) ***Thalion72 has no corrections
(04:54:29 PM) jpmcc: Moving on then...
(04:54:39 PM) jpmcc: 2. Old Business - elections (elligibility list) and trademark still to be done.
(04:55:49 PM) jpmcc: I think these were both LS-P actions. Has anyone anything to say on this item?
(04:56:30 PM) Thalion72: no (only that I'd be happy, that anything would be done for these two items)
(04:56:32 PM) sophi: same for me
(04:56:58 PM) jpmcc: Carry forward to next meeting in LS-P's absence?
(04:57:02 PM) Thalion72: btw.: who is taking the log and providing minutes? (John?)
(04:57:28 PM) jpmcc: Thalion72: I have a log switched on. Sophi is very good at doing minutes :-)
(04:57:33 PM) Thalion72: jpmcc: yes - with a notice ntah action can and should be taken on list
(04:57:56 PM) jpmcc: Moving on then...
(04:58:03 PM) jpmcc: 3. Community year/growth plan - step 3: draft to the next meeting for vote
(04:58:33 PM) sophi: jpmcc: the dradt is not attached, the link lead to an error
(04:59:41 PM) Thalion72: sophi: seems as this is a problem of CollabNet framework
(04:59:50 PM) Thalion72: I see the draft here: http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1659
(05:00:17 PM) sophi: Thalion72: yes :(
(05:01:36 PM) jpmcc: I will be honest and say I have not looked at this :(
(05:01:56 PM) Thalion72: suggestion: we should publish the draft at the wiki and vote, if we consider the list of items as complete
(05:02:27 PM) Thalion72: voting on mailinglist - deadline Monday (14.07.)
(05:02:38 PM) sophi: Thalion72: +1
(05:02:47 PM) jpmcc: Thalion72: +1
(05:03:20 PM) _Nesshof1: +1
(05:03:20 PM) stx12: it explicitely says it is not complete
(05:03:22 PM) Thalion72: after this we can go on an revine the plan as suggested by Cor (I hope, Cor can drive this)
(05:03:53 PM) stx12: I think what we need is a top X list of items we would like to tackle
(05:04:22 PM) stx12: prioritized
(05:04:23 PM) Thalion72: stx12: the plan has been sent 3 weeks ago .. no ideas have brought in, what should be added or removed
(05:04:36 PM) Thalion72: so .. for me, the list is complete
(05:05:23 PM) stx12: but that might not be the case for john and me. but my point is priorities.
(05:05:24 PM) Thalion72: please remember, that the current proposal ist only a rough item list that needs to be refined (as suggested in the propsal)
(05:06:24 PM) Thalion72: stx12: we vote only on the "list of items" for the moment .. not on priorities
(05:07:39 PM) Thalion72: stx12: but if you think, the draft is not ready for publishing, you are welcome to make suggestions on the mailing list
(05:08:06 PM) stx12: i'm fine with publishing in the wiki; i'm not ready to vote.
(05:09:11 PM) stx12: and assume that is also the case for john ;-)
(05:09:11 PM) Thalion72: so .. atm (here in this session) we vote about
(05:09:11 PM) Thalion72: 1st: publishing the draft at the wiki ...
(05:09:11 PM) Thalion72: (please vote now)
(05:09:18 PM) Thalion72: +1
(05:09:26 PM) mod_ [email@example.com] entered the room.
(05:09:26 PM) _Nesshof1: +1
(05:09:26 PM) sophi: +1
(05:09:57 PM) jpmcc: +1
(05:10:10 PM) mod_ left the room.
(05:10:12 PM) stx12: +1
(05:10:40 PM) jpmcc: Agreed.
(05:10:44 PM) jpmcc: Moving on...
(05:11:05 PM) jpmcc: Ask the AB to define clearly its role in OOo - draft is send and being discussed to certain level.
(05:11:08 PM) Thalion72: ok ... second: set a deadline for voting on approving the item list as final (to start refining and priotitizing items)
(05:11:16 PM) Thalion72: suggested deadline: Monday 14.07.
(05:11:29 PM) sophi: Thalion72: +1
(05:11:46 PM) Thalion72: +1
(05:12:06 PM) jpmcc: Thallion72: +1. When we prioritise we may find not all the actions fit in one year..
(05:12:21 PM) jpmcc: ...but I guess that's ok
(05:13:15 PM) jpmcc: stx12 & _Nesshof1?
(05:13:19 PM) Thalion72: _Nesshof1 / stx12: your vote on setting a deadline?
(05:13:49 PM) _Nesshof1: fine with me
(05:13:50 PM) stx12: i don't get it; why should we place a list in the wiki that we start voting on. the deadline is for sending in new/chaged items, right? and then we start voting.
(05:14:33 PM) Thalion72: stx12: I' try to set a daedline that we can come to an end
(05:15:19 PM) stx12: yes, but for what? the list or the voting about the list?
(05:15:19 PM) Thalion72: as long as we have no consesus (found by voting) we can discuss for ages but get not any further
(05:15:24 PM) Thalion72: stx12: a deadline for voting on the current list
(05:15:40 PM) stx12: ok, here is my -1
(05:15:40 PM) Thalion72: to give others the change to comment
(05:16:03 PM) Thalion72: ok. no deadline will be set - next item
(05:16:27 PM) jpmcc: Ask the AB to define clearly its role in OOo - draft is send and being discussed to certain level. Seems not yet finished
(05:16:59 PM) stx12: please, that's too fast. i'm fine with a short deadline for review of the current list.
(05:17:46 PM) Thalion72: stx12: I'd suggest to pick this up at the mailing list
(05:18:13 PM) Thalion72: my (I'd guess this is true for all of us) time here at IRC is limited)
(05:19:10 PM) stx12: could you agree with a deadline for comments on 14. and the next deadlinbe 20. for the voting
(05:19:10 PM) Thalion72: stx12: yes
(05:19:12 PM) stx12: others?
(05:19:36 PM) sophi: stx12: ok for me
(05:19:50 PM) jpmcc: +1
(05:20:52 PM) stx12: _Nesshof1: ping
(05:21:45 PM) _Nesshof1: +1
(05:21:53 PM) jpmcc: Moving on...
(05:22:10 PM) jpmcc: "Ask the AB to define clearly its role in OOo - draft is send and being discussed to certain level. Seems not yet finished"
(05:22:14 PM) stx12: thanks
(05:22:28 PM) jpmcc: sophi: do you think you have a final version?
(05:23:13 PM) sophi: jpmcc: not sure that every body agreed with it, I'll check and send it again for (the last) review
(05:23:38 PM) jpmcc: sophi: tx
(05:23:43 PM) jpmcc: Moving on...
(05:24:02 PM) jpmcc: "Michael Meeks suggestion for CC charter modifications - setup for mail to discuss@ is made, but due to Louis vacation, not yet finished."
(05:24:12 PM) jpmcc: Sounds like another carry forward?
(05:24:40 PM) sophi: jpmcc: it's in discussion on discuss@list currently
(05:24:40 PM) jpmcc: Moving on...
(05:24:40 PM) Thalion72: jpmcc: no - Mail discussion has been started
(05:25:06 PM) paveljanik [n=Pavel@unaffiliated/paveljanik] entered the room.
(05:25:06 PM) paveljanik: Hi
(05:25:06 PM) Thalion72: hi pavel
(05:25:52 PM) jpmcc: Thallion72: ok, so we aim to finallise discussion on charter by next meeting?
(05:26:48 PM) Thalion72: jpmcc: yes (at least on the concils structure and elections)
(05:27:02 PM) jpmcc: OK, Moving on...
(05:27:06 PM) paveljanik: so we again are not staring the voting?
(05:27:06 PM) paveljanik: :-(
(05:27:27 PM) paveljanik: sorry to jump in in the middle, but:
(05:27:31 PM) paveljanik: the discussion on structure of the council is useless.
(05:27:51 PM) Thalion72: paveljanik: no - we have no draft to vote on - discussion has just (re)started some days ago
(05:27:51 PM) paveljanik: we should discuss why the current council is not effective, delays decisions etc.
(05:28:13 PM) paveljanik: in fact council is the main problem of our problems now.
(05:28:18 PM) paveljanik: we should run rm -rf council and start from scratch
(05:28:48 PM) jpmcc: paveljanik: pls suggest on the mailing list
(05:28:48 PM) Thalion72: paveljanik: I agree - but from my experence discussion about ineffective work of the current council leads to nothing as long as it is done within the current council('s structures)
(05:29:17 PM) _Nesshof1: Thalion72: that correct
(05:29:18 PM) Thalion72: paveljanik: you'd get a +1 from me (rm -rf) but please - on the mailing list
(05:29:24 PM) paveljanik: jpmcc: no as this would lead to ineffective discussion again
(05:29:55 PM) paveljanik: The problem is very clear to me: council doesn't have a secretary
(05:30:00 PM) paveljanik: it was louis before he joined Sun...
(05:30:43 PM) Thalion72: paveljanik: problem is, that "rm -rf" would leave the project without governance until a new charter is in place
(05:30:52 PM) Thalion72: and discussing a complete nw charter would take ages
(05:31:05 PM) jpmcc: BTW we have 30 seconds left for this meeting.
(05:31:08 PM) paveljanik: Thalion72: no. As Sun defines the rules anyway, it would work.
(05:32:04 PM) ***Thalion72 is rather not going to comment on paveljanik :)
(05:32:41 PM) paveljanik: Thalion72: why do we spend seconds of our time discussion AB? ;-)
(05:32:56 PM) paveljanik: there is no AB...
(05:33:00 PM) paveljanik: but people here still want to discuss AB...
(05:33:16 PM) jpmcc: Can we move on? there are a couple of items on the agenda which require a quick vote so we can all go home feeling we hve made some decisions...
(05:33:21 PM) paveljanik: jpmcc: so what is the next point?
(05:33:21 PM) stx12: i would like to have the confirmation of the earlier post that pavel, John, Louis and I form the review comittee for the Community Innovation Program
(05:33:21 PM) Thalion72: jpmcc: I'd suggest to publish the "rm -rf" idea in the minutes (so the it is at leist public .. and maybe picked up by others for further discussion)
(05:33:40 PM) paveljanik: stx12: +1
(05:33:40 PM) Thalion72: jpmcc: please go on
(05:33:58 PM) jpmcc: "approve Martin Hollmichel as budget holder, Thorsten Behrens and Pavel Janik as approvers for developer budget"
(05:34:01 PM) CorNouws [firstname.lastname@example.org] entered the room.
(05:34:05 PM) CorNouws: Evening all
(05:34:11 PM) Thalion72: Hi CorNouws
(05:34:30 PM) jpmcc: CorNouws: you are one hour late. We are voting on "approve Martin Hollmichel as budget holder, Thorsten Behrens and Pavel Janik as approvers for developer budget"
(05:35:02 PM) CorNouws: +1
(05:35:02 PM) paveljanik: +1
(05:35:02 PM) sophi: jpmcc: +1
(05:35:04 PM) stx12: +1 for the budget holder and approvers
(05:35:07 PM) CorNouws: + apologies
(05:35:07 PM) Thalion72: +1
(05:35:27 PM) jpmcc: _Nesshof1 ping
(05:36:09 PM) _Nesshof1: 0
(05:36:36 PM) _Nesshof1: ok, +1
(05:36:40 PM) Thalion72: _Nesshof1: please reconsider - with one 0 we would not reach consesus (following the charter)
(05:36:45 PM) Thalion72: ok :)
(05:36:58 PM) jpmcc: Accepted. Moving on...
(05:37:10 PM) jpmcc: "John: propose approvers for marketing budgets (general MArketing, other Conferences, dedicated Sponsoring for Events/Contests)"
(05:37:31 PM) jpmcc: Proposal: Me, Florian, and Cor
(05:38:05 PM) jpmcc: Please vote now
(05:38:07 PM) Thalion72: Cor is MarCon?
(05:38:40 PM) sophi: Thalion72: yes for NL
(05:38:40 PM) paveljanik: jpmcc: +1
(05:38:41 PM) _Nesshof1: +1
(05:38:44 PM) Thalion72: +1
(05:38:51 PM) CorNouws: +1
(05:38:53 PM) sophi: +1
(05:39:04 PM) jpmcc: +1
(05:39:07 PM) stx12: +1
(05:39:39 PM) jpmcc: Approved. Moving on (just looking for items we need to vote on)...
(05:39:45 PM) ***stx12 feels that it's not the best moment to ask who is owner and who are approvers
(05:39:53 PM) jpmcc: "review and approve OpenOffice.org Community Council Payments Procedure"
(05:40:50 PM) stx12: jpmcc: could you clarify the roles later, thx
(05:41:00 PM) Thalion72: I've taken the most recent document I found and put it to the wiki
(05:41:18 PM) jpmcc: Please vote +1 if you have read and are happy; 0 if you would like until next mtg to review; -1 if you don't like something
(05:41:34 PM) jpmcc: stx12: will do offline
(05:42:02 PM) Thalion72: jpmcc: +1
(05:42:03 PM) jpmcc: +1
(05:42:04 PM) CorNouws: Thalion72: where on the wiki ?
(05:42:18 PM) Thalion72: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Funding_And_Budgets
(05:42:33 PM) Thalion72: CorNouws: on your request :)
(05:42:42 PM) CorNouws: Thalion72: thnx
(05:43:09 PM) paveljanik: 0
(05:43:17 PM) sophi: +1
(05:43:26 PM) jpmcc: Any more votes (I must go in 2 mins)?
(05:43:31 PM) stx12: 0 - there was a comment that the purchase order system is too complicated
(05:43:34 PM) _Nesshof1: +1
(05:44:09 PM) jpmcc: OK, we need more time to discuss on the list. let's aim for agreement by next mtg.
(05:44:22 PM) CorNouws: 0 - sorry missed to read this before
(05:44:22 PM) Thalion72: ok, who can take an AI to collect comments?
(05:44:22 PM) _Nesshof1: stx12: we may need to introduce form for this
(05:44:47 PM) jpmcc: Thalion72: me
(05:44:50 PM) sophi: Thalion72: I take it
(05:45:06 PM) jpmcc: sophi: I defer to you. Tx
(05:45:10 PM) sophi: jpmcc: ok for you :)
(05:45:20 PM) jpmcc: Movi9ng on...
(05:45:49 PM) jpmcc: " Update on OOoCon (John)" - supplied via email
(05:45:49 PM) stx12: i would like to have the confirmation of the earlier post that pavel, John, Louis and I form the review comittee for the Community Innovation Program
(05:46:20 PM) jpmcc: stx12: OK, everyone, please vote now
(05:46:26 PM) jpmcc: +1
(05:46:38 PM) sophi: +1
(05:46:54 PM) Thalion72: +1 (for the review committee)
(05:46:54 PM) CorNouws: +1
(05:46:54 PM) _Nesshof1: +1
(05:46:54 PM) stx12: +1
(05:47:15 PM) khirano [email@example.com] entered the room.
(05:47:18 PM) jpmcc: paveljanik ping
(05:47:41 PM) jpmcc: khirano: meeting is finisihing in 30 seconds:-(
(05:48:34 PM) Thalion72: hmm .. seems, pavel is away
(05:48:34 PM) stx12: we saw already pavels vote on this; you'll find it in the log
(05:48:46 PM) jpmcc: stx12: OK Tx
(05:48:50 PM) Thalion72: stx12: ah -yes, you are correct
(05:49:28 PM) jpmcc: OK, thank you everyone. I will post the log later tonight. Goodbye!
(05:49:45 PM) stx12: thx and bye
(05:49:49 PM) sophi: jpmcc: thanks