Community Council Log 20100318

General

Date: 2010-03-18

Time: 19:30 UTC (incl. warming up)

Location: IRC

Attendees

• Christoph Noack (christoph_n)
• Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
• John McCreesh (jpmcc)
• Leif Lodahl (leiflodahl), deputy of Charles-H Schulz
• Louis Suárez-Potts (louis_to)
• Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
• Matthias Huetsch (mhu, mhu2)
• Pavel Janík (paveljanik)
• Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

Log

(20:41:10) CorNouws: The agenda for those who did not yet see it: <a href="http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Agenda#Agenda_items_for_the_next_meeting">http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Agenda#Agenda_items_for_the_next_meeting</a>
(20:41:46) CorNouws: We have no minutes from the previous meeting
(20:42:00) CorNouws: Any remarks with the log?
(20:42:10) louis_to: ach. I failed to submit those
(20:42:20) louis_to: you mean, any objections?
(20:42:43) CorNouws: yes, for axample
(20:43:14) louis_to: not from me
(20:43:31) CorNouws: thanks, no one ... then letst start with #1, elections
(20:43:38) louis_to: but I would like to add some things to our agenda for later
(20:43:47) CorNouws: Ah good.
(20:44:05) louis_to: and as we are all agreed offlist, the nomination period is closed?
(20:44:07) CorNouws: Pls not the last column in the agenda holds update / proposal (often)
(20:44:09) louis_to: I mean, are we agreed?
(20:44:23) CorNouws: not = note
(20:44:39) louis_to: okay
(20:45:02) CorNouws: louis_to: we did not agree on extending, so the nomination peroid is closed yes.
(20:45:05) louis_to: we have nominations, these need to be collated, adn then we go on
(20:45:28) CorNouws: Anything special we must discuss here now?
(20:45:32) CorNouws: if not ...
(20:45:42) louis_to: not related to elections. Stefan? others?
(20:45:53) CorNouws: #2
(20:46:15) CorNouws: I saw No new proposal yet, so propose > next meeting.
(20:46:21) mhu: elections: do we have the 1 week intro period ?
(20:46:24) CorNouws: Is that OK for you, Louis?
(20:46:32) louis_to: yes.
(20:46:36) mhu: okay
(20:46:50) louis_to: after sending of the noitce to the lists. same as old notice, modulo changes imposed by differences
(20:47:13) stx12: it's just not clear to me who initiates the next introduction period; but that's for louis and christoph to agreed upon
(20:47:27) christoph_n: Louis, I'll do that. Okay?
(20:47:32) louis_to: that's fine, but what do you mean, "introduction period"?
(20:47:41) louis_to: christoph_n: do what, precisely?
(20:47:53) christoph_n: To ask for the introduction of the nominees.
(20:48:11) louis_to: go ahead, thanks but I should probably close the nomination period
(20:48:16) louis_to: today
(20:48:41) CorNouws: (Elections: I think we can follow the normal procedure.)
(20:48:48) christoph_n: Isn't it already closed? You sent a date in your first mail ... but let's continue on list, okay?
(20:48:58) louis_to: yes.
(20:49:28) CorNouws: louis_to: #2 to next meeting. OK?
(20:49:58) louis_to: yes
(20:50:14) CorNouws: Thanks.
(20:50:14) CorNouws: #3 Martin was to prepare a new proposal.
(20:50:15) _Nesshof_: that's a bit more complicated than I thought, based on my experiences yesterday in another council, I would like to rework my initial proposal
(20:50:32) _Nesshof_: so i need to ask for some more time
(20:50:40) christoph_n: Just a question: Why "CC meetings"?
(20:50:44) christoph_n: Will this be a standard slot?
(20:50:53) CorNouws: _Nesshof_: no probs for me.
(20:51:00) CorNouws: christoph_n: yes, that is the idea
(20:51:07) christoph_n: Okay, I'm fine with it.
(20:51:07) mhu: that was the idea: make it a standard slot
(20:51:17) CorNouws: _Nesshof_: how much time do you expect to be needed?
(20:51:27) _Nesshof_: CorNouws: a few days
(20:51:35) _Nesshof_: next meeting
(20:51:49) CorNouws: OK, then we can prepare to use it for the next meeting ..
(20:51:54) _Nesshof_: christoph_n: what other meeting do you have in mind ?
(20:52:39) christoph_n: _Nesshof_: The wiki states "CC meetings" - I originally thought that this will be announced for one meeting only. Maybe I didn't get it right, sorry.
(20:53:03) _Nesshof_: christoph_n: no as mhu said, it should be a standard slot
(20:53:04) louis_to: my understanding was one meeting oinly, too
(20:53:12) louis_to: but standard ... sure
(20:53:20) louis_to: tho I'd rather not have it every meeting...
(20:53:27) _Nesshof_: I think my proposal will make it more clear
(20:53:45) CorNouws: OK, we wait for the proposal then. Thanks.
(20:53:50) christoph_n: Yes. Maybe the number of questions/people will be quite limited. Like the Renaissance chat...
(20:53:54) _Nesshof_: louis_to: once a month also would be ok, but it should be on regular basis
(20:54:17) louis_to: agreed.
(20:54:25) CorNouws: #4 then
(20:54:41) CorNouws: Work with Clayton on estimates for Developing developers documentation
(20:54:52) CorNouws: New proposal has been sent to the list;
(20:54:52) CorNouws: Propose: further discussion on the list + Decision on list or next meeting
(20:55:21) louis_to: yes, I like juergen's post, and wonder if we have comments?
(20:55:28) christoph_n: We do have :-)
(20:55:37) CorNouws: Has anyone missed the new proposal?
(20:56:23) CorNouws: I have some ... can all post comments (or + / - 1) on the list?
(20:56:36) louis_to: yes. thanks for the reminder
(20:56:56) ***mhu will send his +1 to the list
(20:57:38) mhu: what is still open, though, is which budget shall we use to fund the bounties ?
(20:58:00) CorNouws: Development, is suppose..
(20:58:16) mhu: ...and do we need to upgrade that budget ?
(20:58:37) mhu: ... and downgrade another one ?
(20:58:39) CorNouws: (For the others: the new propsosal includes bounties for the docuemtation, rather than one contract.)
(20:59:34) CorNouws: do you expect that it is needed?
(20:59:54) mhu: the upgrade, or the downgrade ?
(21:00:28) mhu: I do expect we need to upgrade the dev budget, remember the initial 40K USD ?
(21:00:45) CorNouws: I just see that there is 20.000 for dev-budget, so an upgrade will be needed anyway
(21:01:00) mhu: that's what I wanted to say :-)
(21:01:20) CorNouws: mhu: are you willing to prepare a proposal (together with ...)?
(21:02:03) mhu: hmm, since a couple of meetings I was asking also for a proposal, how this should be funded ...
(21:02:03) _Nesshof_: CorNouws: stx and nesshof
(21:02:40) mhu: ...but yes, TeamOOo may be able to give an answer to that question (of upgrading)
(21:03:13) _Nesshof_: mhu: yes
(21:03:33) ***mhu accepts an AI to get the money :-)
(21:03:43) ***_Nesshof_ is expecting that we're exceeding our regualr planned budget
(21:04:04) mhu: at least the dev budget, yes
(21:04:12) CorNouws: A proposal would be great. If you three do not get ready with it, we will help you :-)
(21:04:23) mhu: :-)
(21:04:28) ***CorNouws might be the first year that the whole budget is really used
(21:04:32) stx12: one of the problems would be to have a consistent style throughout the different pieces; would clayton act as supervisor and take care of that?
(21:04:53) CorNouws: stx12: ask him..
(21:05:09) CorNouws: (IOW: good one for the list)
(21:05:27) ***stx12 thought that this might have come up during the talk between _Nesshof_ and ccornell
(21:06:06) _Nesshof_: we need to clarify this, yes
(21:06:19) ***CorNouws would have expected that alle important issues discussed are in the mail and did not read about it...
(21:06:20) _Nesshof_: but clayton would be my choice for this
(21:06:51) CorNouws: OK, thanks.
(21:07:20) ***mhu needs to switch network interfaces, maybe offline for a moment, but will be right back soon ...
(21:07:47) CorNouws: #5 ... Google GSoC / OpenOffice.org Internship
(21:07:57) louis_to: I can give a summary of that
(21:08:09) louis_to: we contacted the relevant persons. no repluy
(21:08:11) CorNouws: (costs money, so have to wait for mhu ;-)
(21:08:14) louis_to: reply that is
(21:08:22) louis_to: so, to internship and mhu
(21:08:38) mhu2 [~mhu@p4FE53F7B.dip.t-dialin.net] hat den Raum betreten.
(21:08:41) louis_to: however, I think it's a lot more promising than gsoc riight now
(21:08:52) ***mhu2 is back again ... sorry
(21:09:07) CorNouws: mhu2: welcome. we are still here
(21:09:17) CorNouws: thanks, Louis
(21:09:49) louis_to: mhu: no reply from gsoc, so we go to internships
(21:09:53) CorNouws: as we discussed before: since GSOC is no option, we drive an internship for OOo specially
(21:10:11) mhu2: okay, just go ahead
(21:10:12) CorNouws: My proposal is on the agenda.
(21:10:14) CorNouws: OK?
(21:10:26) CorNouws: ( Proposal: 4 more days left for comments; + Send out a request for voting in the CC on our internship next monday. )
(21:11:15) CorNouws: I see some more challenges for mhu et all ;-)
(21:11:36) CorNouws: some time agoo we thought about 6 to 8 mentees > 24-32K
(21:11:40) mhu hat den Raum verlassen (quit: Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
(21:11:59) CorNouws: (mhu2 will do too)
(21:12:03) stx12: yes, i would have some more suggestions for improvement; but without the capacity to help...
(21:12:19) CorNouws: what kind of improvements?
(21:12:44) stx12: the form how students apply; the ruleset; ...
(21:13:04) stx12: let me try to use the remaining 4 days ;-)
(21:13:08) CorNouws: you think it is to strickt now, or too loosy?
(21:13:17) louis_to: stx12: i propose we use a version of the community innovation program of last year
(21:14:02) CorNouws: louis_to: I had a look at it when preparing the rules as they are now. Was pretty different stuf, IMO
(21:14:09) stx12: louis_to: the cip<had the drawback that there was no 1:1 relation between the participants and a project mentor
(21:14:13) louis_to: "version" not identical
(21:14:22) louis_to: but we ended up with mentors and mentees
(21:14:44) louis_to: it was also hideoiusly bureucratic
(21:14:57) CorNouws: But pls all: have a critical look at the current wiki, with in mind comments from Louis and Stefan, and give your own comments...
(21:14:58) louis_to: but it had some elements that are useful
(21:15:06) louis_to: thx
(21:15:42) christoph_n: This one, I assume: <a href="http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Internship">http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Internship</a>
(21:15:45) CorNouws: 4 days ... we might make 8, but that will more likely cuase us to be more laizy then to produce better comments ...
(21:16:32) CorNouws: christoph_n: yes, that one. thnxs
(21:17:18) CorNouws: 4 days OK, does Crhistoph need to ping any one else on Sunday, apart from Stefan?
(21:17:45) louis_to: me, please
(21:17:59) ***stx12 ;-)
(21:18:11) christoph_n: Ping! Ping! :-)
(21:18:35) stx12: christoph_n: wait for sunday night
(21:19:05) christoph_n: For the "full moon"?
(21:19:23) stx12: for the best time to ping people about the internship
(21:19:43) ***mhu2 thinks he does not know what "remaining 4 days" actually means
(21:20:24) CorNouws: one more thing: I've send congratulations to the members of the Supervisor Team. mba however is still on vacantion / not present. So we might be in need for someone else.
(21:20:24) stx12: fri, sat, sun, mon
(21:21:06) mhu2: what ends after that 4 days ?
(21:21:44) CorNouws: the time that we prepare the thing, say our + 1, and start with launching
(21:21:50) stx12: the discussion period; then you can say go ahead or be silent
(21:22:06) mhu2: what discussion period ?
(21:22:13) mhu2: whta thing ?
(21:22:23) mhu2: s/whta/what/
(21:22:37) stx12: about the internship as described here: <a href="http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Internship">http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Internship</a>
(21:22:47) CorNouws: s/thing/internship programme to help students develop OpenOffice.org
(21:23:08) louis_to: and I'd think, also, odf
(21:24:17) mhu2: hmmm, have I been involved (and forgot) that we want to pay 4K eur for each project ?
(21:24:37) CorNouws: mhu2: I think so yes, Let's scan all the logs ;-)
(21:24:43) mhu2: sorry that I need to ask all those questions ...
(21:25:02) CorNouws: mhu2: OK, sorry that maybe I was too fast
(21:25:17) mhu2: ...I am simply not aware that this discussion has already finished.
(21:25:53) mhu2: ...and I am actually subscribed to the <a href="mailto:contest@marketing">contest@marketing</a> list
(21:25:54) louis_to: :-)
(21:25:55) CorNouws: Yes: short it was: if GSOC is not accapting us, we will do our 'thing'
(21:26:43) mhu2: fine, but do you have a budget ?
(21:26:46) CorNouws: hmm, maybe you are right and should we involve that list too. thnxs
(21:27:30) CorNouws: mhu2: no, but 4 days, and a proposal which started a year ago, at the least ...
(21:27:45) stx12: and what if we have to set priorities for the doc bounties and internship?
(21:27:47) louis_to: for internships? many years
(21:28:07) louis_to: stx12: you mean, what if we have lnot enough funds?
(21:28:18) stx12: louis_to: correct
(21:28:19) CorNouws: stx12: do you think we can prepare a sound proposal here and now?
(21:28:25) mhu2: yes we made plans, but no decision so far, or am I wrong?
(21:28:30) louis_to: iI would think doc takes priority as that leads to better internship
(21:29:15) CorNouws: I propose that some people discuss this via mail first and then come up with remarks / a proposal
(21:29:21) stx12: CorNouws: no, that's not what i'm trying to achieve; just a rough feeling
(21:29:22) louis_to: +1
(21:29:56) louis_to: well, "rough feeling" from me: Documentation first; it leads to other things
(21:29:56) CorNouws: May I join stx12, _Nesshof_ and mhu2 in the preparations?
(21:30:25) _Nesshof_: CorNouws: yes
(21:30:29) mhu2: sure
(21:30:55) CorNouws: OK, then we have enough to think about and to continue with ...#6
(21:31:37) CorNouws: Nothing new, so Proposal: > next meeting.
(21:32:12) CorNouws: remarks?
(21:32:24) louis_to: let's continue discussions as we have
(21:32:30) CorNouws: if not, then #7
(21:33:01) CorNouws: leiflodahl: did Charles say anyting special about this to you?
(21:33:03) louis_to: leiflodahl, do you have an update? afaict, it's going well
(21:33:21) louis_to: and the Irish gaelic and also now Danishka have been engaged, the latter not quite yet
(21:33:33) leiflodahl: Charles didn't
(21:34:06) leiflodahl: I only saw his interview with the Irish
(21:34:15) louis_to: right, but nothing about "of the month"
(21:34:18) louis_to: ... yet
(21:34:41) leiflodahl: No, but I guess this was the first of them - but not sure
(21:34:54) CorNouws: We'll see more indeed, I expect.
(21:35:01) CorNouws: thanks,
(21:35:19) leiflodahl: I'll ask Charles to answer on the list
(21:35:47) CorNouws: yes pls do.
(21:35:58) CorNouws: #8, New template for CC meetings
(21:35:58) CorNouws: christoph_n ...
(21:35:59) leiflodahl: ;-)
(21:36:07) christoph_n: Yep.
(21:36:34) christoph_n: I asked several times for comments. John agreed in the wiki. how to proceed? Simply use it, since the current agenda is already there?
(21:36:52) louis_to: +1
(21:36:54) CorNouws: ok for me... others?
(21:36:55) mhu2: +1
(21:37:04) _Nesshof_: +1
(21:37:36) leiflodahl: I can't answer for Charles - sorry
(21:37:36) christoph_n: +1 :-)
(21:38:03) louis_to: christoph_n: the format is very good and I like it
(21:38:06) CorNouws: then thanks a lot for the preparations christoph_n, I hope we will use it a lot!
(21:38:20) christoph_n: So wait for Charles? Or just use it?
(21:38:20) louis_to: I would just rather have the number come bfore the date, as I read left to right or all at once
(21:38:27) louis_to: let's just use it, please
(21:38:39) christoph_n: Proposal...
(21:38:47) louis_to: it's very good, makes doing additions easy
(21:38:54) CorNouws: Yes, if Charles has any suggestions, he will let is know
(21:39:01) CorNouws: christoph_n: yes pls ..
(21:39:13) louis_to: not everything demands a full vote, no?
(21:39:39) christoph_n: ... I'll do the minutes today and clean up it a bit. The next days, I will move the content of the "Improvements" wiki page to a more official one. Then it's finished.
(21:39:52) louis_to: thanks!
(21:39:56) CorNouws: great.
(21:40:01) leiflodahl: I'll ask Charles to respond quicly
(21:40:01) louis_to: again, it's a real improvement!!
(21:40:02) christoph_n: Until then, Charles may add comments/wishes.
(21:40:16) christoph_n: Louis, it is not only the format. We have to do it in advance ;-)
(21:40:33) louis_to: yes, I know
(21:40:41) christoph_n: Next item, Cor?
(21:40:52) CorNouws: Yes, pls
(21:41:01) CorNouws: # 9 Refresh Budget Pages on the Wiki with input from Matthias
(21:41:18) CorNouws: mhu2: I thought is was done. Is that correct?
(21:41:18) mhu2: that was done last meeting already
(21:41:28) mhu2: :-)
(21:41:34) CorNouws: OK, then it is finished
(21:41:35) CorNouws: :-)
(21:41:45) CorNouws: # 10 Confirm/discuss proposed dates for future council meetings
(21:41:53) CorNouws: Proposal: handle on list.
(21:41:58) christoph_n: I though it was finished, too.
(21:42:10) christoph_n: We always had three meetings with the new dates :-)
(21:42:27) ***CorNouws I have been sleeping a lot probably ;-)
(21:43:07) mhu2: I also think, thats done
(21:43:08) CorNouws: didn't I see some dates with 'proposed' next to it??
(21:43:24) christoph_n: Yes, these are the dates after the two months "testing".
(21:43:39) christoph_n: We agreed on having two months (or three?) with a different schedule.
(21:43:52) christoph_n: For the others: <a href="http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Calendar">http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Calendar</a>
(21:44:23) CorNouws: OK then finished for now, and to put on the agenda half April, to make dates fixed.
(21:44:44) christoph_n: Yep, at least on the meeting 2010-04-29 we will see that...
(21:45:05) CorNouws: thanks. #11
(21:45:11) CorNouws: Trademark , stefan?
(21:45:17) stx12: there is nothing really worth mentioning here and
(21:45:30) stx12: i don't want to bore us here...
(21:45:42) stx12: i'm happy to come back to you and the trademark group
(21:46:05) stx12: as soon as there is something essential to say - with an AI on the agenda and
(21:46:14) stx12: even without...
(21:46:39) christoph_n: For the minutes... remove it, mark it "closed"?
(21:46:46) CorNouws: are you surprised if I say that I might get a bit concerned by the speed (or actually lack of it)?
(21:46:46) CorNouws: not to say it is your fault, but ..
(21:47:12) louis_to: stx12: what do we expect to happen regarding trademark?
(21:47:28) louis_to: i mean, what is it that is the obstacle, here?
(21:47:37) CorNouws: christoph_n: we do have a list 'not to forget' don't we?
(21:47:37) stx12: we expect a revised policy
(21:48:02) christoph_n: You mean the list which keeps growing and growing. Not at the moment...
(21:48:05) stx12: i don't think we will forget this item
(21:48:15) CorNouws: stx12: :-D
(21:49:08) CorNouws: ok then ... close to finished
(21:49:08) CorNouws: but Louis wanted to add some tipocs...
(21:49:08) CorNouws: can you pls give them , Louis?
(21:50:11) louis_to: yes but will update via list
(21:50:34) louis_to: nothing pressing for now
(21:50:39) CorNouws: OK, then we can close the meeting now, ...
(21:50:43) CorNouws: ok for all?
(21:50:49) louis_to: fine with me
(21:50:53) stx12: good night
(21:51:03) christoph_n: Bye bye! Thanks Cor and all the others!
(21:51:06) louis_to: thanks, CorNouws!!
(21:51:12) mhu2: okay, have a nice evening / afternoon
(21:51:20) _Nesshof_: .
(21:51:23) leiflodahl: Bye
(21:51:23) louis_to: yes, this was great, and thanks cor and christoph_n for the work
(21:51:34) mhu2: +1
(21:51:56) CorNouws: thanks all for joining etc etc - see you soon anywhere ..