Community Council Log 20090709

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IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-07-09


  • Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
  • Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
  • Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
  • Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
  • John McCreesh (jpmcc)
  • Louis Suarez-Potts (oulipo_to)


  • Sophie Gautier
  • André Schnabel
  • Martin Hollmichel

oulipo_to begin, that is
oulipo_to Stefan, can you locate the previous meeting minutes and AIs?
oulipo_to in the meanwhile....
oulipo_to using this link,
* paveljanik is semi-here. Please do not ping me via private messages
oulipo_to thanks
stx12 you mean this? 
oulipo_to yes
CorNouws paveljanik: what does "semi-here" mean?
oulipo_to thanks
oulipo_to do we approve of previous session's minutes?
oulipo_to please indicate with +1/-1
oulipo_to eg, +1
oulipo_to (though I was absent then)
oulipo_to assuming that unanimous silence = +1..
CorNouws +1
oulipo_to let's move on to #2, Action items from previous meeting
stx12 btw the wiki is back
oulipo_to whoope
oulipo_to 2.1: Budget: Louis to use marcons list for events
oulipo_to (am using capitals to make it easier to find)
oulipo_to 2.2: Stefan to discuss the trademark issue with Debian adn give feedback
oulipo_to Stefan?
stx12 a call is scheduled for tomorrow with debian representatives, bernhard and sun legal.
oulipo_to stx12: can you include me in that call, please?
stx12 oulipo_to: sure, see your inbox
oulipo_to thanks
oulipo_to report then for list and for updates in next meeting
oulipo_to Let's move on to 2.2: review of trademakr policy by list (?) start discussion on list
oulipo_to is that accurate for 2.2?
oulipo_to it seems incomplete to me
CorNouws I read "then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@"
stx12 aehm; this reads to me as "then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@ "
oulipo_to of the debian call? or of trademark generally?
oulipo_to that's my question
CorNouws General
oulipo_to okay, so after debian call and report we discuss trademark policy on the list
oulipo_to STATUS: IN PROGRESS, then
oulipo_to shall we move to 3.0?
oulipo_to 3.1; halion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
oulipo_to 3.2 is update
oulipo_to I have not heard (I believe) from Thalion on this
oulipo_to is he on holiday?
mhu I have not heard of Andre, and missed to ping him
oulipo_to Let's ping him now?
CorNouws  hmmm obviously it has not been done
oulipo_to ;just sent ping
oulipo_to moving on to 4.0
oulipo_to Internship
oulipo_to 4.1 Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
oulipo_to Cor, et al., update?
CorNouws No time found for that by me and Florian
CorNouws so hope to be able to do it soon
CorNouws therefore no update ATM
oulipo_to CorNouws; I can add some things / items to that related to education efforts
oulipo_to where is the discussion taking place between you and Florian?
oulipo_to I need to report on this regarding Seneca, China, and other areas where it intersects with mentoring/internships
oulipo_to ah.
oulipo_to thanks
mhu okay, I just sent private email to Andre.
oulipo_to mhu: thanks
oulipo_to STATUS 4.2: IN PROGRESS
oulipo_to moving on to 5....
oulipo_to 5.1: L10n infrastructure
oulipo_to 	1.	André: continue on , and discuss with Florian
oulipo_to 5.2: (See remarks in the log from cloph)
CorNouws Sorry, I've been both away and far toooo busy before, to contact André about the status
oulipo_to the status of this is unclear to me
oulipo_to Cor: that's okay; your workload is awesome and your business takes precedence, I should hope
oulipo_to but do we have an update on the general policy and logistics of this request?
oulipo_to perhaps from stefan?
CorNouws no, the ball is at André's feet
oulipo_to what does Andre have to do?
stx12 there is no status change; there is an idea on the table how we handle the large amount of data for localized builds and andre was going to discuss it with florian, joost, ...
CorNouws and André wanted to continue that process
oulipo_to I see. Is there an urgency here?
CorNouws André  probably will not mind if someone else does 
CorNouws he is quite busy with QA-discussions
oulipo_to I mean, this issue to me is not new; we've had to confront it numerous times, I thought
oulipo_to can we perhaps simply then proceed with Florian, if he has time and also others involved, such as Joost and Stefan?
stx12 and we will be faced with it if/when a 2.4.3rc should ever be prepared...
CorNouws oulipo_to: I suggest to ask André
oulipo_to Yes.
oulipo_to CorNouws: will do
oulipo_to doine
oulipo_to done, I mean
oulipo_to moving on to 6.
oulipo_to Certification
oulipo_to 	1.	all: continue discussion via mail wthin next day's
oulipo_to 	2.	goal is to come to decission asap
oulipo_to who can do #3: update?
oulipo_to Cor?
CorNouws This morning I've send out the mail on the CC list, and ...
CorNouws I've seen and moderated, but not yet read, a long response from Evan on the questions and remarks we discussed with the council members before
CorNouws So that runs, IMO
oulipo_to yes, same here
oulipo_to evan has a great gift for language :-(
* oulipo_to which lsp shares, alas
* mhu thinks Evan's response reads good
oulipo_to mhu: it does. he's a wonderful writer an clearly enjoys writing
oulipo_to alas
CorNouws So I expect replies / remarks / questions from CC members the next days 
jpmcc By chance, I received a letter from a company in Italy who are interested in offering OOo certification...
mhu I meant not only language, but also content :-)
oulipo_to jpmcc: and I in China
* stx12 would prefer concise facts
oulipo_to stx12: we all would :-)
jpmcc ...I ran the idea of OOo certification past them in case they were inetrested in being a founding partner...
* oulipo_to is big infractor as he always sends his boss long letters that must tax his patience
oulipo_to jpmcc: and?
* oulipo_to did same...
jpmcc ...they are very interested, but would like to split the cake differently...
oulipo_to hm. j
jpmcc ...Mauizio's English is not wonderful, but we would want OOo to set the syllabus and the exams and contract out the rest to local / national organisations...
oulipo_to I suspect that's true of many
oulipo_to jpmcc: I think we'd need more information of a precise nature
oulipo_to as all of this must be ordained by contract of a legal nature
jpmcc ...his company being one. He says they have over 500 accredited training centres and systems to support them.
oulipo_to hm.
oulipo_to I suggest we discuss this on the relevant list or with relevant parties. Query: is it relevant to approval or disapproval of the basic idea?
jpmcc I can forward you all his email - it's in html, so I dont't think I can do it via the list.
oulipo_to ie, a CC-authorized org. that certifies companies?
oulipo_to jpmcc: thanks
jpmcc oulipo_to:  +1 to the general principle
oulipo_to i think in discussions we should clarify precisely the boundaries of the CC and organization regarding such certification, eg., would the cc dive into content or relegate itself as previously decided to guidelines?
oulipo_to but that is in the "details" bucket
oulipo_to yet very important
oulipo_to I suggest we move on to 7.0
CorNouws at the moment I see no problems, why the CC could handle with more parties
CorNouws as long as the certification work they do, is clear and good
oulipo_to and hold cert. discussions on the relevant list
jpmcc After reading Maurizio's email, I wonder if a 'one size fits all' would work worldwide. The main thing is to get keen partners.
oulipo_to CorNouws: but it matters how much work we can sustain and how much flexiblity we allow
CorNouws so the ideas we discuss with Alexandro and Evan
CorNouws are important for all later enquries, I would guess
oulipo_to jpmcc: indeed; and that is also one reason I prefer guidelines, at least at this moement
oulipo_to CorNouws: yes
CorNouws so if some want us a lot of work to do, it might be that we cannot endorse them
oulipo_to my desire is to ensure wide flexibility and local agility
jpmcc oulipo_to: I'd be in favour of 'light touch' governance, and leave our certification team free to experiment, make mistakes, etc.
oulipo_to jpmcc: agreed
CorNouws whereas when others do muchg themselves, it is easier to proceed
oulipo_to CorNouws, jpmcc: we are all in agreement here
CorNouws this all within the borders of quality and so
oulipo_to "light touch" rules
oulipo_to provided quality is paramount
oulipo_to :-)
oulipo_to let's move on to 7.x
CorNouws OK, then we can proceed with the currect request from A & E
oulipo_to Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
oulipo_to 	1.	Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
oulipo_to My apologies to Cor
oulipo_to I'll send the document today; it's very simple
jpmcc I like the idea of monitoring quality through user feedback ... this would be one argument for keeping the final issuing of the certificate in-house - we could use that as an opportunity to get feedback from students about their experience.
oulipo_to and was already discussed in a prior CC meeting: status quo codified and then approval by CC
oulipo_to jpmcc: a long time ago, Stefan suggested an ebay like structure for user feedback for such things
oulipo_to we didn't have the technology then. Now we do
oulipo_to moving on to 8.x
oulipo_to it seems a lot like 7.x
oulipo_to but it reads: Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
oulipo_to 	1.	Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
stx12 8 is about project retirement IIRC 
oulipo_to but that is what 7 says it's about
oulipo_to no matter; the basic document will accommodate both points
oulipo_to shall we move on to 3.0?
oulipo_to 3.0: OOoCon 2009
oulipo_to 	1.	Update
oulipo_to 	2.	Any special preparations AFA-the CC-IC ?
CorNouws 2.9?
CorNouws Not yet done, but did adapt the shedule on the wiki, with a remark wrt my proposal.
CorNouws see
oulipo_to 2.9 is next meeting schedule and will be sent by cor to list as voila
oulipo_to i mean, voici
oulipo_to thanks, CorNouws!
oulipo_to and I can attest that wiki does work
oulipo_to but, to return then to 3.0....
oulipo_to yes?
* mhu wonders what "AFA-the CC-IC" abbreviations may mean ...
* oulipo_to was hoping someone smart would know...
* oulipo_to has his hopes dashed :-/
CorNouws as fas as the CC is concered, I guess
oulipo_to ah. cool
mhu huhuuuu :-)
CorNouws but honestly, I do not remember if I added that, or not...
oulipo_to Orwell would find acronym-speak very disturbing indeed. 
oulipo_to it's worse than newspeak
CorNouws :-D
mhu new speech, wasn't it ?
oulipo_to but, anyway, John, do you (yes, you are right, mhu) have report on OOoCon?
jpmcc - CfP issued - 18 volunteers signed up as reviewers
oulipo_to thanks
oulipo_to I have to sign up, too
oulipo_to I can send note to project_leads...
jpmcc Already sent
mhu do we need more than 18 reviewers ? I could help too, if that was needed
jpmcc One of the reasons for using OCS was that it would support more reviewers who could give better feedback to speakers
* stx12 is a bit unsure about the duties and responsibilities of a reviewer.
mhu ...but 18 already sounds like many, compared to past years
oulipo_to mhu: my guess is that the actual number will be less
oulipo_to easy to sign up, another thing altogether to do
jpmcc stx12:
mhu Ah, yes, well. I may then sign up as well.
oulipo_to other updates?
oulipo_to eg, sponsorshiip?
oulipo_to  registrations?
jpmcc Not got any figures from the local team to present as yet.
oulipo_to Might I suggest we (whowever that is but one member at least from CC) participate in an IRC meeting soon to review all these things and other things, too?
mhu sponsorship: I have heard of only 2 so far, IBM and RedFlag 2000
oulipo_to in previous years, we've had many such meetings, intermittently
stx12 jpmcc: i understand that reviewers provide feedback to authors - but how are proposals selected? 
stx12 jpmcc: do you have a sandbox conference we can play with in the system? 
jpmcc stx12: reviewers provide feedback to the OOoCon Team. Based on past experience, the task is usually weeding out the few really bad proposals...
jpmcc we might say one good review gets you in, two bad reviews and you;re out. It depends on the number of proposals, the number of reviewers, etc
jpmcc stx12: I've still got the site on sf as a playpen if we want to use one
stx12 so we need at least 2 reviewers per track 
jpmcc stx12: I hope more :)
jpmcc Certainly for development we will need far more than 2 ...
oulipo_to okay, do we have more to add to this session?
CorNouws session = meeting?
oulipo_to yes
jpmcc What did we conclude about certification?
oulipo_to nothing; it's in progress
oulipo_to we should submit our suggestions to the list, however
oulipo_to the cert list
CorNouws also, as I understood, that we continue with the discussion with Alexandro and Evan
oulipo_to as to the text and evan's responsse, let's read it and review it and discuss it; but  it is in progress
oulipo_to yes.
CorNouws yes
jpmcc oulipo_tp: the cert list ?
oulipo_to yes
oulipo_to but that relates to the points you and I and Cor discussed 
oulipo_to about "light touch"
* mhu would like to finish in 5 min latest, if possible ...
jpmcc mhu: ok by me :-)
oulipo_to the discussion regarding the actual document is still ongoing and comments should be sent to the parties concerned, including the council lsit
oulipo_to so, then if nothing new, i suggest we adjourn this meeting
CorNouws OK, I suggest I make AI's just as the past meeting ..
oulipo_to thanks!!
oulipo_to AIs should be easy: full caps for them ;-)
CorNouws mostly cut and past, but htnks for yout thanks of course :-)
oulipo_to I would suggest we use a template for this, btw
oulipo_to and keep a spreadsheet on the wiki for it
oulipo_to but we can talk about that later
CorNouws ok, look forward to the proposal
* oulipo_to notes that there is a Gannt chart template for ODF/OOo
oulipo_to if no objections, I call this meeting adjourned
oulipo_to Cor to do minutes; irc log to be posted immediately by louis
stx12 fine with me; jpmcc: do have a minute? 
mhu okay, have a nice evening ... bye all
jpmcc stx12: ok
CorNouws bye bye
*** mhu has quit IRC ("bye")
oulipo_to meeting adjourned, bye all
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