Difference between revisions of "Talk:Non Breaking Spaces Before Punctuation In French (espaces insécables)"
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+ | == Exclusion of the NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE (U+202F) == | ||
+ | |||
+ | While the traditional typography usages recommend the use of a space called "''espace fine insécable''", their electronic implementation as NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE (U+202F) character reveals many drawbacks:<br> | ||
+ | * A minority of fonts contain this character<br> | ||
+ | * Many software (browsers) don't handle this character as no-break space.<br> This would lead to unexpected layouts when exporting to HTML.<br> | ||
+ | * The original description of what "''espace fine insécable''" should be is not covered by the electronic standards.<br> | ||
+ | See: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/french.html, Section "Spacing"<br> | ||
+ | <code>"''The French language uses special spacing in connection with several punctuation characters, for example before an exclamation mark. For example, Lexique des Règles Typographiques en usage à l'Imprimerie Nationale says that there should be a "½ cadratin" wide space after an opening quotation mark and before a closing quotation mark. That would half an em space, i.e. an en space. Quite obviously, such spaces should be non-breaking, but there is no non-breaking en space in Unicode!''"</code> | ||
+ | * The manual insertion (if needed) of this character requires much more manipulation ("Insert - Special Character") than a simple space ([Space] key) or the no-break space ([Ctrl+Shift+Space]) | ||
+ | |||
+ | == User experience == | ||
+ | |||
+ | == In Calc == | ||
+ | Test with DEV300_m74, on WinXP. | ||
+ | <ul><li>When entering time as data in a cell, replacement should not occur. For instance with <tt>12:00</tt> you get <tt>12 :00</tt> which is interpreted as text.</li> | ||
+ | <li>You may need to enter references in cell such as: <tt>A1:A2</tt> or <tt>A1;A2</tt> which will give <tt>A1 :A2</tt> or <tt>A1 ;A2</tt> | ||
+ | </ul> |
Latest revision as of 13:05, 15 March 2010
Contents
Brain-Storming
ES: the goal is to make a balance between "everything we can make perfect" and help as many people as possible who are missing this feature.
-
Provocative: Why do we implement this as a core feature while there's already a working extension for this (http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/insecable)?
Note: This extension only works for Writer.
-> No need to download something extra for a function which should work from the start.
-> As mentioned: the extension only works in Writer... -
Scope: "French". In which country? France, Luxembourg, Monaco, Switzerland, Belgium, Canada, others? Which references should we have?
- France, Luxembourg, Monaco, Switzerland, Belgium: http://unicode.org/udhr/n/notes_fra.html
- Canada: http://www.olf.gouv.qc.ca/RESSOURCES/ti/espacements_20030605.pdf. -
Use always a simple non breaking space (HTML:  ) or follow the subtle differentiations of the French typography rules using a so called "thin space" (espace fine) (HTML: &thinsp - which is a BREAKING space!) depending of the case?
Note: MS-Word seems to (always) use the simple non breaking space...
- Yes: the simple non breaking space will be used.-
And then re-work the implementation of "Tools - AutoCorrect Options - Custom Quotes" when French is the current character language?
-
-
Shouldn't we avoid to through a very language specific feature into the general AutoCorrect Options dialog? Create a new localized tab page?
Yes. Both questions above find their answer in the AutoCorrect Options - Localized Options specification.
Exclusion of the NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE (U+202F)
While the traditional typography usages recommend the use of a space called "espace fine insécable", their electronic implementation as NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE (U+202F) character reveals many drawbacks:
- A minority of fonts contain this character
- Many software (browsers) don't handle this character as no-break space.
This would lead to unexpected layouts when exporting to HTML.
- The original description of what "espace fine insécable" should be is not covered by the electronic standards.
See: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/french.html, Section "Spacing"
"The French language uses special spacing in connection with several punctuation characters, for example before an exclamation mark. For example, Lexique des Règles Typographiques en usage à l'Imprimerie Nationale says that there should be a "½ cadratin" wide space after an opening quotation mark and before a closing quotation mark. That would half an em space, i.e. an en space. Quite obviously, such spaces should be non-breaking, but there is no non-breaking en space in Unicode!"
- The manual insertion (if needed) of this character requires much more manipulation ("Insert - Special Character") than a simple space ([Space] key) or the no-break space ([Ctrl+Shift+Space])
User experience
In Calc
Test with DEV300_m74, on WinXP.
- When entering time as data in a cell, replacement should not occur. For instance with 12:00 you get 12 :00 which is interpreted as text.
- You may need to enter references in cell such as: A1:A2 or A1;A2 which will give A1 :A2 or A1 ;A2