Previous Education Meetings logs/February 2010/15th february

[19:41] * clemat (~52d8de1f@gateway/web/freenode/x-hmwqrbmznyrhcyeh) has joined #education.openoffice.org

[20:17] <IZBot> News from cws: buildtool09: created

[20:30] * arthurb (~arthur@110.244.83-79.rev.gaoland.net) has joined #education.openoffice.org

[20:32] <ericb2> Meeting time ?

[20:33] <arthurb> lets do it

[20:34] <ericb2> ok

[20:34] * lgodard (~lgodard@LAubervilliers-153-51-9-99.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #education.openoffice.org

[20:34] <ericb2> As reminder, the agenda :

[20:34] <ericb2> Agenda for 15th of February 2010 meeting

[20:34] <ericb2> 1. Welcome new students/ devs

[20:34] <ericb2> 2. A point with students from Ecole Centrale Nantes

[20:34] <ericb2> 3. Validate:

[20:34] <ericb2> AI1 : provide a Gantt diagram of the project

[20:34] <ericb2> AI2 : students working on the next part ( Tablet PC) are ok building and debugging OOo

[20:34] <ericb2> 4. misc (add your questions)

[20:34] <ericb2> Point 1 : new students around ?

[20:34] <ericb2> or devs

[20:34] <arthurb> nope

[20:35] <arthurb> clemat: are you there ?

[20:35] <arthurb> ericb2: should be there any second

[20:36] <clemat> clemat: I was cooking

[20:36] <ericb2> clemat: :)

[20:36] <ericb2> ok, I propose to continue with point 2

[20:37] <ericb2> A point with students from Ecole Centrale Nantes

[20:37] <arthurb> agreed

[20:37] <ericb2> who starts ?

[20:37] <arthurb> ericb2: ill go first

[20:38] <arthurb> ericb2: my build is ok and i started working with gdb

[20:38] <arthurb> ericb2: i couldn't work so much last week but this week will be more productive

[20:39] <ericb2> arthurb: what did you debug ?

[20:39] <arthurb> ericb2: as for technical problems i have some but this may not be the time to bring them up

[20:39] <arthurb> ericb2: vcl

[20:39] <ericb2> arthurb: what exactly ? Some control ?

[20:40] <arthurb> ericb2: i can't build the last milestone (m_71) containing the eraser even though i had none with m_70

[20:40] <ericb2> arthurb: what was the issue ?

[20:40] <arthurb> ericb2: and i can't seem to be able to builld debug version of the slideshow module on m_70

[20:41] <ericb2> arthurb: ok, so this will be our next step, for the next iteration.

[20:41] <ericb2> clemat: and you ?

[20:41] <thorsten> slight catch with slideshow - you either build _all_ of slideshow with debug, or none.

[20:41] <thorsten> i.e. rm -rf slideshow/unxlngi* && build debug=t

[20:42] * lgodard (~lgodard@LAubervilliers-153-51-9-99.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) has left #education.openoffice.org

[20:42] <clemat> ericb2: I tried to change my fat32 partition in a ext2 and a ext2 type, but for both of them, I'not even able to create a single directory in it, I don't know why, so I still have some issues with the mastering of linux

[20:42] <ericb2> clemat: looks like you both have problems

[20:43] <ericb2> how many time did you work since the last week (just for my information) ?

[20:43] <arthurb> thorsten: trying that as we speak

[20:43] <thorsten> clemat: "sudo mkdir /<mount_point>/new_dir/"

[20:43] <thorsten> clemat: "sudo chown <usergroup>:<user> /<mount_point>/new_dir"

[20:44] <arthurb> thorsten: i have the same error as before http://pastebin.ca/1797543

[20:45] <arthurb> thorsten: and i tried to do hg update again

[20:45] <arthurb> thorsten: with no success

[20:45] * thorsten looks

[20:45] * ericb2 too

[20:46] <arthurb> thorsten: ericb2 after this error i even can't rebuild the release version of the slideshow module

[20:46] <ericb2> arthurb: but before, you did, right ?

[20:46] <arthurb> ericb2: yes

[20:47] <arthurb> ericb2: i still have the original unlngi folder

[20:47] <thorsten> arthurb: use the patch from here: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=107473

[20:47] <IZBot> issue 107473: timed out

[20:47] <clemat> ericb2: Let me think, I don't really know, I worked everyday and we spend one hour with Arthur thinking about the canvas and the eraser

[20:48] * thorsten curses long and loud, when will they ever apply such things as P1 master fixes ... :(

[20:48] <ericb2> indeed ..

[20:48] <arthurb> thorsten: thanks

[20:48] <clemat> ericb2: maybe something like 6 hours

[20:48] <ericb2> clemat: I'd like to understand why you cannot build the slideshow again without symbols

[20:48] <thorsten> it's outrageous - seems Hamburg is not even building nonpro anymore ...

[20:48] <ericb2> clemat: ok

[20:49] <ericb2> thorsten: ;)

[20:50] <ericb2> clemat: arthurb : I propose to build with you the m71, say for thursday (deadline)

[20:50] * thorsten is really upset by such things - it's the most stupid thing of all to neglect the nonpro

[20:51] <ericb2> clemat: arthurb will you be online tomorrow and wednesday ? This is important to work regularly on that, and continue with the next step as soon as possible

[20:51] <arthurb> ericb2: i will

[20:51] <ericb2> this part is not interesting at all for you, and sooner we did it, better this will be for all

[20:52] <ericb2> arthurb: ok. And I'll participate too. I'd like to see whether there are breakers on Mac too

[20:52] <clemat> ericb2: I will try but I will help I think

[20:52] <ericb2> clemat: sure

[20:52] <arthurb> ericb2: i agree

[20:53] <ericb2> clemat: I'll checkout DEV300_m71 tonight, and start a build tonight too

[20:53] <clemat> thorsten: I'm sorry but I don't do which "usergroup' to put, do you know?

[20:54] <thorsten> clemat: the one your own user is part of - what does "ls -al" say in your homedir?

[20:54] <ericb2> clemat: you should be able to create a directory on the new partition

[20:54] <clemat> thorsten: total 28 drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 2010-02-15 20:50 . drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 2010-02-15 19:46 .. drwx------ 2 root root 16384 2010-02-15 19:44 lost+found drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2010-02-15 20:50 new_dir

[20:55] <thorsten> clemat: that's not your homedir ;)

[20:55] <thorsten> /home/<your_user> is

[20:56] <arthurb> type 'cd' to go there

[20:56] <arthurb> i have a stupid question i can't find the answer on the wiki

[20:57] <ericb2> arthurb: and the question is ?

[20:57] <arthurb> how does one apply a patch ? (i feel stupid asking that)

[20:57] <arthurb> :)

[20:57] <thorsten> oh not at all,

[20:57] <ericb2> arthurb: you shouldn't

[20:57] <thorsten> this is likely nowhere explained -

[20:58] <thorsten> so the ultimate way is "patch -p0 -l --dry-run < <path>/<to>/<your>/patch.diff"

[20:58] <thorsten> for the first run,

[20:58] <thorsten> this does not mess with your tree, but tells you if something cannot be applied,

[20:58] <ericb2> arthurb: I wrote courses (in french) about that ?

[20:58] <thorsten> then "patch -p0 -l < <path>/<to>/<your>/patch.diff"

[20:58] <thorsten> for the real thing,

[20:58] <thorsten> which, if something cannot be applied,

[20:59] <arthurb> ericb2: ohh sorry

[20:59] <thorsten> leaves you <filename>.rej files in your tree,

[20:59] <thorsten> arthurb: do your homework then ;-P

[20:59] <arthurb> thorsten: thanks :)

[21:00] <clemat> thorsten: here is the result of my ls -al

[21:00] <clemat> thorsten: http://paste.lisp.org/display/95000

[21:00] <thorsten> 'k

[21:00] <thorsten> so,

[21:00] <thorsten> clemat, your chown call then needs ei3-info:ei3-info

[21:01] <clemat> thorsten: ok thank you

[21:01] <ericb2> clemat: arthurb : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/UTBM_LO22/P07/Linux/Documentation/complements_diff.pdf http://eric.bachard.free.fr/UTBM_LO22/P07/Linux/Documentation/complements_patch.pdf

[21:01] <arthurb> ericb2: thanks

[21:01] <ericb2> arthurb: just basics, but 1) read it 2) ask more questions

[21:02] <ericb2> arthurb: I got Linux courses too, about rights, directories creation, and a lot of Unix basics too

[21:03] <arthurb> ericb2: my error while trying to build m_71 happens very fast http://pastebin.ca/1797563

[21:03] <arthurb> ericb2: sounds nice ill check it out

[21:03] <ericb2> arthurb: shortly : diff is a binary who creates the "patch" ( means .patch or .diff ) and patch is the binary who will apply the patch

[21:04] <arthurb> ericb2: ok

[21:04] <clemat> thorsten: ericb2: ok thank it works now, I launched a svn://svn.services.openoffice.org/ooo/tags/OOO320_m12 , you're ok with that?

[21:04] <ericb2> arthurb: the error is in the log (95% of the time): not found and couldn't be built

[21:04] <thorsten> clemat: sweet!

[21:05] <ericb2> clemat: yes : first build something 'stable' and once the first build done, you'll try something less stable

[21:05] <ericb2> arthurb: this means your checkout is not complete, and several modules are missing

[21:05] <clemat> ericb2: thorsten ok perfect, thank you again

[21:06] <ericb2> arthurb: dmake is the right command to detect that at the beginning of the build (in postprocess)

[21:06] <arthurb> ericb2: that's what thorsten said but i tried downloading it again with same results

[21:06] <ericb2> arthurb: ah. So I'll start the download now, to confirm something is wrong

[21:07] <ericb2> arthurb: if so, you'll file your first issue

[21:07] <ericb2> ;)

[21:07] <arthurb> haha

[21:07] <ericb2> Next point ?

[21:07] <arthurb> do i win 1337$ like in the chromium project ?

[21:07] <arthurb> :=

[21:07] <arthurb> *:=

[21:08] <arthurb> **:)

[21:08] <thorsten> arthurb: ah

[21:08] <ericb2> we can consider the AI2 is not verified, and we'll have to recheck the next meeting

[21:08] <arthurb> ericb2: the gantt diagram

[21:08] <thorsten> arthurb: regarding the breakage -

[21:08] <thorsten> ok, later then

[21:08] <arthurb> thorsten: now is fine

[21:10] <arthurb> ericb2: also we wanted to talk to you about the few ideas we had for Impress

[21:10] <arthurb> ericb2: but should it be posponed for the next meeting too ?

[21:10] <ericb2> arthurb: I propose to continue with the AI first, and continue with your ideas in misc. Ok ?

[21:11] <arthurb> ericb2: yep

[21:11] <ericb2> please go ahead

[21:12] <arthurb> ericb2: i have the gantt in html version should i send it to your email address ?

[21:12] <ericb2> arthurb: more simple : the wiki can understand html, and maybe you can put it directly online ?

[21:12] <arthurb> ericb2: right

[21:12] <ericb2> arthurb: no need to use something complicated, though

[21:13] <arthurb> ericb2: it's actually a 3D animated gantt diagram

[21:13] <ericb2> he he

[21:13] <arthurb> :)

[21:14] <ericb2> I suggest you to put it at the following URL ... min

[21:14] <arthurb> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project/Effort/Ecole_Centrale_Nantes/Tablet_fourth_project ?

[21:15] <ericb2> arthurb: thanks :)

[21:15] <ericb2> arthurb: that's a good location, and we'll be able to follow your progress

[21:17] <ericb2> arthurb: clemat : to save some time (this is late), I suggest you to put the diagram online tonight or tomorrow, and we'll validate it + the AI during the next meeting. Ok ?

[21:17] <arthurb> ericb2: allright

[21:18] <ericb2> this leads us at the last point : your ideas

[21:18] <arthurb> ericb2: just a sec ...

[21:19] <arthurb> ericb2: ok

[21:19] <arthurb> ericb2: how do you say 'calque' in english ?

[21:20] <arthurb> ericb2: it's not sheet right ?

[21:20] <ericb2> arthurb: no idea. transparent .. layer maybe ?

[21:20] <arthurb> ericb2: let's settle for layer

[21:21] <ericb2> arthurb: Google told me "tracing paper"

[21:21] <ericb2> arthurb: not 100% sure

[21:21] <arthurb> ericb2: wikipedia says layer...

[21:21] * cbosdonnat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)

[21:22] <ericb2> arthurb: ah, I see. Indeed, we use layers with slideshow/sd

[21:22] <ericb2> arthurb: and overlay in some cases

[21:22] <arthurb> ericb2: we thought about adding the possibility of saving the annotations made during presentation mode to general annotations

[21:22] <ericb2> thorsten: is it correct ?

[21:23] <arthurb> ericb2: like when you exit presentation mode you are offered to add annotations made during the presentation to the general annotations

[21:23] <arthurb> clemat: correct me if im wrong

[21:23] <ericb2> arthurb: this is already proposed if I'm not wrong

[21:23] <ericb2> arthurb: in eraser01

[21:23] <arthurb> ericb2: ok

[21:23] <thorsten> ericb2: yep, layers is the term

[21:23] <arthurb> ericb2: we based all this on what we could experiment

[21:24] <arthurb> ericb2: ok another one then

[21:24] <ericb2> arthurb: if I remember correctly, the current state of eraser01 proposes to "Save as" (what is better than MS Office proposes)

[21:25] <ericb2> arthurb: but maybe this has to be improved.

[21:25] <clemat> arthurb: well, I'm ok

[21:25] <arthurb> ericb2: from what i understood what the eraser does is that it adds a layer of white onto the parts that need to be erased

[21:26] <arthurb> ericb2: we thought that we could delete that layer when we exit presentation mode and reconstruction the objects drawn in the annotations

[21:26] <clemat> ericb2: yes, we would like to see if it's possible to change the object

[21:26] <ericb2> thorsten: your opinion ?

[21:26] <arthurb> ericb2: from talking to metrokid (johnathan winandy) it seems rather easy

[21:27] <thorsten> ericb2: sure, lots of improvement possible in that area,

[21:27] <arthurb> ericb2: a line erased in the middle would then become two lines as in two different objects

[21:27] <ericb2> arthurb: the point is : if this is an improvement, I'll be ok. And I think this is one

[21:28] <ericb2> arthurb: clemat : ok, let's do that as first task

[21:28] <arthurb> ericb2: you agree on the idea but you're not sure it's easy/doable-within-the-deadlines ?

[21:29] <ericb2> arthurb: I think it is. The problem is : you must run a bit, to be sure it will fit in the time you have

[21:29] <arthurb> ericb2: ok

[21:29] <ericb2> arthurb: and about the primitives, I think analyze the previous code (using basegfx) is the best thing to do. Jut a proof of concept, well documented would be great

[21:29] <arthurb> ericb2: ok

[21:29] <clemat> ericb2 ok

[21:29] <ericb2> please do not underestimate the documentation, and work regularly

[21:30] <ericb2> Last point : next meeting ?

[21:30] <arthurb> ericb2: next idea ?

[21:30] <clemat> ericb2: we have several ideas!

[21:30] <ericb2> arthurb: if you have yet ideas, you can propose it, but we'll have to choose

[21:30] <arthurb> ericb2: ahhh

[21:30] <ericb2> please shoot :)

[21:31] <arthurb> ericb2: we thought about differenciating more annotations made during presentation mode and regular ones

[21:32] <arthurb> ericb2: like being able to display or not the annotations

[21:32] <arthurb> ericb2: and actually maybe differenciate more the slide from its annotation (that would be the main idea actually)

[21:33] <arthurb> ericb2: (rather than differenciating annotations i mean)

[21:33] <ericb2> will this make the contextual menu more complicated (what is not a good idea imho)

[21:33] <ericb2> ?

[21:34] <arthurb> ericb2: couldn't it be done the a keyboard command for instance ?

[21:34] <arthurb> *through a keyboard command...

[21:35] <ericb2> arthurb: if you mean a shortcut, I'm not sure this is possible, but we have to investigate (take care, this is a lot of time for such features)

[21:35] <arthurb> ericb2: ok so maybe start with the original idea

[21:35] <arthurb> ericb2: and move on to other ones once we're done with it

[21:35] <ericb2> arthurb: e.g. you enter in portability, User Experience, usability domains, and this is not that easy to convince Mac users and Windows users e.g.

[21:36] <ericb2> arthurb: I think this can complete the study : a clean analysis, for the next teams

[21:36] <arthurb> ericb2: by mac and windows users who exactly are you refering to ?

[21:37] <ericb2> arthurb: one uses the CMD and the other the CTRL key => some (flame)war to come ;)

[21:37] <arthurb> ericb2: :)

[21:37] <clemat> ericb2: we thought too add the possibility to select the annotation mode in the diaporam mode, like with powerpoint.

[21:38] <ericb2> arthurb: two different worlds, two visions of what an User Interface should be. Not easy to choose

[21:38] <arthurb> ericb2: yes without having to check that special option which name i forgot

[21:39] <ericb2> this is another good idea. Let's document it too

[21:39] <arthurb> ericb2: ok

[21:40] <arthurb> modifications will be brought to the gantt diagram

[21:40] <ericb2> ok, as tasks

[21:41] <clemat> ericb2: maybe we should make a difference between temporary annotations and the definitive, with asking if the annotations have to be saved at the end of the presentation

[21:41] <ericb2> clemat: I see

[21:41] <clemat> ericb2: it's an exemple, we thought too of the possibility to create two kind of annotation, definitive ones and draft ones

[21:42] <ericb2> clemat: what we need is examples

[21:43] <clemat> ericb2: yes, maybe some people just would like to draw some little thing during the presentations but don't wan't them to be on the slides forever

[21:44] <clemat> arthurb: what else?

[21:44] <ericb2> clemat: I start to see what you mean : e.g. one mathematical demonstration (volatile, for the next course), and add usefull information, can be kept

[21:44] <arthurb> clemat: i think that's it

[21:45] <arthurb> ericb2: clemat yes but maybe this can be done thourgh the manipulation of the annotations which we will be working on

[21:45] * ericb2 got a question too : how will we use the tools the previous team used ?

[21:46] <ericb2> e.g. Redmin ( or a name close), and other tools, for coordination and so on

[21:47] <arthurb> ericb2: i don't know what you're talking about

[21:48] <ericb2> arthurb: with Nelle and other, we used collaboative tools. Not me, but the students in fact

[21:48] <ericb2> arthurb: I'd say "productivity" tools

[21:48] <arthurb> ericb2: right

[21:48] <arthurb> ericb2: do we really need those since we're just two ?

[21:48] <arthurb> ericb2: do we really need those since we're just two ?

[21:49] <ericb2> arthurb: that's why I ask

[21:49] <arthurb> clemat: do you agree ?

[21:49] * ericb2 bets clemat will agree :)

[21:49] <clemat> ericb2: I don't know, I don't think, what's the point of this tools?

[21:50] <ericb2> clemat: work together, respect the deadline, project management

[21:50] <ericb2> ok, let's think to that for the next meeting

[21:51] <clemat> ericb2: we can do that without I think

[21:51] <arthurb> ericb2: ok we'll come up with an anwser for next meeting

[21:51] <arthurb> ericb2: wich will be when ?

[21:51] <ericb2> what do you propose ?

[21:52] <arthurb> ericb2: end of the week ?

[21:52] <arthurb> ericb2: just before our vacations ?

[21:52] <clemat> ericb2: ok for me

[21:52] <arthurb> ericb2: like friday morning ?

[21:52] <ericb2> let's go for friday morning : 10h30, as usual ?

[21:52] <clemat> ericb2: ok!

[21:52] <ericb2> if I summarize, the AI to validate are :

[21:52] <arthurb> ericb2: set !

[21:53] <ericb2> AI1, AI2 (see previous agenda)

[21:53] <ericb2> + confirm we'll not use the previous tools

[21:54] <ericb2> and continue the ideas research, and validate the choice for the project

[21:54] <ericb2> the last point will be AI3

[21:54] <ericb2> arthurb: clemat : please confirm you're ok

[21:54] <arthurb> ericb2: (AI=Action Item ?)

[21:54] <arthurb> ericb2: ok

[21:54] <ericb2> exactly

[21:54] <clemat> ericb2: ok

[21:55] <ericb2> the last point: checke the Gantt diagram, and agree about the content

[21:55] <ericb2> check

[21:55] <arthurb> ok

[21:55] <ericb2> If nobody disagrees, the next meeting is scheduled on Friday 19 February, 10h30 CET (Paris)

[21:56] <ericb2> thorsten: is it ok for you ?

[21:56] <thorsten> ericb2: perfect! :)