OOoSCM Minutes 2008-02-07 IRC log

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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb  7 14:57:46 2008
Feb 07 14:57:46 -->	You are now talking on #oooscm
Feb 07 14:59:58 -->	kendy (n=kendy@nat/suse/x-9914f33af57ab5b1) has joined #oooscm
Feb 07 15:00:03 <blauwal>	Hi
Feb 07 15:00:05 <kendy>	Hello!
Feb 07 15:01:36 <blauwal>	Hi Kendy, success with lazy cloning in git?
Feb 07 15:02:47 <kendy>	blauwal: Yep :-)
Feb 07 15:03:18 <blauwal>	So how does it look like?
Feb 07 15:03:51 <kendy>	blauwal: I'm getting a nice lazy clone now, it downloads just 550M to be able to checkout.
Feb 07 15:04:25 <blauwal>	good
Feb 07 15:04:26 <kendy>	blauwal: Unfortunately - it's still not perfect, git diff downloads the stuff after the 3rd invocation ;-) - working on that now.
Feb 07 15:05:14 <kendy>	[I mean, it downloads the stuff during the first 2 invocations, 3rd one (and subsequent ones) does the actual diff ;-)]
Feb 07 15:05:39 <blauwal>	:)
Feb 07 15:05:58 <kendy>	blauwal: To get the 550M, it needs about 14 roundtrips (depending on the depth on the tree)
Feb 07 15:06:34 <blauwal>	I've had a few problems wit git under windows. Got locking errors during cloning from remote, but no errors during pure local clones. HDo you know how serious are these locking errors?
Feb 07 15:07:00 <kendy>	blauwal: Unfortunately no idea :-(
Feb 07 15:07:48 <blauwal>	They don't look that serious I couldn't find any restriction in usability.
Feb 07 15:07:54 <kendy>	blauwal: But these days I feel confident to fix such stuff ;-)
Feb 07 15:08:11 <kendy>	blauwal: Do you have some actual numbers now, please?
Feb 07 15:08:24 <blauwal>	I've got my numbers more or less complete, some windows on remote volumes tests are missing (they hurt for both systems)
Feb 07 15:08:41 <blauwal>	you can find it on the SCM migration page
Feb 07 15:08:48 *	kendy looks
Feb 07 15:10:06 <blauwal>	I've got one more number for subversion checkout (Windows on remote): 157m14s ....
Feb 07 15:10:34 <blauwal>	The git cloning (Windows on remote) died during the night 
Feb 07 15:11:48 <blauwal>	I've learned a bit about git these last days but I'm still making stupid errors ...
Feb 07 15:15:22 <kendy>	blauwal: What git version are you using, please?
Feb 07 15:15:55 <blauwal>	git version 1.5.4 (cygwin) 
Feb 07 15:16:01 <kendy>	blauwal: Git improves in not allowing to shoot you in your leg from what I know, but still is not perfect in that regard ;-)
Feb 07 15:16:06 <blauwal>	I used cygwin subversion as well
Feb 07 15:16:48 <blauwal>	so the penalty is the same. Actually in bit cases because I needed to setup a ssh tunnel
Feb 07 15:17:14 <blauwal>	Yeah, the usage is still a bit on the arcane side :)
Feb 07 15:18:11 <blauwal>	I think I need to do a git reset --hard on the O3-build repository because I think I did some unitennded things to it ...
Feb 07 15:20:44 <blauwal>	In my opinion the numbers do not rule out one candidate. Git is very fast for some operations but subversion is by no means slow. Both are more dependent on fast local disk bandwidth then network bandwidth. 
Feb 07 15:21:33 <kendy>	blauwal: Yes, I'd say I like the numbers ;-)
Feb 07 15:21:37 <blauwal>	I need to do some final test on the (windows on remote) stuff to say for sure, though. Working on it
Feb 07 15:22:00 <kendy>	blauwal: OK
Feb 07 15:22:18 <blauwal>	Interestingly does the size of the history not really affect operation (apart from git clone). I didn't expect this
Feb 07 15:23:18 <blauwal>	We need to come up with a statement for the ESC meeting.
Feb 07 15:24:54 <blauwal>	I think they even might expect a little presentation. I know that you still prefer Git and I still prefer subversion (for OOo, otherwise Mercurial because it so eeeasy), so we probably can't give a simple recommendation.
Feb 07 15:27:14 <kendy>	blauwal: Well, I thought that the result of the ESC was that they'd prefer distributed system if the numbers are comparable.  But of course - as you said, I like git, and dislike SVN, so... I might have misunderstood ;-)
Feb 07 15:27:23 <blauwal>	So may proposal would be to say that we evaluated both, found that the numbers don't rule out one, list the advantages and disadvantages of both and tell the steering committee to choose one in open discussion
Feb 07 15:27:52 <kendy>	blauwal: I think that might work.
Feb 07 15:28:37 <kendy>	blauwal: Additionally I'll provide you with the patch for the lazy clone - if you had some time the next week to try that one as well - as a way to reduce the initial clone.
Feb 07 15:29:06 <blauwal>	That would be really nice. I certainly will try it out.
Feb 07 15:30:18 <kendy>	blauwal: So - with the statement for ESC - will you start that & me editing it next, or should we both try independantly, and then merge?
Feb 07 15:30:21 <blauwal>	I write up a few words for the ESC and send it to you. You than edit it and maybe we can give them a common paper with an open recommendation.
Feb 07 15:30:26 *	kendy would prefer the 1st way
Feb 07 15:30:41 <kendy>	blauwal: Sounds perfect
Feb 07 15:31:00 <blauwal>	I hope I will have that paper ready Friday next week
Feb 07 15:31:22 <blauwal>	That should give you a few days to overwork it
Feb 07 15:31:29 <kendy>	blauwal: The ESC is on Monday after that, right?
Feb 07 15:31:42 <blauwal>	no that doesn't work
Feb 07 15:31:50 <kendy>	blauwal: Thursday evening would be better if you could, but...
Feb 07 15:31:55 <blauwal>	you are right ... OK Thursday.
Feb 07 15:32:07 <kendy>	blauwal: Great, thanks!
Feb 07 15:32:19 <blauwal>	Wednesday is my work from home day ... good for such stuff
Feb 07 15:32:28 <kendy>	:-)
Feb 07 15:32:53 *	kendy has Mondays & Fridays
Feb 07 15:33:34 <kendy>	[Not these days when wife & daughter are at my wife parents ;-)]
Feb 07 15:33:45 <kendy>	Anyway - thank you a lot!
Feb 07 15:33:57 *	blauwal thinks that's really nice ... he could have a second day too, if there were'nt so many meetings
Feb 07 15:34:03 ---	doko_ is now known as doko
Feb 07 15:34:12 <blauwal>	Hi Matthias!
Feb 07 15:34:25 <kendy>	I'll send you the patch tomorrow - hopefully, and will look forward to the paper.
Feb 07 15:34:53 <blauwal>	Ok, I think that's it for today. Anything else?
Feb 07 15:35:05 <kendy>	blauwal: All from my side.
Feb 07 15:35:31 <blauwal>	See you next week!
Feb 07 15:35:41 <kendy>	Bye!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb  7 15:37:15 2008
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