Modularization/IRCLOGS/20091124.log

Conversation with #ooom12n at 2009年11月24日 星期二 15时52分15秒 on _ch_@irc.ubuntu.com (irc)
(15时56分23秒) liutao: good moom
(16时01分59秒) is__ [n=is@nat/sun/x-pyxphfnvdhkkmszu] 进入了聊天室。
(16时02分28秒) is__: Good morning.
(16时03分18秒) _ch_: Is: Morning! :)
(16时03分20秒) is__ 离开了聊天室("Leaving")。
(16时03分29秒) is__ [n=is@nat/sun/x-pyxphfnvdhkkmszu] 进入了聊天室。
(16时03分48秒) liutao: good mornig
(16时03分51秒) liutao: morning
(16时03分51秒) Gallomimia: it's midnight all you crazy people ><
(16时03分57秒) Gallomimia: who's in charge around here??
(16时04分15秒) liutao: It's 16:04 here
(16时04分18秒) liutao: in BeiJing
(16时04分36秒) is__: No, no, it is 9 am here in Hamburg :-)
(16时04分40秒) Gallomimia: same time zone as singapore
(16时04分42秒) Gallomimia: good to know
(16时05分20秒) Gallomimia: not everyone is here yet
(16时05分30秒) Gallomimia: to fill the moments, i will ask you guys
(16时05分43秒) _ch_: Is there anybody received my mail via maillist dev@openoffice.org or dev@extension.openoffice.org ?
(16时05分50秒) Gallomimia: what sorts of progress is made on separating language packs from each build
(16时06分30秒) Gallomimia: what does your From read when you send such mail?
(16时06分36秒) is__: gallominia: Have you asked ihi@openoffice.org in the last week. He makes this project
(16时06分54秒) _ch_: with topic: "Why doesn't my extension work well? And I want to make it configurable", I can not receive it yet.
(16时07分21秒) Gallomimia: i think i remember seeing it
(16时08分14秒) is__: _ch_: I see it in the extension list, 5 hours ago
(16时08分19秒) Gallomimia: hm. i think i should start subscribing to those mailing lists
(16时08分27秒) _ch_: OOH, I have just received it.
(16时08分40秒) _ch_: is_: thank you. : )
(16时09分35秒) is__: _ch_: Our extension experts answer very fast typically
(16时10分33秒) is__: _ch_: and in the extension mailing list is much less traffic than in openoffice.de, so it is the better place for your question.
(16时10分40秒) Gallomimia: hm. i can't seem to subscribe to the dev@extension
(16时11分00秒) Gallomimia: oh well
(16时11分09秒) _ch_: is: thank you for your information. I have thought I haven't sent it out. :)
(16时11分33秒) is__: gallominia: dev@extensions.openoffice.org
(16时12分38秒) is__: _ch_: I do not know, why I cannot see your mail in openoffice.dev. But my experience is, that it sometimes only needs some seconds and sometimes it needs a whole day on our lists.
(16时13分22秒) Gallomimia: oh extensions with s
(16时14分39秒) _ch_: is: OK. I just want to make sure I have send it out . :)
(16时15分40秒) is__: Hm, I have no information from Kay, if he want to join today or not. Do we have an agenda for today?
(16时15分49秒) _ch_: is: If the extension works, I would like to make it into package.  :)
(16时16分09秒) _ch_: is: I don't .
(16时16分38秒) Gallomimia: who's chairing the meeting. i think that's is__
(16时17分39秒) #ooom12n: 由 Gallomimia 管理(+o is__ )
(16时17分43秒) #ooom12n: 由 Gallomimia 管理(-o Gallomimia )
(16时19分00秒) is__: _ch_: There is a special packaging process for bundled extensions. They are packed into their own Unix packages with special post install scripts.
(16时19分42秒) is__: _ch_: I will send you a link to our ooo wiki page, that describes this. But maybe you already found this page.
(16时22分09秒) _ch_: is: I have found it . I think. :)
(16时22分13秒) _ch_: is: thank you.
(16时23分08秒) _ch_: is: I am trying to make my extension works well, and then package it. But it seems a little far from our goals? :)
(16时24分49秒) is__: _ch_: Ah, here we go. Here is the link: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions_Integration_into_Installation_Set
(16时26分01秒) _ch_: is: thank you very much! :-)
(16时27分26秒) is__: _ch_: Well, maybe in the future bigger parts of the Office product can be added by extensions. So maybe modularization can be achived by usage of extensions. You should at least know this process.
(16时28分24秒) Gallomimia: i saw someone today ask in the general channel if they can download only parts of OOo due to limited bandwidth
(16时29分44秒) is__: gallomimia: Not in the moment. We have one full office product compressed into one package for the download. Selection of modules happens after the installation has started.
(16时29分53秒) Gallomimia: i think it would be nice if we offered downloads of only writer, or allowed the addition of calc
(16时30分13秒) Gallomimia: probably not the easiest thing to accomplish in the world
(16时30分42秒) is__: gallomimia: I work on unifying download and installation. Module selection shall happen before the download starts. Then this will be possible.
(16时31分04秒) Gallomimia: how's that working for you?
(16时31分10秒) _ch_: is: agree. :)
(16时32分07秒) Gallomimia: my goal is to see an installer of a meg or two which runs, allows you to select the languages/programs to install, verifies your platform, and downloads the needed files through http, ftp, and p2p, in peices.
(16时32分46秒) Gallomimia: it's clear to me that for the more popular files, p2p is much more powerful than existing http/ftp mirrors. p2p floods 100% downstream, http gives maybe 30%
(16时34分11秒) is__: gallomimia: It is not so far away from your idea. It shall be a Java Installer, that can use Java WebStart technology. 1 MB has to be downloaded, for the GUI, strings, package descriptions, ...
(16时34分32秒) Gallomimia: it has to be multilingual and every platform
(16时34分43秒) Gallomimia: but i've heard of this java program. is it not yet finished?
(16时35分07秒) is__: After the module selection the selected packages are downloaded with http. The installation set contains all languages, but is platform specific (at least at the moment)
(16时36分12秒) is__: No, it is not yet finished. There are still many things to clarify. Especially deployments in big companies have to be supported, which is not clear with this process.
(16时39分06秒) is__: Concerning you interest in language packs, my idea is, that languages can be added from this installation set in maintenance mode. Simply add or remove new languages with the installer. Perhaps no special language pack product is required then.
(16时40分38秒) Gallomimia: yes i agree completely
(16时40分47秒) Gallomimia: especially since some companies will require a number of languages
(16时40分53秒) Gallomimia: maybe they want to install 3 or 4
(16时41分19秒) Gallomimia: then they hire a bunch of indian immigrants cause that's pretty common today in almost any country you go, and they want to add punjabi
(16时41分37秒) Gallomimia: well the admin fires it up and gets it installed in an hour or two
(16时41分41秒) Gallomimia: for all machines
(16时43分02秒) Gallomimia: i don't see any reason to download and install a platform other than the one the machine is running
(16时43分26秒) Gallomimia: perhaps if you request it to download a couple other platforms with all modules and languages included for migration to another system
(16时44分34秒) is__: We want to use the native installers on all platforms. Windows Installer on Windows, Solaris packages on Solaris and so on.
(16时45分24秒) is__: Therefore we want to separate this different installation sets, one with msi packages, another one with Solaris packages.
(16时45分52秒) Gallomimia: and the mac. hardest installer of all :O
(16时45分57秒) ***Gallomimia uses mac
(16时46分21秒) is__: Mac is very interesting. We use dmg files at the moment.
(16时46分50秒) Gallomimia: dmg is the recommended standard
(16时47分00秒) is__: I investigated the native Mac packages, but my result was, that using this packages is no advantage and makes things much more difficult. You agree?
(16时47分12秒) Gallomimia: it's interesting that the program is just seated in there
(16时47分36秒) is__: MS Office and Apple applications of course use the native package format.
(16时47分37秒) Gallomimia: there's no need for an actual install to run, aside from the fact that you might have modules and lang packs to install separately
(16时48分06秒) Gallomimia: standard mac installs are with .pkg opened by the apple-provided installer.app
(16时48分25秒) Gallomimia: authentication and scripts are run within a secure environment that users have grown to trust
(16时49分13秒) Gallomimia: but with regular apps, such as this irc client, or ooo, it's just a .app that can be dropped in any location you like. there's no libraries or plugins that need to be installed in the system
(16时49分41秒) is__: But this installer is not good supported. It does not offer the capabilities of RPM for example. You cannot rely on the system database, because users remove their products simply by deleting them, without using uninstall.
(16时50分24秒) Gallomimia: other than settings files, there's nothing to uninstall
(16时50分28秒) Gallomimia: for open office...
(16时51分02秒) is__: And if we use dmg also in the future, I cannot see an advantage of using the Java download installer.
(16时51分03秒) Gallomimia: other programs yes... they need uninstall scripts. some developers provide them
(16时51分05秒) Gallomimia: most don't
(16时51分31秒) Gallomimia: no neither can i. but there must be a way to install additional language packs for this platform
(16时51分51秒) Gallomimia: my dream is to see "language packs" be a platform independent file
(16时52分00秒) Gallomimia: containing localizations, dictionaries, and documentation
(16时52分07秒) is__: gallomimia: there is a way for adding language packs
(16时52分21秒) Gallomimia: dig in the package contents?
(16时52分44秒) Gallomimia: i have yet to find a way to download these language packs, or any explanation for doing so on mac
(16时52分44秒) is__: I introduced this with a script that is included into the dmg file
(16时52分54秒) Gallomimia: what version did this start?
(16时53分12秒) is__: the script searches for an ooo installation and starts installation exactly there.
(16时53分24秒) is__: I think it will be part of ooo 3.2
(16时55分06秒) Gallomimia: interesting
(16时55分38秒) Gallomimia: i should caution you, as someone who tests and takes part in the project, i have multiple install sets in different locations
(16时55分48秒) Gallomimia: there's one in my primary apps folder which is NOT /Applications
(16时56分15秒) is__: If more than one product or no product is found, you will see a selection box.
(16时56分15秒) Gallomimia: and then several listed by version/milestone in a shared folder for other users to access
(16时56分28秒) Gallomimia: that's cool. i'm interested to see how long that script takes to execute
(16时57分17秒) Gallomimia: i do have several 3.2 RC's on my system
(16时57分19秒) Gallomimia: or... do i
(16时57分23秒) is__: I will ask our program manager, if ooo dev language packs are already available. Or maybe you can look for them.
(16时57分54秒) is__: OOoDev Language Packs find only installed OOoDev products, I suppose.
(16时58分05秒) Gallomimia: 3.2.0 m2
(16时58分10秒) Gallomimia: so it's a few weeks old
(16时58分25秒) Gallomimia: yes. i'm having trouble keeping a focus on my OOo involvement. real life :/
(17时00分23秒) Gallomimia: yep. no script on that package
(17时00分42秒) Gallomimia: okay. i eagerly await your work
(17时01分22秒) is__: I will take a look at the current status of OOo LanguagePack for Mac. I can tell you next week.
(17时01分32秒) is__: Anything more for today?
(17时01分46秒) _ch_: is: not from me.
(17时03分22秒) Gallomimia: it was a pleasure discussing with you
(17时03分34秒) Gallomimia: alas, it is now 1am and i must sleep
(17时03分57秒) is__: thany you, for us it always very nice to get community feedback :-)
(17时04分24秒) is__: Then I would say good night and good evening. See you next week again.
(17时05分55秒) _ch_: See you then.
(17时14分57秒) is__ 离开了聊天室("Leaving")。