Difference between revisions of "Talk:Calc/Drafts/Issue 33851"

Revision as of 17:07, 18 January 2007

Fill series

It looks fairly sensible to me so far.

On the fill series part (the last bit on the page at the time of writing.), I think option 2 is most logical. I think disabling series fill is a cop out! If you go with option 2 then you can still achieve the effect of option 1 through other means (fill the visible cells with a particular value, eg. "fred", then sort the sheet so all your freds are together in a contiguous range, then fill unfiltered, as normal) whereas if you went for option 1, you cannot really achieve the effect of option 2. --Peopleandplanet.org 18:39, 27 November 2006 (CET)

Yet I don't know if it really makes sense to fill a series into a filtered view at all. What would it be good for? Any use case? --erAck 15:06, 29 November 2006 (CET)

For first, I appreciate the idea to discuss about this issue because is important that OOo will become as users "would like".

About the "fill series" I think that is better to permit the 2 option (ask to the user what he want).

So I think that in the fill series option one can activate the option to fill only visible cells, or to fill all cells. By default I think the best is to fill only visible cells (at least one do not loss data without notice). Actually OOo fill all cells even if they are not visible, and this can be a data loss (at least for me before to known this issue). Now use filter only when there isn't another way.

Bye
Ambrogio
--Delorea 22:00, 27 November 2006 (CET)

I don't think we should have yet another radio button in the dialog for that. If a series should be filled into the entire area one can always do that in an unfiltered view. --erAck 15:06, 29 November 2006 (CET)

Agree with ErAck. Hidden cells should 'never' be overwritten. I think there could be merit in asking the user how s/he wants the series to be calculated for the visible cells filling, between the options 1, 2. As I said above, I'd be happy with it just doing (2), but I concede that it's a rare thing to do anyway, and so presenting the user with the option might be less confusing and more useful. Peopleandplanet.org 15:16, 29 November 2006 (CET)

"filtered/non-filtered range" ?

Is it just the other way to describe "hidden/visible cells"?

Yes. If it's too confusing we can change wording. --erAck 13:35, 3 January 2007 (CET)

Please, do change the wording. [user:kpalagin, 9:11 (CET) 5 January 2007]

COPY-then-PASTE

This discussion deals with the following scenario:

• somebody applies a filter to a spreadsheet
• then he copies the results
• and then he uses paste to paste the copied results into a new spreadsheet
• => this was actually the purpose of the copy operation

There is a formidable problem to this scenario. Lets consider the following spreadsheet:

Row:= Value    Actual Value
A1: = 0           0
A2: = 1           1
A3: = A1 + A2     1
A4: = A2 + A3     2
A5: = A3 + A4     3
... = ...
A9: = A7 + A8     21

• now consider we filter some values out (e.g. we take only odd numbers)
• copy those cells (A2, A3, A5, A6, A8 and A9)
• and decide to paste them in a new spreadsheet
• IF we do NOT paste them as value, then the formula MUST be adapted:

(A2) = 1
(A3) = $sheet_$A$1 + (A2) # (A2) has been copied, so it is OK to use this new (A2)
(A5) = (A3) + $sheet_$A$4
 ...
(A9) = $sheet_$A$7 + (A8)

This was just a simple formula. Consider that there are far more complex formulas, so Calc MUST be able to adjust all these formulas. I believe, this is a daunting task. A very nice workaround is presented next, see paragraphs on Paste Reference and Paste Hardlink.

Paste Options

Paste as Value

• exactly what it says: evaluate potential formulas and paste only the value

Paste as Reference

• paste a reference to the original formula
  • e.g. (in new cell): '=$sheet$original cell'
  • this way, NO formula needs to be updated

Paste as Original Content

• needs some very intelligent processing of formulas
• this will be in general very difficult, see the scenario at the beginning of this section

Paste as Hard Link

• see issue 66817 for Hard Links (http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=66817)
  • Hard Links are NOT yet implemented in Calc
  • are more powerful then simple references (see discussion for that issue)
  • they would permit propagation of any changes back to the original cell

-- Discoleo 01:19, 12 January 2007 (CET)

All these PASTE options are unrelated to the original issue and only add more problems. I actually tend to remove that section completely to avoid confusion. Could we please focus on solving the original issue? Thanks. It also doesn't make sense to introduce an artificial = Talk = heading and promote one's own sections to H1 level, the page's title already serves well as it's header and always has the H1 attributes, sections should start with level 2. And it is also good habit to sign one's contributions to talk pages. --erAck 17:36, 9 January 2007 (CET)

I meant COPY-then-PASTE, so they DO relate to the original problem. I have tried to give now a better explanation (see first paragraph for COPY-then-PASTE). Unfortunately, the current handling of formulas is very problematic and I do NOT see any easy solution, so the ideas presented above should be seriously taken into consideration, as they allow for a very nice workaround. -- Discoleo 01:19, 12 January 2007 (CET)

Hidden vs Filtered-out

We seem to be concentrating on filtering scenario, but this is not the only way to hide rows/columns. Does our discussion apply to all hiding scenarios? --Kpalagin 16:28, 15 January 2007 (CET)

I believe we must find a common handling for filtered and by any other way hidden contents. Currently I can't see any reason to handle those 2 aspects in a different way, but may be someone will find a scenario in what that might be useful? Currently it seems we should differ between visible and invisible, however that invisibility has appeared. -- Rainer Bielefeld - ✉ 12:06, 16 January 2007 (CET)

greater complexity

I believe, there should be a common handling for all hidden content, however, I might diverge slighlty from the previous posts:

• display warning when operation is to be performed on hidden content (NO disagreement)
• allow user to choose:
  • perform selected operation:
    • only on visible content
    • on hidden content, too (this diverges from the views of other users)
• REASON:
  • sometimes I hide some columns in order to have 2 distant columns visible simultaneusly, so I can select a record based on data in both these distant columns
  • when I copy such rows, I want to have (almost always) ALL columns copied (including the non-visible ones, as formulas might be dependent on them)
  • this is probably less so the case when filtering out rows (BUT I hide out mostly colums)

- Discoleo 20:05, 16 January 2007 (CET)