Renaissance:Status Meetings:2009-05-18

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Meeting Details

  • 2009-05-18, 4:00 PM CET
  • IRC details: irc.freenode.net #ux.openoffice.org

In Attendance

  • Andreas Bartel (IRC: Andreas)
  • Elizabeth Matthis (IRC: lizm)
  • Frank Loehmann
  • Christoph Lukasiak
  • aknoxy
  • taiebot65

Agenda Items

  • Review of old action items
  • Round Table

Action Items

Date Description Owner Status
2009-01-19/4 Compatitive Analysis Frank Stalled

Comments on Action Items

- no update today

Round Table

IRC Log

== IRC Log ==
[16:01] Andreas: hi everyone. i am back from berlin.
[16:01] aknoxy: How was it?
[16:01] Andreas: really great
[16:01] Andreas: i learned so much and met so many creative people
[16:02] Andreas: if anyone has the chance to got to workshop by Adaptive Path, then do it!
[16:02] Andreas: martin is not able to join today
[16:04] Andreas: ok, let's sum up what has happed so far
[16:04] Andreas: by way, do we have any action items?
[16:04] Andreas: don't think so
[16:05] FrankL hat den Chatroom betreten.
[16:05] Andreas: so, one week has passed and we have ~16 proposals
[16:05] aknoxy: Exciting
[16:06] Andreas: I am wondering how the feedback/refinement cycle is going
[16:06] Andreas: anyone with experiences so far?
[16:07] aknoxy: I know that the command hierarchy for the flux proposal needs to flushed out. I've noticed that many groups skipped over this (or barely touched on this) as well.
[16:07] Andreas: want do you mean by command hierarchy?
[16:08] aknoxy: File > Insert > Image > From file...
[16:08] lizm: what do you mean by flushed
[16:08] Andreas: the actual content?
[16:08] aknoxy: things like that
[16:08] Andreas: ok
[16:08] aknoxy: flushed out ~> needs to be expanded upon still
[16:09] Andreas: that is actually a hard one I think since we currently do not have any task priorities or guidelines which can help us making correct decisions
[16:09] lizm: ah, I'd say "fleshed out". I understand know though
[16:09] lizm: "know->now"
[16:10] Andreas: any more feedback?
[16:11] Andreas: however, we still have some days to go before the deadline.
[16:12] lizm: What will happen after the 25th?
[16:13] lizm: BTW I'll be in America by then  Anybody live near Connecticut?
[16:13] clu_sun: my grandma 
[16:14] Andreas: we'll start the refinement. That means that we will look at everything we have and try out different combinations, compare to the design goals we've set up. things we will not be able to judge will probably be prototyped to collect feedback
[16:14] lizm: Yes, I'll have to visit her 
[16:14] aknoxy: I had a question on implementation; Since all of these proposals don't add new functionality, they just change the look and organization, is there any reason we can't offer multiple proposals as "layouts" ?
[16:15] Andreas: what do you mean by offer?
[16:15] aknoxy: Have a button at the top right that you click, it brings up a dialogue box on different layouts you can choose from
[16:16] lizm: I get it, like skins, but layout
[16:16] aknoxy: Kind of like css to html
[16:16] Andreas: well, i guess its way too early to think about that solution now. we need to figure out what works at all first before we start thinking about implementation details
[16:17] Andreas: ... and remember, options/choice always adds a bit to complexity
[16:18] lizm: and maybe bulk to code?
[16:19] clu_sun: .. but opens a lot of possibilities as well
[16:19] lizm: the performance project people are cutting out all code to make OOo faster. They's have a cow if we slow it down again 
[16:19] aknoxy: true, but if we can offer that accessibility to customizing the layout we can tap into the greater resource of graphical artists out there that want to design an interface
[16:19] aknoxy: hmm
[16:19] lizm: I meant: All code that is possible to cut out/rewrite, shorten, etc
[16:20] FrankL: But makes it harder to support people. Most users use the software as it is.
[16:20] aknoxy: Think like css and html, if we separated the look and hierarchy from the functions and commands we wouldn't be adding too much bulk.
[16:20] lizm: Oh yes, the documentation wouldn't have images that match all layouts. Too much overhead.
[16:21] aknoxy: @ FrankL: I think further development on selecting useful functionality of proposals could go into whatever the default layout is.
[16:22] aknoxy: @ Lizm: If we assume that the majority will use the default template we can let the designers for the other "skin" create their back up documentation (a hierarchy list of commands, so the user knows how to access specific commands)
[16:22] aknoxy: and we document the default template
[16:23] taiebot65 hat den Chatroom betreten.
[16:25] Vince42 hat den Chatroom verlassen. (Connection timed out)
[16:25] lizm: I love it when other people offer to do work  so of course I think that the designers writing their own documentation is good, but I think we'd better look at a true solution for the majority first and hold off on the idea of "take your pick" becaseu it will not be a solution for the majority, I don't think.
[16:27] Andreas: i think we should take the time we have and explore as many ideas as possible. the time for refinement and details will come soon enough
[16:27] Andreas: however, we should keep in mind that WE ARE NOT THE TARGET AUDIENCE 
[16:27] lizm: true so true
[16:28] aknoxy: I agree that we need a strong default template, but how many people theme firefox? or change the default background on their desktop? I don't know a single person that does not (and not just my techie friends).
[16:28] linuxtogo hat den Chatroom betreten.
[16:28] taiebot65: "hello all" Who is our target audience?
[16:28] lizm: I use only the defaults  You know me. Sorry to mess up your statistics
[16:29] aknoxy: @taiebot65 not lizm
[16:29] aknoxy:
[16:29] Andreas: currently it's Joe Average, he's 45 years old, lives in the US, is not a developer and just uses the basics of OpenOffice.org
[16:30] Andreas: he embraces simplicity, and wonders why basics tasks have to be that hard to accomplish with Impress
[16:30] aknoxy: Did he use MS Office 03 first?
[16:30] Andreas: he uses MSO in parallel to OpenOffice
[16:30] Andreas: since a lot of files he receives from friends are MS files
[16:31] taiebot65: As i said in my previous email my only concern about design for me is animation...
[16:31] Andreas: you are not the only one who has this concern
[16:31] taiebot65: Both in Impress and power point this is a nightmare...
[16:32] Andreas: totally agreed
[16:33] aknoxy: @taiebot65 Do you think the current tool sets in Impress/PP are adequate and just poorly laid out, or that the functionality and processes to use them are inadequate?
[16:33] lizm: glad to have you keeping an eye on animation, Thibaut. Did you make comments on this in the proposals? (sorry I'm not uptodate on the comments there yet)
[16:34] taiebot65: The functions are great.... but you spend so much time to achieve what you want.
[16:34] Andreas: you pretty much reflect the comments that were made by impress users is all our surveys
[16:34] aknoxy: @taiebot65 so there needs to be more options that can be altered, or you want to change the layout/process to achieve the desired animation?
[16:34] taiebot65: i do not know if you tried to animate a photo  slide in impress..
[16:35] taiebot65: this is not possiible without ten hours of practice...
[16:35] lizm: ouch
[16:37] Andreas: ok. do we have anything else on our agenda today?
[16:38] lizm: not from me
[16:38] taiebot65: i think the layout of animations in slide  should be redesign for me that's all..
[16:39] aknoxy: Should we come up with some kind of plan to analyze the different features of the proposals?
[16:39] aknoxy: or compile them?
[16:40] FrankL: I think we need some time to go through all the proposals until next Monday.
[16:41] lizm: Yes, FL. I haven't found the time yet, myself, so I say we take this pt on the agenda for next week
[16:42] FrankL: Thursday is a public holiday in Germany so many people will be on vacation on Friday too.
[16:42] lizm: good idea aknoxy. Andreas, are you updating the Agenda/Action Items for this meeting?
[16:42] lizm: BTW, I've gotta run. Pick up my little boy from kindergarten. See you all soon
[16:42] aknoxy: ciao
[16:44] FrankL: Bye
== IRC Log ==
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