Difference between revisions of "Performance/Meetings/2009 02"

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= 2009/02/05 =
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= 2009/02/13 =
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{| class="prettytable"
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/mhu,isnick mhu]>
 +
| LiHeng: Hi; yes lets start the discussion
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/frankl,isnick frankl]>
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| yugq: O.K. now I see the mail. Had too many mails these days due to new OOo user survey preparance.
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/yugq,isnick yugq]>
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| frankl, it doesn't matter!
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki>|<--</nowiki>
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| liangjunzeng has left freenode ("Leaving.")
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|-
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|
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| -->|
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| liangjun (n=zenglj_@218.249.75.106) has joined [irc://freenode/%23oooperformance #oooperformance]
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
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| As odf-mib say, we need to create a list in the WIKI, and display our works about performance
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|-
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|
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| -->|
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| zhangyuwei (n=zhangyw@218.249.75.106) has joined [irc://freenode/%23oooperformance #oooperformance]
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/erAck,isnick erAck]>
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| a list of performance CWSs with short (!) description is certainly good, but I'm not a friend of duplicating information that is available by just a click on a linkt to EIS.
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
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| Thorsten Bosbach (TBO) recently published the results and some background information at [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Performance/Startup/Linux http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Performance/Startup/Linux]
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/mhu,isnick mhu]>
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| Maybe, in EIS you dont see what is done why and other interesting topics that can better be explained in a wiki ?
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
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| I would prefer to have most of the info in Wiki, not all details in EIS...
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
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| erAck:The list is not only for CWSs and some jobs must to do, that can help us to coordinate our work, to prevent some counteraction of works
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
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| EIS for CWS/Issue tracking, Wiki for everything else
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
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| +1 :)
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/arwe,isnick arwe]>
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| It's always possibe to add links to OOO issues to the wiki entreis where needed, to link to the technical descriptions
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/erAck,isnick erAck]>
 +
| additional information in the wiki is fine, just copying info from EIS such as CWS members IMHO isn't necessary.
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/arwe,isnick arwe]>
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| So, the Wiki should contain overview and concept informations
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/mhu,isnick mhu]>
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| erAck: yes, duplication is not necessary, I guess
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
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| erAck:Sure!
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
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| i would like to see for the single efforts some information like the owner of the effort, next action items, external dependencies
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
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| and how to get more detailed information like documentation, data, EIS data and so on
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
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| in the moment it's almost impossible to see and research within 5 minutes what the status of the performance efforts are
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
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| +1
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/odf-mib,isnick odf-mib]>
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| I think we should start with something simple. If that does not work, we may extend this later.
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/odf-mib,isnick odf-mib]>
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| So, why not just start with a list of the CWSs, the owners of the CWSs, and short description.
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
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| odf-mib: +1, We would create a list that detail the mainly action of a improving jobs and expectation of that work
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
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| I would prefer a different approach
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/odf-mib,isnick odf-mib]>
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| For items where we do not have a CWS so far, we may at least add the owner and a description.
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
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| define goals -> assign people (make groups) -> assign CWS to groups#
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
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| Each group to work on *one* CWS with *one* goal at a time
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
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| odf-mib:The simple list can be created, and every item also can be a entry of exposition ..
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
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| odf-mib: We can start with simple list
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| :)
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
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| In the past I used this for coordination:
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
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| [http://tools.openoffice.org/performance/performance-activities-overview.html http://tools.openoffice.org/performance/performance-activities-overview.html]
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
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| Of course internally I had a column with assigned people.
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| Nowadays we could have such data on a public list too
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
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| Malte: Thank you
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki>* </nowiki>[irc://freenode/mhu,isnick mhu]
 +
| also thinks that we should keep it simple as possible, but no simpler: an item in the should explain what is done, and what we expect it will improve.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| +1
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/odf-mib,isnick odf-mib]>
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| Malte: +1, if we add the CWS names and owners
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
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| I will clean up the list
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
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| Before that, I will also talk to different people involved to check status
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
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| One question: HTML or Wiki?
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
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| Wiki is a nightmare with tables :(
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/yugq,isnick yugq]>
 +
| put on wiki should be better, the list is clearer than EIS
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
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| Wiki I think
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
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| If the initial table is in a good state, maintaining it in Wiki might be OK...
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
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| I will do that next week
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/arwe,isnick arwe]>
 +
| Wiki is much easier to work with, You need no editing software
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/odf-mib,isnick odf-mib]>
 +
| Malte: What do you mean by "clean up"? Do you want to keep the content of the list?
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
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| all content that is still valid - yes of course
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/mhu,isnick mhu]>
 +
| Malte: how about Weblog Publisher to maintain the table in the wiki ?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/yugq,isnick yugq]>
 +
| Malte, use Sun-Wiki-Publisher extension of OOo
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
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| We can arrage the final table in HTML in project page and link to WIKI Page
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| Weblog Publisher for Wiki?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/mhu,isnick mhu]>
 +
| yugq: :-)
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| Will give it a try...
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| I guess with that list we start with a good overview of what's going on.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| What about config mgr discussion now?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
 +
| Malte: I find your list quite impressive, but it's not clear to me, what our main priorities should be ?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| Malte: Yuguoqiang can maintain works in RedFlag first in WIKI, and mail to you, we discuss about the init version
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| We will give the items some different priorities
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| They will come from UX and other...
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
 +
| _Nesshof_1: This is one of the reasons why i'm not happy with Malte's approach
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/odf-mib,isnick odf-mib]>
 +
| Malte: As for load/save, we probably need to make a new analysis before we can know whether any item on the list is still a reasonable action.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| odf-mib: yes, that's why I said "clean-up"
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
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| skotti: ?
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/odf-mib,isnick odf-mib]>
 +
| skotti: We must differ between a list like Malte's, and its content.
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
 +
| I also would like to see which items deliver in what performance goals, e.g. startup performance, load/save
 +
 
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|-
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|
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| -->|
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| xiuzhi (n=xiuzhich@218.249.75.106) has joined [irc://freenode/%23oooperformance #oooperformance]
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|-
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|
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| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/odf-mib,isnick odf-mib]>
 +
| The structure of the list is okay for me, but I would start with a fresh content.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
 +
| odf-mib: Maybe, i'll see how it looks and comment on it then
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| _Nesshof_1: That's obvious... (and already on the list)
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
 +
| Malte: for some of the items this is obvoius, for other not
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| The first version doesn't have to be "done in stone"
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
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| Let's simpy start, and discuss afterwards
 +
 
 +
|-
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|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
 +
| what are our priorities e.g. rendering compared to starup ?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
 +
| odf-mib, Malte: My primary concern is to minimize the entry barrier for my brain and other people: If you have a group working on one item, it should be fairly easy to join in. But - depending on the list you proposed it can work as well
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| my: startup.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| But as I saif: UX will come up with priorities
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| Malte: Only need add team members:)
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| yes :)
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| My internal list has it
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| need to include redoffice now
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/mhu,isnick mhu]>
 +
| Martin: Malte's list is historic and serves on as a starting point. This new project starts new, and concentrates first on startup and doc load/save.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| Malte:Okay, Yuguoqiang will send some detail to you
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><Malte></nowiki>
 +
| Great, thanks! :)
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/erAck,isnick erAck]>
 +
| my suggestion is: 2-3 people work on startup, create reproducible measurements, workout approaches such as combining libraries and factoring out code that is not needed during startup, and try them in a CWS.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/mhu,isnick mhu]>
 +
| I think, configmgr alone justifies the work of 2-3 people...
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| erAck: For easily to benchmark, we can create to try them to several CWS
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/cd_oo,isnick cd_oo]>
 +
| This sounds like a very good approach to me. Exactly what I am trying to do.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
 +
| erAck: after the measurment phase we should have to identify the most important area for improvement, dettermine the efforts and come than to a list, what we want to start with
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/erAck,isnick erAck]>
 +
| _Nesshof_1: of course.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| So we can go next, to list some works and ideas for STARTUP
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/cd_oo,isnick cd_oo]>
 +
| I think we need a solid analysis for the startup process before we should think about ideas. Ideas must be based on pure data and from my point of view we have not enough data.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/erAck,isnick erAck]>
 +
| I'm also quite sure that during startup code is called for fucntionality that isn't needed for startup. This needs evaluation in callgrind/kcachegrind or similar.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
 +
| cd_oo: +1000
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
 +
| cd_oo: you already take care of this ?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/mhu,isnick mhu]>
 +
| yes, I think Carsten (cd_oo) is right.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| We do some about Configmgr and integration of libraries in Beijing
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/erAck,isnick erAck]>
 +
| btw, has anyone tried APPR in the last years?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
 +
| APPR?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/erAck,isnick erAck]>
 +
| [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/APPR http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/APPR]
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/yugq,isnick yugq]>
 +
| I think it will be worth to do that merging dynamic library which provide UNO services.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| cd_oo: very agreed
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/cd_oo,isnick cd_oo]>
 +
| Yes, I try to make a solid analysis to provide as much data as possible. This must be the base for a discussion what to do next.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
 +
| what aspects do you try to analyse beside loading time of libs ?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
 +
| also unused code ?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
 +
| what else do we need to look at for an analysis ?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/cd_oo,isnick cd_oo]>
 +
| Currently I am focusing on file I/O during startup (cold and warm start) which include loading time of libs and data files.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
 +
| cd_oo: Do unnecessary string conversions (8 bit -> unicode) have any considerable performance impact?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| cd_oo:We need data from different conditions and trace/analysis in order to create appropriate benchmark
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
 +
| And we need data for all platforms to ensure we do not introduce regressions to the other platforms when improving one...
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/frankl,isnick frankl]>
 +
| I want to add something to the valid “we need data” request from cd_oo.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/frankl,isnick frankl]>
 +
| The OOo Renaissance team ([http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Renaissance http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Renaissance]) is currently working on a new OOo User Survey.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/cd_oo,isnick cd_oo]>
 +
| We need to look at the code/data which is processed during startup. I would like to see a list of classes and data we use. Then we can look into details why something happens. That's another big problem, nobody knows why we do certain things during startup.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/frankl,isnick frankl]>
 +
| This new survey is about what our users do with the OOo and how satisfied they are working with the software. This new survey also has a part about performance. We want to know how our users feel about OOo's current performance against the overall performance of their system. Furthermore we want to know on what computer systems (PC, Notebook, Netbook, etc.) do our users use OOo most of their time.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/frankl,isnick frankl]>
 +
| Please have a look at the final draft of the survey here:
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/frankl,isnick frankl]>
 +
| [http://surveys.services.openoffice.org/surveys/index.php?sid=69531&lang=en http://surveys.services.openoffice.org/surveys/index.php?sid=69531&lang=en]
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/frankl,isnick frankl]>
 +
| We plan to go live with this survey by next week. I hope to have first result within 2-3 weeks.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/erAck,isnick erAck]>
 +
| frankl: I don't think we'll need a survey to tell us that users aren't satisfied with performance ;-) Use of systems may be interesting data.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/cd_oo,isnick cd_oo]>
 +
| On my test platform, a 3 year old notebook, OpenOffice.org needs about 35 seconds to start a Writer (cold start).
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
 +
| frankl: Is there a way to retrieve information about performance from the usage tracking stuff?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/frankl,isnick frankl]>
 +
| erAck: How do you want to know what our users really bothers?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
 +
| erAck: but it can tell what we should focus on
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
 +
| especially if we look on file import export
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/_Nesshof_1,isnick _Nesshof_1]>
 +
| what do our users think wehre we need the most improvement
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/arwe,isnick arwe]>
 +
| erAck: Users can show performance problems we are not even aware of (and which may be low hanging fruits, too)
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
 +
| Probably just: Which functionality is used most
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/frankl,isnick frankl]>
 +
| and we can see changes in performance rating from version to version.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/erAck,isnick erAck]>
 +
| frankl: we do have 3 points we hear/read everywhere: startup,load,save
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| cd_oo: mayde longer :(
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/arwe,isnick arwe]>
 +
| frankl: We also have complaints about OOo blocking during AutoSafe. There may be more like that, too.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
 +
| erAck: But we need to know about how much e.g. the mail-merge wizard is used. It's ridiculously slow. But if nobody uses it... or maybe that's the reason why nobody uses it ....
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/mhu,isnick mhu]>
 +
| arwe: yes, and that is "doc save", which is already on the list
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/odf-mib,isnick odf-mib]>
 +
| arwe: This is like save. If we are fast enough there, then this is not an issue any longer:-)
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/xiuzhi,isnick xiuzhi]>
 +
| frankl: the svrvey looks very good. I will ask more Chinese end-user to join it.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
 +
| Do we care for export formats? Binary filters can be annoying as well.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/frankl,isnick frankl]>
 +
| erAck:I have not asked that because I am not sure that our users know wat AutoSave is.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/arwe,isnick arwe]>
 +
| odf-mib: A general solution here (prob. with multithreading) will be superior, independent from times (will we make such fast progesses...?)
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/frankl,isnick frankl]>
 +
| xiuzhi: Maybe we have the opportunity to translate it to Chinese? The tooling does support it.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/xiuzhi,isnick xiuzhi]>
 +
| frank: agree.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| ALL: Time up, today, some details we can discuss them in mailing list :)
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/frankl,isnick frankl]>
 +
| xiuzhi: Do you have resources to do that? Please send me an email I will create an account.
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/skotti,isnick skotti]>
 +
| Can we get a list of action items and due dates?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| frankl: I have resoucr to do :)
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/frankl,isnick frankl]>
 +
| :-) Good news!
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/xiuzhi,isnick xiuzhi]>
 +
| frankl: the guys from zh_CN team can do that
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/xiuzhi,isnick xiuzhi]>
 +
| LiHeng: right?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| xiuzhi: you mean chenglin's people?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><--|</nowiki>
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| yugq has left [irc://freenode/%23oooperformance #oooperformance]
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/xiuzhi,isnick xiuzhi]>
 +
| LiHeng:yes
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/frankl,isnick frankl]>
 +
| Please forward them my email address: [mailto:frank.loehmann@sun.com frank.loehmann@sun.com]
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| frankl: Okay!
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/xiuzhi,isnick xiuzhi]>
 +
| LiHeng: what do you think about my idea?
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/mhu,isnick mhu]>
 +
| okay, bye for today; have a nice weekend...
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
| <nowiki><</nowiki>[irc://freenode/LiHeng,isnick LiHeng]>
 +
| xiuzhi: sure! And I can provide some others, I think
 +
 
 +
|}
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
= 2009/02/06 =
  
 
<nowiki>#oooperformance</nowiki>
 
<nowiki>#oooperformance</nowiki>

Revision as of 09:32, 13 February 2009

2009/02/13

<mhu> LiHeng: Hi; yes lets start the discussion
<frankl> yugq: O.K. now I see the mail. Had too many mails these days due to new OOo user survey preparance.
<yugq> frankl, it doesn't matter!
|<-- liangjunzeng has left freenode ("Leaving.")
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<LiHeng> As odf-mib say, we need to create a list in the WIKI, and display our works about performance
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<erAck> a list of performance CWSs with short (!) description is certainly good, but I'm not a friend of duplicating information that is available by just a click on a linkt to EIS.
<skotti> Thorsten Bosbach (TBO) recently published the results and some background information at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Performance/Startup/Linux
<mhu> Maybe, in EIS you dont see what is done why and other interesting topics that can better be explained in a wiki ?
<Malte> I would prefer to have most of the info in Wiki, not all details in EIS...
<LiHeng> erAck:The list is not only for CWSs and some jobs must to do, that can help us to coordinate our work, to prevent some counteraction of works
<skotti> EIS for CWS/Issue tracking, Wiki for everything else
<Malte> +1 :)
<arwe> It's always possibe to add links to OOO issues to the wiki entreis where needed, to link to the technical descriptions
<erAck> additional information in the wiki is fine, just copying info from EIS such as CWS members IMHO isn't necessary.
<arwe> So, the Wiki should contain overview and concept informations
<mhu> erAck: yes, duplication is not necessary, I guess
<LiHeng> erAck:Sure!
<_Nesshof_1> i would like to see for the single efforts some information like the owner of the effort, next action items, external dependencies
<_Nesshof_1> and how to get more detailed information like documentation, data, EIS data and so on
<_Nesshof_1> in the moment it's almost impossible to see and research within 5 minutes what the status of the performance efforts are
<skotti> +1
<odf-mib> I think we should start with something simple. If that does not work, we may extend this later.
<odf-mib> So, why not just start with a list of the CWSs, the owners of the CWSs, and short description.
<LiHeng> odf-mib: +1, We would create a list that detail the mainly action of a improving jobs and expectation of that work
<skotti> I would prefer a different approach
<odf-mib> For items where we do not have a CWS so far, we may at least add the owner and a description.
<skotti> define goals -> assign people (make groups) -> assign CWS to groups#
<skotti> Each group to work on *one* CWS with *one* goal at a time
<LiHeng> odf-mib:The simple list can be created, and every item also can be a entry of exposition ..
<LiHeng> odf-mib: We can start with simple list
<LiHeng>  :)
<Malte> In the past I used this for coordination:
<Malte> http://tools.openoffice.org/performance/performance-activities-overview.html
<Malte> Of course internally I had a column with assigned people.
<Malte> Nowadays we could have such data on a public list too
<LiHeng> Malte: Thank you
* mhu also thinks that we should keep it simple as possible, but no simpler: an item in the should explain what is done, and what we expect it will improve.
<LiHeng> +1
<odf-mib> Malte: +1, if we add the CWS names and owners
<Malte> I will clean up the list
<Malte> Before that, I will also talk to different people involved to check status
<Malte> One question: HTML or Wiki?
<Malte> Wiki is a nightmare with tables :(
<yugq> put on wiki should be better, the list is clearer than EIS
<LiHeng> Wiki I think
<Malte> If the initial table is in a good state, maintaining it in Wiki might be OK...
<Malte> I will do that next week
<arwe> Wiki is much easier to work with, You need no editing software
<odf-mib> Malte: What do you mean by "clean up"? Do you want to keep the content of the list?
<Malte> all content that is still valid - yes of course
<mhu> Malte: how about Weblog Publisher to maintain the table in the wiki ?
<yugq> Malte, use Sun-Wiki-Publisher extension of OOo
<LiHeng> We can arrage the final table in HTML in project page and link to WIKI Page
<Malte> Weblog Publisher for Wiki?
<mhu> yugq: :-)
<Malte> Will give it a try...
<Malte> I guess with that list we start with a good overview of what's going on.
<Malte> What about config mgr discussion now?
<_Nesshof_1> Malte: I find your list quite impressive, but it's not clear to me, what our main priorities should be ?
<LiHeng> Malte: Yuguoqiang can maintain works in RedFlag first in WIKI, and mail to you, we discuss about the init version
<Malte> We will give the items some different priorities
<Malte> They will come from UX and other...
<skotti> _Nesshof_1: This is one of the reasons why i'm not happy with Malte's approach
<odf-mib> Malte: As for load/save, we probably need to make a new analysis before we can know whether any item on the list is still a reasonable action.
<Malte> odf-mib: yes, that's why I said "clean-up"
<Malte> skotti: ?
<odf-mib> skotti: We must differ between a list like Malte's, and its content.
<_Nesshof_1> I also would like to see which items deliver in what performance goals, e.g. startup performance, load/save
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<odf-mib> The structure of the list is okay for me, but I would start with a fresh content.
<skotti> odf-mib: Maybe, i'll see how it looks and comment on it then
<Malte> _Nesshof_1: That's obvious... (and already on the list)
<_Nesshof_1> Malte: for some of the items this is obvoius, for other not
<Malte> The first version doesn't have to be "done in stone"
<Malte> Let's simpy start, and discuss afterwards
<_Nesshof_1> what are our priorities e.g. rendering compared to starup ?
<skotti> odf-mib, Malte: My primary concern is to minimize the entry barrier for my brain and other people: If you have a group working on one item, it should be fairly easy to join in. But - depending on the list you proposed it can work as well
<Malte> my: startup.
<Malte> But as I saif: UX will come up with priorities
<LiHeng> Malte: Only need add team members:)
<Malte> yes :)
<Malte> My internal list has it
<Malte> need to include redoffice now
<mhu> Martin: Malte's list is historic and serves on as a starting point. This new project starts new, and concentrates first on startup and doc load/save.
<LiHeng> Malte:Okay, Yuguoqiang will send some detail to you
<Malte> Great, thanks! :)
<erAck> my suggestion is: 2-3 people work on startup, create reproducible measurements, workout approaches such as combining libraries and factoring out code that is not needed during startup, and try them in a CWS.
<mhu> I think, configmgr alone justifies the work of 2-3 people...
<LiHeng> erAck: For easily to benchmark, we can create to try them to several CWS
<cd_oo> This sounds like a very good approach to me. Exactly what I am trying to do.
<_Nesshof_1> erAck: after the measurment phase we should have to identify the most important area for improvement, dettermine the efforts and come than to a list, what we want to start with
<erAck> _Nesshof_1: of course.
<LiHeng> So we can go next, to list some works and ideas for STARTUP
<cd_oo> I think we need a solid analysis for the startup process before we should think about ideas. Ideas must be based on pure data and from my point of view we have not enough data.
<erAck> I'm also quite sure that during startup code is called for fucntionality that isn't needed for startup. This needs evaluation in callgrind/kcachegrind or similar.
<skotti> cd_oo: +1000
<_Nesshof_1> cd_oo: you already take care of this ?
<mhu> yes, I think Carsten (cd_oo) is right.
<LiHeng> We do some about Configmgr and integration of libraries in Beijing
<erAck> btw, has anyone tried APPR in the last years?
<skotti> APPR?
<erAck> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/APPR
<yugq> I think it will be worth to do that merging dynamic library which provide UNO services.
<LiHeng> cd_oo: very agreed
<cd_oo> Yes, I try to make a solid analysis to provide as much data as possible. This must be the base for a discussion what to do next.
<_Nesshof_1> what aspects do you try to analyse beside loading time of libs ?
<_Nesshof_1> also unused code ?
<_Nesshof_1> what else do we need to look at for an analysis ?
<cd_oo> Currently I am focusing on file I/O during startup (cold and warm start) which include loading time of libs and data files.
<skotti> cd_oo: Do unnecessary string conversions (8 bit -> unicode) have any considerable performance impact?
<LiHeng> cd_oo:We need data from different conditions and trace/analysis in order to create appropriate benchmark
<skotti> And we need data for all platforms to ensure we do not introduce regressions to the other platforms when improving one...
<frankl> I want to add something to the valid “we need data” request from cd_oo.
<frankl> The OOo Renaissance team (http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Renaissance) is currently working on a new OOo User Survey.
<cd_oo> We need to look at the code/data which is processed during startup. I would like to see a list of classes and data we use. Then we can look into details why something happens. That's another big problem, nobody knows why we do certain things during startup.
<frankl> This new survey is about what our users do with the OOo and how satisfied they are working with the software. This new survey also has a part about performance. We want to know how our users feel about OOo's current performance against the overall performance of their system. Furthermore we want to know on what computer systems (PC, Notebook, Netbook, etc.) do our users use OOo most of their time.
<frankl> Please have a look at the final draft of the survey here:
<frankl> http://surveys.services.openoffice.org/surveys/index.php?sid=69531&lang=en
<frankl> We plan to go live with this survey by next week. I hope to have first result within 2-3 weeks.
<erAck> frankl: I don't think we'll need a survey to tell us that users aren't satisfied with performance ;-) Use of systems may be interesting data.
<cd_oo> On my test platform, a 3 year old notebook, OpenOffice.org needs about 35 seconds to start a Writer (cold start).
<skotti> frankl: Is there a way to retrieve information about performance from the usage tracking stuff?
<frankl> erAck: How do you want to know what our users really bothers?
<_Nesshof_1> erAck: but it can tell what we should focus on
<_Nesshof_1> especially if we look on file import export
<_Nesshof_1> what do our users think wehre we need the most improvement
<arwe> erAck: Users can show performance problems we are not even aware of (and which may be low hanging fruits, too)
<skotti> Probably just: Which functionality is used most
<frankl> and we can see changes in performance rating from version to version.
<erAck> frankl: we do have 3 points we hear/read everywhere: startup,load,save
<LiHeng> cd_oo: mayde longer :(
<arwe> frankl: We also have complaints about OOo blocking during AutoSafe. There may be more like that, too.
<skotti> erAck: But we need to know about how much e.g. the mail-merge wizard is used. It's ridiculously slow. But if nobody uses it... or maybe that's the reason why nobody uses it ....
<mhu> arwe: yes, and that is "doc save", which is already on the list
<odf-mib> arwe: This is like save. If we are fast enough there, then this is not an issue any longer:-)
<xiuzhi> frankl: the svrvey looks very good. I will ask more Chinese end-user to join it.
<skotti> Do we care for export formats? Binary filters can be annoying as well.
<frankl> erAck:I have not asked that because I am not sure that our users know wat AutoSave is.
<arwe> odf-mib: A general solution here (prob. with multithreading) will be superior, independent from times (will we make such fast progesses...?)
<frankl> xiuzhi: Maybe we have the opportunity to translate it to Chinese? The tooling does support it.
<xiuzhi> frank: agree.
<LiHeng> ALL: Time up, today, some details we can discuss them in mailing list :)
<frankl> xiuzhi: Do you have resources to do that? Please send me an email I will create an account.
<skotti> Can we get a list of action items and due dates?
<LiHeng> frankl: I have resoucr to do :)
<frankl>  :-) Good news!
<xiuzhi> frankl: the guys from zh_CN team can do that
<xiuzhi> LiHeng: right?
<LiHeng> xiuzhi: you mean chenglin's people?
<--| yugq has left #oooperformance
<xiuzhi> LiHeng:yes
<frankl> Please forward them my email address: frank.loehmann@sun.com
<LiHeng> frankl: Okay!
<xiuzhi> LiHeng: what do you think about my idea?
<mhu> okay, bye for today; have a nice weekend...
<LiHeng> xiuzhi: sure! And I can provide some others, I think



2009/02/06

#oooperformance

[INFO] Channel view for “#oooperformance” opened.
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<xiuzhi> liheng: Happy Niu Year
<odf-mib> Hello everyone!
<frankloe> Hi, all!
<os_ooo> Hi all!
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<skotti> Hi all
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<Dieter_> Hi all :-)
<Dieter_> Malte can't attend our IRC today
<liheng> xiuzhi:Happy Niu Year, ;)
<liheng> Hi,ALL
<liheng> we all here, other people can't back in office
<liheng> Dieter_:can we start?
<Dieter_> yes, please
<arwe> Hi all and thanks. Willsomeone moderate or will we all throw in what we want
<skotti> We have no agenda, afaik
<skotti> so it's more like throwing in i guess
<Dieter_> liheng is project owner and will moderate this IRC
<liheng> Dieter_:Some new persons in our meet, do you think we need a interduce ?
<Dieter_> yes, let's start with a brief introduction
* skotti  : QA Engineer, Sun. Responsible for Automated testing of the framework component with current focus on test script performance
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<mhu> Hi all, sorry for being late (traffice jam :-) )
<liheng> skotti:welcome :)
<arwe> Developer, responsible for DrawingLayer, working inter-applicationwide (always incompatible from svx...)
* skotti  : I intend to do the performance measurements here at Sun
<xiuzhi> skotti:welcome
<skotti> xiuzhi: Thank you
<os_ooo> Hi, I'm Oliver Specht (os), working in the Writer team for ages and I'm now working especially on load/save performance issues.
<xiuzhi> os_ooo: Hi ,glad to see you here
<liheng> I'm LiHeng, from RedFlag 2000, worked on RedOffice(Based OOo) for 8 year, and also responsible for interoperability of RedOffice.
* skotti  : My OOo nick is 'jsk' and my real name is Joerg Skottke but please call me Skotti
<liheng> os_ooo:Welcome :)
<stephan_> And I'm Stephan Bergmann (sb), working on startup performance (after working on other parts of OOo for years :)
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<Dieter_> _Nesshof_1: Hi Martin, would you like to join the project?
<_Nesshof_1> Dieter_: I would like to offer my support as Program Manager, if wanted
<liheng> ALL:First I list some status of performance works in our side ...
<xiuzhi> _Nesshof_1: :)
<Dieter_> _Nesshof_1: yes, that's a good idea
<liheng> _Nesshof_1:Thank you, Martin.
<liheng> 1.Refactoring Configmgr: Clear some superfluous objects for improving speed of startup. And it can reduce 2's in current version of RedOffice ...
<liheng> 2.To collect test cases for measure OOo's performance
<liheng> 3.And to design and implement some specail tools for measuring of OOo performance
<liheng> Last:To compare performance value between OOo and the other offices.
<liheng> These are mainly works we do in RedOffice
<liheng> And we are analyzing performance of Load/Save of ODF.
<frankloe> Good! Are these results already visible at the OOo wiki?
<frankloe> I am asking because the new project home page is now online: http://performance.openoffice.org
<liheng> Some of Refactoring Configmgr is on wiki page
<liheng> frankloe:Yes, I saw it, Thank you very mach.
<stephan_> To work on startup performance, I am currently breaking down overall startup into its parts, to see where time is going. Concentrating on Linux for now, using a combination of callgrind and strace to better estimate true wall clock time. Will start to put my findings into the wiki beginning of next week.
<skotti> So i gather our first focus is on startup performance?
<mhu> stephan_: Carsten Driesner is following a similar approach (on Windows, though); maybe, you could coordinate your work / findings ?
<stephan_> skotti: No, I think we work on different parts in parallel (startup, appl. load/save).
<stephan_> mhu: Yes, thanks for pointing it out. I will contact him.
<mhu> okay, thanks.
<skotti> I would then suggest that we bring some overhead into play from the start ;-)
<mhu> skotti: "overhead" ?
<liheng> stephan_:We make some benchmark code for measuring startup in realtime, not in debug state. I mail them with first test report in next week.
<skotti> mhu: Yep!
<stephan_> liheng: great, thanks
<stephan_> skotti: what do you mean?
<skotti> I would like to have it documented in Wiki which parts we're working on and who is responsible
<skotti> Goal being that we can see what progress the single parts are making
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<mhu> at least, we should document enough od our work, so that we dont loose oversight (who is doing what)
<skotti> If we have enough workforce to address several areas at the same time we might head into chaos otherwise
<mhu> skotti: I am also here to help avoid some of that chaos :-)
* skotti would have preferred a single threaded approach: One area at a time
<skotti> mhu: I know. But i have a very simple brain. ;-)
<mhu>  :-)
<odf-mib> skotti: the web page and wiki are very new. We of cause plan to add documentation there. But that will take a few days.
<frankloe> If we have documented the current status of the project, we should announce the project officially to get some visibility on OOo and the press.
<odf-mib> frankloe: Yes, but let's have the documentation first.
<odf-mib> I think we are in the middle of a status check. Who's next?
<skotti> liheng: The list you posted: Which parts are planned, analysed and implemented?
<frankloe> odf-mib:Yes, the first impression always counts!
<liheng> frankloe:Yuguoqiang can help us to maintain Project page and WIKI page
<zhangyuwei> Excuse me, My name si Zhangyuwei, is a member of REDOffice2000. I'm working on loading/saving performance, and have done something about odf loading performance.
<frankloe> liheng:Sure!
<xiuzhi> zhangyuwei: you can discuss the issues with os_ooo. He focuses on load/save performance now
<odf-mib> xiuzhi: Several more people are working on load save performance, so please have any discussions on the mailing list
<liheng> frankloe:So, he will contact to you next week, and consult you :)
<xiuzhi> odf-mib: ok
<mhu> hi zhangyuwei, welcome.
<liheng> skotti:Yes,:) and create some specail tools
<frankloe> liheng:OK
<liheng> skotti: and we also make performance report for master builds
<zhangyuwei> os_ooo:I have done something about asynchronism loading file and imporved load performance.
<odf-mib> zhangyuwei: What did you do exactly?
<os_ooo> zhangyuwei: I want to make load/save process faster by changing the interfaces between xmloff and sw.
<skotti> liheng: Can i see the results of the performance reports? I've got something of that sort as well but i'm not at all happy with my approach
<zhangyuwei> I have finished asynchronism odp load
<liheng> skotti:Yes, I will publish them on project page or wiki
<skotti> liheng: Cool
<mhu> os_ooo: Oliver, similar to what SB said, could you start with improving the understanding of what exactly takes what time during loading documents ?
<skotti> liheng: I just applied for membership on the OOo performance pages, can you add me with a QA role
<skotti>  ?
<os_ooo> mhu: I will add some information to the wiki.
<mhu> os_ooo: okay, thanks.
<liheng> skotti:Sure
<odf-mib> All: I think we in general must provide more information on which area we are working, and must share results as soon as possible. Otherwise its difficult to coordinate things.
<odf-mib> zhangyuwei: In which CWS is the asynchronous load/save implemented.
<arwe> Good to hear that we will get some numbers; i would like to know which documents are used for measurements. Does anybody use documents form practice? I mean e.g. bugdocs from cases where users have reported that it is too slow?
<zhangyuwei> os_ooo:But I have some pr oblem about asynchronism load. slide sorter flush is monstrosity and slowly
<arwe> When we extract numbers from documents we make up ourselves, wnat willthe numbers represent (load/save of course, not startup)..?
<liheng> ALL:Sorry, we can focus on starpup and load performance, but, we must make sure for how to measure our works
<skotti> arwe: Yes and no. We can make up documents of our selves which include a defined feature set.
<xiuzhi> odf-mib: He did not create CWS until now .I will ask him to do that ASAP
<arwe> skotti: Do we have a collection of real world user documents with load/save performance issues?
<zhangyuwei> odf-mid: base on OOO3.0dev-m9
<odf-mib> arwe: Maybe we can have this discussion on the list?
<skotti> arwe: Yes, i think we have quite a repository. I'm taking this as action item for me: Find documents suited for performance measurement with bias towards real live scenarios
<arwe> skotti: Would it make sense to have a set of 'problematic' documents accessible over the Wiki-Page?
<skotti> arwe: I think so.
<arwe> skotti: If they are not confidential, please put them on the Wiki-pages.
<skotti> arwe: Yep.
<liheng> arwe:Yes we discuss it on the list, and we are collecting cases of performance now, but they are in Chinese
<arwe> Skotti: It will be interesting if the diverse measurements from diverse people will have comparable results with the same document set.
<arwe> This would be a good check if the measurements go in the correct direction...
<skotti> arwe: You won't get any dependable results unless you have a well defined test environment
<skotti> arwe: Or more correctly "comparable"
<arwe> skotti: Yes, but different measurements and methods should pont in the same direction when aplied to the same documents.
<arwe> skotti: Just a good test if the measurements give comparable results.
<skotti> arwe: Very likely
<liheng> ALL:I think we have a lot of things to do for peformance of OOo, but we can discuss them in list dev@performance.openoffice.org and select important things to disuss at IRC
* mhu thinks we could start with the idea that document load / save is generally a factor 10 too slow; then dependency on particular bugdoc documents becomes smaller ...
<skotti> liheng: +1
<arwe> skotti: I would be skeptical if my measurements with the same docs point in a completely different direction than someone else's...
<skotti> arwe: Yup, so would i
<mhu> liheng: yes, lets discuss most of this on the new mailing list.
<skotti> arwe: But i've seen it happen. Weird scenario, utterly unexpected
<liheng> ALL: So, I will post agenda of every IRC to mailing list, please you subscrib it ;)
<liheng> Time up, today,:) thank you and welcome to new Performance Project!
<mhu> liheng, xiuzhi: most of your teams are still not back from spring festival vacation ?
<xiuzhi> mhu: all of our members will be available next Monday
<liheng> Matthias:Someone has more vacation and someone can't get ticket:(
<liheng> But they will be back next week :)
<mhu> ah, okay; understood; hope the two of had some good time, though
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