Log Mac Meeting March 5th 2008

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[2008-03-05 14:02:43] <PhilippL> 1. Welcome new devs joining Mac OS X port
[2008-03-05 14:02:52] <PhilippL> Anybody new ?
[2008-03-05 14:02:59] <PhilippL> (now with log file on :-))
[2008-03-05 14:03:09] <fne> deja vu ;-)
[2008-03-05 14:04:00] * shaunmcdonald always logs ;-)
[2008-03-05 14:04:14] <shaunmcdonald> Armahg: your new
[2008-03-05 14:04:23] <Armahg> yes
[2008-03-05 14:04:24] <Armahg> I am
[2008-03-05 14:04:40] <PhilippL> Then be welcome to the Mac/Aqua developer community !
[2008-03-05 14:04:51] <Armahg> hello everyone .. I wanted to keep a low profile so i'll just be listening ... I'm a student with some Objective-C Cocoa experience
[2008-03-05 14:05:04] <PhilippL> Is there any special area you would be interested in ?
[2008-03-05 14:05:08] <shaunmcdonald> Armahg: what are you wanting to do in the mac port?
[2008-03-05 14:05:09] <Armahg> and am looking to find out which direction your Mac OS X port is going in
[2008-03-05 14:05:26] <Armahg> in order to help me with ideas for contributing either via GSoC
[2008-03-05 14:05:31] <Armahg> or in general
[2008-03-05 14:06:02] <Armahg> basically i'm here to find out whats important to you guys in terms of porting to Mac OS X and how much of that overlaps with my interests - Obj-C and Cocoa
[2008-03-05 14:06:09] <shaunmcdonald> PhilippL: will we discuss Google Summer of Code later?
[2008-03-05 14:06:13] <Armahg> that way i know what to contribute
[2008-03-05 14:06:16] <Armahg> i'll be quiet for now
[2008-03-05 14:06:18] <Armahg> :)
[2008-03-05 14:06:32] <PhilippL> shaunmcdonald: If you want to, yes of course :-)
[2008-03-05 14:06:37] <PhilippL> Ok, then
[2008-03-05 14:06:50] <PhilippL> 2. Current state of the open CWS's
[2008-03-05 14:06:56] <PhilippL> auqavcl05 is nominated
[2008-03-05 14:07:04] <fne> great news!
[2008-03-05 14:07:07] <PhilippL> nativeprintdlg01 should be this afternoon.
[2008-03-05 14:07:08] <shaunmcdonald> 8-)
[2008-03-05 14:07:19] -->| eric__ (n=eric@aud25-1-88-166-8-11.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #ooo_macport
[2008-03-05 14:07:23] <eric__> hello
[2008-03-05 14:07:24] <PhilippL> sorry, s/nominated/approved by QA/
[2008-03-05 14:07:36] =-= eric__ is now known as ericb2
[2008-03-05 14:07:39] <PhilippL> but that should be only a trivial difference :-)
[2008-03-05 14:07:48] =-= Mode #ooo_macport +o ericb2  by ChanServ
[2008-03-05 14:08:08] <ericb2> sorry for being late
[2008-03-05 14:08:30] <fne> in aqua11y01 we do some bug fixing. we got feedback from Apple and Peter Korn (Accessibility Architect of Sun) who reported some issues. after these fixes we are RFQ maybe next week...
[2008-03-05 14:08:38] <PhilippL> aquafilepicker02 is nominated already.
[2008-03-05 14:09:04] <PhilippL> fne: this sounds very good ?
[2008-03-05 14:09:17] <PhilippL> fne: I guess there are still problems with popups ?
[2008-03-05 14:09:31] <fne> PhilippL: yes, right now we improved stability and performance
[2008-03-05 14:09:44] <paveljanik> fne: great!
[2008-03-05 14:09:45] <fne> PhilippL: yes, popups are still an issue
[2008-03-05 14:10:10] <fne> writer and calc are usable right now
[2008-03-05 14:10:29] <shaunmcdonald> popups?
[2008-03-05 14:10:32] <fne> as far as a seeing human being like I am can approve
[2008-03-05 14:10:50] <fne> popups are not read by VoiceOver currently
[2008-03-05 14:11:01] <shaunmcdonald> ah ok
[2008-03-05 14:11:06] <fne> maybe we implement them with native cocoa widgets
[2008-03-05 14:11:26] <fne> then VO will read and under Leopard they get these nice round edges
[2008-03-05 14:11:51] <PhilippL> yes, that would solve some problems.
[2008-03-05 14:12:53] <PhilippL> Ok, any other CWS news ?
[2008-03-05 14:13:05] <PhilippL> hdu_hh: whats up with pdffix02 ?
[2008-03-05 14:13:23] <hdu_hh> ongoing
[2008-03-05 14:14:57] <PhilippL> ok, that brings us to
[2008-03-05 14:15:01] <PhilippL> 3. Roundtable
[2008-03-05 14:15:17] <PhilippL> shaunmcdonald: you wanted to discuss GSOC ?
[2008-03-05 14:15:33] <shaunmcdonald> what are the plans for GSOC in the ooo project this year?
[2008-03-05 14:15:53] <PhilippL> No idea.
[2008-03-05 14:16:21] <shaunmcdonald> the application date for organisations is march 12, and student applications start on march 24
[2008-03-05 14:16:37] <paveljanik> Do we have something we want to have implemented?
[2008-03-05 14:16:50] <paveljanik> Do we have up-to-date aqua TODO?
[2008-03-05 14:16:56] <paveljanik> in IZ
[2008-03-05 14:16:56] <paveljanik> ?
[2008-03-05 14:17:18] <shaunmcdonald> in previous years there was some good work done through the GSOC programme.
[2008-03-05 14:17:20] <PhilippL> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Porting_-_Roadmap is the best I can think of.
[2008-03-05 14:17:45] <shaunmcdonald> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/List_of_OpenOffice.org_Mac_OS_X_issues_and_problems
[2008-03-05 14:18:13] <paveljanik> PhilippL: yes, the tasks at the bottom there are interesting ;-)
[2008-03-05 14:18:28] <shaunmcdonald> last modified nearly a year ago
[2008-03-05 14:18:36] <fne> maybe "Support remote control" ?
[2008-03-05 14:18:56] <shaunmcdonald> the roadmap one is more up to date
[2008-03-05 14:18:59] <paveljanik> fne: the API is unknown thus potentially problematic :-(
[2008-03-05 14:19:12] <PhilippL> shaunmcdonald: ? At least the colors were updated :-)
[2008-03-05 14:19:48] <paveljanik> native canvas for slideshows ;-)
[2008-03-05 14:19:52] * shaunmcdonald hasn't looked at the diff to see what changed
[2008-03-05 14:20:05] <paveljanik> AppleHelp usage
[2008-03-05 14:20:39] <fne> paveljanik: http://www.martinkahr.com/source-code
[2008-03-05 14:20:46] <shaunmcdonald> there is support for iphoto in leopard's native file open dialogs by default
[2008-03-05 14:20:52] <fne> there is source code for a remote control wrapper
[2008-03-05 14:21:46] <PhilippL> The native security support might be interesting (signing and so on).
[2008-03-05 14:22:20] <paveljanik> galleries from iphoto would be nice as well ;-)
[2008-03-05 14:22:25] <PhilippL> I don't  know though whether a student can be expected to get that ready within the two months GSOC goes ?
[2008-03-05 14:22:41] <PhilippL> paveljanik: good point.
[2008-03-05 14:23:11] <PhilippL> Let's add these items to the Roadmap.
[2008-03-05 14:23:20] <shaunmcdonald> PhilippL: it depends on what they already know
[2008-03-05 14:23:33] -->| Dyrcona (n=jason@134.241.127.2) has joined #ooo_macport
[2008-03-05 14:24:12] <PhilippL> shaunmcdonald: yes. but the security thing for example is deeply rooted at the moment in mozilla code.
[2008-03-05 14:24:17] <shaunmcdonald> PhilippL: if they have already touched on these things then they may be able to implement it within the given timeframe
[2008-03-05 14:24:35] <PhilippL> fo e.g. the gallery thing I'd expect not so deep interdependencies to the rest of the office code.
[2008-03-05 14:24:50] <paveljanik> shaunmcdonald: yes, but that is the Mac side. OOo side is much harder... At least in case of signatures.
[2008-03-05 14:24:55] <paveljanik> PhilippL: yes.
[2008-03-05 14:25:35] <shaunmcdonald> probably not the security one, though if the right student comes along a project where some progress on it could be made up
[2008-03-05 14:25:53] <shaunmcdonald> or does the project have to be a complete feature?
[2008-03-05 14:26:29] <PhilippL> no, AFAIK the project mentor decides what is sufficient.
[2008-03-05 14:27:34] <shaunmcdonald> so if a student is really interested/has experience in signatures etc, then we could let them do it, though should note that it will be difficult
[2008-03-05 14:30:40] <PhilippL> So any other points to discuss.
[2008-03-05 14:30:45] <PhilippL> ?
[2008-03-05 14:30:50] <shaunmcdonald> looking at the roadmap
[2008-03-05 14:31:03] <shaunmcdonald> there is the issue "install spotlight plugin during startup
[2008-03-05 14:31:04] <shaunmcdonald> "
[2008-03-05 14:31:22] <shaunmcdonald> however doesn't it work from within the .app bundle
[2008-03-05 14:32:05] <shaunmcdonald> I know there are issues of unpredicability of which plugin will be used if there are multiple on the system
[2008-03-05 14:32:46] -->| dave_largo (n=drichard@207.22.154.120) has joined #ooo_macport
[2008-03-05 14:33:02] <PhilippL> The same is true for different installed application bundles
[2008-03-05 14:33:12] <PhilippL> (e.g. X11 version and aqua version  in parallel)
[2008-03-05 14:33:26] <PhilippL> the default application is not easily apparent.
[2008-03-05 14:33:35] <PhilippL> The same is true I think for the plugins.
[2008-03-05 14:33:52] * shaunmcdonald is never sure which ooo will start when he double clicks a document :-/
[2008-03-05 14:35:01] * Dyrcona only uses the Aqua version, now.
[2008-03-05 14:35:52] * PhilippL too, but has multiple Auqa versions in parallel due to different CWS :-)
[2008-03-05 14:36:38] * shaunmcdonald has many different version on a backup drive
[2008-03-05 14:39:08] <shaunmcdonald> using mdimport -L it is already found inside the application bundle
[2008-03-05 14:40:03] <PhilippL> Yes, and as long as we stay with the D&D installation I think that issue is solved.
[2008-03-05 14:40:24] <Dyrcona> most ordinary users would have only 1 OO.o installed at a time, no?
[2008-03-05 14:40:28] <ericb2> did you talk about image capture implementation already ?
[2008-03-05 14:40:40] <PhilippL> In case we changed to a packaged installation one could install into the system, but not before.
[2008-03-05 14:40:47] <shaunmcdonald> it looks like it uses the date of the .importer top-level directory is the thing that determines which plugin is used
[2008-03-05 14:40:48] <PhilippL> ericb2: no.
[2008-03-05 14:40:52] <PhilippL> Dyrcona: yes
[2008-03-05 14:40:59] <shaunmcdonald> Dyrcona: yes
[2008-03-05 14:41:19] <ericb2> PhilippL: there is an effort in progress for Image Captuer implementation
[2008-03-05 14:41:26] <PhilippL> shaunmcdonald: which is an arbitrary decision, but at least a decision :-)
[2008-03-05 14:41:46] <ericb2> PhilippL: Dyrcona and valeuf + me are working on it
[2008-03-05 14:41:46] <PhilippL> ericb2: yes, that will be a welcom addition I think.
[2008-03-05 14:41:49] * Dyrcona likes the dmg installation.
[2008-03-05 14:42:00] <ericb2> PhilippL: and I got sources for remote control
[2008-03-05 14:42:02] <PhilippL> Funny that the webcam is not an Image Capture source.
[2008-03-05 14:42:24] <ericb2> PhilippL: the problem is they have to be adpated, because they are under MIT license like
[2008-03-05 14:42:25] <paveljanik> ericb2: which sources?
[2008-03-05 14:42:30] <Dyrcona> if spotlight can find the plugin in the app bundle then is there really a need to install it?
[2008-03-05 14:42:37] <ericb2> PhilippL: and I wonder whether this is compatible
[2008-03-05 14:42:53] <ericb2> PhilippL: I learned the thing, and it should be possible to adpat it to OpenOffice.org
[2008-03-05 14:43:01] <PhilippL> paveljanik: let me look if I find the pointer again.
[2008-03-05 14:43:05] <shaunmcdonald> Dyrcona: that was the whole point of me raising it ;-)
[2008-03-05 14:43:20] <paveljanik> PhilippL: source or wrapper?
[2008-03-05 14:43:33] <ericb2> paveljanik: I'll give you the pointer later. I'm at work, and I'm connected thourgh three machines at homecurrently
[2008-03-05 14:43:35] <Dyrcona> shaunmcdonald: yep, and I don't think it needs to be installed.
[2008-03-05 14:44:00] <PhilippL> paveljanik: the source I remember is sort of reversed engineered code that reads some undocumented system events.
[2008-03-05 14:44:06] <ericb2> obr: will you be on the channel this evening ?
[2008-03-05 14:44:16] <Dyrcona> shaunmcdonald: but I'm the new guy around here. :)
[2008-03-05 14:44:23] <PhilippL> paveljanik: Apple has no "official" API that I know of for the remote control.
[2008-03-05 14:44:44] <ericb2> obr: Florian Hecklput me as QA for quicklookplugin01 cws , and I have questions, but after my work
[2008-03-05 14:46:20] <PhilippL> paveljanik: sorry, at the moment I cannot find it. If I remember correctly the code was under a free license, but using no documented API makes it a little unstable probably.
[2008-03-05 14:46:40] <ericb2> PhilippL: you mean the pointer I gave you some times ago ?
[2008-03-05 14:47:40] <PhilippL> ericb2: yes.
[2008-03-05 14:47:43] * ericb2 see aquavcl05 nominated today
[2008-03-05 14:47:50] <PhilippL> ericb2: sorry, I can't find it at the moment.
[2008-03-05 14:47:54] <ericb2> PhilippL: I'll retrieve it
[2008-03-05 14:48:02] <ericb2> PhilippL: .. when back at home
[2008-03-05 14:48:35] <ericb2> PhilippL: this is a very goodpiece of code imho, but not directly usable
[2008-03-05 14:49:20] <PhilippL> paveljanik, ericb2 : I think it's at http://www.martinkahr.com/source-code/
[2008-03-05 14:49:28] <PhilippL> and the license is MIT
[2008-03-05 14:49:35] <ericb2> PhilippL: exactly
[2008-03-05 14:50:22] <ericb2> hey .. nativeprintdlg01 has just been nominated too. One minute ago ^^
[2008-03-05 14:50:32] <ericb2> :-)
[2008-03-05 14:50:52] <ericb2> PhilippL: thanks again for all the extra code you added
[2008-03-05 14:51:22] <PhilippL> ericb2: good news. Yes, and hasan just came in in person and told me :-)
[2008-03-05 14:51:39] <ericb2> PhilippL: please say him thank you from my part :)
[2008-03-05 14:51:45] <PhilippL> Will do.
[2008-03-05 14:51:46] <shaunmcdonald> 8-)
[2008-03-05 14:52:17] <ericb2> later
[2008-03-05 14:52:19] <shaunmcdonald> so in the next milestone we will have a native print dialog, and some extra stability, and what else?
[2008-03-05 14:52:31] <PhilippL> With all these mac CWS going into the next version (m2?) we won't need any mac merge builds anymore I think :-)
[2008-03-05 14:53:36] <shaunmcdonald> PhilippL: only until we have another bunch of mac specific CWS ;-)
[2008-03-05 14:53:56] <PhilippL> yes, there will be development still :-)
[2008-03-05 14:55:02] <PhilippL> So any other points to discuss ?
[2008-03-05 14:56:21] <paveljanik> no
[2008-03-05 14:57:06] <shaunmcdonald> not that I can think of just now