Difference between revisions of "Log Mac Meeting 4 May 2007"

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[22:00] <ericb2> Can we start ?

[22:00] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: yes

[22:00] <ericb2> 1. Welcome new devs and devs from Sun joining Mac OS X port

[22:00] <ericb2> :)

[22:00] <shaunmcdonald> the agenda is at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings

[22:01] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: thanks

[22:01] * cloph_away is now known as cloph

[22:01] <ericb2> as usual , the first point is dedicated to welcome the new devs

[22:01] <ericb2> today is not usual, becasue we have to welcome Sun devs

[22:02] <paveljanik> we want to :-)

[22:02] <PhilippL> Oh, I'm here :-)

[22:02] paveljanik PhilippL plipli

[22:02] <PhilippL> Hello everybody.

[22:03] <paveljanik> Looks like _Nesshof_ finally trashed Windows as well? ;-)

[22:03] <ericb2> PhilippL: can you please shortly present you ?

[22:03] paveljanik PhilippL plipli

[22:03] * cloph wonders whether anybody commented to my nas question/rant since I have been disconnected...

[22:03] <_Nesshof_> paveljanik: not really, I'm using all the platforms where OOo runs

[22:04] * PhilippL works for Sun/StarOffics/StarDivision for nearly ten years. basically always on the platform GUI stuff, and here mostly for the Unix platforms.

[22:04] * _Nesshof_ admits that he runs now Vista

[22:05] * Cremlae (n=Cremlae@dialup-85-141.colorado.edu) has joined #OOo_macport

[22:05] <PhilippL> Apart from vcl I work on printing clipboard, PDF export, scanning and have left fingerprints at a dozen other places.

[22:05] <plipli> hi Cremlae

[22:05] <paveljanik> PhilippL: glad to have you on board!

[22:05] <Cremlae> plipli: Hi!

[22:06] <PhilippL> I have basically no mac experience, but I think I can help with integration into general vcl.

[22:06] <plipli> PhilippL: great to have a vcl expert with us

[22:06] <PhilippL> HDU on the other hand is THE font expert inside OOo I would say.

[22:06] <ericb2> PhilippL: sure you will : your vcl knowledge is IMHO impressive

[22:06] <plipli> we need vcl knowledge, we ll bring mac osx experience

[22:07] <PhilippL> The aqua ATSUI code is already contributed (at least partly ?) by him and he will certainly continue to work on that.

[22:07] <plipli> hdu has helped eric and me for atsui

[22:07] <PhilippL> I guess that's about it about us ?

[22:07] <ericb2> FYI , Herbert advertised me he cannot attend the meeting

[22:07] paveljanik PhilippL plipli

[22:07] paveljanik PhilippL plipli

[22:08] * fheckl (n=florianh@p57B55D99.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:08] <plipli> With hdu tips, I was able to inplement beginning parts of salatslayout

[22:08] <ericb2> PhilippL: thank you very much

[22:08] <shaunmcdonald> fheckl: hello, PhilippL has just introduced himself

[22:09] <plipli> hi fheckl

[22:09] <fheckl> ok, I read his intro mail, hi everyone

[22:10] <paveljanik> other new devs?

[22:10] <ericb2> paveljanik: I think so

[22:12] <impad> yes, I am a standalone programer with some experience with OSX dev

[22:12] <impad> but a newcomer on the project :)

[22:12] <ericb2> impad: great ! be welcome :)

[22:13] * Fridrich (n=fridrich@26-34.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:13] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fridrich

[22:13] <impad> ericb2 : thank you

[22:13] <ericb2> impad: do you have Carbon API experience ?

[22:14] * damiend (n=damiend@fau42-2-82-239-192-212.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:14] <ismael_> hi damiend

[22:14] <damiend> ismael_: ih

[22:14] <impad> ericb2 : unfortunately, I'm much more experienced in Cocoa

[22:14] <damiend> ismael_: i'm reading the log

[22:15] <ericb2> impad: if you have Mac experience, you can help us

[22:15] impad ismael_ IZBot

[22:15] <PhilippL> Question: Is the Cocoa implementation based on Carbon ?

[22:15] <impad> ericb2 : at least, I'll try ;)

[22:16] <fheckl> PhilippL; given Cocoa's past, I doubt it

[22:16] <ericb2> PhilippL: no, this is another API ( objective C, simple inheritance, dynamic typing ..etc) . Most of the time Carbon "compatible" , but not always

[22:16] <paveljanik> PhilippL: some APIs are, some are not.

[22:17] <PhilippL> So is there any real danger of Apple end-of-lifing Carbon ?

[22:17] * doctype (n=martin@p57a23df8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:18] <fheckl> PhilippL: not in the next few years

[22:18] <plipli> ericb2: i don t agree

[22:18] <tinor_> PhilippL: In principal yes, but I think its almost the same as with win32 on Windows, they can really afford to end-of-lifing it

[22:18] <tinor_> PhilippL: Without loosing lots of old apps

[22:18] <thorsten> which other apps are based on Carbon?

[22:19] <PhilippL> Ok, i just asked, because that was of the concerns in the Blog-Comments

[22:19] <thorsten> mozilla, I guess?

[22:19] <tinor_> #can#can't

[22:19] <damiend> thorsten: old CS2 Adobe and Office 2004

[22:19] <damiend> but often into PowerPPC arch

[22:19] <paveljanik> next point? ;-)

[22:19] <plipli> cocoa and carbon are mixed in macosx apis

[22:19] <tinor_> thorsten: AFAIK many of the Adobe apps

[22:20] <ericb2> Other devs ?

[22:20] <plipli> we have to focus on

[22:20] <plipli> paveljanik: no

[22:20] <plipli> a sec

[22:20] <tinor_> thorsten: Even MS Office is based on Carbon, though I've heard they are trying to switch to Cocoe

[22:20] <plipli> cocoa can use carbon and carbon can call cocoa

[22:20] <plipli> we don t need to switch truly

[22:21] <paveljanik> good example will be spell checker integration for us ;-)

[22:21] <plipli> apple release api for both cocoa and carbon

[22:21] <plipli> becaus cocoa is too high level

[22:21] <plipli> for specific dev every mac coder use part of carbon apis

[22:21] <ericb2> plipli: and this is expensive .. maintain only one would simplify apple life

[22:22] <plipli> all this will be much clearer zith core grpahics, core text

[22:22] <ericb2> Next point ?

[22:22] <shaunmcdonald> one quick thing

[22:22] <plipli> ericb2: the transition has alreqdy begun

[22:22] <shaunmcdonald> the news of the sun devs is reaching far

[22:22] <shaunmcdonald> there have been around 2 dozen blog posts or more so far

[22:22] <plipli> we have to focus on being Core * co;patible

[22:23] <shaunmcdonald> this is a *lot* compared to an ooo release or any other mac related ooo news

[22:23] <obr> paveljanik: is somebody actively working on spellchecker integration ?

[22:23] <paveljanik> obr: no.

[22:23] <obr> paveljanik: o.k., thanks.

[22:23] <damiend> plipli: what do you mean by "Core compatible ? "

[22:24] <shaunmcdonald> this have been received mostly positively :-) though there have been a few comments on "Just use NeoOffice"

[22:24] <plipli> if we continue to use recent apple code, sample and core grpahics, core text etc

[22:24] <plipli> we ll be safe

[22:24] <ericb2> plipli: +1

[22:24] <ericb2> plipli: this is my opinion too

[22:24] <plipli> I ll get info more precise from apple engineers

[22:24] <plipli> that s one of the main reason to go to wwdc

[22:25] <plipli> and fetch info at the source

[22:25] <fheckl> plipli: yes, just think of QuickDraw deprecation in favor of CoreGraphics/Quartz

[22:26] * Fridrich (n=fridrich@26-34.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch) has left #ooo_macport

[22:26] <ericb2> Next point is :

[22:26] <plipli> fheckl: cocoa is only a framework historically from nextstep

[22:26] <ericb2> 2. A point on Aqua port

[22:26] <plipli> fheckl: now Tiger and leopard are Core* based

[22:27] <plipli> damiend: we have to continue following apple s guide to Core oriented progrmming : using API of Core frameworks

[22:27] <plipli> ericb2: +1

[22:28] <ericb2> The Aqua port now

[22:28] <ericb2> our first objective is to provide a real Mac application

[22:29] <ericb2> since some times ,we did big progress, enough to define a timeline and a Top 10 of issues before to provide an "alpha"

[22:30] <ericb2> The timeline : http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/timeline.html

[22:30] <ericb2> as you can see, we are a bit in late

[22:30] <ericb2> Top 10 of issues: http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/news/2007/20070203toptenbeforealpha.html

[22:30] <ericb2> 5 are ( please correct me) fixed

[22:31] <ericb2> 3 over 5 have a workaround ( we know the " what", not the exact "why")

[22:32] <ericb2> During 2nd Hamburg porters meeting (dec2006)

[22:32] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: very good point about the timeline

[22:32] <ericb2> Stephan Shaefer wrote a document describing the most important points to solve

[22:32] <ericb2> http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/MacPortersMeeting_Ham_07/may04/aquaport-roadmap.pdf

[22:33] <ericb2> I just updated the document ( the old one is : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/MacPortersMeeting_Ham_07/ )

[22:34] <ericb2> I proose to discuss the content, point by point, and define objectives

[22:34] <ericb2> s/proose/propose/

[22:34] <ericb2> sorry

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