Difference between revisions of "Log Mac Meeting 27 June 2007"

Latest revision as of 10:43, 16 December 2009

[2007-06-27 13::00:31] shaunmcdonald: The time now is 12:00UTC

[2007-06-27 13::01:00] ericb2: PhilippL: Bootstrap is just an example

[2007-06-27 13::01:15] paveljanik: yes.

[2007-06-27 13::01:21] shaunmcdonald: 1. Welcome new devs joining Mac OS X port

[2007-06-27 13::01:22] ericb2: completely forgot :)

[2007-06-27 13::01:33] PhilippL: ericb2: bootstrap is sort of common also, since so many things need to be bootstrapped (=initialized)

[2007-06-27 13::01:43] ericb2: PhilippL: indeed

[2007-06-27 13::03:35] ¬ª mav_eric joined the chat room.

[2007-06-27 13::03:35] ¬ª mav_eric was promoted to operator by ChanServ.

[2007-06-27 13::03:58] shaunmcdonald: Are there any new developers here today?

[2007-06-27 13::05:28] paveljanik: probably no.

[2007-06-27 13::05:59] shaunmcdonald: lets move on then

[2007-06-27 13::06:55] PhilippL: work in progress: printing. Nothing to show yet, but perhaps tomorrow.

[2007-06-27 13::07:09] ericb2: PhilippL: wow :)

[2007-06-27 13::07:25] mav_eric: PhilippL: would be great :-)

[2007-06-27 13::07:39] ericb2: aquavcl01 is now resync'ed with m217

[2007-06-27 13::07:42] PhilippL: There will however be a lot to do yet, e.g. native dialogs for printer settings.

[2007-06-27 13::08:30] hdu_hh: I'm looking into performance problems (that are probably caused by problematic handling of messages)

[2007-06-27 13::09:15] mav_eric: PhilippL: One step after the other - no need to hurry :-)

[2007-06-27 13::10:39] ek: I've just started to investigate to use fallback fonts for ATSUI. hdu_hh: have you already work on it?

[2007-06-27 13::10:53] hdu_hh: ek: no, not yet

[2007-06-27 13::11:03] ek: I think it is needed for Japanese user.

[2007-06-27 13::11:38] ericb2: paveljanik: shortcuts is really impotant point. Why did you put your entries before in the list ?

[2007-06-27 13::12:19] hdu_hh: ek: probably. we should also define the default fonts for Writer/Calc/... on all Mac locales

[2007-06-27 13::13:33] ¬ª UweAlt joined the chat room.

[2007-06-27 13::14:13] ek: hdu_hh: I think so too. Also if I use en_US build with English locale, files with Japanese name are not able to be recognized.

[2007-06-27 13::14:34] paveljanik: ericb2: so it is ordered by the prio? Should I resort the list according to priorities completely?

[2007-06-27 13::15:05] ericb2: paveljanik: no, just repect the order. You add a point, please put it after the previous one. Thanks

[2007-06-27 13::15:43] paveljanik: I'd prefer the sort order by connection with the similar topics.

[2007-06-27 13::16:21] ericb2: paveljanik: one more time you don't respect people

[2007-06-27 13::16:39] paveljanik: ;-))

[2007-06-27 13::16:51] cloph: <sigh>again ericb2 takes stuff too personally</sigh>

[2007-06-27 13::16:56] ericb2: cloph: no

[2007-06-27 13::16:56] paveljanik: ;-)

[2007-06-27 13::17:10] ericb2: since one year, we try to respect the agenda

[2007-06-27 13::17:11] shaunmcdonald: 2. Latest Aqua news / Work in progress

[2007-06-27 13::17:26] ericb2: paveljanik: comesn and modify without ask. This is not correct. Dot

[2007-06-27 13::17:34] paveljanik: ;-) WIKI ;-)

[2007-06-27 13::17:40] shaunmcdonald: next point is 3. aquavcl01 cws integration (part3)

[2007-06-27 13::17:42] hdu_hh: ek: Let's delay the discussion about the JP specific problems till we get to the matching issue on the agenda

[2007-06-27 13::17:57] ek: hdu_hh: Sure :)

[2007-06-27 13::19:12] PhilippL: paveljanik: I'll spend friday with the reviews you wanted done for integration.

[2007-06-27 13::19:42] paveljanik: PhilippL: thank you very much! I'm doing the same for !vcl modules.

[2007-06-27 13::20:14] thorsten: yep

[2007-06-27 13::20:15] paveljanik: I trust tino on dtrans changes.

[2007-06-27 13::20:27] tino: paveljanik: Oh thanks! ;)

[2007-06-27 13::20:27] ericb2: needs a QA for salaquatox11

[2007-06-27 13::22:41] paveljanik: ericb2: maybe obr is the best person here?

[2007-06-27 13::24:07] obr: already read through all the changes until yesturday evening

[2007-06-27 13::24:22] paveljanik: thought so :-)

[2007-06-27 13::25:27] ericb2: obr: will you be the QA resp. ?

[2007-06-27 13::25:55] paveljanik: I think the aquavcl01 status is clear now. Unfortunately I'll be away next week because of long planned holiday, so I can't help more next week.

[2007-06-27 13::27:07] obr: ericb2: yeah, makes sense. BTW: maybe we should add a comment to module.c changes explaining dlopen expects absolute paths on MacOS X

[2007-06-27 13::27:22] PhilippL: I think we'll get it integrated with jogi's help in the time.

[2007-06-27 13::27:51] tino: PhilippL: I think so too

[2007-06-27 13::28:31] paveljanik: Yes. But sunrayjogi can help us only when we make it ready for integration... And we did lot of progress ;-)

[2007-06-27 13::29:03] ericb2: About aqua issue. Yedterday, we had :

[2007-06-27 13::30:22] obr: ericb2: o.k.

[2007-06-27 13::30:39] ericb2: I'll close the alpha once printing will work

[2007-06-27 13::31:22] PhilippL: tino: we should adjust the target of aquavcl01 as well as the target on the contained issues.

[2007-06-27 13::32:18] tino: PhilippL: Are you talking about the "Approved by QA" date?

[2007-06-27 13::32:40] PhilippL: tino: no, we're aiming for 2.3 now, most issues and the CWS are for 3.0

[2007-06-27 13::33:16] tino: PhilippL: Ah ok got it

[2007-06-27 13::33:43] paveljanik: yes, we should do this at the end of our journey once for all issues - 2.3 and aquavcl01's target 2.3.

[2007-06-27 13::33:56] cloph: PhilippL: In the query results (Issue list), use the "change multiple issues at once" link below the list..

[2007-06-27 13::34:05] paveljanik: But now we should also walk over aqua keyworded issues that are fixed in aquavcl01 and are not in the issue list.

[2007-06-27 13::35:01] tino: PhilippL: I guess target is OOo 2.3, the same applies to the issues(?)

[2007-06-27 13::35:12] PhilippL: tino: I'd say so, yes.

[2007-06-27 13::36:02] shaunmcdonald: 4. aquafilepicker01 integration

[2007-06-27 13::36:43] tino: paveljanik, PhilippL: Ok, cws target adapted to OOo2.3, looks as if Pavel will take care to set the issue targets accordingly

[2007-06-27 13::36:49] paveljanik: The current status is that there are two crashers. Florian will try to get both fixed before I leave for vacation, so it is on good way and I believe it will be integrated even before aquavcl01.

[2007-06-27 13::37:10] PhilippL: paveljanik: That's good news

[2007-06-27 13::37:23] tino: paveljanik: thx

[2007-06-27 13::38:33] paveljanik: if Florian won't fix it before my leave, we will continue once I'm back.

[2007-06-27 13::40:05] shaunmcdonald: 5. testtool and its packaging in the application bundle

[2007-06-27 13::40:42] paveljanik: 5. development after aquavcl01

[2007-06-27 13::41:18] shaunmcdonald: sees someone has changed the agenda

[2007-06-27 13::41:27] paveljanik: 1. regular: feature per cws, qa etc.

[2007-06-27 13::41:50] ¬ª dave_largo joined the chat room.

[2007-06-27 13::42:07] paveljanik: 2. was a cws opened for some time and all people added issues to it and fixed issues there and then Sun QA did the QA on it.

[2007-06-27 13::43:23] shaunmcdonald: Major features to use 1. minor fixes to use 2. would sound sensible

[2007-06-27 13::43:24] paveljanik: The same model as we used with fpicker01.

[2007-06-27 13::43:40] PhilippL: I'd open aquavcl02 and continue working on it like on aquavcl01. Of course other features that are independent can go into their own CWS.

[2007-06-27 13::43:43] paveljanik: aquavcl01 is "community" cws, aquafpicker01 was specific feature.

[2007-06-27 13::44:08] ek: I'd prefer 2. because we have to do a lot of minor improvement of aqua vcl specific things.

[2007-06-27 13::45:04] paveljanik: I also think that aquavcl02 will be more important when we have the current half-of-all-OOo-modules-cws integrated ;-)

[2007-06-27 13::45:09] PhilippL: We can have both. There is too much to do yet before we can consider vcl/aqua mostly featurecomplete.

[2007-06-27 13::45:31] paveljanik: yes. But I do not want to close the way to 1.

[2007-06-27 13::46:00] PhilippL: So I suggest aquavcl02 for ongoning general aquaport, and separate things like dialogs can go into their own CWS.

[2007-06-27 13::46:22] paveljanik: PhilippL: +1

[2007-06-27 13::46:26] ericb2: PhilippL: +1 for aquavcl02 + and other specific cws. The most important is once aquavcl01 no need to hack to have something building

[2007-06-27 13::46:30] ismael_: PhilippL: +1

[2007-06-27 13::46:32] PhilippL: paveljanik: only in theory. The first thing I'll do is merge in the things from aquavcl01 while it is not integrated.

[2007-06-27 13::47:06] paveljanik: PhilippL: this is maintenance nightmare when something gets changed in aquavcl01 after this process.

[2007-06-27 13::47:36] PhilippL: paveljanik: no, since a resync to a master containing aquavcl01 is of course a must.

[2007-06-27 13::47:53] paveljanik: yes, this I call "maintenance nightmare" ;-)

[2007-06-27 13::47:57] PhilippL: paveljanik: after that the diff should be zero.

[2007-06-27 13::48:02] paveljanik: yes.

[2007-06-27 13::48:25] PhilippL: paveljanik: It's work, yes, but I cannot simply stop for two weeks.

[2007-06-27 13::48:46] paveljanik: PhilippL: yes, I know. This is the drawback of 2. and benefit of 1. ;-)

[2007-06-27 13::51:09] shaunmcdonald: 6. testtool and its packaging in the application bundle

[2007-06-27 13::51:32] paveljanik: I've got testool running yesterday by hacking the installed application.

[2007-06-27 13::52:21] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: that's the way that many other apps do small support applications

[2007-06-27 13::52:26] paveljanik: This could be quite effective way to get tt packaged in the application bundle.

[2007-06-27 13::52:37] PhilippL: paveljanik: how does this work ? Can we use it for our wrappers (swriter, sdraw, etc.) ?

[2007-06-27 13::52:45] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: 8) I was not aware of practices, thus I was about to ask for experience about this ;-)

[2007-06-27 13::53:15] ericb2: paveljanik: why not use TPT ?

[2007-06-27 13::53:22] paveljanik: http://tmp.janik.cz/OpenOffice.org/MacOSX/native_testtool.txt

[2007-06-27 13::54:18] shaunmcdonald: it might be worth looking at ClamXav, they have a small menu bar app in the resources folder

[2007-06-27 13::54:20] paveljanik: But I think if TPT works better, it should be used instead.

[2007-06-27 13::54:31] ericb2: paveljanik: I think so too

[2007-06-27 13::54:56] paveljanik: There were several issues though.

[2007-06-27 13::56:17] mav_eric: what's TPT?

[2007-06-27 13::56:36] paveljanik: This could help us a lot to 1. get respect to our work 2. do our work as a regular development.

[2007-06-27 13::56:40] ericb2: paveljanik: I already tested in svmainhook.cxx and testtool was responding

[2007-06-27 13::56:53] paveljanik: ericb2: did you also run some tests with it?

[2007-06-27 13::57:17] ericb2: paveljanik: I'll do. Just program ( hardcoded ) has to be hacked

[2007-06-27 13::57:19] paveljanik: forgot its real name ;-)

[2007-06-27 13::57:20] mav_eric: paveljanik: thanks

[2007-06-27 13::57:39] paveljanik: ericb2: so will you look at it?

[2007-06-27 13::58:04] ericb2: paveljanik: I just want to verify if TPT solves the backgorund/forground issue

[2007-06-27 13::58:24] paveljanik: ericb2: ok, then I'll continue the work afterwards.

[2007-06-27 13::58:43] ericb2: paveljanik: I'll add the change into swmainhook.cxx

[2007-06-27 13::59:11] paveljanik: ericb2: not yet please. Create an issue about it and we will see how it should work and who and where should call it.

[2007-06-27 14::00:39] ¬ª doctype joined the chat room.

[2007-06-27 14::00:53] shaunmcdonald: 7. define shortcuts in the entire application (was initialy : ALT does not work in formulas, issue 78847)

[2007-06-27 14::00:57] IZBot: porting DEFECT NEW P3 ALT does not work in formulas http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=78847

[2007-06-27 14::01:42] ericb2: Little issue, big effects

[2007-06-27 14::02:14] hdu_hh: the ALT-key on Mac means something totally different than on other platforms

[2007-06-27 14::02:17] ericb2: ALT is not available, and thus, { [ } ] \ .. etc are not working

[2007-06-27 14::02:22] PhilippL: yes. Let's disable Alt modifier and see how far that get's us.

[2007-06-27 14::03:11] ericb2: PhilippL: I prefer the seond option

[2007-06-27 14::03:44] hdu_hh: we should also disable the shortcut underlines then

[2007-06-27 14::04:11] PhilippL: certainly. At the moment they don't work anyway :-)

[2007-06-27 14::04:12] ericb2: hdu_hh: I think this is correct on Mac O SX

[2007-06-27 14::04:30] hdu_hh: yes, only on OSX

[2007-06-27 14::05:50] ericb2: hdu_hh , PhilippL can we have a complete view of where shortcuts are used, and (better) where it is located in the code ?

[2007-06-27 14::07:38] PhilippL: ericb2: shortcuts are used everywhere in the UI, but the handling is in vcl/source/window/accmgr.cxx

[2007-06-27 14::08:12] shaunmcdonald: PhilippL: what's the difference?

[2007-06-27 14::08:43] PhilippL: One (the shortcut ?) is active all the time. Example: Ctrl-O opens the file dialog.

[2007-06-27 14::10:00] ericb2: PhilippL: we don't need the second one on Mac OS X, this is not really Aqua HIG compliant

[2007-06-27 14::10:03] shaunmcdonald: many buttons in dialogs have accelerators on Mac OS X

[2007-06-27 14::10:05] cloph: calls the "underlined letters in the menu" mnemonics...

[2007-06-27 14::10:08] PhilippL: Shortcuts (I think) are exclujsively menu entries that can be triggered even while the menu is not open.

[2007-06-27 14::10:24] cloph: (menu or dialogs)

[2007-06-27 14::10:50] PhilippL: Anyway it will bve simple not to draw the underlines.

[2007-06-27 14::11:33] paveljanik: volunteer to file an issue to PhilippL? ;-)

[2007-06-27 14::11:52] shaunmcdonald: for example: open text edit, type some text, so that you modifiy the document, them press cmd+w to close. You will be asked to confirm the close without saving. You can use cmd+d to close without saving

[2007-06-27 14::12:26] ericb2: PhilippL: when I adde modifier5 on X11 version, I used to modify : vcl/source/window/key* .cxx and corresponding headers + some other like winproc.cxx. Was it not the good place ? Last, with Thomas Lange help, I now konw where is located the code for equations ( in svx/source/editeng/editeng.cxx )

[2007-06-27 14::12:49] ek: PhilippL: Also not to draw additional (F) for "File" aqua menu in JA locale.

[2007-06-27 14::13:26] PhilippL: ek: that's a separate issue, but we can do that easily, too, I think.

[2007-06-27 14::13:44] ¬ª doctype left the chat room.

[2007-06-27 14::13:50] ek: PhilippL: ok. sorry for separate issue...

[2007-06-27 14::14:14] PhilippL: ek: don't be :-) We'll just want another issue filed.

[2007-06-27 14::14:53] ericb2: hdu_hh: what is not clear is : " where is what in the sources"

[2007-06-27 14::14:54] PhilippL: As we can see there's already lots in the pipe for aquavcl02 :-)

[2007-06-27 14::14:57] ek: PhilippL: sure. I'm too ignorant about internal of OOo :)

[2007-06-27 14::15:31] hdu_hh: ericb2: can you rephrase the question?

[2007-06-27 14::16:38] ericb2: hdu_hh: I think we need some documentation. Shorcuts, accelerators, when they are available ..etc. Then we could do a correct choice if what keep, and what remove

[2007-06-27 14::17:09] paveljanik: ericb2: the correct choice can be done by reading the AHIG and removing what should be removed.

[2007-06-27 14::17:25] ericb2: paveljanik: this is not enough

[2007-06-27 14::17:31] paveljanik: ok.

[2007-06-27 14::17:45] ericb2: paveljanik: Base, Calc, and several other use all something, in different ways

[2007-06-27 14::18:57] ismael_: for your information, here are listed all the keyboard shortcut of the AHIG: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGKeyboardShortcuts/chapter_20_section_1.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40002725-CHDIGFBH

[2007-06-27 14::18:58] paveljanik: menu.cxx:

[2007-06-27 14::19:03] ericb2: e.g. I use a lot Formulas for equations, and as of today, nothing works

[2007-06-27 14::19:10] paveljanik: can we disable accelerators by configuration?

[2007-06-27 14::19:53] ericb2: paveljanik: if I'm not too wrong, mayve some xml file have a list of accelerators, but I'm not too sure

[2007-06-27 14::19:59] ¬ª realityking left the chat room.

[2007-06-27 14::20:06] PhilippL: Do we want to disable the accelerators or just their being drawn ?

[2007-06-27 14::20:46] paveljanik: so: accelerators are e.g. Cmd+Q shown in the menus. We want to keep them. Definitely.

[2007-06-27 14::20:48] ericb2: PhilippL: if we can have formlas working and acelerators, we'll keep all : some people using Windows or Linux OpenOffice.org will cry if things are different

[2007-06-27 14::21:15] PhilippL: I thought so.

[2007-06-27 14::21:21] ericb2: PhilippL: currently we don't know where things are , and how it works

[2007-06-27 14::21:22] paveljanik: We mix too many things at once ;-)

[2007-06-27 14::21:25] hdu_hh: ericb2: applications suggest accelerators using the translated UI-strings

[2007-06-27 14::21:33] paveljanik: hdu_hh: no.

[2007-06-27 14::22:50] hdu_hh: paveljanik: CMD+Q is a shortcut

[2007-06-27 14::23:16] PhilippL: cloph is right, let's talk about mnemonics. And we don't want to draw them, right ?

[2007-06-27 14::23:54] shaunmcdonald: thinks we need a clear definition of: mnemonic, shortcut and accelerator; so that we all have a common understanding

[2007-06-27 14::23:57] paveljanik: hdu_hh: not in VCL terminology. Or at least they are called accelerators there ;-)

[2007-06-27 14::24:25] PhilippL: The mnemonic is the actual key event + it's visual representation for either a shortcut or acceleartor. But we digress.

[2007-06-27 14::25:00] ericb2: PhilippL: where exactly : in all places ?

[2007-06-27 14::25:01] paveljanik: yes

[2007-06-27 14::25:13] PhilippL: yes, everywhere.

[2007-06-27 14::25:21] ek: PhilippL: yes

[2007-06-27 14::25:22] shaunmcdonald: +1 for removing the underlined letters in all places

[2007-06-27 14::25:25] PhilippL: wouldn't make real sense to do it just in one place.

[2007-06-27 14::26:01] shaunmcdonald: PhilippL: what do you mean by: Plus the (F) in menu entries. ?

[2007-06-27 14::26:14] ericb2: cannot find the F in menu entries

[2007-06-27 14::26:21] ek: shaunmcdonald: It is for translted menu like JA locale.

[2007-06-27 14::26:25] PhilippL: shaunmcdonald: In many languages the actual shortcut for a menu is a latin character

[2007-06-27 14::26:48] shaunmcdonald: PhilippL: ek: ah ok

[2007-06-27 14::26:54] ¬ª bm_ joined the chat room.

[2007-06-27 14::28:47] PhilippL: next point ?

[2007-06-27 14::28:51] paveljanik: BTW - where we show underscores? There are no in native menus. There are underscores in X11 menus (I think we should left them intact there).

[2007-06-27 14::28:52] ericb2: Can we summarize ?

[2007-06-27 14::29:00] paveljanik: buttons?

[2007-06-27 14::29:06] ericb2: PhilippL: what about Formulas ?

[2007-06-27 14::29:19] IZBot: porting DEFECT NEW P3 ALT does not work in formulas http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=78847

[2007-06-27 14::29:38] PhilippL: ericb2: Well, we wanted to map Alt to a different modifier, so that should take care of ut ?

[2007-06-27 14::29:38] paveljanik: ah yes, e.g. in Preferences, there are many underscores.

[2007-06-27 14::30:15] ericb2: PhilippL: you think remap ALT should sollve the issue ?

[2007-06-27 14::30:25] PhilippL: paveljanik: buttons ? As for acceleration they're the same thing, they just label themselves.

[2007-06-27 14::30:56] hdu_hh: ericb2: the special handling of ALT in the EditEngine was the problem => now the problem will be gone

[2007-06-27 14::31:37] ericb2: hdu_hh: can yo please be more precise ? There is a boolean in editeng.cxx , using deprecate MAC define, and I'm not sure to understand

[2007-06-27 14::31:42] ek: ericb2: we can try to change GetKeyModCode() in salframe.cxx.

[2007-06-27 14::31:49] ericb2: hdu_hh: sorry to look heavy, but that's not clear for me

[2007-06-27 14::32:06] hdu_hh: ericb2: the old define is not needed anymore

[2007-06-27 14::33:14] ericb2: ek: please continue

[2007-06-27 14::33:25] hdu_hh: ericb2: the problematic behaviour will not be triggered because the keyboard combination that triggered does not happen anymore (because ALT is remapped)

[2007-06-27 14::33:25] ericb2: ek: maybe you have a good idea :)

[2007-06-27 14::33:59] ek: ericb2: I mean just don't pass ALT in TSM handling.

[2007-06-27 14::34:15] ericb2: hdu_hh: you mean, OpenOfice.org will see MOD5 ( e.g. ) instead of ALT ?

[2007-06-27 14::34:25] PhilippL: ericb2: exactly.

[2007-06-27 14::34:43] hdu_hh: ericb2: yes, OOo especially EditEngine will only see MODx :-)

[2007-06-27 14::34:46] ericb2: ek: if it works, would solve a lot of things, but what for all text things e.g. greek chars using ALT + key ?

[2007-06-27 14::35:35] hdu_hh: ericb2: the greek chars work too (they just have a strange modifier key)

[2007-06-27 14::36:32] ericb2: hdu_hh: ok, good. then where is the code to be modified ?

[2007-06-27 14::36:49] PhilippL: ericb2: in salframe.cxx exchange MOD2 by MOD5

[2007-06-27 14::37:04] ericb2: PhilippL: just that ?

[2007-06-27 14::37:21] PhilippL: just that. At least that's what I would try first.

[2007-06-27 14::37:29] ericb2: PhilippL: I'll try now :)

[2007-06-27 14::38:23] PhilippL: looks

[2007-06-27 14::39:39] ericb2: PhilippL: thanks. I'll do

[2007-06-27 14::40:04] PhilippL: next point ?

[2007-06-27 14::40:14] ericb2: and file an issue assigned to pl or hdu_hh about removing underlined letters, right ?

[2007-06-27 14::40:42] PhilippL: ericb2: write the issue to me.

[2007-06-27 14::40:51] ericb2: PhilippL: ok

[2007-06-27 14::42:52] paveljanik: ok, I have to leave now - see you later

[2007-06-27 14::42:55] ¬ª paveljanik left the chat room.

[2007-06-27 14::43:13] ericb2: This is issue 78943

[2007-06-27 14::43:18] shaunmcdonald: Next Point: Any other business

[2007-06-27 14::43:21] IZBot: porting DEFECT NEW P3 remove underlined letters in all place (menus entries ..etc) http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=78943

[2007-06-27 14::44:59] shaunmcdonald: Next Point: Date and time of next meeting

[2007-06-27 14::45:28] PhilippL: same time next week ?

[2007-06-27 14::45:29] shaunmcdonald: Wednesday 4th of July

[2007-06-27 14::45:48] PhilippL: Is 4th of july bad for somebody from the US ?

[2007-06-27 14::47:02] shaunmcdonald: PhilippL: it is first thing in the morning for those in the US just now

[2007-06-27 14::47:26] PhilippL: shaunmcdonald: probably.

[2007-06-27 14::47:49] shaunmcdonald: thinks we have had participation from Japan today

[2007-06-27 14::47:51] hdu_hh: +1

[2007-06-27 14::48:26] shaunmcdonald: what about the time?

[2007-06-27 14::48:48] PhilippL: 12:00 UT is ok for me

[2007-06-27 14::49:02] shaunmcdonald: Lets go for that then

[2007-06-27 14::49:29] ¬ª You changed the topic to "[English] OpenOffice.org Mac porting team channel. Next IRC Meeting:Wednesday 4th July 2007 (*12*:00 UTC) See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings for the agenda. Previous meetings logs are available at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs | http://www.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua | http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2007".

Difference between revisions of "Log Mac Meeting 27 June 2007"

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-The time now is 12:00UTC[13:00
+[2007-06-27 13::00:31] shaunmcdonald: The time now is 12:00UTC
-] shaunmcdonald:
+[2007-06-27 13::01:00] ericb2: PhilippL: Bootstrap is just an example
-Meeting time?
+[2007-06-27 13::01:15] paveljanik: yes.
-[13:01]
+[2007-06-27 13::01:21] shaunmcdonald: 1. Welcome new devs joining Mac OS X port
-ericb2
+[2007-06-27 13::01:22] ericb2: completely forgot :)
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::01:33] PhilippL: ericb2: bootstrap is sort of common also, since so many things need to be bootstrapped (=initialized)
-PhilippL: Bootstrap is just an example[13:01
+[2007-06-27 13::01:43] ericb2: PhilippL: indeed
-] ericb2:
+[2007-06-27 13::03:35] ¬ª mav_eric joined the chat room.
-shaunmcdonald: ah, yes
+[2007-06-27 13::03:35] ¬ª mav_eric was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
-[13:01]
+[2007-06-27 13::03:58] shaunmcdonald: Are there any new developers here today?
-paveljanik
+[2007-06-27 13::05:28] paveljanik: probably no.
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::05:59] shaunmcdonald: lets move on then
-yes.
+[2007-06-27 13::06:55] PhilippL: work in progress: printing. Nothing to show yet, but perhaps tomorrow.
-[13:01]
+[2007-06-27 13::07:09] ericb2: PhilippL: wow :)
-shaunmcdonald
+[2007-06-27 13::07:25] mav_eric: PhilippL: would be great :-)
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::07:39] ericb2: aquavcl01 is now resync'ed with m217
-. Welcome new devs joining Mac OS X port
+[2007-06-27 13::07:42] PhilippL: There will however be a lot to do yet, e.g. native dialogs for printer settings.
-[13:01]
+[2007-06-27 13::08:30] hdu_hh: I'm looking into performance problems (that are probably caused by problematic handling of messages)
-ericb2
+[2007-06-27 13::09:15] mav_eric: PhilippL: One step after the other - no need to hurry :-)
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::10:39] ek: I've just started to investigate to use fallback fonts for ATSUI. hdu_hh: have you already work on it?
-• ericb2 completely forgot :)
+[2007-06-27 13::10:53] hdu_hh: ek: no, not yet
-[13:01]
+[2007-06-27 13::11:03] ek: I think it is needed for Japanese user.
-PhilippL
+[2007-06-27 13::11:38] ericb2: paveljanik: shortcuts is really impotant point. Why did you put your entries before in the list ?
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::12:19] hdu_hh: ek: probably. we should also define the default fonts for Writer/Calc/... on all Mac locales
-ericb2: bootstrap is sort of common also, since so many things need to be bootstrapped (=initialized)
+[2007-06-27 13::13:33] ¬ª UweAlt joined the chat room.
-[13:01]
+[2007-06-27 13::14:13] ek: hdu_hh: I think so too. Also if I use en_US build with English locale, files with Japanese name are not able to be recognized.
-ericb2
+[2007-06-27 13::14:34] paveljanik: ericb2: so it is ordered by the prio? Should I resort the list according to priorities completely?
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::15:05] ericb2: paveljanik: no, just repect the order. You add a point, please put it after the previous one. Thanks
-PhilippL: indeed[13:03]mav_eric joined the chat room.[13:03]mav_eric was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
+[2007-06-27 13::15:43] paveljanik: I'd prefer the sort order by connection with the similar topics.
-[13:03]
+[2007-06-27 13::16:21] ericb2: paveljanik: one more time you don't respect people
-shaunmcdonald
+[2007-06-27 13::16:39] paveljanik: ;-))
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::16:51] cloph: <sigh>again ericb2 takes stuff too personally</sigh>
-Are there any new developers here today?
+[2007-06-27 13::16:56] ericb2: cloph: no
-[13:05]
+[2007-06-27 13::16:56] paveljanik: ;-)
-paveljanik
+[2007-06-27 13::17:10] ericb2: since one year, we try to respect the agenda
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::17:11] shaunmcdonald: 2. Latest Aqua news / Work in progress
-probably no.
+[2007-06-27 13::17:26] ericb2: paveljanik: comesn and modify without ask. This is not correct. Dot
-[13:05]
+[2007-06-27 13::17:34] paveljanik: ;-) WIKI ;-)
-shaunmcdonald
+[2007-06-27 13::17:40] shaunmcdonald: next point is 3. aquavcl01 cws integration (part3)
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::17:42] hdu_hh: ek: Let's delay the discussion about the JP specific problems till we get to the matching issue on the agenda
-lets move on then[13:06
+[2007-06-27 13::17:57] ek: hdu_hh: Sure :)
-] shaunmcdonald:
+[2007-06-27 13::19:12] PhilippL: paveljanik: I'll spend friday with the reviews you wanted done for integration.
-. Latest Aqua news / Work in progress
+[2007-06-27 13::19:42] paveljanik: PhilippL: thank you very much! I'm doing the same for !vcl modules.
-[13:06]
+[2007-06-27 13::20:14] thorsten: yep
-PhilippL
+[2007-06-27 13::20:15] paveljanik: I trust tino on dtrans changes.
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::20:27] tino: paveljanik: Oh thanks! ;)
-work in progress: printing. Nothing to show yet, but perhaps tomorrow.
+[2007-06-27 13::20:27] ericb2: needs a QA for salaquatox11
-[13:07]
+[2007-06-27 13::22:41] paveljanik: ericb2: maybe obr is the best person here?
-ericb2
+[2007-06-27 13::24:07] obr: already read through all the changes until yesturday evening
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::24:22] paveljanik: thought so :-)
-PhilippL: wow :)
+[2007-06-27 13::25:27] ericb2: obr: will you be the QA resp. ?
-[13:07]
+[2007-06-27 13::25:55] paveljanik: I think the aquavcl01 status is clear now. Unfortunately I'll be away next week because of long planned holiday, so I can't help more next week.
-mav_eric
+[2007-06-27 13::27:07] obr: ericb2: yeah, makes sense. BTW: maybe we should add a comment to module.c changes explaining dlopen expects absolute paths on MacOS X
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::27:22] PhilippL: I think we'll get it integrated with jogi's help in the time.
-PhilippL:  would be great :-)
+[2007-06-27 13::27:51] tino: PhilippL: I think so too
-[13:07]
+[2007-06-27 13::28:31] paveljanik: Yes. But sunrayjogi can help us only when we make it ready for integration... And we did lot of progress ;-)
-ericb2
+[2007-06-27 13::29:03] ericb2: About aqua issue. Yedterday, we had :
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::30:22] obr: ericb2: o.k.
-aquavcl01 is now resync'ed with m217
+[2007-06-27 13::30:39] ericb2: I'll close the alpha once printing will work
-[13:07]
+[2007-06-27 13::31:22] PhilippL: tino: we should adjust the target of aquavcl01 as well as the target on the contained issues.
-PhilippL
+[2007-06-27 13::32:18] tino: PhilippL: Are you talking about the "Approved by QA" date?
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::32:40] PhilippL: tino: no, we're aiming for 2.3 now, most issues and the CWS are for 3.0
-There will however be a lot to do yet, e.g. native dialogs for printer settings.
+[2007-06-27 13::33:16] tino: PhilippL: Ah ok got it
-[13:08]
+[2007-06-27 13::33:43] paveljanik: yes, we should do this at the end of our journey once for all issues - 2.3 and aquavcl01's target 2.3.
-hdu_hh
+[2007-06-27 13::33:56] cloph: PhilippL: In the query results (Issue list), use the "change multiple issues at once" link below the list..
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::34:05] paveljanik: But now we should also walk over aqua keyworded issues that are fixed in aquavcl01 and are not in the issue list.
-I'm looking into performance problems (that are probably caused by problematic handling of messages)
+[2007-06-27 13::35:01] tino: PhilippL: I guess target is OOo 2.3, the same applies to the issues(?)
-[13:09]
+[2007-06-27 13::35:12] PhilippL: tino: I'd say so, yes.
-mav_eric
+[2007-06-27 13::36:02] shaunmcdonald: 4. aquafilepicker01 integration
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::36:43] tino: paveljanik, PhilippL: Ok, cws target adapted to OOo2.3, looks as if Pavel will take care to set the issue targets accordingly
-PhilippL:  One step after the other - no need to hurry :-)
+[2007-06-27 13::36:49] paveljanik: The current status is that there are two crashers. Florian will try to get both fixed before I leave for vacation, so it is on good way and I believe it will be integrated even before aquavcl01.
-[13:10]
+[2007-06-27 13::37:10] PhilippL: paveljanik: That's good news
-ek
+[2007-06-27 13::37:23] tino: paveljanik: thx
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::38:33] paveljanik: if Florian won't fix it before my leave, we will continue once I'm back.
-I've just started to investigate to use fallback fonts for ATSUI.  hdu_hh: have you already work on it?
+[2007-06-27 13::40:05] shaunmcdonald: 5. testtool and its packaging in the application bundle
-[13:10]
+[2007-06-27 13::40:42] paveljanik: 5. development after aquavcl01
-hdu_hh
+[2007-06-27 13::41:18] shaunmcdonald: sees someone has changed the agenda
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::41:27] paveljanik: 1. regular: feature per cws, qa etc.
-ek: no, not yet
+[2007-06-27 13::41:50] ¬ª dave_largo joined the chat room.
-[13:11]
+[2007-06-27 13::42:07] paveljanik: 2. was a cws opened for some time and all people added issues to it and fixed issues there and then Sun QA did the QA on it.
-ek
+[2007-06-27 13::43:23] shaunmcdonald: Major features to use 1. minor fixes to use 2. would sound sensible
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::43:24] paveljanik: The same model as we used with fpicker01.
-I think it is needed for Japanese user.
+[2007-06-27 13::43:40] PhilippL: I'd open aquavcl02 and continue working on it like on aquavcl01. Of course other features that are independent can go into their own CWS.
-[13:11]
+[2007-06-27 13::43:43] paveljanik: aquavcl01 is "community" cws, aquafpicker01 was specific feature.
-ericb2
+[2007-06-27 13::44:08] ek: I'd prefer 2. because we have to do a lot of minor improvement of aqua vcl specific things.
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::45:04] paveljanik: I also think that aquavcl02 will be more important when we have the current half-of-all-OOo-modules-cws integrated ;-)
-paveljanik: shortcuts is really impotant point. Why did you put your entries before in the list ?
+[2007-06-27 13::45:09] PhilippL: We can have both. There is too much to do yet before we can consider vcl/aqua mostly featurecomplete.
-[13:12]
+[2007-06-27 13::45:31] paveljanik: yes. But I do not want to close the way to 1.
-hdu_hh
+[2007-06-27 13::46:00] PhilippL: So I suggest aquavcl02 for ongoning general aquaport, and separate things like dialogs can go into their own CWS.
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::46:22] paveljanik: PhilippL: +1
-ek: probably. we should also define the default fonts for Writer/Calc/... on all Mac locales[13:13]UweAlt joined the chat room.
+[2007-06-27 13::46:26] ericb2: PhilippL: +1 for aquavcl02 + and other specific cws. The most important is once aquavcl01 no need to hack to have something building
-[13:14]
+[2007-06-27 13::46:30] ismael_: PhilippL: +1
-ek
+[2007-06-27 13::46:32] PhilippL: paveljanik: only in theory. The first thing I'll do is merge in the things from aquavcl01 while it is not integrated.
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::47:06] paveljanik: PhilippL: this is maintenance nightmare when something gets changed in aquavcl01 after this process.
-hdu_hh: I think so too.  Also if I use en_US build with English locale, files with Japanese name are not able to be recognized.
+[2007-06-27 13::47:36] PhilippL: paveljanik: no, since a resync to a master containing aquavcl01 is of course a must.
-[13:14]
+[2007-06-27 13::47:53] paveljanik: yes, this I call "maintenance nightmare" ;-)
-paveljanik
+[2007-06-27 13::47:57] PhilippL: paveljanik: after that the diff should be zero.
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::48:02] paveljanik: yes.
-ericb2: so it is ordered by the prio? Should I resort the list according to priorities completely?[13:14
+[2007-06-27 13::48:25] PhilippL: paveljanik: It's work, yes, but I cannot simply stop for two weeks.
-] paveljanik:
+[2007-06-27 13::48:46] paveljanik: PhilippL: yes, I know. This is the drawback of 2. and benefit of 1. ;-)
-shaunmcdonald: next point?
+[2007-06-27 13::51:09] shaunmcdonald: 6. testtool and its packaging in the application bundle
-[13:15]
+[2007-06-27 13::51:32] paveljanik: I've got testool running yesterday by hacking the installed application.
-ericb2
+[2007-06-27 13::52:21] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: that's the way that many other apps do small support applications
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::52:26] paveljanik: This could be quite effective way to get tt packaged in the application bundle.
-paveljanik: no, just repect the order. You add a point, please put it after the previous one. Thanks
+[2007-06-27 13::52:37] PhilippL: paveljanik: how does this work ? Can we use it for our wrappers (swriter, sdraw, etc.) ?
-[13:15]
+[2007-06-27 13::52:45] paveljanik: shaunmcdonald: 8) I was not aware of practices, thus I was about to ask for experience about this ;-)
-paveljanik
+[2007-06-27 13::53:15] ericb2: paveljanik: why not use TPT ?
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::53:22] paveljanik: http://tmp.janik.cz/OpenOffice.org/MacOSX/native_testtool.txt
-I'd prefer the sort order by connection with the similar topics.
+[2007-06-27 13::54:18] shaunmcdonald: it might be worth looking at ClamXav, they have a small menu bar app in the resources folder
-[13:15]
+[2007-06-27 13::54:20] paveljanik: But I think if TPT works better, it should be used instead.
-paveljanik
+[2007-06-27 13::54:31] ericb2: paveljanik: I think so too
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::54:56] paveljanik: There were several issues though.
-sorting by your method is ineffective.
+[2007-06-27 13::56:17] mav_eric: what's TPT?
-[13:16]
+[2007-06-27 13::56:36] paveljanik: This could help us a lot to 1. get respect to our work 2. do our work as a regular development.
-ericb2
+[2007-06-27 13::56:40] ericb2: paveljanik: I already tested in svmainhook.cxx and testtool was responding
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::56:53] paveljanik: ericb2: did you also run some tests with it?
-paveljanik: one more time you don't respect people
+[2007-06-27 13::57:17] ericb2: paveljanik: I'll do. Just program ( hardcoded ) has to be hacked
-[13:16]
+[2007-06-27 13::57:19] paveljanik: forgot its real name ;-)
-paveljanik
+[2007-06-27 13::57:20] mav_eric: paveljanik: thanks
-:
+[2007-06-27 13::57:39] paveljanik: ericb2: so will you look at it?
-;-))[13:16
+[2007-06-27 13::58:04] ericb2: paveljanik: I just want to verify if TPT solves the backgorund/forground issue
-] paveljanik:
+[2007-06-27 13::58:24] paveljanik: ericb2: ok, then I'll continue the work afterwards.
-yes.
+[2007-06-27 13::58:43] ericb2: paveljanik: I'll add the change into swmainhook.cxx
-[13:16]
+[2007-06-27 13::59:11] paveljanik: ericb2: not yet please. Create an issue about it and we will see how it should work and who and where should call it.
-cloph
+[2007-06-27 14::00:39] ¬ª doctype joined the chat room.
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::00:53] shaunmcdonald: 7. define shortcuts in the entire application (was initialy : ALT does not work in formulas, issue 78847)
-<sigh>again ericb2 takes stuff too personally</sigh>
+[2007-06-27 14::00:57] IZBot: porting DEFECT NEW P3 ALT does not work in formulas http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=78847
-[13:16]
+[2007-06-27 14::01:42] ericb2: Little issue, big effects
-ericb2
+[2007-06-27 14::02:14] hdu_hh: the ALT-key on Mac means something totally different than on other platforms
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::02:17] ericb2: ALT is not available, and thus, { [ } ] \ .. etc are not working
-cloph: no
+[2007-06-27 14::02:22] PhilippL: yes. Let's disable Alt modifier and see how far that get's us.
-[13:16]
+[2007-06-27 14::03:11] ericb2: PhilippL: I prefer the seond option
-paveljanik
+[2007-06-27 14::03:44] hdu_hh: we should also disable the shortcut underlines then
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::04:11] PhilippL: certainly. At the moment they don't work anyway :-)
-              ;-)           [13:17
+[2007-06-27 14::04:12] ericb2: hdu_hh: I think this is correct on Mac O SX
-] paveljanik:
+[2007-06-27 14::04:30] hdu_hh: yes, only on OSX
-shaunmcdonald: what is the current point?
+[2007-06-27 14::05:50] ericb2: hdu_hh , PhilippL can we have a complete view of where shortcuts are used, and (better) where it is located in the code ?
-[13:17]
+[2007-06-27 14::07:38] PhilippL: ericb2: shortcuts are used everywhere in the UI, but the handling is in vcl/source/window/accmgr.cxx
-ericb2
+[2007-06-27 14::08:12] shaunmcdonald: PhilippL: what's the difference?
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::08:43] PhilippL: One (the shortcut ?) is active all the time. Example: Ctrl-O opens the file dialog.
-since one year, we try to respect the agenda
+[2007-06-27 14::10:00] ericb2: PhilippL: we don't need the second one on Mac OS X, this is not really Aqua HIG compliant
-[13:17]
+[2007-06-27 14::10:03] shaunmcdonald: many buttons in dialogs have accelerators on Mac OS X
-shaunmcdonald
+[2007-06-27 14::10:05] cloph: calls the "underlined letters in the menu" mnemonics...
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::10:08] PhilippL: Shortcuts (I think) are exclujsively menu entries that can be triggered even while the menu is not open.
-. Latest Aqua news / Work in progress
+[2007-06-27 14::10:24] cloph: (menu or dialogs)
-[13:17]
+[2007-06-27 14::10:50] PhilippL: Anyway it will bve simple not to draw the underlines.
-ericb2
+[2007-06-27 14::11:33] paveljanik: volunteer to file an issue to PhilippL? ;-)
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::11:52] shaunmcdonald: for example: open text edit, type some text, so that you modifiy the document, them press cmd+w to close. You will be asked to confirm the close without saving. You can use cmd+d to close without saving
-paveljanik: comesn and modify without ask. This is not correct. Dot
+[2007-06-27 14::12:26] ericb2: PhilippL: when I adde modifier5 on X11 version, I used to modify : vcl/source/window/key* .cxx and corresponding headers + some other like winproc.cxx. Was it not the good place ? Last, with Thomas Lange help, I now konw where is located the code for equations ( in svx/source/editeng/editeng.cxx )
-[13:17]
+[2007-06-27 14::12:49] ek: PhilippL: Also not to draw additional (F) for "File" aqua menu in JA locale.
-paveljanik
+[2007-06-27 14::13:26] PhilippL: ek: that's a separate issue, but we can do that easily, too, I think.
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::13:44] ¬ª doctype left the chat room.
-;-) WIKI ;-)
+[2007-06-27 14::13:50] ek: PhilippL: ok. sorry for separate issue...
-[13:17]
+[2007-06-27 14::14:14] PhilippL: ek: don't be :-) We'll just want another issue filed.
-shaunmcdonald
+[2007-06-27 14::14:53] ericb2: hdu_hh: what is not clear is : " where is what in the sources"
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::14:54] PhilippL: As we can see there's already lots in the pipe for aquavcl02 :-)
-next point is 3. aquavcl01 cws integration (part3)
+[2007-06-27 14::14:57] ek: PhilippL: sure. I'm too ignorant about internal of OOo :)
-[13:17]
+[2007-06-27 14::15:31] hdu_hh: ericb2: can you rephrase the question?
-hdu_hh
+[2007-06-27 14::16:38] ericb2: hdu_hh: I think we need some documentation. Shorcuts, accelerators, when they are available ..etc. Then we could do a correct choice if what keep, and what remove
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::17:09] paveljanik: ericb2: the correct choice can be done by reading the AHIG and removing what should be removed.
-ek: Let's delay the discussion about the JP specific problems till we get to the matching issue on the agenda
+[2007-06-27 14::17:25] ericb2: paveljanik: this is not enough
-[13:17]
+[2007-06-27 14::17:31] paveljanik: ok.
-ek
+[2007-06-27 14::17:45] ericb2: paveljanik: Base, Calc, and several other use all something, in different ways
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::18:57] ismael_: for your information, here are listed all the keyboard shortcut of the AHIG: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGKeyboardShortcuts/chapter_20_section_1.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40002725-CHDIGFBH
-hdu_hh: Sure :)
+[2007-06-27 14::18:58] paveljanik: menu.cxx:
-[13:19]
+[2007-06-27 14::19:03] ericb2: e.g. I use a lot Formulas for equations, and as of today, nothing works
-PhilippL
+[2007-06-27 14::19:10] paveljanik: can we disable accelerators by configuration?
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::19:53] ericb2: paveljanik: if I'm not too wrong, mayve some xml file have a list of accelerators, but I'm not too sure
-paveljanik: I'll spend friday with the reviews you wanted done for integration.
+[2007-06-27 14::19:59] ¬ª realityking left the chat room.
-[13:19]
+[2007-06-27 14::20:06] PhilippL: Do we want to disable the accelerators or just their being drawn ?
-paveljanik
+[2007-06-27 14::20:46] paveljanik: so: accelerators are e.g. Cmd+Q shown in the menus. We want to keep them. Definitely.
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::20:48] ericb2: PhilippL: if we can have formlas working and acelerators, we'll keep all : some people using Windows or Linux OpenOffice.org will cry if things are different
-PhilippL: thank you very much! I'm doing the same for !vcl modules.[13:20
+[2007-06-27 14::21:15] PhilippL: I thought so.
-] paveljanik:
+[2007-06-27 14::21:21] ericb2: PhilippL: currently we don't know where things are , and how it works
-thorsten: can you please review basebmp changes in aquavcl01?
+[2007-06-27 14::21:22] paveljanik: We mix too many things at once ;-)
-[13:20]
+[2007-06-27 14::21:25] hdu_hh: ericb2: applications suggest accelerators using the translated UI-strings
-thorsten
+[2007-06-27 14::21:33] paveljanik: hdu_hh: no.
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::22:50] hdu_hh: paveljanik: CMD+Q is a shortcut
-yep
+[2007-06-27 14::23:16] PhilippL: cloph is right, let's talk about mnemonics. And we don't want to draw them, right ?
-[13:20]
+[2007-06-27 14::23:54] shaunmcdonald: thinks we need a clear definition of: mnemonic, shortcut and accelerator; so that we all have a common understanding
-paveljanik
+[2007-06-27 14::23:57] paveljanik: hdu_hh: not in VCL terminology. Or at least they are called accelerators there ;-)
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::24:25] PhilippL: The mnemonic is the actual key event + it's visual representation for either a shortcut or acceleartor. But we digress.
-I trust tino on dtrans changes.[13:20
+[2007-06-27 14::25:00] ericb2: PhilippL: where exactly : in all places ?
-] paveljanik:
+[2007-06-27 14::25:01] paveljanik: yes
-thorsten: thanks.
+[2007-06-27 14::25:13] PhilippL: yes, everywhere.
-[13:20]
+[2007-06-27 14::25:21] ek: PhilippL: yes
-tino
+[2007-06-27 14::25:22] shaunmcdonald: +1 for removing the underlined letters in all places
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::25:25] PhilippL: wouldn't make real sense to do it just in one place.
-paveljanik: Oh thanks! ;)
+[2007-06-27 14::26:01] shaunmcdonald: PhilippL: what do you mean by: Plus the (F) in menu entries. ?
-[13:20]
+[2007-06-27 14::26:14] ericb2: cannot find the F in menu entries
-ericb2
+[2007-06-27 14::26:21] ek: shaunmcdonald: It is for translted menu like JA locale.
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::26:25] PhilippL: shaunmcdonald: In many languages the actual shortcut for a menu is a latin character
-• ericb2 needs a QA for salaquatox11
+[2007-06-27 14::26:48] shaunmcdonald: PhilippL: ek: ah ok
-[13:22]
+[2007-06-27 14::26:54] ¬ª bm_ joined the chat room.
-paveljanik
+[2007-06-27 14::28:47] PhilippL: next point ?
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::28:51] paveljanik: BTW - where we show underscores? There are no in native menus. There are underscores in X11 menus (I think we should left them intact there).
-ericb2: maybe obr is the best person here?
+[2007-06-27 14::28:52] ericb2: Can we summarize ?
-[13:24]
+[2007-06-27 14::29:00] paveljanik: buttons?
-obr
+[2007-06-27 14::29:06] ericb2: PhilippL: what about Formulas ?
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::29:19] IZBot: porting DEFECT NEW P3 ALT does not work in formulas http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=78847
-• obr already read through all the changes until yesturday evening
+[2007-06-27 14::29:38] PhilippL: ericb2: Well, we wanted to map Alt to a different modifier, so that should take care of ut ?
-[13:24]
+[2007-06-27 14::29:38] paveljanik: ah yes, e.g. in Preferences, there are many underscores.
-paveljanik
+[2007-06-27 14::30:15] ericb2: PhilippL: you think remap ALT should sollve the issue ?
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::30:25] PhilippL: paveljanik: buttons ? As for acceleration they're the same thing, they just label themselves.
-• paveljanik thought so :-)
+[2007-06-27 14::30:56] hdu_hh: ericb2: the special handling of ALT in the EditEngine was the problem => now the problem will be gone
-[13:25]
+[2007-06-27 14::31:37] ericb2: hdu_hh: can yo please be more precise ? There is a boolean in editeng.cxx , using deprecate MAC define, and I'm not sure to understand
-ericb2
+[2007-06-27 14::31:42] ek: ericb2: we can try to change GetKeyModCode() in salframe.cxx.
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::31:49] ericb2: hdu_hh: sorry to look heavy, but that's not clear for me
-obr: will you be the QA resp.  ?
+[2007-06-27 14::32:06] hdu_hh: ericb2: the old define is not needed anymore
-[13:25]
+[2007-06-27 14::33:14] ericb2: ek: please continue
-paveljanik
+[2007-06-27 14::33:25] hdu_hh: ericb2: the problematic behaviour will not be triggered because the keyboard combination that triggered does not happen anymore (because ALT is remapped)
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::33:25] ericb2: ek: maybe you have a good idea :)
-I think the aquavcl01 status is clear now. Unfortunately I'll be away next week because of long planned holiday, so I can't help more next week.
+[2007-06-27 14::33:59] ek: ericb2: I mean just don't pass ALT in TSM handling.
-[13:27]
+[2007-06-27 14::34:15] ericb2: hdu_hh: you mean, OpenOfice.org will see MOD5 ( e.g. ) instead of ALT ?
-obr
+[2007-06-27 14::34:25] PhilippL: ericb2: exactly.
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::34:43] hdu_hh: ericb2: yes, OOo especially EditEngine will only see MODx :-)
-ericb2: yeah, makes sense. BTW: maybe we should add a comment to module.c changes explaining dlopen expects absolute paths on MacOS X
+[2007-06-27 14::34:46] ericb2: ek: if it works, would solve a lot of things, but what for all text things e.g. greek chars using ALT + key ?
-[13:27]
+[2007-06-27 14::35:35] hdu_hh: ericb2: the greek chars work too (they just have a strange modifier key)
-PhilippL
+[2007-06-27 14::36:32] ericb2: hdu_hh: ok, good. then where is the code to be modified ?
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::36:49] PhilippL: ericb2: in salframe.cxx exchange MOD2 by MOD5
-I think we'll get it integrated with jogi's help in the time.
+[2007-06-27 14::37:04] ericb2: PhilippL: just that ?
-[13:27]
+[2007-06-27 14::37:21] PhilippL: just that. At least that's what I would try first.
-tino
+[2007-06-27 14::37:29] ericb2: PhilippL: I'll try now :)
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::38:23] PhilippL: looks
-PhilippL: I think so too
+[2007-06-27 14::39:39] ericb2: PhilippL: thanks. I'll do
-[13:28]
+[2007-06-27 14::40:04] PhilippL: next point ?
-paveljanik
+[2007-06-27 14::40:14] ericb2: and file an issue assigned to pl or hdu_hh about removing underlined letters, right ?
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::40:42] PhilippL: ericb2: write the issue to me.
-Yes. But sunrayjogi can help us only when we make it ready for integration... And we did lot of progress ;-)
+[2007-06-27 14::40:51] ericb2: PhilippL: ok
-[13:29]
+[2007-06-27 14::42:52] paveljanik: ok, I have to leave now - see you later
-ericb2
+[2007-06-27 14::42:55] ¬ª paveljanik left the chat room.
-:
+[2007-06-27 14::43:13] ericb2: This is issue 78943
-About aqua issue. Yedterday, we had :[13:29
+[2007-06-27 14::43:18] shaunmcdonald: Next Point: Any other business
-] ericb2:
+[2007-06-27 14::43:21] IZBot: porting DEFECT NEW P3 remove underlined letters in all place (menus entries ..etc) http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=78943
-issues with aqua keyword[13:29
+[2007-06-27 14::44:59] shaunmcdonald: Next Point: Date and time of next meeting
-] ericb2:
+[2007-06-27 14::45:28] PhilippL: same time next week ?
-  Unconfirmed[13:29
+[2007-06-27 14::45:29] shaunmcdonald: Wednesday 4th of July
-] ericb2:
+[2007-06-27 14::45:48] PhilippL: Is 4th of july bad for somebody from the US ?
-New[13:29
+[2007-06-27 14::47:02] shaunmcdonald: PhilippL: it is first thing in the morning for those in the US just now
-] ericb2:
+[2007-06-27 14::47:26] PhilippL: shaunmcdonald: probably.
-Started[13:29
+[2007-06-27 14::47:49] shaunmcdonald: thinks we have had participation from Japan today
-] ericb2:
+[2007-06-27 14::47:51] hdu_hh: +1
-  Reopen[13:29
+[2007-06-27 14::48:26] shaunmcdonald: what about the time?
-] ericb2:
+[2007-06-27 14::48:48] PhilippL: 12:00 UT is ok for me
-Fixed[13:29
+[2007-06-27 14::49:02] shaunmcdonald: Lets go for that then
-] ericb2:
+[2007-06-27 14::49:29] ¬ª You changed the topic to "[English] OpenOffice.org Mac porting team channel. Next IRC Meeting:Wednesday 4th July 2007 (*12*:00 UTC) See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings for the agenda. Previous meetings logs are available at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs | http://www.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua | http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2007".
+[[Category:MacOSX/Minutes]]
-obr: I'll add the comment, and put your name as QA responder just after, and set the cws as Ready for QA[13:30
-] ericb2:
-all changes since last week : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb#Changelog
-[13:30]
-obr
-:
-ericb2: o.k.
-[13:30]
-ericb2
-:
-I'll close the alpha once printing will work[13:30
-] ericb2:
-and then start beta list
-[13:31]
-PhilippL
-:
-tino: we should adjust the target of aquavcl01 as well as the target on the contained issues.
-[13:32]
-tino
-:
-PhilippL: Are you talking about the "Approved by QA" date?
-[13:32]
-PhilippL
-:
-tino: no, we're aiming for 2.3 now, most issues and the CWS are for 3.0[13:33
-] PhilippL:
-tino: Is there a way in IssueZilla or EIS to set multiple issues to a single target ?
-[13:33]
-tino
-:
-PhilippL: Ah ok got it
-[13:33]
-paveljanik
-:
-yes, we should do this at the end of our journey once for all issues - 2.3 and aquavcl01's target 2.3.
-[13:33]
-cloph
-:
-PhilippL: In the query results (Issue list), use the "change multiple issues at once" link below the list..
-[13:34]
-paveljanik
-:
-But now we should also walk over aqua keyworded issues that are fixed in aquavcl01 and are not in the issue list.[13:34
-] paveljanik:
-this all is still on my todo.[13:34
-] paveljanik:
-next point?
-[13:35]
-tino
-:
-PhilippL: I guess target is OOo 2.3, the same applies to the issues(?)
-[13:35]
-PhilippL
-:
-tino: I'd say so, yes.
-[13:36]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-. aquafilepicker01 integration
-[13:36]
-tino
-:
-paveljanik, PhilippL: Ok, cws target adapted to OOo2.3, looks as if Pavel will take care to set the issue targets accordingly
-[13:36]
-paveljanik
-:
-The current status is that there are two crashers. Florian will try to get both fixed before I leave for vacation, so it is on good way and I believe it will be integrated even before aquavcl01.[13:37
-] paveljanik:
-tino: yes, I'll do it once finished with all issues.
-[13:37]
-PhilippL
-:
-paveljanik: That's good news
-[13:37]
-tino
-:
-paveljanik: thx
-[13:38]
-paveljanik
-:
-if Florian won't fix it before my leave, we will continue once I'm back.[13:38
-] paveljanik:
-but this will definitely get into 2.3 because it is completely safe for other platforms.
-[13:40]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-. testtool and its packaging in the application bundle
-[13:40]
-paveljanik
-:
-. development after aquavcl01[13:40
-] paveljanik:
-?=0[13:40
-] paveljanik:
-              ;-)           [13:41
-] paveljanik:
-there are several ways to continue development after aquavcl01:
-[13:41]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-• shaunmcdonald sees someone has changed the agenda
-[13:41]
-paveljanik
-:
-. regular: feature per cws, qa etc.[13:41
-] paveljanik:
-. the old "community cwses" - do you remember them?[13:41]dave_largo joined the chat room.
-[13:42]
-paveljanik
-:
-. was a cws opened for some time and all people added issues to it and fixed issues there and then Sun QA did the QA on it.[13:42
-] paveljanik:
-I think we could now benefit from *both* approaches...
-[13:42]
-paveljanik
-:
-What do you think?[13:43
-] paveljanik:
-I can imagine e.g. print dialog being developed in separate cws and another cws for minor common fixes opened for all people.
-[13:43]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-Major features to use 1. minor fixes to use 2. would sound sensible
-[13:43]
-paveljanik
-:
-The same model as we used with fpicker01.
-[13:43]
-PhilippL
-:
-I'd open aquavcl02 and continue working on it like on aquavcl01. Of course other features that are independent can go into their own CWS.
-[13:43]
-paveljanik
-:
-aquavcl01 is "community" cws, aquafpicker01 was specific feature.
-[13:44]
-ek
-:
-I'd prefer 2. because we have to do a lot of minor improvement of aqua vcl specific things.
-[13:45]
-paveljanik
-:
-I also think that aquavcl02 will be more important when we have the current half-of-all-OOo-modules-cws integrated ;-)
-[13:45]
-PhilippL
-:
-We can have both. There is too much to do yet before we can consider vcl/aqua mostly featurecomplete.
-[13:45]
-paveljanik
-:
-yes. But I do not want to close the way to 1.[13:45
-] paveljanik:
-. has one drawback.[13:45
-] paveljanik:
-when it is in ready for QA phase, it will almost stop the development.
-[13:46]
-PhilippL
-:
-So I suggest aquavcl02 for ongoning general aquaport, and separate things like dialogs can go into their own CWS.
-[13:46]
-paveljanik
-:
-PhilippL: +1
-[13:46]
-ericb2
-:
-PhilippL: +1 for aquavcl02 + and other specific cws. The most important is once aquavcl01 no need to hack to have something building
-[13:46]
-ismael_
-:
-PhilippL: +1
-[13:46]
-PhilippL
-:
-paveljanik: only in theory. The first thing I'll do is merge in the things from aquavcl01 while it is not integrated.
-[13:47]
-paveljanik
-:
-PhilippL: this is maintenance nightmare when something gets changed in aquavcl01 after this process.[13:47
-] paveljanik:
-but it is doable, yes.
-[13:47]
-PhilippL
-:
-paveljanik: no, since a resync to a master containing aquavcl01 is of course a must.
-[13:47]
-paveljanik
-:
-yes, this I call "maintenance nightmare" ;-)
-[13:47]
-PhilippL
-:
-paveljanik: after that the diff should be zero.
-[13:48]
-paveljanik
-:
-yes.
-[13:48]
-PhilippL
-:
-paveljanik: It's work, yes, but I cannot simply stop for two weeks.
-[13:48]
-paveljanik
-:
-PhilippL: yes, I know. This is the drawback of 2. and benefit of 1. ;-)
-[13:49]
-paveljanik
-:
-but anyway, I think we will open aquavcl02 and then decide case by case ;-)[13:49
-] paveljanik:
-ok, next point?
-[13:51]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-. testtool and its packaging in the application bundle
-[13:51]
-paveljanik
-:
-I've got testool running yesterday by hacking the installed application.[13:51
-] paveljanik:
-(creating application bundle inside OpenOffice 2.3.app application bundle.[13:51
-] paveljanik:
-)
-[13:52]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-paveljanik: that's the way that many other apps do small support applications
-[13:52]
-paveljanik
-:
-This could be quite effective way to get tt packaged in the application bundle.
-[13:52]
-PhilippL
-:
-paveljanik: how does this work ? Can we use it for our wrappers (swriter, sdraw, etc.) ?
-[13:52]
-paveljanik
-:
-shaunmcdonald: 8) I was not aware of practices, thus I was about to ask for experience about this ;-)[13:53
-] paveljanik:
-PhilippL: I uploaded the script to hack the bundle, mmnt.
-[13:53]
-ericb2
-:
-paveljanik: why not use TPT ?
-[13:53]
-paveljanik
-:
-      http://tmp.janik.cz/OpenOffice.org/MacOSX/native_testtool.txt     [13:54
-] paveljanik:
-ericb2: this is another possibility, but I'm not aware of any tests that everything works with it. With this method, everything works perfectly.
-[13:54]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-it might be worth looking at ClamXav, they have a small menu bar app in the resources folder
-[13:54]
-paveljanik
-:
-But I think if TPT works better, it should be used instead.
-[13:54]
-ericb2
-:
-paveljanik: I think so too
-[13:54]
-paveljanik
-:
-There were several issues though.[13:55
-] paveljanik:
-. application naming 2. directory naming[13:55
-] paveljanik:
-Thus I had to add two hack-symbolic-links[13:56
-] paveljanik:
-I think I'll work on this (TPT, bundling) more to get regular application/bundle/whatever so people can start normal testtool tests as they do in X11.
-[13:56]
-mav_eric
-:
-what's TPT?
-[13:56]
-paveljanik
-:
-This could help us a lot to 1. get respect to our work 2. do our work as a regular development.
-[13:56]
-ericb2
-:
-paveljanik: I already tested in svmainhook.cxx and testtool was responding
-[13:56]
-paveljanik
-:
-ericb2: did you also run some tests with it?
-[13:57]
-paveljanik
-:
-mav_eric: it is a function which brings any app to the foreground, to accept events etc.
-[13:57]
-ericb2
-:
-paveljanik: I'll do. Just program ( hardcoded ) has to be hacked
-[13:57]
-paveljanik
-:
-• paveljanik forgot its real name ;-)
-[13:57]
-mav_eric
-:
-paveljanik:  thanks
-[13:57]
-paveljanik
-:
-ericb2: so will you look at it?
-[13:58]
-ericb2
-:
-paveljanik: I just want to verify if TPT solves the backgorund/forground issue[13:58
-] ericb2:
-paveljanik: for the packging, I'll let you do
-[13:58]
-paveljanik
-:
-ericb2: ok, then I'll continue the work afterwards.[13:58
-] paveljanik:
-I think this is more important than other stuff.
-[13:58]
-ericb2
-:
-paveljanik: I'll add the change into swmainhook.cxx
-[13:59]
-paveljanik
-:
-ericb2: not yet please. Create an issue about it and we will see how it should work and who and where should call it.[14:00
-] paveljanik:
-we are pretty fast today :-)[14:00
-] paveljanik:
-next point?[14:00]doctype joined the chat room.
-[14:00]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-. define shortcuts in the entire application (was initialy : ALT does not work in formulas, issue 78847)
-[14:00]
-IZBot
-:
-porting DEFECT NEW P3 ALT does not work in formulas http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=78847
-[14:01]
-ericb2
-:
-Little issue, big effects
-[14:02]
-hdu_hh
-:
-the ALT-key on Mac means something totally different than on other platforms
-[14:02]
-ericb2
-:
-ALT is not available, and thus, { [ } ] \  .. etc are not working
-[14:02]
-PhilippL
-:
-yes. Let's disable Alt modifier and see how far that get's us.[14:02
-] PhilippL:
-And/Or let's map Alt on Mac to a different modifier than Mod2
-[14:03]
-ericb2
-:
-PhilippL:  I prefer the seond option[14:03
-] ericb2:
-PhilippL: currently, modifier 5 is used on X11, and it works[14:03
-] ericb2:
-PhilippL: but mod 3 or another should work too
-[14:03]
-hdu_hh
-:
-we should also disable the shortcut underlines then
-[14:04]
-PhilippL
-:
-certainly. At the moment they don't work anyway :-)
-[14:04]
-ericb2
-:
-hdu_hh: I think this is correct on Mac O SX
-[14:04]
-hdu_hh
-:
-yes, only on OSX
-[14:05]
-ericb2
-:
-hdu_hh , PhilippL can we have a complete view of where shortcuts are used, and (better) where it is located in the code ?
-[14:07]
-PhilippL
-:
-ericb2: shortcuts are used everywhere in the UI, but the handling is in vcl/source/window/accmgr.cxx[14:07
-] PhilippL:
-unless I just confused accelerators with shortcuts again :-(
-[14:08]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-PhilippL: what's the difference?[14:08]• shaunmcdonald thinks they are 2 names for the same thing
-[14:08]
-PhilippL
-:
-One (the shortcut ?) is active all the time. Example: Ctrl-O opens the file dialog.[14:09
-] PhilippL:
-The other is active in dialog, example: alt-c gets the focus in a dialog to the field labeled with c
-[14:10]
-ericb2
-:
-PhilippL: we don't need the second one on Mac OS X, this is not really Aqua HIG compliant
-[14:10]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-many buttons in dialogs have accelerators on Mac OS X
-[14:10]
-cloph
-:
-• cloph calls the "underlined letters in the menu" mnemonics...
-[14:10]
-PhilippL
-:
-Shortcuts (I think) are exclujsively menu entries that can be triggered even while the menu is not open.
-[14:10]
-cloph
-:
-(menu or dialogs)
-[14:10]
-PhilippL
-:
-Anyway it will bve simple not to draw the underlines.
-[14:11]
-paveljanik
-:
-volunteer to file an issue to PhilippL? ;-)
-[14:11]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-for example: open text edit, type some text, so that you modifiy the document, them press cmd+w to close. You will be asked to confirm the close without saving. You can use cmd+d to close without saving[14:12
-] shaunmcdonald:
-also esc works for cancel and return works for save
-[14:12]
-ericb2
-:
-PhilippL: when I adde modifier5 on X11 version, I used to modify : vcl/source/window/key* .cxx and corresponding headers + some other like winproc.cxx. Was it not the good place ? Last, with Thomas Lange help, I now konw where is located the code for equations  ( in svx/source/editeng/editeng.cxx )
-[14:12]
-ek
-:
-PhilippL: Also not to draw additional (F) for "File" aqua menu in JA locale.
-[14:13]
-PhilippL
-:
-ek: that's a separate issue, but we can do that easily, too, I think.[14:13]doctype left the chat room.
-[14:13]
-ek
-:
-PhilippL: ok.  sorry for separate issue...
-[14:14]
-PhilippL
-:
-ek: don't be :-) We'll just want another issue filed.
-[14:14]
-ericb2
-:
-hdu_hh: what is not clear is : " where is what in the sources"
-[14:14]
-PhilippL
-:
-As we can see there's already lots in the pipe for aquavcl02 :-)
-[14:14]
-ek
-:
-PhilippL: sure.  I'm too ignorant about internal of OOo :)
-[14:15]
-hdu_hh
-:
-ericb2: can you rephrase the question?
-[14:16]
-ericb2
-:
-hdu_hh: I think we need some documentation. Shorcuts, accelerators, when they are available ..etc. Then we could do a correct choice if what keep, and what remove[14:17
-] ericb2:
-s/choice if/choice/of/
-[14:17]
-paveljanik
-:
-ericb2: the correct choice can be done by reading the AHIG and removing what should be removed.
-[14:17]
-ericb2
-:
-paveljanik: this is not enough
-[14:17]
-paveljanik
-:
-ok.
-[14:17]
-ericb2
-:
-paveljanik: Base, Calc, and several other use all something, in different ways[14:18
-] ericb2:
-paveljanik: the problem is ind the best compromise, and justify on demand[14:18
-] ericb2:
-s/ind/find/
-[14:18]
-ismael_
-:
-for your information, here are listed all the keyboard shortcut of the AHIG: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGKeyboardShortcuts/chapter_20_section_1.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40002725-CHDIGFBH
-[14:18]
-paveljanik
-:
-menu.cxx:[14:19
-] paveljanik:
-static BOOL ImplAccelDisabled()[14:19
-] paveljanik:
-{[14:19
-] paveljanik:
-    // display of accelerator strings may be suppressed via configuration[14:19
-] paveljanik:
-    static int nAccelDisabled = -1;
-[14:19]
-ericb2
-:
-e.g. I use a lot Formulas for equations, and as of today, nothing works
-[14:19]
-paveljanik
-:
-can we disable accelerators by configuration?
-[14:19]
-ericb2
-:
-paveljanik: if I'm not too wrong, mayve some xml file have a list of accelerators, but I'm not too sure[14:19]realityking left the chat room. ("Leaving")
-[14:20]
-PhilippL
-:
-Do we want to disable the accelerators or just their being drawn ?
-[14:20]
-paveljanik
-:
-so: accelerators are e.g. Cmd+Q shown in the menus. We want to keep them. Definitely.
-[14:20]
-ericb2
-:
-PhilippL: if we can have formlas working and acelerators, we'll keep all : some people using Windows or Linux OpenOffice.org will cry if things are different
-[14:21]
-PhilippL
-:
-I thought so.
-[14:21]
-ericb2
-:
-PhilippL: currently  we don't know where things are , and how it works
-[14:21]
-paveljanik
-:
-We mix too many things at once ;-)
-[14:21]
-hdu_hh
-:
-ericb2: applications suggest accelerators using the translated UI-strings[14:21
-] hdu_hh:
-the apps want to use them everywhere, so we should either enable/disable them all => disable them on OS X
-[14:21]
-paveljanik
-:
-hdu_hh: no.[14:21
-] paveljanik:
-Undescored letter F in menu item F is not accelerator.[14:22
-] paveljanik:
-Accelerators (in VCL terminology) seems to be Cmd+Q for Quit shown in the menu.[14:22
-] paveljanik:
-undescored letters are called mnemonics.[14:22
-] paveljanik:
-Thanks cloph.[14:22
-] paveljanik:
-so we want to disable showing mnemonics, right?
-[14:22]
-hdu_hh
-:
-paveljanik: CMD+Q is a shortcut
-[14:23]
-PhilippL
-:
-cloph is right, let's talk about mnemonics. And we don't want to draw them, right ?
-[14:23]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-• shaunmcdonald thinks we need a clear definition of: mnemonic, shortcut and accelerator; so that we all have a common understanding
-[14:23]
-paveljanik
-:
-hdu_hh: not in VCL terminology. Or at least they are called accelerators there ;-)[14:24
-] paveljanik:
-shaunmcdonald: +1 ;-)
-[14:24]
-PhilippL
-:
-The mnemonic is the actual key event + it's visual  representation for either a shortcut or acceleartor. But we digress.[14:24
-] PhilippL:
-I think the task is clear: skip the underlined letters.[14:24
-] PhilippL:
-Plus the (F) in menu entries.
-[14:25]
-ericb2
-:
-PhilippL: where exactly : in all places ?
-[14:25]
-paveljanik
-:
-yes
-[14:25]
-PhilippL
-:
-yes, everywhere.
-[14:25]
-ek
-:
-PhilippL: yes
-[14:25]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-+1 for removing the underlined letters in all places
-[14:25]
-PhilippL
-:
-wouldn't make real sense to do it just in one place.
-[14:26]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-PhilippL: what do you mean by: Plus the (F) in menu entries. ?
-[14:26]
-ericb2
-:
-• ericb2 cannot find the F in menu entries
-[14:26]
-ek
-:
-shaunmcdonald: It is for translted menu like JA locale.
-[14:26]
-PhilippL
-:
-shaunmcdonald: In many languages the actual shortcut for a menu is a latin character[14:26
-] PhilippL:
-shaunmcdonald: that one is append in braces after the menu entry
-[14:26]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-PhilippL: ek: ah ok[14:26]bm_ joined the chat room.
-[14:28]
-PhilippL
-:
-next point ?
-[14:28]
-paveljanik
-:
-BTW - where we show underscores? There are no in native menus. There are underscores in X11 menus (I think we should left them intact there).
-[14:28]
-ericb2
-:
-Can we summarize ?
-[14:29]
-paveljanik
-:
-buttons?
-[14:29]
-ericb2
-:
-PhilippL: what about Formulas ?[14:29
-] ericb2:
-issue 78847
-[14:29]
-IZBot
-:
-porting DEFECT NEW P3 ALT does not work in formulas http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=78847
-[14:29]
-PhilippL
-:
-ericb2: Well, we wanted to map Alt to a different modifier, so that should take care of ut ?
-[14:29]
-paveljanik
-:
-ah yes, e.g. in Preferences, there are many underscores.
-[14:30]
-ericb2
-:
-PhilippL: you think remap ALT should sollve the issue ?
-[14:30]
-PhilippL
-:
-paveljanik: buttons ? As for acceleration they're the same thing, they just label themselves.[14:30
-] PhilippL:
-ericb2: Yes, since we wouldn't report Alt pressed anymore.[14:30
-] PhilippL:
-ericb2: But I'll have a try.
-[14:30]
-hdu_hh
-:
-ericb2: the special handling of ALT in the EditEngine was the problem => now the problem will be gone
-[14:31]
-ericb2
-:
-hdu_hh: can yo please be more precise ? There is a boolean in editeng.cxx , using deprecate MAC define, and I'm not sure to understand
-[14:31]
-ek
-:
-ericb2: we can try to change GetKeyModCode() in salframe.cxx.
-[14:31]
-ericb2
-:
-hdu_hh: sorry to look heavy, but that's not clear for me
-[14:32]
-hdu_hh
-:
-ericb2: the old define is not needed anymore
-[14:33]
-ericb2
-:
-ek: please continue
-[14:33]
-hdu_hh
-:
-ericb2: the problematic behaviour will not be triggered because the keyboard combination that triggered does not happen anymore (because ALT is remapped)
-[14:33]
-ericb2
-:
-ek: maybe you have a good idea :)
-[14:33]
-ek
-:
-ericb2: I mean just don't pass ALT in TSM handling.
-[14:34]
-ericb2
-:
-hdu_hh: you mean, OpenOfice.org will see MOD5 ( e.g. ) instead of ALT ?
-[14:34]
-PhilippL
-:
-ericb2: exactly.
-[14:34]
-hdu_hh
-:
-ericb2: yes, OOo especially EditEngine will only see MODx :-)
-[14:34]
-ericb2
-:
-ek: if it works, would solve a lot of things, but what for all text things e.g. greek chars using ALT + key ?[14:35
-] ericb2:
-hdu_hh: ok, i got it. Now this should already be the case ( it is like that in X11 )[14:35
-] ericb2:
-hdu_hh: using MOD5
-[14:35]
-hdu_hh
-:
-ericb2: the greek chars work too (they just have a strange modifier key)
-[14:36]
-ericb2
-:
-hdu_hh: ok, good. then where is the code to be modified ?
-[14:36]
-PhilippL
-:
-ericb2: in salframe.cxx exchange MOD2 by MOD5
-[14:37]
-ericb2
-:
-PhilippL: just that ?
-[14:37]
-PhilippL
-:
-just that. At least that's what I would try first.
-[14:37]
-ericb2
-:
-PhilippL: I'll try now :)[14:38
-] ericb2:
-PhilippL: in all places ?
-[14:38]
-PhilippL
-:
-• PhilippL looks[14:39
-] PhilippL:
-Try just in HandleKeyEvent and GetKeyModCode[14:39
-] PhilippL:
-This way Alt should still be the same for mouse events.
-[14:39]
-ericb2
-:
-PhilippL: thanks. I'll do[14:39
-] ericb2:
-ok, to summarize the point:  test MOD5 instead of MOD2 in salframe.cxx, and test for formulas issue. Second : we have to remove the underlined letters in all places
-[14:40]
-PhilippL
-:
-next point ?
-[14:40]
-ericb2
-:
-and file an issue assigned to pl or hdu_hh  about removing underlined letters, right ?[14:40
-] ericb2:
-PhilippL: yes, next point
-[14:40]
-PhilippL
-:
-ericb2: write the issue to me.
-[14:40]
-ericb2
-:
-PhilippL: ok
-[14:42]
-paveljanik
-:
-ok, I have to leave now - see you later[14:42]paveljanik left the chat room. ("Leaving")
-[14:43]
-ericb2
-:
-This is issue 78943
-[14:43]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-Next Point: Any other business
-[14:43]
-IZBot
-:
-porting DEFECT NEW P3 remove underlined letters in all place (menus entries ..etc) http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=78943
-[14:44]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-Next Point: Date and time of next meeting
-[14:45]
-PhilippL
-:
-same time next week ?
-[14:45]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-Wednesday 4th of July[14:45
-] shaunmcdonald:
-PhilippL: I'm happy with the same time next week
-[14:45]
-PhilippL
-:
-Is 4th of july bad for somebody from the US ?[14:46]• PhilippL wouldn't want anybody to miss the fireworks :-)
-[14:47]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-PhilippL: it is first thing in the morning for those in the US just now[14:47]• shaunmcdonald doesn't think anyone from the US has participated today
-[14:47]
-PhilippL
-:
-shaunmcdonald: probably.[14:47
-] PhilippL:
-so let's keep the same date ?
-[14:47]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-• shaunmcdonald thinks we have had participation from Japan today
-[14:47]
-hdu_hh
-:
-+1
-[14:48]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-what about the time?
-[14:48]
-PhilippL
-:
-:00 UT is ok for me
-[14:49]
-shaunmcdonald
-:
-Lets go for that then[14:49]You changed the topic to "[English] OpenOffice.org Mac porting team channel. Next IRC Meeting:Wednesday 4th July 2007 (*12*:00 UTC) See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings for the agenda. Previous meetings logs are available at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs | http://www.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua | http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2007".