Log Mac Meeting 18 May 2007
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[22:01] <CerebrosuS> 22 h -Berlin Time-
[22:01] <CerebrosuS> *smile*
[22:01] <paveljanik> ;-)
[22:02] <CerebrosuS> So i will start
[22:02] <CerebrosuS> i
[22:02] <CerebrosuS> i'm cerebrosus
[22:02] <CerebrosuS> can call me christian
[22:02] * Bi-noix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[22:03] <CerebrosuS> i'm a new developer and will try to support your ooo port to mac
[22:03] <CerebrosuS> at time i'm learning about the structure of vcl and how i works
[22:04] <CerebrosuS> so that's all this time, ... from my point
[22:04] <paveljanik> CerebrosuS: thanks and welcome :-)
[22:04] <CerebrosuS> thx
[22:05] <paveljanik> other developers?
[22:05] <paveljanik> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Port_Meetings#Next_Meeting
[22:06] <paveljanik> shaunmcdonald: ping?
[22:06] <CerebrosuS> and we learn from the ccc : just judge someone from the action he does and not from his look religion and nationality
[22:06] <ybart> CerebrosuS: welcome
[22:06] <paveljanik> ericb2: ping?
[22:06] <CerebrosuS> so no comment about that lol
[22:07] <CerebrosuS> thx ybart
[22:08] <ismael_> ChanServ:
[22:08] <ismael_> che
[22:08] <ismael_> CerebrosuS: welcome
[22:08] <CerebrosuS> thx
[22:08] <ismael_> (sorry for the completion problems)
[22:09] <ericb2> good evening
[22:09] <ericb2> sorry, I was doing other things :)
[22:10] <CerebrosuS> np
[22:11] <ericb2> CerebrosuS: have you Carbon / C++ knowledge ?
[22:12] <CerebrosuS> ;) no carbonat this, just learning about that, but qt, gtk, mfc and other interfaces so i hope it will be fast to get the knowledge
[22:12] <CerebrosuS> but c++ and ooo for round 9 years
[22:13] <ericb2> CerebrosuS: sure you will be fast
[22:13] <paveljanik> CerebrosuS: OOo for ~9 years? ;-)
[22:13] <CerebrosuS> java too, ... but i thought it won't be such important
[22:13] <CerebrosuS> oh sry
[22:13] <CerebrosuS> oop
[22:13] <CerebrosuS> lol
[22:13] <paveljanik> ;-)
[22:14] <ericb2> CerebrosuS: you'll be our Java guru ;)
[22:14] <CerebrosuS> o0
[22:14] <CerebrosuS> no one could prog in java?
[22:15] <ericb2> CerebrosuS: several Sunnies are able to prog in Java on the channel I guess ;)
[22:15] <CerebrosuS> ok hehe
[22:16] <CerebrosuS> it the best joice for oop so everyone should learn it ;)
[22:16] <ericb2> Other devs want to present themselves ?
[22:18] <CerebrosuS> no one? not so much
[22:19] <ericb2> Ok, Next point ?
[22:19] <CerebrosuS> last aqua new / work in progress
[22:20] * CerebrosuS is listening
[22:20] * ericb2 updated the changelog : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb#Changelog
[22:21] <ericb2> With all the last progress we did, I declared Alpha 0.9 started
[22:21] <CerebrosuS> ok
[22:21] <ericb2> Current status of Top 10 of issues is : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb/Top10_of_Issues
[22:22] <ericb2> for issue 73688 , I think Herbert fixed it
[22:22] <IZBot> porting DEFECT NEW aquavcl01->use default system font instead of helvetica in aqua http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi? id=73688
[22:22] <mav_eric> looks impressive.
[22:22] <ericb2> he will confirm
[22:22] <CerebrosuS> sure
[22:23] <mav_eric> and we did a lot of progress since announcing top ten
[22:23] <ericb2> paveljanik: no recent Aqua news ?
[22:23] <ericb2> ismael_: ?
[22:24] <ismael_> ericb2: i haven't done a lot of things these last days
[22:24] <ismael_> ericb2: i read documentation about HIViews and HIobject for my GSOC
[22:25] <ismael_> i started coding a bit salnativewidget.cxx
[22:25] <mav_eric> ericb2: what about your latest patch that starts and helps us solves some important refreshing issues
[22:25] <paveljanik> no, IIRC not that I remember ;-)
[22:25] <ericb2> issue 77450
[22:25] <IZBot> porting DEFECT RESOLVED FIXED Add Aqua theme for Toolbars http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=77450
[22:26] <ericb2> now toolbars use Aqua theme
[22:26] <ericb2> issue 77451
[22:26] <IZBot> porting DEFECT NEW Add Aqua theme for Tooltips ( Apple name : " help tags") http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=77451
[22:26] <ericb2> I have tried to add tooltips, but I'm not arrived
[22:27] <ericb2> paveljanik: what about commit http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/patches/salnativewidgets/may_2007/tooltips/ aqua_tooltips_first_try.diff
[22:27] <ericb2> paveljanik: after clean up ( remove delay too )
[22:30] <ericb2> Lastly, I have found something - IMHO - very interesting for the refresh
[22:30] <ericb2> See : http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=mac&msgNo=5361
[22:32] <CerebrosuS> did i understand ist right that the sal classes is the interface between the port and application?
[22:32] <CerebrosuS> -s
[22:32] <CerebrosuS> s/is/are/
[22:32] <CerebrosuS> hmpf
[22:33] <ericb2> did somebody test my code ?
[22:33] <mav_eric> ericb2: yes. I played a bit with the OOo that contained your code and I was able to really use the aqua version for the first time
[22:34] <ericb2> mav_eric: good :)
[22:34] <mav_eric> ericb2: I experienced no crashes while doing some smal editings on my application etc
[22:34] <paveljanik> ericb2: yup, I'll have a look at all patches hopefully during weekend.
[22:34] <mav_eric> ericb2: in general Aqua OOo is much more stable now then it was back when I tested it the last - that was m208 I think
[22:34] <ericb2> paveljanik: thanks :)
[22:34] <ybart> ericb2: However, we have crashes in applications such as Base...
[22:35] <ybart> ericb2: But it's not related to your specific changes IMHO
[22:35] <ericb2> ybart I didn't test Base.
[22:35] <mav_eric> ybart: that's right. But I only worked with Writer and opened a spreadshet and an presentation
[22:35] <ericb2> ybart I know Impress has a problem with Text (not diplayed)
[22:35] <ybart> ericb2: We should have a look there sooner or later...
[22:35] <mav_eric> ybart: I didn't try base
[22:36] <ericb2> ybart refresh, fonts and missing methods/functions first
[22:36] <ybart> ericb2: Of course
[22:36] <paveljanik> BTW - I have added aqua builds to my regular uploads, because many people here in CZ asked me for them.
[22:37] <ericb2> mikesic wanted to propose something for the missing methods
[22:37] <paveljanik> http://ftp.linux.cz/pub/localization/OpenOffice.org/devel/AQUA/SRC680_m211/Build-1/
[22:37] <ericb2> paveljanik: means we start to provide pre-alpha ?
[22:37] <paveljanik> if we want to ;-)
[22:38] <ybart> Yaeah ! Great news...
[22:38] <paveljanik> better not hide where we are...
[22:38] <mav_eric> maybe we should start versioning with 0.0.1 ;-)
[22:38] <ybart> :-P
[22:38] <ericb2> paveljanik: I think we can just provide pre-alpha, without announce them
[22:38] <mav_eric> ericb2: they will get discovered sooner or later
[22:38] <ismael_> ericb2: and announce when we'll have an alpha
[22:39] <mav_eric> what won't be that far into future since we're already at alpha 0.9
[22:39] <ybart> I think it's a good idea to tell the world...
[22:39] * ericb2 provides experimental versions at http://ftp.cusoo.org/MacOSX/INTEL/native_10.4.4/
[22:39] <ericb2> ismael_: exactly
[22:39] <CerebrosuS> guys i'm sry, i have to go, ... i will watch the TODO Task tomorrow, ... so have a nice evening
[22:39] * ericb2 afraid by the bandwidth
[22:39] <CerebrosuS> cu tomorrow
[22:39] <ericb2> CerebrosuS: cu
[22:40] <mav_eric> CerebrosuS: good night
[22:40] <ismael_> mav_eric: yes, but only by concerned people, not by everybody and especially people who don't understant it is a pre-alpha
[22:40] <ybart> CerebrosuS: see you
[22:40] * CerebrosuS is now known as cere_notAv
[22:40] <ybart> ericb2: bandwodth problem => buzz !
[22:40] <mav_eric> ismael_: you're right but I think we can communicate it the right way even to end users
[22:40] <paveljanik> ftp.linux.cz doesn't have bandwidth problems 8)
[22:41] <ismael_> mav_eric: i don't know what is the best
[22:41] <mav_eric> ismael_: being honest? :-)
[22:41] <ericb2> ybart the server hosting my build is strong enough, but Mac users are .. hmm
[22:41] <ybart> IMHO sooner or later doesn't really matters
[22:41] <ismael_> mav_eric: ;-)
[22:42] * ericb2 is proud to see were we are now
[22:42] <ybart> ericb2: I know but should you provide alpha or pre-alpha, the result will the almost the same :-)
[22:42] <ericb2> ybart sure
[22:42] <mav_eric> the only problem I see is the version number
[22:42] <paveljanik> this is the development snapshot, not alpha.
[22:42] <ybart> ericb2: You will have both happy and unhappy users
[22:42] <mav_eric> 2.3.0 sounds like we have an already full working aqua version
[22:42] <ericb2> ybart as usual :)
[22:42] <ericb2> mav_eric: no, fonts issues, refresh issues
[22:43] <ericb2> mav_eric: once fixed, ok
[22:43] <mav_eric> ericb2: I know but the version number implicates that
[22:43] <ybart> ericb2: mav_eric said about version numbering
[22:43] <ybart> mav_eric: You're true, maybe we should use another versioning scheme until beta
[22:43] <ericb2> other news about code
[22:43] <mav_eric> ericb2: in open-source it is kind of common to release an alpha being 0.1 or something and not 2.1
[22:44] <mav_eric> or 2.3
[22:44] <ericb2> mav_eric: I wrote alpha 0.9 is ork in progress in my wiki page ;)
[22:44] <ericb2> work in progress, sorry
[22:44] * shaunmcdonald has just woke up from nap
[22:44] <ybart> May be a good versioning scheme will be to just provide the build date
[22:44] <mav_eric> ericb2: that's O.K. but the dmg has 2.3.0
[22:44] * GlowingApple (n=jayson@pc237522758324.unl.edu) has joined #ooo_macport
[22:46] <paveljanik> mav_eric: the same as other development snapshots produced by me...
[22:47] <mav_eric> paveljanik: hmm. So users know that this is an development snaphost
[22:47] <mav_eric> if that's the case it's o.k. with me
[22:47] <ericb2> mav_eric: I think, until we announce alpha version, this is pre alpha, no ?
[22:47] <mav_eric> ericb2: you're right
[22:47] <ericb2> for me no problem at all
[22:47] <ericb2> again about code
[22:48] <shaunmcdonald> Currently all mac builds are built with the same .app name in the .dmg
[22:48] <ericb2> I started clipping
[22:48] <paveljanik> no, there is no pre alpha.
[22:48] <paveljanik> This is regular development snapshot.
[22:48] <shaunmcdonald> it might be an idea to have openoffice.org 2 aqua.app
[22:48] <ericb2> and I'm testing something very close to clipping implemented in salgdi
[22:48] <paveljanik> there will be regular development snapshots after alpha, after beta and even after release.
[22:49] <shaunmcdonald> to be able to tell the deifference between the aqua and X11 builds
[22:49] <shaunmcdonald> the .dmg will itself will need to be renamed likewise
[22:49] <GlowingApple> hi everyone. For the aqua build, is there an easy way to update the source and build with the newest patches? I'm guessing I shoudl not run a cvs up as the OOo code is using a set milestone
[22:49] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: dum^^mac user s wont ask for X11 ?
[22:50] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: we need an easy way to tell the difference between the X11 apps and the aqua apps
[22:51] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: I introduced one recently ; preferences are not in the same folder
[22:51] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: and we can continue using a new name for the bundle
[22:52] <ybart> shaunmcdonald: I propose to name the X11 ones with X11 in the name, and the aqua one with nothing more (implies it is the regular version)
[22:52] <paveljanik> ybart: +1. so the change should be done *outsied* auqavcl01...
[22:52] <ericb2> paveljanik: in obr5 ?
[22:52] <shaunmcdonald> ybart: we would need to wait until 2.3 we can rename X11
[22:53] <ybart> paveljanik, shaunmcdonald: no problem
[22:53] <ericb2> paveljanik: oliver and me have to create a cws for bundle changes ( remove program )
[22:53] <paveljanik> ericb2: outside auqavcl01. Maybe in obr5.
[22:53] <shaunmcdonald> we would need to wait until after then before releasing aqua builds with no aqua in the name
[22:53] <ybart> paveljanik, shaunmcdonald: no problem
[22:53] <ericb2> paveljanik: oliver and me have to create a cws for bundle changes ( remove program )
[22:53] <paveljanik> ericb2: outside auqavcl01. Maybe in obr5.
[22:53] <shaunmcdonald> we would need to wait until after then before releasing aqua builds with no aqua in the name
[22:54] <shaunmcdonald> the idea is that someone who download one of our alpha aqua builds won't over write their current X11 installation
[22:54] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: this is already the case
[22:54] <shaunmcdonald> that is the reason why I bring up the .app rename
[22:55] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: I guess it will be installed somewhere else, no ?
[22:55] <ybart> shaunmcdonald: We can add -dev in the app name ?
[22:56] <shaunmcdonald> ericb2: I suppose it is currently "OpenOffice.org 2.3.app", whereas the current stable release is "OpenOffice.org 2.2.app"
[22:56] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: indeed
[22:56] <ybart> shaunmcdonald: So, nothing will be overwritten...
[22:56] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: and people installing 2.3.0 know what they are doing
[22:57] <shaunmcdonald> ybart: until ooo 2.3 comes out ;-)
[22:57] <ybart> shaunmcdonald: Of course :-)
[22:57] <shaunmcdonald> so are we going to do the renaming of the X11 version for 2.3?
[22:57] <ybart> ericb2: The one installing the dev version ? Not sure...
[22:57] <ybart> shaunmcdonald: Rename the dmg but not the app IMHO
[22:58] <shaunmcdonald> ybart: from 2.3 if they are using 2.3 X11, then the .app name would be "OpenOffice.org 2-X11.app"
[22:59] <ericb2> another good news, is Yvan alias ybart provided the first printing window : 
[22:59] <shaunmcdonald> if they are installing the aqua version it would be "OpenOffice.org 2.app"
[22:59] <ybart> shaunmcdonald: Ok for me
[22:59] <shaunmcdonald> that would be my proposal
[22:59] <ybart> shaunmcdonald: But with a space instead of -
[23:00] <ybart> (just a detail)
[23:00] * ericb2 vote for shaunmcdonald proposal
[23:00] <ericb2> shaunmcdonald: +1
[23:00] <shaunmcdonald> there needs to be work for the .DS_Store for 2.3 X11 any way
[23:00] * ybart too
[23:01] <shaunmcdonald> so for the Aqua alpha, which will be be release before OpenOffice.org 2.3, we will use the .app name of "OpenOffice.org 2.3.app" ?
[23:01] <mav_eric> ybart: the - is suits better for Unix enviroments and we're currently using it
[23:02] <ybart> mav_eric: .app is not part of common Unix environment
[23:02] <shaunmcdonald> it doesn't really matter whether there is a - or a space that is a minor detail, I don't mind either
[23:02] <ybart> shaunmcdonald: I agree too
[23:02] <mav_eric> ybart: sure but for the testtool app
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