Difference between revisions of "Extensions/website/Minutes/2009-02/2009-02-12-IRCLogs"

Revision as of 15:37, 16 February 2009

(09:37:47) sophi: Hi all!
(09:38:03) b_osi: Hi sophi
(09:58:20) stx12 [n=st@p548E6D16.dip.t-dialin.net] entered the room.
(09:58:35) stx12: moin
(10:01:46) mdamboldt: Hi
(10:02:02) rafaella [n=Rafaella@nat/sun/x-b089e1ef828a9030] entered the room.
(10:02:34) CyHawk [n=darabos_@catv-86-101-217-6.catv.broadband.hu] entered the room.
(10:02:40) CyHawk: good morning!
(10:03:12) mdamboldt: Old action items:
(10:03:16) rafaella: good morning!
(10:03:23) mdamboldt: lgodard: 2008_04_10_2:  What process to translate an extension itself
(10:04:21) mdamboldt: next
(10:04:22) CyHawk left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(10:04:28) mdamboldt: 2008_04_24: Give an overview of how to do this decoupling of translation cycles and release and find out the opinion of other stakeholders, such as release management and the l10n team
(10:04:38) mdamboldt: I had no time to work on this.
(10:04:43) mdamboldt: next
(10:05:01) rafaella: mdamboldt, can you recap a bit on the translation process discussed so far for the extensions?
(10:05:10) mdamboldt: b_osi:  2008-07-31: Propose workflow for localization of dynamic extension specific content (e.g. descriptions)
(10:05:10) mdamboldt: Guess you still have had no ressources, right?
(10:05:25) b_osi: mdamboldt: right.
(10:05:39) mdamboldt: rafaella: Nothing discussed today so far
(10:06:00) rafaella: mdamboldt, and what about in the previous meetings?
(10:06:21) mdamboldt: rafaella: I can't recap it for you right now, may bay someone else?
(10:06:58) rafaella: mdamboldt, I think it is important to coordinate translation and localization efforts with the OOo localization project, right?
(10:07:35) mdamboldt: rafaella: A rethoric question isn't it?
(10:08:54) rafaella: Exactly, so this is why i would like to hear what has been discussed / agreed so far. A 2 minutes recap so that I have an idea of where we are and what still need to be done
(10:09:31) rafaella: ... and of course where the l10n project can support with workflows and tools
(10:09:55) mdamboldt: rafaella: I'm sorry but my head is currently full with other stuff and I can't tell you a single thing about l10n stuff related to the repository right now.
(10:10:04) sophi: mdamboldt: from what I remember you first need to upgrade to a newer version of Drupal?
(10:10:10) CyHawk [n=darabos_@catv-86-101-217-6.catv.broadband.hu] entered the room.
(10:10:26) CyHawk: sorry, i did not realize i got disconnected
(10:11:18) mdamboldt: Does anybody like to add anything reagrding l10n?
(10:11:41) b_osi: sophi: That is for showing the translation of the extension description on teh repository; the topic mdamboldt mentioned is about translating the extension strings in the binary
(10:12:01) CyHawk left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(10:12:23) CyHawk [n=darabos_@catv-86-101-217-6.catv.broadband.hu] entered the room.
(10:12:32) sophi: b_osi: ah, ok
(10:12:33) CyHawk: something's up with my connection...
(10:13:08) CyHawk: so i was wondering if there was a way to communicate with extension developers to recommend the usage of java property files for localization
(10:13:30) CyHawk: well those that read the mailing list hopefully came across my email
(10:13:53) VA [n=volker_a@nat/sun/x-5b5ecddaa34573bb] entered the room.
(10:13:54) rafaella: b_osi, sophi, thanks. Can you add some more detail on the action items mdamboldt mentioned at the beginning?
(10:15:04) CyHawk left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(10:16:24) b_osi: rafaella: one topic, that started with some ideas in tha last meeting was how to get the strings inside an extension translated. If CyHawks connection would work, he would say something about it ;-)
(10:17:31) sophi: rafaella: I'll point you to the thread about CyHawks extension that extract strings to a .ods file
(10:17:33) rafaella: b_osi, I would be interested to know how strings get extracted, in what format
(10:17:56) b_osi: rafaella: the other one is about the description on the extension site for each description. that is owned by me, and i think i would export the descrition to pootle for translation, but have currently no time to do so.
(10:18:07) b_osi: rafaella: yes, i think so.
(10:18:38) b_osi: ahhh sorry wrong answer. cancel it.
(10:18:55) mdamboldt: rafaella: You can also find informations from the discussion about l10n CyHawk and lgodard had in the IRC log from last meeting at: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions/website/Minutes/2009-01/2009-01-29-IRCLogs
(10:19:12) rafaella: b_osi, ok. And what we still miss is clear instructions to provide to the localizers on how to approach
(10:19:31) rafaella: translation of this separate Pootle project
(10:20:14) sophi: rafaella: I tested it but it works with few extensions because of the missing java property file
(10:20:27) b_osi: rafaella: yes, i asked the current translators for feedback, since there are too many strings currently in pootle. we have to rethink - i just got one comment that got me an idea what to change.
(10:21:01) sophi: b_osi: I'll answer you later this morning
(10:21:14) b_osi: sophi: thanks :-)
(10:21:21) rafaella: mdamboldt, b_osi, sophi do we need a separate meeting to go over the translation/localization process?
(10:21:29) lgodard: sophi: yes
(10:21:47) lgodard: we spot the problem of properties file
(10:22:04) lgodard: and we need a framework for all extensiosn
(10:22:13) lgodard: (see my mails 2 1/2 year ago)
(10:22:15) sophi: I think we should discuss both localization of templates site and extensions site, because it's a duplicate work in some way for localizer
(10:22:56) b_osi: mdamboldt: it is two fold. I just concentrate for templates right now. For extension site there I would need some time to get the framework to show the translation done.
(10:23:01) rafaella: sophie: I perfectly agree.
(10:23:34) lgodard: sophi: the problem also with property files is that they can not be red easily from basic, due to encoding problems
(10:23:38) lgodard: sometimes
(10:23:52) rafaella: b_osi, IMHO this is the worng approach. it is important to have the localizers on board from the right beginning ... not to show the framework once it is in place
(10:24:42) b_osi: rafaella: I'm in contact with them :-) fr, it, de, hu provide feedback and test it out :-)
(10:24:49) rafaella: lgodard, the issue with properties is how to display them in the externsions or what... I am not getting the point
(10:25:39) rafaella: b_osi, why it is not been announced in the l10n project?
(10:25:40) sophi: b_osi: but most of the strings for the template site are already translated for the extension site
(10:25:41) lgodard: rafaella: is how to load the ressources
(10:25:48) lgodard: while running the extension
(10:26:11) lgodard: as text files, they depend on encoding and UTF-8 is not red correctly with basic
(10:26:40) lgodard: personnaly, when i need translations, i use a calc document i read at start
(10:26:52) lgodard: it works but not that "beautiful"
(10:27:25) lgodard: we need a common access to ressources (an UNO API, an extension itself) for processiing the property files
(10:27:27) b_osi: rafaella: if I would open it up, i hav ethe fear everybody wants to get his translation done - which is currently a manual process for me. So I took just some major languages/opinions to work with and see how it behaves.
(10:28:55) sophi: b_osi: I think translation in the wiki is not good, it will be a pain for you to retrieve the strings with a lot of languages
(10:29:40) sophi: b_osi: and we need to keep the 2 sites with the same translation for quality and consistency for the users
(10:30:07) b_osi: sophi: yes, it was just the interim solution, but andrea pescetti brought up the right idea - just put the custoom strings in pootle - and not all available.
(10:30:54) sophi: b_osi: yes
(10:31:19) mdamboldt: Any action items to note from this discussion?
(10:33:03) mdamboldt: Anything else you want to mention in releation to the Extension Repository?
(10:33:03) mdamboldt: If not, I like to go to next topic, the Template Repository.
(10:33:59) rafaella: to me it seems that we need a meeting to discuss in detail the translation process...
(10:34:23) mdamboldt: rafaella: Are you going to set this up?
(10:34:57) rafaella: Yes, but I definitively need o_bosi on board and who else?
(10:35:18) rafaella: sorry, b_osi...
(10:36:33) stx12: it depends whether you are going to talk about 1) site localization or 2) binary (oxt) localization. we tend to mix this up...
(10:36:53) stx12: i assume you would like to cover 1?
(10:37:25) rafaella: I think we should talk about both of them.
(10:37:55) stx12: but please in different meetings. it avoids the misunderstandings ;-)
(10:38:18) b_osi: rafaella: so you can get me for 1), but i dont know something about 2)
(10:38:56) rafaella: Ok. can we have the site localization topic next week on the agenda?
(10:39:12) mdamboldt: Is 2) in this discussion related to Extension only or Templates, too?
(10:39:41) rafaella: I think both otherwise is a duplication
(10:39:58) mdamboldt: rafaella: This is a bi-weekly meeting. Do you plan to discuss the l10n topics within this meeting again?
(10:40:00) b_osi: mdamboldt: i think 2) for templates is easy, you just get thetemplates and translate and put them up again in your language.
(10:40:53) sophi: b_osi: yes, imho it only needs guidelines to avoid mistakes, but not a dedicated repository for the strings
(10:41:16) rafaella: we could have an extra meeting next week to focus on this
(10:41:45) mdamboldt: rafaella: Ok, noted AI for you.
(10:42:15) mdamboldt: Can we go to next topic now?
(10:43:01) mdamboldt: For the Template Repository we had a list of ToDo's at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Template_Repository/ToDoList
(10:43:01) mdamboldt: P1 items basically are related to l10n. Any update on these or any other items on the list?
(10:43:43) b_osi: yes :-) template site improvements: Breadcrumb, translation: most pages/strings are translated now, exept....
(10:44:12) b_osi: The listbox for the categorie scontains soem english words, that i have to hide.
(10:44:21) stx12: i'm a friad the current implementation of the breadcrumb is not what people expect...
(10:44:47) stx12: at least not our UX people...
(10:44:54) b_osi: our old Ux part expected it that way :-(
(10:45:50) mdamboldt: I wouldn't have expected to see it the way it currently is...
(10:46:02) stx12: sure? i think we need something that allows the users to see where in the categories / subcategories he or the displayed templates is.
(10:46:06) mdamboldt: If possible I would like ot see this changed again.
(10:46:25) stx12: Business > Other
(10:46:36) stx12: Home > Business > Other
(10:46:55) b_osi: thats what I hate about do something, but it is up to you how you do it... so pecify it and come back to me with teh spec :-)
(10:47:44) stx12: it's iterative ;-)
(10:48:05) b_osi: it's wasted time/work.
(10:48:15) stx12: mdamboldt: would you like to ping andreas to help b_osi?
(10:48:25) mdamboldt: yes
(10:49:37) stx12: b_osi: you're certainly right; i was kidding; but some fine tuning will always remain even with a good and common understanding of the initial idea...
(10:50:56) Andreas_ [n=Andreas@nat/sun/x-e11f9665dcd30f72] entered the room.
(10:50:57) mdamboldt: FYI, just Andreas calls the current implementation / design history. But this is not what he would expect. So Andreas votes "pro" for changing this into a navigation path and not to have a history anymore.
(10:51:13) Andreas_: sorry for being so late
(10:51:23) Andreas_: didn't see the meeting in my calendar
(10:51:39) Andreas_: agreed :-)
(10:51:41) mdamboldt: Andreas_: my fault, sorry
(10:52:01) Andreas_: nop
(10:52:36) mdamboldt: Any other items on the ToDo list where somebody has been working on?
(10:52:57) b_osi: complate clickable buttons on start page.
(10:53:37) b_osi: labels are beside formular fields now, not above
(10:54:02) b_osi: safari browser optimisations - thin line is gone, all aligned to right.
(10:54:20) VA: link is updated: OpenOffice.org => Get OpenOffice.org
(10:54:41) b_osi: title is no link in detailed view
(10:55:48) Andreas_: cool
(10:56:00) b_osi: translation process with pootle is currently waited for feedback, as mentioned earlier.
(10:56:29) b_osi: fine tuning of iterim translation page in wiki.
(10:56:47) b_osi: thats all from my side. i think.
(10:56:57) VA: "most popular" now shows the *current* popular templates (this week/day?)
(10:57:36) b_osi: VA: ah <shhhh> dont tell. it is dayly i think ;-)
(10:57:47) Andreas_: I just recognized that in the German version you still see the English sentence "Template created by Sun Microsystems"
(10:57:58) Andreas_: not in French :-)
(10:58:36) b_osi: that is something from the template. and an ai for the template creator in that language ;-)
(10:58:55) Andreas_: ok
(10:59:27) VA: andreas_: these strings are in the templates, new templates contain "Vorlage erstellt von ..."
(10:59:38) Andreas_: got ot
(10:59:39) Andreas_: it
(11:01:59) mdamboldt: Any other items to raise here?
(11:03:13) Andreas_: nothing from me right now
(11:03:54) mdamboldt: ok, seems that it for today...
(11:05:12) Andreas_: ok then. talk to you in two weeks
(11:05:13) mdamboldt: bye
(11:05:16) Andreas_: bye
(11:05:20) stx12: bye all...
(11:05:22) VA: bye
(11:05:28) rafaella: bye
(11:06:11) sophi: bye all