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(10:01:26) mdamboldt: Hi
(10:01:36) bettina-h: OK, let's begin with the action items
(10:02:05) stx12: is juergen not going to join us?
(10:02:57) bettina-h: Firts AI 1_2007-8-23, mdamboldt: What is the status?
(10:03:15) mdamboldt: Still in progress, wating for test results from osuosl.org.
(10:03:28) bettina-h: ok.
(10:03:46) bettina-h: 2_2007-8-23, bosi, status?
(10:03:54) b_osi: still in prgress
(10:04:10) SunNF [n=nf@sd-socks-197.staroffice.de] est entré dans le salon
(10:04:18) jsc [i=chatzill@nat/sun/x-b8bbdf6b44a5a9a3] est entré dans le salon
(10:04:18) mode (+o jsc ) par ChanServ
(10:04:22) bettina-h: by the way, what is the link to the todo-list know? I could'nt find it.
(10:04:34) bettina-h: Bosi?
(10:04:44) b_osi: wait...
(10:05:25) b_osi: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions/website-todo ?
(10:05:38) bettina-h: ok, thanks.
(10:06:05) jsc: good morning, sorry i was a little bit late. Who is the moderator today? Should i do it again?
(10:06:17) bettina-h: The next AI is the one from Simon, as he is not present, I proceed.
(10:06:44) jsc: mmh, i th8nk we should address it.
(10:06:59) jsc: if Simon is not working in this topic we have to find alternatives
(10:07:07) bettina-h: Next AI is 2_2007-8-30
(10:07:19) stx12: jsc: yes, we will come to your AI soon :-)
(10:07:40) bettina-h: Yes. but let's end the AI list first and then come back to his AI
(10:07:56) bettina-h: As for 2_2007-8-30 tipptipp
(10:08:09) jsc: yes, but then we can drop this AI when nobody knows anything about it and Simon doesn't attend the meeting
(10:09:00) jsc: anyway, go ahead
(10:09:16) bettina-h: the last discussion about was how about the translation. If I remember right, it was the question from lgodard.
(10:10:14) mdamboldt: Done. Drafts from Stella can be found at http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_ExtensionsSite.html#feedback
(10:10:14) mdamboldt: Has anybody of you looked at them?
(10:10:40) ***mdamboldt Don't hit enter when you prepare your AI status.
(10:10:48) lgodard: jsc: i had an AI on this
(10:11:26) lgodard: bettina-h: yes, and you tols it would be discussed at barcelone
(10:12:14) bettina-h: No, I didn't tell it. I was not in Barcelona. JSC was there. JSC, anythin about it?
(10:12:54) lgodard: bettina-h: that is what i unbderstood, though
(10:13:09) lgodard: bettina-h: no problem ansd yes we'll need an update
(10:13:15) jsc: it is related to my AI
(10:13:15) lgodard: of barcelone's discussion
(10:13:35) lgodard: jsc: ok
(10:13:48) jsc: hey  i am lost, can we focus on the AI please and discuss later
(10:13:55) lgodard: jsc: yes
(10:14:08) bettina-h: OK, next
(10:14:25) bettina-h: 3_2007-8-30, JSC your turn:
(10:14:39) jsc: The scheduled extensions meeting last week in Barcelona where i wanted to address the localization and QA question wasn't really successful. Only some Sun guys and some people from Hungary (from the company that is building EuroOffice and do some commercial extensions, i can't remember the name and forgot the business cards) were there. My hope was to find some volunteers who want join the...
(10:14:41) jsc: well, i think it is still an open question.
(10:14:42) jsc: ...project and would help to work on this topic. It is still unclear for me what Simon Lopez is doing and how he proceed.
(10:14:44) jsc: Anyway i suggest that we focus first on the localization of the site and in a second step on localization of the extensions.
(10:15:23) jsc: does anybody know (b_osi) how we can do it with Drupal?
(10:15:40) joli: I see the localization of extensions as not related to the site
(10:16:05) lgodard: joli: i agree
(10:16:08) b_osi: Localisation of the site UI seems possible.
(10:16:22) bettina-h: Good. Next AI is 1_2007-9-06, b_osi?
(10:16:25) jsc: yes, i agree but one part is related to the site -> the description and release note ...
(10:16:26) lgodard: b_osi: slopez had a quick look at drupal capabilities
(10:16:39) joli: jsc: after AI :)
(10:16:45) lgodard: joli: please wait
(10:16:47) jsc: any outcome from this
(10:16:53) b_osi: What was the result
(10:16:53) lgodard: joli: when you say
(10:17:11) lgodard: joli: "I see the localization of extensions as not related to the site"
(10:17:37) lgodard: joli: the extensions themselves ok, but what about the descriptions on the site?
(10:18:09) joli: Description, release notes on the site are sepate
(10:18:18) jsc: lgodard: can we agree that localization of extensions can be split in two parts.
(10:18:20) jsc: one is the site specifc stuff and one is the pure localization of the extension itself (and that is what joli meant)
(10:18:33) joli: right
(10:18:42) lgodard: this has been already discussed and agreed
(10:19:08) lgodard: jsc: right, all what is displayed on the web site has to be translated
(10:19:20) lgodard: or at least translatable
(10:19:34) b_osi: lgodard: so what was the result of slopez analyze?
(10:19:52) lgodard: b_osi: no news from him. and i proposed to dismiss him
(10:20:00) jsc: sure but we have stic content and dynamic content. I want first address the static content because it is much easier
(10:20:02) lgodard: b_osi: i promise to send an email oin lists
(10:20:07) lgodard: to call for help
(10:20:17) lgodard: (sorry did not find time to do it)
(10:20:33) lgodard: jsc: no
(10:20:34) bettina-h: 1_2007-9-06, b_osi, what about the status?
(10:20:54) b_osi: are we finished with localisation topic for now?
(10:20:55) lgodard: jsc: well, as you want
(10:21:05) lgodard: but this is not sufficient at all
(10:21:34) lgodard: i haven't had many feedback from the first line i proposed 
(10:22:00) b_osi: Drop in of my AI: For new submittet extension releases, the updates via Extension Manager are counted.
(10:22:13) b_osi: Done.
(10:22:16) bettina-h: ok, thank you.
(10:22:23) jsc: i think yes, because it is not easy to answer here and today
(10:22:57) bettina-h: AI 1_2007-9-13, stx12, status?
(10:23:30) stx12: the handling of the tags entry has changed; now one can click on it and it lists all tags.
(10:23:48) b_osi: :-)
(10:23:57) stx12: i have to talk to b_osi how we can retireve stats
(10:24:09) stx12: in progress
(10:24:16) mdamboldt: bettina-h: What about 2_2007-9-06?
(10:24:31) jsc: do we want to publish this stats somewhere?
(10:24:32) bettina-h: Next AI is 2_2007-9-13
(10:24:39) mdamboldt: Drafts from Stella can be found at http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_ExtensionsSite.html#feedback
(10:24:39) mdamboldt: Has anybody of you looked at them?
(10:24:39) mdamboldt: My favorit is Draft#01
(10:25:03) stx12: 2_2007-9-06: Talk to STS about the page which is displayed after downloading an extension.
(10:25:14) stx12: http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_ExtensionsSite.html#feedback
(10:25:19) bettina-h: 2_2007-9-06, I thought it was done?
(10:25:58) mdamboldt: bettina-h: And whats the result?
(10:26:12) bettina-h: Is the graphic related to tze extension, as it is the icon of the report builder?
(10:26:15) mdamboldt: Are going to keep the site as is or do we like to have a new style like on of the drafts?
(10:26:38) b_osi: one of the drafts! look realy nice.
(10:26:50) mdamboldt: bettina-h: Those are drafts, the example is for downloading the Report Builder.
(10:27:00) stx12: to be honest I don't like the repetition of the logo and the blue bar in the content area.
(10:27:08) jsc: i personally like the second draft and would suggest to use one of this new drafts
(10:27:46) lgodard: stx12: i like it
(10:28:11) stx12: it looks like a TV in a TV
(10:28:25) mdamboldt: We should keep in mind that this is not only for the download, but also when people are bing re-directed to a follow-up page.
(10:28:39) mdamboldt: So progress bar seems strange to me.
(10:28:43) lgodard: stx12: hum, yes, but an extension is an independant part that go live as an entity
(10:29:08) lgodard: mdamboldt: what do you mean
(10:29:09) stx12: lgodard: ?
(10:29:34) mdamboldt: lgodard: People will see that page after they hit the "Get It" button.
(10:29:40) lgodard: stx12: ok, do not take care of my philosophival remark
(10:30:23) b_osi: the progress bar in #2 isn't realy necessary? since the download starts in 1 to 2 seconds
(10:30:25) bettina-h: I like it also. I just find the wording 'please enjoy' abit annoying. The word 'please' is too much there.
(10:30:26) IZBot: no issue with number 2
(10:30:30) lgodard: mdamboldt: hum. so for what is the progress bar ?
(10:30:37) mdamboldt: lgodard: In case the extension is hosted within the repository, the browser download windows comes up.
(10:30:37) mdamboldt: godard: In case the binary is located on a different site like sourceforge for example, the page will be displayed between "Get It" and Soruceforge
(10:31:05) jsc: mdamboldt: mmh, ok than draft 1 ...
(10:31:07) jsc: i would agree to stx12 that repeating the logo is not necessary
(10:31:10) mdamboldt: lgodard: Regarding Progress Bar, I don't really know. (It's just a draft from Stella...)
(10:31:40) SunNF: don't like the repetition of the logo, too
(10:31:46) mdamboldt: jsc/ stx12: agree
(10:31:50) stx12: i guess the progress bar does not really show progess, right?
(10:32:00) bettina-h: A progressbar is needed to show a process, otherwise the user does not realize waht is happening.
(10:32:06) lgodard: ok, for the repririon, not an issue to me, but as you want
(10:32:23) lgodard: bettina-h: of course, but why in this context ?
(10:32:28) jsc: in case of a redirect the browser shows the progress as well. Do we really need it again?
(10:32:30) bettina-h: How fast is the process happening here?
(10:32:49) jsc: i suggest to keep it simply and vote for #1
(10:32:53) SunNF: it is common behaviour of download pages to show just a text like in draft #1
(10:32:53) IZBot: no issue with number 1
(10:32:55) IZBot: no issue with number 1
(10:33:05) b_osi: bettina-h: 1 second for download and 3 seconds for redirection
(10:33:14) lgodard: IZBot: yes that is what jsc said
(10:33:52) bettina-h: OK, than we can remove it.
(10:34:09) mdamboldt: What was the initial reason again why we want to change the page at all? Wasn't it the design looked boring and small?
(10:34:09) mdamboldt: So I would still go with #01. Probalby removing logo and blue line before!?!??!
(10:34:12) IZBot: no issue with number 01
(10:34:41) SunNF: mdamboldt: yes
(10:34:43) stx12: SunNF: let's do better and allow to access the description of the extension one is downloading - either by teaser image otr link.
(10:35:15) stx12: how about "people downloading this extension also like xxx"
(10:35:26) mdamboldt: stx12: Good, point!!! Currently we display the release notes and thats really great and usefull!!!!
(10:35:40) SunNF: stx12: sure, my comment was in respect to the progess bar.
(10:35:56) jsc: stx12: why they come from the site with the description and now the user simply want to download it
(10:36:31) stx12: jsc: i don't get it. could you rephrase?
(10:37:13) mdamboldt: I would vote for just making the "Thank you" stuff a litle bit bigger like in the drafts, and keep the way of displaying the release notes text below that as it is today.
(10:37:19) jsc: stx12: it was related to allow access to the description
(10:37:20) jsc: i missed your second part which of course is a good idea
(10:38:34) stx12: jsc: after the download i would like to keep people at the site - with information of the extension downloaded like release notes, a link back to the description, "other favorite extensions", just useful content, ...
(10:38:35) lgodard: jsc: stx12: a go back to extension page is good
(10:38:49) jsc: mdamboldt: it's fine for me as well but i like the idea from stx12 if we can find a useful relation between extensions that we want to show there
(10:38:59) stx12: or better in parallel to the download...
(10:39:00) lgodard: for the 'also like ...', i'm not sure it is good
(10:39:11) lgodard: a lot af download will be for testing puprose
(10:39:32) mdamboldt: stx12: +1 for parallel, I goes you mean another browser tab!?
(10:39:35) lgodard: it is not because an extension has been downloaded it is good or valuable 
(10:40:08) SunNF: stx12: what if a follow up page openes up? then we have the follow up page, the download and promotion on the download page?!
(10:40:13) lgodard: mdamboldt: be carefull for portability ...
(10:40:33) jsc: lgodard: see it like amazon does it for books -> some advertising for other nice extensions
(10:40:58) lgodard: jsc: it is not the same concept with books and extensions i think
(10:41:13) jsc: but the idea is the same ;-)
(10:41:22) stx12: SunNF: i wouldn't open an additional; i'm just talking about the content of tzhe page in the given workflow
(10:41:29) lgodard: jsc: the added_value behind is not the same
(10:41:46) jsc: for me it is
(10:41:53) lgodard: jsc: you pay/chosse the books for their, you know that you will read it
(10:42:07) lgodard: jsc: for extensions, you don't know if you will use them
(10:42:11) SunNF: stx12: i know, but doesn't all this additional stuff together confuses people?
(10:43:27) jsc: SunNF.maybe i missed the point but it is shown when the download is already ongoing, right? It is just some advertising for more ...
(10:43:35) stx12: SunNF: ok, may be; then I would go with draft 3 without logo and blue bar; it has the minimal content plus the link back to the extension
(10:44:05) stx12: if the teaser image is a link
(10:44:39) jsc: stx12: only difference is than the colored "here" link, right? Fine for me
(10:44:40) stx12: youtr download of externsion "_extension title_" will ...
(10:45:43) SunNF: stx12: fine for me
(10:46:28) stx12: b_osi: do you have the information at hand during creation of the page to add a link back in the text?
(10:46:39) jsc: .. time is running, can we all agree to this adapted draft #3? If yes please next AI.
(10:46:43) IZBot: no issue with number 3
(10:46:59) ***mdamboldt IZBot likes number 3 :)
(10:47:02) SunNF: please avoid #
(10:47:13) mdamboldt: +1 for 3
(10:47:18) ***stx12 think agrees with izbot; no issue with draft 3
(10:47:24) b_osi: stx12: is possible somehow ;-)
(10:47:34) joli: +1 for 3
(10:47:35) bettina-h: +1 for 3 too. Now let's proceed with the further 5 AI.
(10:47:53) jsc: SunNF: yep, i noticed it as well but it shouldn't be a real problem, right?
(10:48:09) bettina-h: 2_2007-9-13, stx12, b_osi?
(10:48:27) stx12: see: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions/website/Minutes/2007-09#2007-09-27
(10:48:57) ***stx12 started bettina-h's minutes
(10:49:16) bettina-h: :)
(10:49:45) stx12: these values are for all visitors of the OOo site - not onl ythe extension site
(10:50:05) bettina-h: Next is 3_2007-9-13 for MATM. What about that, MATM is not present?
(10:50:48) bettina-h: Postponed. Next is 1_2007-9-20. b_osi?
(10:51:26) b_osi: done, MD found already an issue, but will work later today.
(10:51:37) ***jsc .. would like to be at home working on 24" 16:9 flatscreen having multiple windows site by site ...
(10:51:59) bettina-h: next AI is 2_2007-9-20 for b_osi.
(10:52:28) b_osi: done;
(10:52:40) bettina-h: and 3_2007-9-20
(10:52:52) b_osi: will be started today
(10:53:37) bettina-h: Thanks. Are there any further topics for today?
(10:53:41) joli: I need to discuss release notes. It will be possible to link from update window of the extensions manager to release notes.
(10:53:43) joli: These should be kept on the website, for easy maintainance in one place.
(10:54:27) b_osi: I would expect release notes in the .oxt pakage, like the license texts
(10:54:41) joli: We need a way to upload notes for different languages. Which can then be linked to from the Extension Manager (EM)
(10:54:56) lgodard: joli: agree
(10:55:03) b_osi: and to put the release notes into the update feed for teh ext.manager
(10:55:22) lgodard: b_osi: i would say extract thel from oxt , or ask contributor to put them separtelly in the site
(10:55:44) jsc: what about the permanent link to the extension + some locale and release specific part based on a logical structure so that i can be generated easily
(10:55:45) joli: bosi: too much trafic, there can be many localizations
(10:56:35) joli: only transfer links with an locale and the EM picks the one wich matches the office' locale
(10:57:30) b_osi: joli: but the release notex should be in the description.xml, and not as link in there.
(10:58:11) jsc: b_osi: no i don't think so, it is not of interest there
(10:59:35) jsc: it is only important to get the info in front of a download or update. Nobody need it later in the oxt
(11:00:07) SunNF: I have to leave...
(11:00:15) SunNF a quitté le salon
(11:01:17) b_osi: but you have to put a link into the description.xml, pointing to teh release notes; If they have to be in relation to the release, then they should be provided there, instead of putting up some seperate webpages.
(11:01:39) joli: There are two different cases
(11:02:01) jsc: they should be part of the already existing release page, right?
(11:02:21) joli: extension can have a direct link to an update information file
(11:02:27) jsc: ... time is running, can we come to an end soon for today
(11:02:35) joli: then this file needs to contain all information
(11:02:51) joli: In case of the website the information is generated
(11:03:15) joli: So the links in description.xml are for the first case
(11:04:22) joli: correct myself: They can still be contained and then be put into the update feed by the website
(11:04:58) joli: then the developer must know before where notes are located. That is, they cannot be on the site
(11:05:36) joli: I guess IRC reaches its limits here when discussing technical details
(11:06:18) bettina-h: OK, let's end the discussion here for today. Bye!
(11:06:23) mdamboldt: joli: Take it offline and come back with a proposal in front of next meeting.
(11:06:26) jsc: joli: i agree and would suggest to move this discussion on the mailing list
(11:06:28) jsc: Bye
(11:06:29) stx12: one formal question; the neeting is scheduled for 1 1/2 hour; 10:00 - 11:30 CEST, right?
(11:06:32) mdamboldt: Wait!
(11:06:38) mdamboldt: I've another item
(11:06:58) mdamboldt: The request to be able to put additional documentation to an extension. The concrete request is about putting a PDF documentation file online in addition to an extension.
(11:07:23) mdamboldt: stx12: Thats true.
(11:07:39) stx12: let's keep that in mind next week, please.
(11:08:37) b_osi: mdamboldt: how many items do you want to upload per extension?
(11:08:38) stx12: mdamboldt: i guess th eextension site is no general purpose documentation site.
(11:09:14) jsc: i think most extensions will have some kind of homepage as well and that should be enough
(11:09:26) stx12: i would hesitate to provide a "Docs&Files" section as at the main site.
(11:09:57) mdamboldt: b_osi: To be honest, I don't know. Seems that new ideas are coming up these days.
(11:09:57) mdamboldt: stx12: Yes, but it's directly related to the corresponding extension. Not everybody has a website where he can put additional stuff for his extension.
(11:10:16) stx12: gmx, ooo main site, ... have...
(11:10:36) stx12: even the ooo wiki
(11:10:48) stx12: which i would use either :-)
(11:10:50) ***jsc ...thinking about my vision for the future would be an extension project portal like java.net or sourceforge.net where the extensions source can be found and other docs ...
(11:11:27) mdamboldt: Ok, think I got you.
(11:12:04) stx12: b_osi: is there a way to clean up tags? there are several ugly unused terms?
(11:12:45) b_osi: make a list of ugly ones, then they will vanish.
(11:13:26) stx12: just because i make a list? great! do you want my wishlist for christmas too?
(11:13:53) b_osi: :-)
(11:13:55) ***stx12 thought a bit more of a automatic mechanism to remove unused ones
(11:14:15) lgodard: stx12: only show popular ones, yes
(11:14:48) b_osi: no automatic way currently - just manual deleting through drupal ui.
(11:14:55) khatar [n=marc@xpeerience.u-strasbg.fr] est entré dans le salon
(11:15:05) khatar: hello
(11:15:49) stx12: b_osi: ok, good to know.
(11:17:06) lgodard: b_osi: this automatism should be an option
(11:18:31) mdamboldt: Anything else for today?
(11:18:31) stx12: any other roundtable topics?
(11:19:08) jsc: not from me
(11:19:19) joli: from me neither
(11:19:23) bettina-h: no
(11:19:29) stx12: then have a nice day - see you
(11:19:37) mdamboldt: bye
(11:19:37) joli: adios
(11:19:42) bettina-h: bye
(11:19:44) jsc: bye
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