Community Council Minutes 20080828
(20:04:34) louis_to: the agenda top items....?
(20:05:27) louis_to: given the reduced time and Cor's absence
(20:05:30) Thalion72: almost updates and old business
(20:05:48) louis_to: Old business is?
(20:06:02) louis_to: I can suaggest:
(20:06:02) Thalion72: the usuel .. trademark, elections ...
(20:06:06) louis_to: * trademark:
(20:06:16) louis_to: update: Sophie and I have been working on this
(20:06:24) louis_to: thanks to Sophie.
(20:06:36) louis_to: we are on a nearly final draft
(20:06:43) Thalion72: uhh - would love to see the results on a public list
(20:06:51) louis_to: no, not yet
(20:07:00) Thalion72: why not?
(20:07:01) louis_to: first on trademark, after the draft is done.
(20:07:27) Thalion72: ah .. sorry, indeed on trademark (forgot, that this list is not public)
(20:07:31) louis_to: because a) that was the plan and b) the plan is good because I think we all want to limit noise to those here and directly involved
(20:07:55) louis_to: there are also other issues: like, trademark for OOo is owned by Team OOo e.v. in the US
(20:08:18) louis_to: and Sun is obtaining it elsewhere, in a piece-meal (item by item) basis
(20:08:41) Thalion72: and I still wonder why we have not be informed on this
(20:08:44) louis_to: so, anyway, the draft will be sent by end of week
(20:08:50) Thalion72: ok, thanks
(20:08:54) louis_to: b/c the work has been doine in the last week, complainer.
(20:09:06) louis_to: Thalion72: your suspicion is unfriendly
(20:09:25) Thalion72: louis_to: sorry, Sun is registering the trademark for mor than a week now
(20:09:36) louis_to: it's not bothered to inform me, either.
(20:09:39) Thalion72: and the AI is yours for more than a year now
(20:09:54) Thalion72: you may call this unfriendly, but sometimes facts are unfriendly
(20:09:55) louis_to: oh, it's older than that, I am sure
(20:10:20) sophi: Thalion72: we can't give only a piece of the draft, it needs to be written in a whole and discussed and reworked with the full info
(20:10:23) louis_to: your suspicin, that we (sophie and I) did not inform you or the colleagues here, for secret reasons, is unfriendly
(20:10:49) Thalion72: louis_to: no,this was not my suspicion
(20:10:54) louis_to: ah.
(20:10:56) louis_to: sorry, then
(20:11:07) Thalion72: the quesiotn whywe have not been informat referred to sun (registering TM)
(20:11:15) louis_to: as to Sun's behaviour: I only learned of it thru the actions of others
(20:11:21) mhu: Well, of course we know that Sun is applying for the trademark in other countries (than the US). We just don't know which is the country of the week.
(20:11:31) louis_to: mhu: right.
(20:11:44) louis_to: on trademark, that was raised--that Sun would do this--and we discussed it
(20:12:08) louis_to: and I there discussed with several, oin the list, the process
(20:12:15) louis_to: that was about a year ago
(20:12:30) mhu: right, that is what I remember as well
(20:12:34) Thalion72: and afair we agrred, that Sun should not go on, ntil we have a tm policy
(20:12:50) louis_to: no, I do not recall that.
(20:13:05) Thalion72: ok, seems we have to take better minutes
(20:13:17) louis_to: the issue was how to articulate trademark
(20:13:26) louis_to: I,e, how to defend trademark
(20:13:35) louis_to: and these discussions were held on the list, too.
(20:13:47) stx12: my understanding is that the transfer of the US trademark would be easier if there is a policy is agreed upon
(20:14:10) louis_to: stx12: yes, but the policy has not been finalized. that's what sophie and I are working on
(20:14:46) Thalion72: the minutes are at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council_Minutes#Minutes_8
(20:14:54) mhu: and, Team OOo still holds trademarks on the name and the logo.
(20:15:04) Thalion72: in one country
(20:15:10) mhu: yes
(20:16:23) louis_to: Thalion72: do you wish to discuss this more or shall we contnue? I would like further to send in the draft to trademark list, and we can there, as mentioned in those minutes, continue the discussion on trademark and its defence
(20:16:34) jpmcc: louis_to: could we put the draft up on the wiki where we can comment (or Google docs if the wiki is too public at this stage?)
(20:16:51) Thalion72: louis_to: please send the draft and move on for now
(20:16:54) louis_to: GoogleDocs would be my preference at this point
(20:16:58) louis_to: thanks
(20:17:10) louis_to: draft is not finished but I want to do it tonight or this week
(20:17:24) louis_to: if google docs, will notify the trademark list, which is a lot more than just the CC
(20:17:27) mhu: no, not Google, they already know more than healthy
(20:17:36) louis_to: oh, please, :-)
(20:17:37) sophi: louis_to: I've one or two points to add too, I'll send them to you tomorrow
(20:17:45) louis_to: sophi: thanks
(20:18:16) louis_to: second update on old biz:
(20:18:18) louis_to: CIP
(20:18:25) louis_to: Stefan, do you want to do a summary?
(20:19:03) stx12: feel free to go ahead; you know the status as well...
(20:19:10) louis_to: okay,
(20:19:48) louis_to: over the last couple of weeks (if not longer) we went over the project lead suggestions, compiled, reviewed, discussed, and have finished today the final list of winners
(20:20:13) louis_to: this list will be sent to Sun, and they will do PR. I have to find out what sort of PR and how it will articulate with any PR we do here.
(20:20:41) louis_to: as well, as follow up, we need to consider , as ST suggested, how to bring in more the winning submissions
(20:20:54) sophi: did the winners will be noticed in the meantime?
(20:21:09) louis_to: "meantime" means: in the next day
(20:21:10) louis_to: :-)
(20:21:43) louis_to: so, there is no real delay here... and assuming John and Stefan and Pavel are agreeable, I can send to sun now the winner names and arrange PR articulation/coordination
(20:22:12) paveljanik: yes
(20:22:26) jpmcc: I've already given +1 For the info of others, I think we only just managed to get enough entries to be 'respectable'
(20:22:28) stx12: the synchronization of OOo's with Sun's next steps is a bit tricky...
(20:22:57) louis_to: am arranging a discussion with terri molini of sun now
(20:23:06) louis_to: and just sent in the CIP winners to her.
(20:23:25) jpmcc: I would leave Terri to handle the PR. It's Sun's news really.
(20:23:28) ***Thalion72 likes to repeat sophie's quesition: have the winners been notified?
(20:23:28) louis_to: if there are issues with the math, please let me know as soon as you can, so I can make corrections
(20:23:44) louis_to: Thalion72: no, b/c we only agreed on it an hour ago
(20:23:45) stx12: but yes, go ahead. will winners (and the other participants) be under embargo for a certain timeframe?
(20:24:00) Thalion72: louis_to: ok, will they? (before the PR)
(20:24:03) louis_to: stx12: I'd like to embargo until I know what Sun is doing
(20:24:06) sophi: Thalion72: and the loosers too
(20:24:13) stx12: yes, and yes
(20:24:26) ***stx12 is speaking for lhe loosers
(20:24:30) louis_to: Thalion72: I do not know what Sun is doing here.
(20:24:43) Thalion72: louis_to: why is this sun's issue?
(20:24:52) louis_to: btw: "looser" means someone who likes things "loose", not a "loser"
(20:24:52) sophi: louis_to: but members who participate want to know from us
(20:24:56) Thalion72: it was written in the CIP rules, that winners will be notified
(20:25:22) louis_to: Thalion72: Sun pays the money and is doing the major announcement. We (I would like) can do an announcement
(20:25:28) stx12: yes, and we have to do this; i will notify those than are not awarded.
(20:25:33) louis_to: but as you saw: John would rather Sun do the announcement
(20:25:39) Thalion72: louis_to: it is *still written "Winners will be notified by email on or around 21 July 2008, although the judging period may be extended without notice in the sole discretion of the Sponsor"
(20:25:59) stx12: and winner should be notified directly beforehand by us (Louis?)
(20:26:04) Thalion72: louis_to: winners / loosers are waiting for this notification
(20:26:40) louis_to: Thalion72: I guess you missed the text I wrote.
(20:26:43) louis_to: I'll repeat.
(20:26:44) sophi: yes, I think that for those who have made the effort to participate, we need to communicate more or in a better way with them
(20:26:47) louis_to: we just came to this conclusion
(20:26:56) louis_to: Stefan has been saying, he would notify
(20:27:00) louis_to: he just asked if I would
(20:27:06) louis_to: I have not had time to reply
(20:27:14) louis_to: John said he did not want to do an OOo PR
(20:27:18) louis_to: but would like to have Sun
(20:27:20) louis_to: is that clear?
(20:27:29) stx12: no ;-)
(20:27:30) louis_to: I am happy to notify and to do our own PR
(20:27:47) louis_to: but to ansewer John's point, and ST's, I'd also like to know what Sun is doing
(20:27:49) Thalion72: louis_to: notify winners and do PR are distinct tasks
(20:28:07) stx12: it's not clear who is writing the direct mail to winners (Louis?) and losers (st!)
(20:28:07) jpmcc: I agree it is only polite to inform winners / losers by email first, but ask them not to publicise it until hh:mm dd/mm (the time of the Sun PR)
(20:28:10) louis_to: Thalion72: we have not had time to notify anyone
(20:28:23) louis_to: I am NOT opposed to notifying the winners or losers
(20:28:24) sophi: jpmcc: agreed too
(20:28:30) louis_to: the issue here is who would do it
(20:28:35) louis_to: Stefan just asked if I would
(20:28:35) Thalion72: louis_to: I do notask (anymore) if you have - I ask if you are going to
(20:28:42) Thalion72: ok
(20:28:44) louis_to: dunno:
(20:28:51) louis_to: St had said he would
(20:29:08) louis_to: I have no problem with it
(20:29:25) sophi: so ok, AI for Stefan and thanks Stefan :)
(20:29:54) ***stx12 still thinks there are two AIs...
(20:30:26) Thalion72: AI1: notify winners(and loosers)
(20:30:29) louis_to: AI: to notify winners and losers
(20:30:36) Thalion72: AI2: coordinate with Sun on the PR
(20:30:41) louis_to: A2 yes.
(20:30:52) louis_to: and just asked about A2 : pinged Terri
(20:30:55) sophi: stx12: we (French) do not add plural here :)
(20:31:11) louis_to: A1 I can notify.
(20:31:16) louis_to: and can do so after this meeting
(20:32:13) jpmcc: louis_to: who issues the cheques / checks?
(20:32:37) louis_to: to finsih: will work with stx12 and other programme committee members on this, as we did awards
(20:32:44) louis_to: Sun does, I believe
(20:33:07) louis_to: which is why I was interested in learning what they are doing there
(20:33:53) jpmcc: It might be useful to set expectations in the email to winners about how long they may have to wait to get their hands on the money :-(
(20:34:17) louis_to: jpmcc: yes, but I think they will not have to wait too long
(20:34:34) Thalion72: jpmcc: don't do this. Participants have learned that we do not meet deadlines anyway ;)
(20:34:50) louis_to: We is not Sun accounting here
(20:34:56) louis_to: Sun accounting is famous for delays
(20:35:14) jpmcc: Thallion72: looks at watch and sees it is past 19:30 BST ;-)
(20:35:23) stx12: during a talk with peter junge about OOoCon we came up with the idea to ask the winners whether they are in Beijing (or why not) and would like to enter the stage...
(20:35:29) louis_to: yes, and so time to finish up soon
(20:35:44) jpmcc: stx12: +1
(20:36:00) sophi: stx12: +1 good idea
(20:36:10) Thalion72: stx12: +1
(20:36:16) louis_to: +1
(20:36:24) louis_to: but what happens if they are not in Beijing?
(20:36:39) louis_to: do we pay for their way there?
(20:36:43) stx12: we will try to convince them to change their mind...
(20:37:14) stx12: i would support this...
(20:37:39) jpmcc: Yes, they will be able to afford to travel business class:)
(20:38:15) ***stx12 thought jpmcc is in the box
(20:38:34) louis_to: that can be added to the letter, then
(20:38:42) jpmcc: stx12: that was over an hour ago
(20:38:55) louis_to: is there other old news, besides election?
(20:39:05) louis_to: election: I need help on doing it
(20:39:21) louis_to: stx12: would you be interested in helping out?
(20:39:41) ***louis_to has too much on his agenda and does not want to defer this any longer
(20:39:44) sophi: louis_to: what kind of help, technical or only little pressure?
(20:40:04) Thalion72: louis_to: It's unclear, if we should proceed with elections, before we finished the discussion about changing the charter
(20:40:11) louis_to: sophi: Pressure
(20:40:16) sophi: Thalion72: I agree
(20:40:17) stx12: i will have a closer look at ooocon (and vacation); but besides that...
(20:40:22) louis_to: Thalion72: a fair point
(20:40:31) sophi: louis_to: I can help on pressure ;)
(20:40:42) louis_to: thanks
(20:40:50) louis_to: Thalion72: we can draft a simple model for the election
(20:40:57) louis_to: technically we will need voting.
(20:41:05) louis_to: ie, a voting site
(20:41:39) Thalion72: louis_to: the proposed change is all(most) about who is allowed to elect
(20:41:56) louis_to: yes, indeed
(20:41:58) Thalion72: and a big part is still missing
(20:42:05) louis_to: so, I think we need to discuss that in the next meeting
(20:42:17) Thalion72: hmm .. no :)
(20:42:28) ***stx12 still dreams of a f2f (SCNR)
(20:42:30) Thalion72: we (me) first need to finish the draft
(20:42:59) Thalion72: stx12: I'll ask my boss to write a offer for one day consulting
(20:43:01) louis_to: Thalion72: agreed
(20:43:27) Thalion72: stx12: or we do this on a weekend in Hamburg (I'd love to have a f2f meeting as well)
(20:45:08) sophi: do you know about the shultze method the SPI or Debian is using for voting?
(20:45:33) sophi: sorry it should be schulze method
(20:45:35) louis_to: sophi: detals would be nice; feel free to describe
(20:45:52) Thalion72: sophi: no :( .. but I think, it is out of the scope of this meeting to discuss this
(20:45:53) louis_to: and, along these lines, we can discuss the SPI integration of the code
(20:45:57) sophi: wikipedia would be better than me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulze_method
(20:46:02) Thalion72: pleas - do such discussion on mailinglist
(20:46:25) sophi: Thalion72: yes, it was only a question, not to discuss this here, to long :)
(20:46:26) louis_to: so, absent other pressing issues, which need to be discussed on list or at another time....
(20:46:35) louis_to: do we have other items to discuss right now?
(20:47:00) Thalion72: Common administration and Capital Budget: Louis proposes approvers
(20:47:49) louis_to: Thalion72: my AI is not completed on this: I do not have a list of approvers to propose
(20:48:14) Thalion72: ok, so I hope, we can vote on this in the next meeting
(20:48:27) ***mhu is waiting to head for the dinner table ...
(20:48:34) louis_to: Thalion72: agreed
(20:48:43) louis_to: so, given that we are losing people...
(20:48:56) louis_to: I suggest we adjourn early-ish
(20:49:25) mhu: early? I think we're 19 min late?
(20:49:25) Thalion72: +1
(20:49:31) sophi: ok
(20:49:35) stx12: may i run a quick poll about OOoCon attendance? mhu, mh, st, louis_to will be. jpmcc not; sophi? paveljanik? Thalion72? (20:49:53) Thalion72: stx12: I'm going to be there
(20:50:08) sophi: stx12: I'll be in OOoCon
(20:50:24) jpmcc: One little piece of info - last time I spoke to him, Peter still had some bursaries available for OOoCon, if you know of any 'deserving causes'...
(20:50:27) paveljanik: I won't be there.