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=== IRC Log 2010-07-01  ===
=== IRC Log 2010-07-01  ===

Latest revision as of 20:19, 1 July 2010

Community Council

The Community Council members are your representatives



Ideas related to the community? Tell us!

IRC Log 2010-07-01

  • Supposed start time: 18:30 UTC
  • Location: IRC


  • Christoph Noack (christoph_n)
  • Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
  • Eike Rathke (erAck)
  • Juergen Schmidt (jsc))
  • Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
  • Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_, deputy of Stefan Taxhet)
  • Stefan Taxhet (stx12)


  • Charles-H. Schulz
  • Louis Suárez-Potts
  • Olivier Hallot


(20:39:43) stx12: I joined only for the first few minutes.
(20:40:02) stx12: thanks to martin for jumpin in.
(20:40:23) jsc: ok, shall we wait longer or start?
(20:40:24) stx12: I would like to let you all know that we now officially joined Oracle in Germany.
(20:40:48) christoph_n: You mean: Oooracle
(20:41:01) stx12: As agreed earlier I will change Sun Microsystems
(20:41:13) stx12: and/or Sun/Oracle to Oracle at some occurrences - including the Council Charter.
(20:41:50) stx12: christoph_n: there are too many acronyms with many O's ;-)
(20:42:18) christoph_n: O(racle) my god? I hope this doesn't make it into the log ... :-)
(20:42:18) stx12: For the remainder of the meeting Martin will jump in for me. have fun...
(20:42:39) christoph_n: Thanks Stefan; enjoy your evening!
(20:42:53) stx12: bye all
(20:42:59) jsc: ok, i think we can start and Stephan's can be seen as the first official meeting part.
(20:43:01) mhu: bye stx12
(20:43:14) stx12 hat den Raum verlassen.
(20:43:15) CorNouws: stx12: bye
(20:44:32) jsc: AI 0: do we all agree and accept the minutes from the last meeting and the today's agenda?
(20:44:42) CorNouws: anything heard from Louis and Charles?
(20:44:53) christoph_n: Nope.
(20:45:29) jsc: we are 15 minutes over the start time, i think we can start...
(20:45:30) ***CorNouws they prolly test how hard jsc can chase them ;-)
(20:45:44) CorNouws: jsc: yes pls
(20:46:14) jsc: 2010-03-04#2 is for Louis, i expect no update today ;-) next ...
(20:46:27) jsc: 2010-03-04#3: Martin?
(20:46:38) ***CorNouws ah, great, our coordiantor chairs
(20:46:50) _Nesshof_: as suggest above, would like to tranfer the AI to you
(20:47:24) jsc: mmh, ok we should clean up the agenda, i will take it
(20:47:25) _Nesshof_: helps me to get some more distance and develop some new ideas
(20:47:43) jsc: accepted for 1 beer
(20:47:54) _Nesshof_: jsc: ok, no problem
(20:47:56) ***christoph_n thinks about the size of this beer
(20:48:07) jsc: 2010-03-04#4: oh it's me ...
(20:48:19) jsc: ok a short update or better final note
(20:48:49) jsc: the bounty program was announce and is running. We have already 2 bounties assigned.
(20:49:17) jsc: We will review the program after some time to see how it works and/or what can be improved ...
(20:49:31) jsc: overall it's doe for the moment and i will keep you informed
(20:49:49) _Nesshof_: can we drop this item from the agenda then ?
(20:49:53) christoph_n: Thank you! (By the way...)
(20:49:54) jsc: if nobody complains i would mark this AI as finalized.
(20:50:05) jsc: i think so
(20:50:21) jsc: and i will remove all other done AI'S
(20:50:26) ***_Nesshof_ is glad to see this done
(20:50:31) jsc: any questions on this AI?
(20:50:49) ***mhu is happy to spend money for the bounties :-)
(20:51:12) jsc: 2010-03-04#5: is finalized and will be removed for the next meeting
(20:51:24) jsc: 2010-03-04#6: Cor?
(20:51:39) CorNouws: yes, sorry
(20:51:48) ***jsc is thinking that we should mark this stalled for the moment
(20:51:48) CorNouws: (was at the kitchen)
(20:51:58) CorNouws: is done so on the agenda
(20:52:09) CorNouws: <a href="http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Agenda">http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Agenda</a>
(20:52:24) jsc: ah i see, relaod shows me your changes ;-)
(20:53:01) CorNouws: ok, had done that yesterday evening, I think
(20:53:15) jsc: 2010-04-01#7: Charles, probably also no update next ...
(20:53:36) jsc: 2010-04-01#1: all ... any updates?
(20:53:43) CorNouws: a good one for Budapest?
(20:53:59) christoph_n: Of course!
(20:54:01) CorNouws: no nead for more agenda points, I think.
(20:54:06) jsc: yes, i agree
(20:54:15) CorNouws: bit of cofee and beer (non alcohol pls ;-) ) will do
(20:54:34) christoph_n: Okay, then we'll require a data for that ... we should add this to this discussion.
(20:54:43) christoph_n: data --> date (sorry)
(20:55:01) jsc: that brings up the question if we should plan an official CC meeting there? It's not yet confirmed
(20:55:05) CorNouws: ok, may I suggest that I start collecting items for the agenda at the OoCON?
(20:55:27) christoph_n: You may suggest ;-)
(20:55:51) CorNouws: cc meeting as meeting and one Q&A with public?
(20:56:03) mhu: yes
(20:56:13) CorNouws: though I am not happy with our Q&A 's from the past
(20:56:44) mhu: more with the Q part, or with the A part ?
(20:56:52) jsc: what should be improved to make you happy?
(20:56:56) CorNouws: but dull, low information level, all stuff that could heve been read on the wiki by all...
(20:57:09) CorNouws: will thikn about it, and post my ideas on the list ...?
(20:57:40) mhu: okay for me
(20:57:58) erAck: ok
(20:58:02) jsc: i suggest taht we all think about it. It's our chance to meet with our community in person ...
(20:58:44) CorNouws: jsc: of course, look forward to any idea, but you may use my ideas as starter for your own, discussion (...)
(21:00:26) jsc: ok, so we are plan for an official CC meeting in Budapest and in a special way for a community focused part. However it will look like.
(21:00:57) CorNouws: thnx, I will take the two AI's
(21:01:00) jsc: anything else on this AI or shall we move on?
(21:01:05) christoph_n: (Thanks Cor!)
(21:01:09) jsc: ok
(21:01:34) jsc: 2010-04-29#1: Christoph?
(21:01:38) _Nesshof_: stefan will send out an reminder on July 5th, election will end July 8th
(21:01:50) christoph_n: Thanks! Well, ...
(21:02:08) christoph_n: ... the current status is, that we have two people nominated. Voting is currently in progress, but...
(21:02:24) christoph_n: There has been a comment by the community whether the voting period should be extended due to the holiday season. Any comments?
(21:02:47) christoph_n: The bylaws just say "at least two weeks". I'm fine with two weeks, but what do you think?
(21:03:33) ***_Nesshof_ thinks two weeks are enough, we already extended the period because of this argument
(21:03:33) erAck: do we know of people with voting rights who are on vacation?
(21:03:36) jsc: i am also fine with 2 weeks
(21:03:36) christoph_n: More formally; do you see a need to extend the voting period by one week?
(21:04:01) christoph_n: Ahh, okay. Anybody who raises it's hand _against_ the two weeks period?
(21:04:29) jsc: well i am fine with it but think that we don't need it ;-)
(21:04:40) christoph_n: Okay, then we'll keep it. We have enough upcoming elections :-)
(21:04:42) jsc: anyway i am flexible
(21:04:59) christoph_n: From my point-of-view, we might move on...
(21:05:15) CorNouws: ok for me too
(21:05:27) jsc: 2010-04-29#2: ok again you and Stephan
(21:05:28) christoph_n: 2010-04-29#2 Missing OOo desktop presence
(21:06:05) christoph_n: We started an internal discussion including Cor and Olivier, but there is not much progress, since ...
(21:06:05) CorNouws: interesting and delicate subject
(21:06:19) CorNouws: good chance for us to show what we can achieve, IMO
(21:06:31) _Nesshof_: :-)
(21:06:49) christoph_n: ... I currently experience some things which might lead to RSI. So I am a bit behind in terms of discussion.
(21:06:51) CorNouws: yes, it is difficult, but also can be (turn out) positive, you know
(21:07:05) ***jsc is thinking that would like to know more ...
(21:07:22) CorNouws: looking at what we discussed, I think it is time to find a way to form an i-team?
(21:08:04) CorNouws: jsc: that _he_ would like to know more?
(21:08:06) christoph_n: However, we currently try to figure out how to make up an I-Team and how to work together. From my point-of-view it is important that this is community supported (both in people and in decisions).
(21:08:32) christoph_n: Cor, did I forget anything?
(21:09:01) CorNouws: hmm, let me think
(21:09:11) erAck: should that be some sort of "call for i-team"?
(21:09:41) CorNouws: erAck: yes, but expectations first ...
(21:09:43) christoph_n: Not yet, unfortunately. We currently talk about how we make sure that goals are set up and communicated and so on.
(21:09:54) CorNouws: let me explain pls.
(21:10:59) CorNouws: it is obvious that most remarks we hear, are about lacking colors on the 'application'-icons
(21:11:12) CorNouws: so the challence is,
(21:11:22) CorNouws: to start in a way, with people, a team,
(21:11:37) CorNouws: that is able to look at this question openly, withou
(21:11:56) CorNouws: t a definity must or may not, right from the start.
(21:12:19) CorNouws: something like that, is most important at the moment IMO, and also
(21:12:42) CorNouws: there is some feeling of urgency among users, that is hard to combine with
(21:12:59) CorNouws: any shedule for the next release, anyway, that is how I
(21:13:13) CorNouws: would judge it with my limited knowlegde of that process
(21:13:46) CorNouws: ok, clear how I see the area?
(21:14:38) christoph_n: Thanks for the good explanation! I just want to add that there are also other questions/issues among users that have to be treated in a similar way.
(21:14:50) jsc: i can at least imagine that it is no easy discussion with probably different views and opinions.
(21:14:52) jsc: thanks for sharing your view
(21:15:10) CorNouws: any members here with good knowledge of release processes ;-)  ?
(21:15:19) ***_Nesshof_ hides
(21:15:25) CorNouws: :-D
(21:15:35) ***christoph_n doesn't see _Nesshof
(21:15:51) ***jsc is laughing
(21:16:15) _Nesshof_: so, what is the question ?
(21:16:52) _Nesshof_: what the next reasonable release will be ?
(21:17:04) CorNouws: do you think my vision, is a reasonable prequsitory (how do I write that) to start?
(21:17:24) CorNouws: start in a way, with people, a team,
(21:17:24) CorNouws: (21:11:36) CorNouws: that is able to look at this question openly, withou
(21:17:24) CorNouws: (21:11:56) CorNouws: t a definity must or may not, right from the start.
(21:18:16) _Nesshof_: yes, but ...
(21:18:42) CorNouws: ...
(21:18:50) _Nesshof_: .. we should focus on a solution, no having a deadline on front of our heads
(21:19:10) CorNouws: I can understand that
(21:19:21) CorNouws: and also agree, to some level
(21:19:30) _Nesshof_: but of course deadlines can help
(21:19:40) CorNouws: maybe we will even be able to explain it ..
(21:19:51) CorNouws: yes, reasonable deadlines
(21:20:10) CorNouws: but, good to hear/read.
(21:20:28) CorNouws: I think when we find a way to set up a good process, that we all can trust in, it
(21:20:29) christoph_n: Okay, would it be better to come back to that topic, later on? Later means in our thread?
(21:20:45) CorNouws: also will be possible ot explain to people that we cannot do it overnight
(21:20:58) CorNouws: - even if we would like to
(21:21:03) ***_Nesshof_ assumes that thread is private ?
(21:21:11) CorNouws: yip
(21:21:41) christoph_n: Let's say it is not yet official :-)
(21:21:42) CorNouws: some preparations are delicate, we all know
(21:21:51) _Nesshof_: yes
(21:22:13) ***jsc is thinking that it would better to discuss such general questions in the whole CC
(21:22:16) CorNouws: I can inform you, _Nesshof_. Others that want some extra to read?
(21:22:28) _Nesshof_: ouch :-(
(21:22:35) christoph_n: jsc: Then we might do this on the CC list?
(21:23:05) CorNouws: at the very moment that you are finding ways to build a base on which
(21:23:15) CorNouws: you can work in a trustful maner, it helps
(21:23:16) jsc: not directly public for all but at least keep the CC members informed
(21:23:27) CorNouws: if it is not yet done on a piblic list....
(21:23:42) CorNouws: but the work will be done in public, that is obvious
(21:24:11) CorNouws: jsc: that is what I wanted to say, yes
(21:25:21) jsc: ok, anything else for now?
(21:25:51) jsc: 3. 2. 1. ...
(21:25:57) christoph_n: "Deins" :-)
(21:26:14) christoph_n: Just a joke!
(21:26:19) jsc: 2010-05-20#1: this one is done and i will remove it as well
(21:26:34) christoph_n: Thanks Jürgen! By the way ...
(21:26:42) jsc: seems that we are done for today ...
(21:26:45) christoph_n: ... one of my last tasks was to introduce the CC template in the wiki.
(21:27:00) jsc: but i would like to give you a short update on the internship...
(21:27:03) christoph_n: I added it to all CC related pages, so if you like improvements/changes - just go on.
(21:27:07) jsc: if you are interested ;-)
(21:27:17) christoph_n: Well, aehm ... Yes!!!
(21:27:50) erAck: jsc: yes please.
(21:27:58) jsc: ok, the application period closed yesterday
(21:28:13) jsc: we got 135 applications
(21:28:20) erAck: wow
(21:28:36) jsc: we have already started the final evaluation and selection phase
(21:28:53) jsc: because of the huge number it will take some more days but ...
(21:29:12) jsc: i think we can finish this next week and can start.
(21:29:54) jsc: i expect that we can run all 7 projects, maybe only 6 we will see.
(21:29:56) jsc: mhu: you will have to pay money ;-)
(21:30:23) jsc: one negative aspect arises during the application period.
(21:31:07) ***mhu is happy to spend money for a good purpose :-)
(21:31:09) jsc: one mentor showed that he wasn't very helpful and communicative ...
(21:31:33) jsc: in the end i had to cancel all his projects
(21:31:54) CorNouws: yes, better avoid that next year.
(21:31:58) CorNouws: I already offered to send a mail to people that - alas - can not join.
(21:32:07) christoph_n: That's a pity. But better now than after work started ...
(21:32:21) CorNouws: May I suggest that I/we also write a mail, confirming the current state, to all people that applied as well tomorrow
(21:32:31) jsc: that was not very nice for the applicants and in the end was not really good for our project ...
(21:32:32) mhu: any more details about that mentor that you can share with us?
(21:32:55) CorNouws: starts with E end with ard ?
(21:33:04) mhu: I thought so
(21:33:15) mhu: thanks
(21:33:18) CorNouws: it is written on the internlist as well, so no secret
(21:33:29) CorNouws: internship list
(21:33:49) mhu: but that is again a list that I'm not subscribed too :-(
(21:33:56) mhu: :-)
(21:34:05) jsc: well we canceled 2 further projects where the mentor hadn't enough time. But tat was slightly different.
(21:34:27) jsc: mentors, were 2 diffeerent
(21:34:54) jsc: anyway i think if we will run such a program again we will improve this ...
(21:35:04) jsc: we always learn ...
(21:35:19) jsc: finally ...
(21:35:51) jsc: i was very impressed by the number of applicants and i think we have already or will choose some good candidates...
(21:36:12) CorNouws: yes, really promising and impressive.
(21:36:28) jsc: and we will hopefully get some good results in the end. I am very confident that the mentors we have will do a very good job with their students.
(21:36:41) CorNouws: and I think a big thank to Juergen, Matthias and Svante for their work on this!
(21:36:49) erAck: indeed
(21:36:53) christoph_n: Absolutely!
(21:37:18) _Nesshof_: +1
(21:37:23) mhu: indeed (but that other Mathias is written with a single "t" only)
(21:37:25) jsc: well it was also fun (sometimes) to read all the applications ;-)
(21:38:25) christoph_n: Just a question: Is this internship linked anywhere? I don't find it on the general list list...
(21:38:37) jsc: that's it from me and i am looking forward to report more in some month
(21:38:41) jsc: ups ...
(21:39:14) erAck: christoph_n: probably not linked, <a href="http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/SummarizeList?listName=internship">http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/SummarizeList?listName=internship</a>
(21:39:32) christoph_n: Already found it, thanks! I'll add that to the Internship wiki page, okay?
(21:39:37) jsc: mmh, i think it's in the wiki <a href="http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Internship">http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Internship</a>
(21:40:04) jsc: i think it's there but probably not as link
(21:40:25) erAck: ah, yes, it is
(21:40:35) christoph_n: Ahh! Found it!
(21:40:45) christoph_n: Thanks!
(21:41:00) CorNouws: thanks all for now?
(21:41:00) CorNouws: (If possible, I would love to finish, leaving for a nice evening cycle tour...)
(21:41:30) christoph_n: Okay, I think the "Flammkuchen" is finished, too ;-)
(21:41:37) jsc: ok, the offical part of the meeting is finished now.

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