Community Council Log 20090625

IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-06-25

Attendees

• Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
• Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
• Christian Lohmaier (cloph) - representing André Schnabel
• Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
• Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
• Matthias Huetsch (mhu)

Absent

• Louis Suárez-Potts
• Sophie Gautier
• John McCreesh
• André Schnabel

(20:40:16) CorNouws: About attendees ..
(20:40:28) CorNouws: I'd rather expet Jacqueline than Sophie - but didn't see anything
(20:40:28) CorNouws: Louis mailed this afternoon he *had missed* this meeting cause being in traffic or so
(20:40:28) CorNouws: And John was on holidy ?? ANyway, few days earlier he was preparing to leave. But he didn't sent a notice
(20:41:02) CorNouws: Any idea, someone?
(20:41:19) stx12: not me...
(20:41:42) mhu: no, sorry
(20:42:05) _Nesshof_: no
(20:44:56) CorNouws: So maybe we should start - any objections if I try to chair?
(20:45:23) cloph: nope (no objections)
(20:46:57) mhu: no, just go ahead
(20:47:03) _Nesshof_: yes, please
(20:47:15) CorNouws: ok then
(20:47:17) paveljanik: yes
(20:47:39) CorNouws: today's agenda : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Agenda
(20:47:45) CorNouws: seen by all?
(20:48:18) paveljanik: yes
(20:50:23) CorNouws: #1: List of decisions and AI's of previous meeting for approval
(20:50:43) CorNouws: Approval especially for Decisions, AFAIAC
(20:51:10) CorNouws: and that is not so much ;-) http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Minutes#Decisions_made
(20:51:33) CorNouws: Any remarks with the AI's or log?
(20:51:42) CorNouws: If not ... next item
(20:52:06) mhu: fine for me
(20:52:12) cloph: +1
(20:53:09) stx12: the "appointment for next meeting" is wrong ;-)
(20:53:38) ***stx12 is sorry for the nitpicking...
(20:53:46) stx12: next item please
(20:54:03) CorNouws: Thanks (maybe that's why some miss this evening ;-) )
(20:54:03) CorNouws: BTW Sorry: I've forgotten to ask if there are any remarks or additions with the agenda
(20:54:09) CorNouws: any?
(20:55:01) CorNouws: OK, AI's - what is where this is all about.
(20:55:12) CorNouws: 2.1.1. - no news
(20:55:31) CorNouws: 2.2.1 Trademark.
(20:55:34) CorNouws: Stafan?
(20:55:38) CorNouws: Stefan?
(20:55:55) ***CorNouws (sorry for the many typoooos)
(20:56:35) stx12: I involved sun legal and got the first feedback. the best seems to be to enter direct discussion with a distro.
(20:56:50) stx12: so we contacted debian.
(20:57:47) CorNouws: ... and
(20:58:29) stx12: with no answer yet. i would like to see a talk happen and will follow-up on this.
(20:59:26) CorNouws: a talk? i.e. a meeting, IRC?
(20:59:46) stx12: i guess a phone call
(21:01:10) stx12: for the other bullet points that were raised see the mail to the trademark list.
(21:01:45) CorNouws: Seen that, Thanks. Gives some direction.
(21:01:58) CorNouws: WRT the pnone call / ..: Would it make sence to involve Bernard or others that did a lot on the current concept?
(21:01:58) CorNouws: Or do you expect that it is easy to bring items accross.
(21:03:15) stx12: i think we have the interesting positions at the phone.
(21:03:53) stx12: if we come to a common understanding this should work in general.
(21:05:31) CorNouws: I expect so. We must take care, IMO, that this route of communication is enough respectful to the others, doing a lot in the discussion so far.
(21:07:40) CorNouws: One more item on this subject..
(21:07:56) CorNouws: André suggested to start the discussion in the community any way (discuss@OOo)
(21:08:20) CorNouws: But looking at the planning to contact Debian shortly, that might be just to fast
(21:08:41) stx12: i agree with your view
(21:09:06) CorNouws: OK - are there remarks from any of the others present here?
(21:09:22) paveljanik: no
(21:09:24) ***cloph 's view is covered
(21:10:15) CorNouws: Thanks - next item:
(21:10:15) CorNouws: 2.3.1 Elections:
(21:10:33) CorNouws: André made his apologies on the discuss@cc list this afternoon,forn not having done more.
(21:10:33) CorNouws: I had contact with him earlier this week, and he obviously was not forgotten.
(21:10:33) CorNouws: * so, I woudl suggest AI for next meeting
(21:11:05) CorNouws: ok for all?
(21:11:16) cloph: +1
(21:11:17) mhu: just for the records, I offered to help in some way before my vacation, and still would do so
(21:11:33) mhu: (with elections, that is)
(21:11:51) CorNouws: thanks Matthias. Can you contact André for that?
(21:11:53) mhu: but yes, okay for me
(21:11:55) ***stx12 needs help with vacation
(21:12:02) mhu: :-)
(21:12:25) CorNouws: little help for Stefan: 8-)
(21:12:25) mhu: yes, I contact andre again
(21:12:32) CorNouws: OK then, next
(21:12:39) CorNouws: 2.4.1 Internship budget:
(21:13:15) CorNouws: Should be done on budget list I guess, but let's look to the update (2.4.2) first ... :-\
(21:13:34) CorNouws: 2.4.2 Internship update:
(21:13:34) CorNouws: There is little time for me and others to do the work needed.
(21:13:56) CorNouws: So baiscally it is my idea that we are to late for this years summer period.
(21:14:11) CorNouws: I mailed to marcon for vacation times - little response
(21:14:19) CorNouws: link to some mails:
(21:14:19) CorNouws: http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=contests&msgNo=32
(21:14:19) CorNouws: http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=pr&msgNo=2738
(21:14:19) CorNouws: http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=MarCon&msgNo=473
(21:14:29) CorNouws: So far my update.
(21:14:36) CorNouws: ideas?
(21:15:24) stx12: just go ahead with the pace we can and start a summer of code for the southern hemisphaere
(21:16:23) mhu: ...or for the xmas break ... instead of summer
(21:16:34) cloph: (for the record: /me doesn't have access to those lists)
(21:17:22) CorNouws: cloph: not via the links I did send? Ah, I must be logged in :-)
(21:17:28) ***mhu also has no access, as I just found out ...
(21:17:50) CorNouws: Shall I forward some mails to you, Christian?
(21:18:02) CorNouws: It is not really uregent for this moment, IMO
(21:18:22) cloph: As I'm acting as deputy, and it is not urgent anyway: no need to forward the mails
(21:18:41) CorNouws: ok.
(21:19:07) CorNouws: I like Stefans and Matthias suggestions about the planning - thus we can continue for this year
(21:19:22) CorNouws: Any other remarks / suggestions on this subject?
(21:19:53) cloph: No other suggestion, just confirmation to continue, and not postpone to next summer.
(21:20:01) mhu: maybe, we also should not limit ourselfs to students only (then we also dont need summer breaks only)
(21:22:12) CorNouws: Students in the Netherlands should work on their study .. so that makes full time work for 3 months on OOo code hard ?
(21:22:40) CorNouws: Sorry you wrote *not* limit
(21:22:57) mhu: oh, yes. taking care of students is fine, I just think they may not be our only target
(21:23:31) CorNouws: OK, let's see how it works.
(21:23:48) mhu: yes, lets get a start first :-)
(21:24:29) CorNouws: Good. Anyone else on this subject?
(21:24:44) CorNouws: Then next item ..
(21:24:53) CorNouws: 2.5.1 L10n infrastructure
(21:24:53) CorNouws: Same problem: apologies from André
(21:24:53) CorNouws: (they have been busy on dev@de.OOo with a 'new' discussion about QA, bugs and features and so ;-) )
(21:25:27) cloph: :-) (or :-( - depending from what POV you look at it)
(21:26:01) ***CorNouws maybe some learn ...
(21:26:27) CorNouws: Maybe someone else willing to lend a helping hand on the subject of infrastucture, help André?
(21:26:59) CorNouws: might be superflouus, since he is contacting Florian already - so forget that for the moment ...
(21:27:43) CorNouws: next item then?
(21:27:43) CorNouws: Not toooo fast?
(21:28:24) cloph: The mirrorbrain thing is the way to go and supports partial sets (as would bittorrent) and is a big step forward to allow for more specialized mirrors.
(21:29:05) cloph: .oO(Maybe one should think about dropping localized full-builds altogether and focus on en-US full install + languagepacks for everything else)
(21:29:50) CorNouws: Thanks, cloph - We'll make sure these things get noticed
(21:30:20) CorNouws: (but looking at installation trouble quite some people have already, two steps might not be such a handy idea)
(21:31:11) CorNouws: can we move on to 2.6.1 Project improvement page ?
(21:32:39) CorNouws: There was little response on the mail to project_leads@, send by Louis
(21:32:39) CorNouws: But it did lead to some additions
(21:32:47) CorNouws: So the page grows, and looks already better IMO
(21:33:15) CorNouws: It is really good to see that at so many places, all over the wiki, ideas are written down and worked on.
(21:33:15) CorNouws: Real fun (and good, IMO) to see a collection of that.
(21:33:32) ***CorNouws Now only few more hands ;-)
(21:34:44) cloph: ..as always :-)
(21:36:26) CorNouws: Can we move on?
(21:37:35) CorNouws: ok then
(21:37:35) CorNouws: 2.7.1 OpenOffice.org Certification
(21:37:45) CorNouws: Did mail a draft business plan off list this afternoon. With some discussion done by mail.
(21:37:45) CorNouws: (Off list, because I did not get clear from Alexandro and Evan what they would prefer at this stage)
(21:37:51) CorNouws: Interesting development, AFAIAC.
(21:37:51) CorNouws: Did any one already had some time to look at it?
(21:38:34) stx12: sorry, i haven't had a chance to read it.
(21:38:37) CorNouws: Does it make sense to you if we have a break - about 10 mins or so - to do some reading on this subject ?
(21:40:10) stx12: i would prefer to read it earlier in the day and comment while being awake ;-)
(21:40:47) CorNouws: already asleep ??
(21:41:05) stx12: almost... zzz
(21:41:09) CorNouws: and the others ?
(21:41:09) CorNouws: BTW, my mail was 19:36 CET
(21:41:23) mhu: almost :-) you are awakening us all the time :-)
(21:41:33) _Nesshof_: :-)
(21:42:03) CorNouws: :-)
(21:42:03) CorNouws: To be honest:
(21:42:03) CorNouws: It is our own concern if we need months and months to organize elections ...
(21:42:04) cloph: Glad that thoser IRC-clients make funny sounds when a message arrives ;-) (just kidding, not asleep yet)
(21:42:11) mhu: seriously, I found it only while we already chatted
(21:42:51) ***mhu needs some time to drive from office to home ...
(21:42:56) CorNouws: but is is not good if we frustrate the process of others, more then necessary ..
(21:42:58) ***cloph admits he is not really into the subject
(21:43:52) mhu: can we have some time to read the proposal, and than discuss via email, no need to delay two / four weeks IMHO
(21:44:14) CorNouws: sounds reasonable to me, thanks
(21:44:25) CorNouws: how many day's do we all need?
(21:44:26) mhu: thanks
(21:44:55) CorNouws: need or want :-)
(21:44:56) ***mhu has only ~1000 emails left over from vacation :-)
(21:45:14) ***CorNouws Ctrl-A, DEL
(21:45:15) mhu: I can read it tomorrow
(21:45:24) mhu: :-)
(21:45:40) CorNouws: _Nesshof_: ? paveljanik ? stx12 ?
(21:45:55) CorNouws: cloph: understood - we'll ask André
(21:46:34) stx12: until beginning of next week
(21:46:47) _Nesshof_: I'm almost fine with the proposal
(21:46:58) _Nesshof_: but only have read this one time
(21:47:10) ***_Nesshof_ need to read it a second time
(21:48:16) CorNouws: beginning of next week, so let's try Tuesday
(21:48:16) CorNouws: Ok for you as well, Pavel (or must I ping pong you ;-) )
(21:49:07) CorNouws: (probably out for a moment)
(21:49:28) CorNouws: I park this - come back on it later.
(21:49:56) CorNouws: Items 2.8 and 2.9 - notign done :-(
(21:50:15) CorNouws: 2.10 schedule
(21:50:30) CorNouws: I have a request for change :-)
(21:50:47) CorNouws: shall we hadle that by mail (since quite some are absent now)
(21:51:24) mhu: yes, as we already have that email thread, and not all have answered anyway
(21:52:41) CorNouws: That is true, but when I ask to give remarks wishes if there are any, and there is no reply, I assume it is OK
(21:52:52) CorNouws: or is that far to naive ?
(21:53:24) stx12: yes - naive
(21:53:28) mhu: I am okay with that rule
(21:53:58) mhu: ...maybe not with the outcome in cases where I am affected, but the rule is okay
(21:54:08) CorNouws: rule that I am naive, or that people should behave mature and reply ;-)
(21:54:41) mhu: ...that you can expect it is okay if there is no response
(21:55:27) CorNouws: of course, thanks
(21:55:46) _Nesshof_: mhu: yes, agreed
(21:56:13) ***CorNouws Do we have something like that in our charter or rules ? shouldn't we have?
(21:56:25) stx12: ... and we don't have to vote but all agree without further notice...
(21:56:39) mhu: well, for me that is almost common sense
(21:57:37) mhu: (my reply was to CorNouws not stx12)
(21:58:40) CorNouws: The other side of the medail is, that if we really demand a reply, it is rewarding laizyness less
(21:58:40) stx12: sorry for the irony, my experience days that it only works for a subset of people and subset of questions. i think only explicit confirmation make the appearance more probable.
(21:59:28) mhu: yes, in general that is true, of course
(21:59:30) CorNouws: stx12: same message, other words :-)
(22:00:28) CorNouws: so it comes down to a balance ..
(22:00:28) CorNouws: maybe we can discuss this in a few months, with new cc members, when we know how the role of coordinator works out?
(22:00:30) ***mhu still thinks that with simple daily things "no response" shall always equal "default answer"
(22:01:09) CorNouws: mhu: looks like a solid piece of software ;-)
(22:01:20) mhu: sure :-)
(22:01:50) CorNouws: So that were the AI's - thanks - apart from Pavel and Certification
(22:01:56) CorNouws: See if he comes in later
(22:02:13) CorNouws: Now #3
(22:02:13) CorNouws: Future with oracle, do we have ideas/whishes ..
(22:02:13) CorNouws: Someone posted a slightly provocating mail
(22:02:36) CorNouws: Do we want to discuss this in public :-)
(22:03:16) stx12: the public answer is that the acquisition is not closed yet and sun and oracle act as separate entities.
(22:03:23) _Nesshof_: hmmm, do we have wisches/ideas at this time ?
(22:03:39) CorNouws: two are more than one
(22:03:51) CorNouws: two is Sun and the CC
(22:04:29) CorNouws: so doing good promoting of the project, should benifit of involvement of the CC, I think
(22:04:54) CorNouws: also see Sophie's reply on the mail
(22:05:05) CorNouws: She was the only one, I think
(22:05:11) CorNouws: who replied
(22:05:29) ***_Nesshof_ didn't saw any reply
(22:05:40) stx12: she replied privately?
(22:06:18) CorNouws: Ah, I'll have a look where I did read what - sorry.
(22:06:34) stx12: ;-)
(22:06:34) mhu: I have seen only Cor's public email, no answer at all
(22:06:56) mhu: s/answer/reply/
(22:08:15) mhu: as stx12 already said, the legal status (and requirement) is that Sun and Oracle need to act as independent companies, until the acquisition is closed
(22:08:47) mhu: so, we (Sun employees) are somewhat limited what we can discuss
(22:09:08) ***_Nesshof_ was just thinking that the CC might want to a f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status, but this is independent from Sun/Oracle
(22:09:10) mhu: publicly
(22:09:54) CorNouws: Yes, Sophie's reply was on a mail that I did not send to Sunny's, just because of that limitation in discussions for you
(22:10:08) CorNouws: But I can forward it, so that you can take knowledge of it
(22:10:40) CorNouws: done
(22:15:32) stx12: you mean with the meeting?
(22:15:59) CorNouws: nearly :-)
(22:16:10) CorNouws: Any other items for today??
(22:16:15) mhu: yes, please, almost 2 hours is more time than I usually have
(22:17:48) CorNouws: OK, next meeting isJuly 9th, same place, same time ...
(22:17:54) CorNouws: OK for all?
(22:18:54) mhu: fine for me
(22:19:01) CorNouws: I just see I missed Martins: "was just thinking that the CC might want to a f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status, but this is independent from Sun/Oracle"
(22:19:08) stx12: have a nice evening
(22:19:30) CorNouws: I like that suggestion
(22:19:30) CorNouws: (both from Martin and Stefan)
(22:20:27) cloph: good evening, thanks Cor for leading the meeting
(22:20:30) mhu: yes, sophie's suggestion to give a preso to major stakeholder (like AB) sounds also good, maybe that fits to Martins f2f at ooocon
(22:20:38) CorNouws: So meeting finished fo r now - thanks all - and sleep well
(22:20:56) stx12: bye all...
(22:21:13) mhu: okay, thanks for driving the meeting, Cor
(22:21:24) mhu: bye for now
(22:21:28) CorNouws: mhu: yes, we take that one - thanks
(22:21:44) mhu is weggegaan (quit: "have a nice evening all").
(22:21:49) CorNouws: (I'll keep the log)