Application Rebranding - Project Home Page/Logo Guidelines/20100518
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[14:15] <bedipp> rosanaardila: Do you have an agenda for todays meeting?
[14:15] <rosanaardila> The idea today was to decide the open points after the community feedback
[14:16] <rosanaardila> that would be: 1. symbol usage, 2. white space, 3. black/white logo, 4. minimal size
[14:17] <rosanaardila> I think that the discussion around the symbol is still going on
[14:18] <bedipp> I didn't reply to the single points on the list, but I think 2 and 4 are ok for all
[14:18] <rosanaardila> so maybe we can wait with that one
[14:18] <rosanaardila> ok
[14:18] <rosanaardila> so 2 and 4 are decide, we can write that in the wiki
[14:18] <rosanaardila> point 3 wasn't very much discussed
[14:19] <rosanaardila> I think that Stefan pointed to an important point, the rotation of the logo and the inclusion of sr in the logo
[14:19] <bedipp> Yes
[14:20] <rosanaardila> which in my opinion leads to a difficul issue: exceptions
[14:20] <bedipp> But this discussion isn't over too, I think
[14:20] <rosanaardila> right, that is going on
[14:21] <bedipp> In my opinion we need some exceptions, but they should be very few.
[14:21] <rosanaardila> do you think it is worth to start a new thread to decide how to handle exceptions?
[14:22] <bedipp> Yes, this would be good (always depending on the people joining the discussion)
[14:23] <bedipp> The basis of this discussion is very close to the symbol discussion: How "free" do we want to have our branding
[14:23] <rosanaardila> right, but I think that to make esceptions we need a different "infrastructure" than just guidelines, if they are not all included in the guidelines
[14:24] <rosanaardila> that's a good point bedipp
[14:24] <rosanaardila> I think that there is plenty of space for creativity
[14:24] * paveljanik [~Pavel@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has left IRC
[14:24] <rosanaardila> and taht the logo (and symbol) are the two things that show the unity
[14:24] <bedipp> For the logo I'm quite strict - but the symbol is different in my eyes
[14:24] <rosanaardila> the rest can be different
[14:25] <bedipp> I don't think so: The general impression should be similar
[14:25] <bedipp> same color language, similar headers for official sites and so on
[14:25] <rosanaardila> yes, but if you change too much the symbol it happens what happens now with the gulls, they are gulls and two and somehow similar, but you don't have the impression of a consistent branding
[14:26] <rosanaardila> that's my opinion
[14:27] <bedipp> I would rather go with commendations instead of strict rules for the symbol
[14:28] <bedipp> as we talked about in Hamburg: invite people to join the great visual design of OOo
[14:28] <rosanaardila> yes, but in my opinion to have only two elements that aren't change is not two much, and I beleive that there is plenty of space for joining the branding and being creative
[14:29] <bedipp> The symbol is not so unique that it could be protected in any way, I think
[14:29] <rosanaardila> too much, sorry
[14:29] <rosanaardila> I am not sure if we can protect it, but with branding guidelines we can encourage the right usage
[14:30] <bedipp> It depends on the way we use or ask people to use our guidelines
[14:31] <rosanaardila> well, it is clear that guidelines can't stop people from changing graphic elements
[14:31] <bedipp> If we tell them why it is important to stay consistent in our design, most people will follow our recommendations
[14:31] <rosanaardila> of course
[14:32] <rosanaardila> but guidelines have to be clear
[14:32] <bedipp> But if we would go a step further and license the symbol under LGPL, this would be a sing to the FOSS world, that we want to support both ways.
[14:32] <bedipp> sing -> sign
[14:33] <bedipp> I'm all for a clear guideline for it's usage, but from the outside it looks different.
[14:34] <rosanaardila> well, I personally think that we are not limitating too much freedom, the guidelines are just basic rules to look like a united project
[14:34] <rosanaardila> I don't think so, I think that if you keep the logo and the symbol unchanged, you still can do a lot to your website, but everyone will instantly know that you are part of a huge project
[14:34] <bedipp> The question is if we want to differ between logo usage and symbol usage in the guidelines
[14:35] <rosanaardila> that's right
[14:35] <rosanaardila> I mentioned the exception, because there has been many people asking for exceptions for the logo too
[14:35] <rosanaardila> so I thought it would be good to talk generally about what exceptions mean and how you can handle them
[14:36] <bedipp> As we can't force anybody to use the symbol as it is, we could encourage people to use it following the guidelines even if it's licensed in a way Ubuntu can use it too.
[14:36] <rosanaardila> right!
[14:36] <rosanaardila> sorry if I wasn't clear
[14:37] <rosanaardila> I also think the symbol is not the logo and is an option
[14:37] <bedipp> For exceptions, I don't like more exceptions to the logo than the OOoCon and seasonal logos
[14:37] <rosanaardila> I think that we could also have a some guidelines for the conference logos
[14:38] <rosanaardila> not too much, but so that they look similar
[14:38] <bedipp> Both are logos at their own - and should be included in the trademark
[14:38] <rosanaardila> ok
[14:38] <rosanaardila> what do you think about giving some guidance for the OOoCon logo?
[14:38] <bedipp> OOoCon rules are necessary
[14:39] <bedipp> I don't think they have to follow whitespace rules
[14:39] <rosanaardila> ok, so I take that as a first point for discussion in the list: OOoCon Logo guidelines
[14:39] <rosanaardila> I disagree with you in this point ;)
[14:40] <bedipp> But an overlay with the logo characters should be avoided
[14:40] <bedipp> The city's silhouette can become part of the OOo logo (like the seasonal logos)
[14:41] <rosanaardila> We can discuss that with the list
[14:41] <bedipp> And the sub-line about the conference should have a defined distance to the logo
[14:42] <bedipp> of course - so more people can join
[14:42] <rosanaardila> good, I think it is an important point
[14:43] <rosanaardila> I come from a country without seasons, that's maybe the reason why I don't think that seasons are necessary
[14:43] <bedipp> stx12: Is there any chance that Oracle could license the symbol under LGPL? Otherwise I don't need to work on this topic...
[14:44] *rosanaardila* LGPL fÃŒr den symbol glaube ich wird's nicht geben...
[14:44] <stx12> the license should always be chosen to reflect the usage
[14:44] <rosanaardila> good point
[14:44] <bedipp> rosanaardila: "Seasonal logo" is just a description for logo additions for certain events, not only seasons
[14:45] <rosanaardila> ok, I get your point, is there a list of this events or are those decisions made ad hoc?
[14:46] <bedipp> There is no list by now, but we should have one
[14:46] <bedipp> OOoCon an Anniversary are the two events coming to my mind
[14:46] <bedipp> Perhaps Software Freedom day
[14:46] <rosanaardila> ok, I see
[14:46] <bedipp> or certain large fairs
[14:47] <rosanaardila> I think we need to be very concrete there
[14:47] <rosanaardila> otherwise we need a team deciding ad hoc everything
[14:47] <rosanaardila> which is complicated and can be arbitrary
[14:47] <bedipp> If we have an "official" list we can update it by decision on the branding list
[14:47] <rosanaardila> so I would say that's the second point for discussion: list of seasonal logos
[14:47] <bedipp> or "event logos"
[14:48] <rosanaardila> but that wuld mean that every event can have its own logo
[14:48] <rosanaardila> or many?
[14:48] <rosanaardila> many events with their own logo
[14:49] <bedipp> I don't think that there should be more than a dozen or so in a year
[14:49] <rosanaardila> that's already a lot
[14:49] <rosanaardila> but we can discuss it in the list
[14:49] <bedipp> We used these logos on our website - I'm not quite sure, if they should be used by the events directly
[14:50] <bedipp> yes - let's discuss it there
[14:50] <rosanaardila> but I think if an event has a logo (a tradehow for instance) and we have a logo you can place them together
[14:50] <bedipp> (regarding the whitespace...)
[14:51] <rosanaardila> good, that's a goos point for the discussion
[14:52] <bedipp> Our event logos have only been used on the OOo website - replacing the OOo logo (at the left upper corner) for a short period of time
[14:52] <rosanaardila> I see it
[14:53] <rosanaardila> well, I can think of other possibilities of promoting an event without changing the logo, but let's discuss this in the broader list
[14:53] <rosanaardila> do you have any other points for discussion?
[14:54] <bedipp> We should talk about mono color logo (black) and inverted colors (blue white) on the list
[14:55] <rosanaardila> right
[14:55] <rosanaardila> look the points I have on the list today:
[14:55] <rosanaardila> 1. Symbol usage (stll open) 2. Black and white logo (still open) 3. OooCon (seasonal logos) guidelines 4. List of seasonal logos (exceptions)
[14:55] <bedipp> And logo rotation (still open)
[14:56] <rosanaardila> right, thanks
[14:56] <rosanaardila> 5. Logo rotation
[14:56] <rosanaardila> do we have to talk again about the white space?
[14:56] <bedipp> 6. Finalization of white space and minimum size
[14:56] <rosanaardila> because I think if we respect it the sr. on the Serbian logo shouldn't be allowed
[14:57] <bedipp> My personal opinion: don't allow it
[14:57] <rosanaardila> ok
[14:57] <rosanaardila> we are on the same page
[14:57] <rosanaardila> we could also think about a way of offering native language projects a way to combine their logos/symbols with the OOo official logo
[14:57] <bedipp> +1
[14:57] <rosanaardila> that would be 7.
[14:58] <bedipp> what an agenda :-)
[14:58] <rosanaardila> I know :)
[14:58] <rosanaardila> but I think IRC works well for speeding up discussions
[14:58] <bedipp> 8. official supported font to bi used in combination with logo
[14:58] <bedipp> bi -> be
[14:59] <bedipp> speeding up is very good - decisions should be done on the list (just as summary to agree to by +1)
[15:00] <rosanaardila> yes of course
[15:00] <rosanaardila> as you see on this meetings we just speed up the process of the agenda, but the list decides
[15:01] <rosanaardila> ok, I have the 8 points
[15:01] <bedipp> exactly - this is important for members not able to join this IRC
[15:02] <bedipp> So we did quite a lot during the last 50 minutes :-)
[15:02] <rosanaardila> last time we had recommendations, and we said if someone is against we discuss otherwise we think taht's the way to go, that was the case for the white space and minimun size
[15:02] <rosanaardila> so I guess those points are almost decided
[15:03] <bedipp> We don't need an official +1/-1 voting on every single step - just for general decisions
[15:03] <rosanaardila> yes, it's to know if someone has good arguments for or against a particular guideline
[15:03] <bedipp> The final guidelines will have to be voted
[15:04] <rosanaardila> we could ask the council for help to make the guidelines official
[15:04] <bedipp> (just a formal agreement, as everybody has been involved in their creation)
[15:04] <rosanaardila> you are right
[15:05] <rosanaardila> well, I think we coverd a lot
[15:05] <rosanaardila> I will post the topics to the list and wait for the discussions
[15:05] <bedipp> Thank you :-)
[15:05] <rosanaardila> Thank you too!
[15:06] <bedipp> - back to informal discussion: Do you know if Martin will do an IRC talk on the app branding again?
[15:07] <rosanaardila> I'm not sure
[15:07] <bedipp> If you (or stx12) meet him - would you ask him to inform the list?
[15:07] <bedipp> (Otherwise I'll write a mail...)
[15:08] <bedipp> ... when I'll find the time to ...
[15:08] <rosanaardila> well I think we covered most topics
[15:08] <stx12> bedipp: inform the list about... ?
[15:08] <stx12> a new meeting?
[15:09] <bedipp> yes
[15:09] <bedipp> Martin mentioned weekly meetings, but I don't know exactly
[15:09] <stx12> feel free to ask.
[15:10] <bedipp> .. was just in case you meet him personally;-)
[15:11] <bedipp> I'll have to leave now - get up and try to clean our house a bit...
[15:11] <bedipp> bye - till soon on the list ...
[15:11] <rosanaardila> bye!
[15:11] <rosanaardila> get well
[15:12] <stx12> see you, bedipp
[15:12] * bedipp has quit IRC (Quit: "thanks"#)