Difference between revisions of "Application Rebranding - Project Home Page/Logo Guidelines/20100512"

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Conversation with #ooobranding<br>(13:55:03) mode (+ns ) by lindbohm.freenode.net<br>(13:58:46) ivantm [~ivanm@202-180-124-55.callplus.net.nz] entered the room.<br>(13:59:53) rosana.ardila: Hi Ivan!<br>(13:59:58) Ismael_ [~igrammeni@cable-85.28.78.163.coditel.net] entered the room.<br>(14:00:07) ivantm: good afternoon&nbsp;:)<br>(14:00:47) JensGH [~JensGH@dslb-084-063-130-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] entered the room.<br>(14:01:00) JensGH: hi<br>(14:01:03) rosana.ardila: Hi Jens<br>(14:01:05) ivantm: Hi Rosana, Ismael, Jens!<br>(14:01:07) rosana.ardila: Hi Ismael<br>(14:01:18) rosana.ardila: nice to have you here<br>(14:01:21) Ismael_: Hi everyone<br>(14:01:28) Ismael_: thanks<br>(14:01:55) rosana.ardila: we need to finalize the logo usage guidelines<br>(14:02:07) rosana.ardila: for the trademark policy they are imortant<br>(14:02:29) rosana.ardila: and they are sthe starting point for the branding guidelines<br>(14:03:02) rosana.ardila: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Branding_Initiative/branding_guidelines_draft<br>(14:03:28) rosana.ardila: What are in your opinion the next steps to finalize the logo usage guidelines?<br>(14:03:48) Ismael_: Does these logo usage guidelines only include the logo itself or also the gulls?<br>(14:03:59) rosana.ardila: good point<br>(14:04:05) rosana.ardila: the gulls are part of the logo<br>(14:04:17) rosana.ardila: but I guess that you refer to the new "symbol"<br>(14:04:17) ivantm: what about the gull orb symbol?<br>(14:04:23) Ismael_: yes, the symbol<br>(14:04:26) rosana.ardila: ok<br>(14:04:36) rosana.ardila: so until now we have only talked about the logo<br>(14:04:45) JensGH: as i understand the symbol is optional...<br>(14:04:48) rosana.ardila: but it would also make sense to make the guidlines for the symbol<br>(14:04:57) rosana.ardila: exactly, the symbol is optional<br>(14:05:15) rosana.ardila: but it could help to have similar rules, what do you think?<br>(14:05:33) Ismael_: it could be helpful to add guidelines for the symbol, as it probably will be used as a favicon or a application icon / tray icon<br>(14:05:58) Ismael_: so adding black/white versions of it etc.<br>(14:06:07) ivantm: A glossy version of it is already being used for the OOo 3.2.1 main application icon<br>(14:06:08) rosana.ardila: I think this is a good idea<br>(14:06:21) JensGH: there was mentioned we can change the symbol as we like... so i think it should not get too much guidelines<br>(14:06:54) ivantm: +1 - it could be a basis for some nice NL community logos<br>(14:06:57) rosana.ardila: I think the idea was to use the symbol as you like<br>(14:07:04) rosana.ardila: but not to change the color or strech it<br>(14:07:10) Ismael_: From what I understood, the symbol should change to follow trends<br>(14:07:16) rosana.ardila: yes<br>(14:07:31) rosana.ardila: the example was to have a flat symbol that for example right now looks glossy<br>(14:07:40) rosana.ardila: but form and color are the same<br>(14:08:15) rosana.ardila: I think that if we change the color of the symbol it might loose the consistency<br>(14:08:31) rosana.ardila: but the style can change<br>(14:09:23) Ismael_: Some linux based OS uses tray icons that are all integrated into the OS like Ubuntu. So they opt for Black/white versions. I think that this is reasonable<br>(14:09:27) rosana.ardila: do you think it makes sense to have always the same form and color?<br>(14:09:44) rosana.ardila: yes, black and white versions are of course necessary<br>(14:10:01) Ismael_: I does make sense to always have the same form and color<br>(14:10:11) rosana.ardila: I was thinking that if we have the symbol in all colors it could lead to inconsistency<br>(14:11:14) Ismael_: Look at brands like Coca-Cola, they stick with the same color, and it actually works. Don't use too many colors, it will indeed create inconsistency<br>(14:11:18) rosana.ardila: we can provide the inverse versions<br>(14:11:33) rosana.ardila: what do you think Jens and Ivan?<br>(14:11:47) ivantm: I think blue + grayscale (black/white and maybe different gray values?) would be good - no other colors<br>(14:11:55) JensGH: maybe we can define color not as must, but as strong can?<br>(14:12:21) rosana.ardila: ivan I agree with you<br>(14:12:32) rosana.ardila: Jens, what do you mean exactly?<br>(14:12:33) JensGH: black and inverse are� must..<br>(14:12:58) JensGH: we can say please use our colors, but if there is a special event we should allow other colors...<br>(14:13:19) Ismael_: like conference logo's?<br>(14:13:27) JensGH: but only for the symbol.. yes, for example...<br>(14:13:47) rosana.ardila: but then we would have to be very clear when and how<br>(14:14:17) Ismael_: If it would only be for the symbol and not the logo, I think it is a good compromise<br>(14:14:38) Ismael_: that way you would still give some events some freedom without being to restricted<br>(14:15:22) JensGH: this is a little tricky, i admit.. can we move such a color decisions to marketing council?<br>(14:15:25) rosana.ardila: this would mean, that in the logo usage guidelines (the symbol section) we should be very clear who can do this and when<br>(14:15:37) rosana.ardila: otherwise the symbol might be changed everytime<br>(14:16:06) rosana.ardila: we could try to come up with a solution<br>(14:16:19) rosana.ardila: we still can post this IRC log to the list and hear other voices<br>(14:16:21) Ismael_: Then we should have a "call home" option if they actually want to make any changes to the logo/symbol<br>(14:16:32) rosana.ardila: if we can't find a solution we can go to the council, what do you think?<br>(14:16:56) JensGH: we can write something like: other colors allowed in conjunction with OOo marketing?<br>(14:17:08) rosana.ardila: Ismael, that's a good idea, but at the end of the day who is entitle to make those decisions?<br>(14:17:50) Ismael_: Good question<br>(14:18:01) Ismael_:&nbsp;?<br>(14:18:18) rosana.ardila: the idea of the guidelines is to make as much as possible clear, so that people don't have to ask so much about the logo<br>(14:18:30) rosana.ardila: I read the logo list and that's a lot of work for Florian<br>(14:18:51) rosana.ardila: I'm not saying that it isn't an alternative<br>(14:18:54) JensGH: maybe we should ask him about it...<br>(14:19:14) rosana.ardila: is just that I think guidelines are there to make those processes smoother<br>(14:19:25) rosana.ardila: right, that's a good idea, we can ask him<br>(14:19:26) Ismael_: But since it is only allowed to be changed sporadically, like annually conferences, it could not be so much work&nbsp;?<br>(14:19:57) JensGH: we can define color strict for now, but keep in mind adding this option later...<br>(14:20:13) rosana.ardila: that would be an option<br>(14:20:20) rosana.ardila: the style can anyway be changed<br>(14:20:35) ivantm: the conference might be an easy enough exception to handle... the question is, when/how many exceptions to allow because I can see different NL communities wanting to use logos customized to flags, etc<br>(14:20:43) rosana.ardila: exactly!<br>(14:21:34) Ismael_: honestly, I prefer to have a single, strong identity. So localised versions should also have guidelines. For example:<br>(14:21:44) rosana.ardila: I think it is easier to have just one form and color, the rest of the creative work can be dne by the NL comunities<br>(14:22:18) _Nesshof_ [~martin@nat/sun/x-nypipnjatygrhqir] entered the room.<br>(14:22:28) ivantm: I have prepared an example for you to consider: whether this would be acceptable modification of the symbol<br>(14:22:33) Ismael_: We could use the logo, but a bold line under it, and then they can add text like country in any preferred colour they want, that way they don't touch the logo or symbol itself<br>(14:22:33) ivantm: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/images/7/71/PlanetLogoDraft.svg<br>(14:23:10) JensGH: yes this should be allowed,too<br>(14:23:39) JensGH: but we need some control for official use here...<br>(14:23:46) rosana.ardila: exactly...<br>(14:24:27) rosana.ardila: we could discuss the symbol usage guidelines in the branding list and continue the discussion in the next IRC chat<br>(14:24:34) rosana.ardila: that way we can hear other voices<br>(14:24:43) Ismael_: OK<br>(14:24:50) ivantm: especially from people who would like to modify it<br>(14:24:54) rosana.ardila: exactly<br>(14:25:24) rosana.ardila: if that's ok for all, we can move to the logo usage guidelines<br>(14:25:26) Ismael_: Perhaps what we can already discuss is, when and where the symbol may be applied<br>(14:26:12) JensGH: i think: complete optional - standalone, additonal...<br>(14:26:33) Ismael_: Can it be used as replacement for the logo?<br>(14:26:45) rosana.ardila: good point Ismael...<br>(14:26:49) JensGH: the symbol is like the firefox symbol...<br>(14:27:09) rosana.ardila: I thin in firefoy the symbol is the logo, right?<br>(14:27:16) rosana.ardila: and they don't allow any changes<br>(14:27:38) JensGH: hm they have a firefox stroke and the logo.. they use it standalone or combined<br>(14:28:11) JensGH: yes but the fox is complete.. but i remember they made a silver version once on a shirt<br>(14:28:39) JensGH: i think they handle it strict with special event option<br>(14:28:46) rosana.ardila: ok<br>(14:28:51) rosana.ardila: we can look into it<br>(14:29:27) rosana.ardila: I personally think that if the symbol is going to be used sometimes instead of the logo it shoulb be very clear when it can be modified<br>(14:30:29) Ismael_: I think the symbol will be more used as an icon for applications / desktop<br>(14:30:46) Ismael_: and not so much as a logo replacement<br>(14:31:03) rosana.ardila: maybe we can clarify this with the branding list<br>(14:31:29) Ismael_: Ok, we will leave this one open for now?<br>(14:31:33) rosana.ardila: 1. Action item: clarify symbol usage guidelines<br>(14:31:33) ivantm: +1<br>(14:31:37) rosana.ardila: ok<br>(14:31:46) rosana.ardila: that's an action item<br>(14:32:21) rosana.ardila: Shall we go back to the logo usage guidelines (lug)<br>(14:32:36) rosana.ardila:&nbsp;?<br>(14:32:37) Ismael_: Ok for me<br>(14:32:51) JensGH: ok... what about cmyk/pantone colors?<br>(14:32:53) ivantm: yes please<br>(14:33:09) rosana.ardila: good point Jens<br>(14:33:14) JensGH: still missing<br>(14:33:18) rosana.ardila: that would be an action item for me too<br>(14:33:24) Ismael_: cmyk is easy to convert. The problem is pantone<br>(14:33:44) rosana.ardila: I'll talk to Stella<br>(14:34:23) JensGH: ok<br>(14:34:42) rosana.ardila: ok, already in my list<br>(14:35:36) JensGH: what next? white space rule?<br>(14:35:42) rosana.ardila: right<br>(14:35:47) rosana.ardila: there are two proposals<br>(14:35:50) rosana.ardila: very similar<br>(14:36:21) Ismael_: I go for the second option<br>(14:36:31) Ismael_: The one where the "O" is used as space<br>(14:36:37) rosana.ardila: ok<br>(14:36:42) rosana.ardila: 1 vote&nbsp;:)<br>(14:36:51) JensGH: yes 2nd is it<br>(14:37:02) ivantm: I think the second option would be quicker to figure out in graphics editing programs by a few milliseconds&nbsp;:)<br>(14:37:13) rosana.ardila: ok<br>(14:37:23) rosana.ardila: I like 2 also<br>(14:37:42) Ismael_: That was easy...<br>(14:37:59) rosana.ardila: we choose 2 and ask if anyone disagrees, if not we take it, would that be ok?<br>(14:38:16) Ismael_: Fine with me<br>(14:38:19) ivantm: sure. I hope it won't be a contentious issue<br>(14:38:28) rosana.ardila: it has been there for a while<br>(14:38:35) rosana.ardila: but sure, we will inform the list<br>(14:39:06) Ismael_: The minimum sizes?<br>(14:39:11) rosana.ardila: everyone on the list can choose<br>(14:39:14) rosana.ardila: yes<br>(14:39:31) rosana.ardila: ok minimum size<br>(14:39:42) rosana.ardila: Bernhard send a good proposal<br>(14:39:55) Ismael_:&nbsp;?<br>(14:40:02) rosana.ardila: it might help to see it as the whote space, to be able to chosse<br>(14:40:45) ivantm: Bernhard suggested 80x25<br>(14:40:55) ivantm: (without whitespace)<br>(14:41:13) rosana.ardila: Stella suggested 100 x 31 pixel (35 x 11 mm)<br>(14:41:53) Ismael_: Did anyone tested the readability on screen and on print&nbsp;?<br>(14:42:00) rosana.ardila: would it be of help to see the actual bitmap?<br>(14:42:05) rosana.ardila: very good point Ismael<br>(14:42:40) JensGH: yes you must see it...<br>(14:42:50) Ismael_: I'm going to see if I can 'o quick make a sample on paper and on screen&nbsp;;)<br>(14:42:54) rosana.ardila: ok, that would be another action item<br>(14:43:00) rosana.ardila: that would be great Isamel<br>(14:43:05) rosana.ardila:&nbsp;:)<br>(14:45:38) JensGH: i use the time add add a bw logo now^^<br>(14:46:44) rosana.ardila: Jens, when do you thinkthat we need the black and white logo?<br>(14:47:33) JensGH: yes, if someone need it, we should provide a guideline...<br>(14:47:41) rosana.ardila: I think we could think about the usage, so that we don't have at the end 2 official logos<br>(14:48:20) ivantm: for B/W printing - the old logo has B/W versions so I assumed they might be useful with the new logo too<br>(14:48:29) JensGH: I added it so everyone can check... but every logo i know has a bw version<br>(14:49:19) ivantm: that was quick, thanks Jens!<br>(14:49:22) rosana.ardila: ok, we could anyway add some text saying that it isn't the official logo<br>(14:49:49) rosana.ardila: the blue/black contrast works actually well with bw printers<br>(14:50:09) JensGH: yes... bw logos are used for pencils and such kind of stuff...<br>(14:50:18) rosana.ardila: you're right<br>(14:50:26) rosana.ardila: we could think about that<br>(14:50:36) rosana.ardila: for merchandising<br>(14:51:21) rosana.ardila: I will also add this point for the discussion on the list<br>(14:51:29) ivantm: do we need a special greyscale variant?<br>(14:51:45) rosana.ardila: I'm not sure...<br>(14:51:49) ivantm: or is the black and blue printed on b/w good enough?<br>(14:51:52) JensGH: i would prefer bw over greyscale then<br>(14:52:12) rosana.ardila: we can discuss this in the list, I think both are good points<br>(14:53:01) JensGH: ok<br>(14:53:09) Ismael_: +1 grayscale<br>(14:54:00) rosana.ardila: I add this to the discussion items<br>(14:55:02) Ismael_: Ok, for the size: 85px wide on paper does not read very well, the blue color at least<br>(14:56:07) ivantm: what about on screen? print is quite a different case because of dpi values...<br>(14:56:24) ivantm: so the minimum size should be on screen only...<br>(14:56:55) rosana.ardila: ivan I think you're right about the screen being more important, beu I think that it would also be good to take print into account<br>(14:57:25) Ismael_: If you have PDF manuals, that are used on screen, and printed as well, than we have a problem<br>(14:57:57) ivantm: we could have another min. size for print.. but a 85px PNG image vs a vector image scaled to 85px will print quite differently<br>(14:58:14) Ismael_: true<br>(14:58:23) rosana.ardila: but then we would have 2 different minimun size<br>(14:58:24) Ismael_: on screen it's ok 85px<br>(14:58:32) rosana.ardila: wouldn't it be easier to just have 1<br>(14:58:39) rosana.ardila: is 100 px too big?<br>(14:59:10) JensGH: 85px on screen is readable, just a second i add it on wiki, too - both<br>(14:59:29) rosana.ardila: thanks Jens!<br>(15:01:39) ivantm: ideally we should have just one size, but my point is that depending on the graphic format used, it may come out differently.<br>(15:01:45) rosana.ardila: ok<br>(15:01:51) rosana.ardila: I understand<br>(15:02:29) rosana.ardila: do you know how 100px looks like on print=<br>(15:02:30) rosana.ardila:&nbsp;?<br>(15:02:49) Ismael_: 3,5 cm<br>(15:03:14) JensGH: ok i make some very quick images.. they are now added on wiki<br>(15:03:15) Ismael_: depending on the dpi<br>(15:03:27) JensGH: 100 / 85<br>(15:03:30) Ismael_: jens, could you give me the direct link<br>(15:03:40) rosana.ardila: thanks Jens<br>(15:03:43) JensGH: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Branding_Initiative/branding_guidelines_draft#Minimum_Sizes<br>(15:03:49) rosana.ardila: well, I personally think the 100 px is better<br>(15:03:49) Ismael_: thanks<br>(15:03:53) ivantm: plus Writer uses cm/inches not pixels for specifying picture dimensions (at least by default)<br>(15:04:16) JensGH: 85 got some problem wit the small gull<br>(15:04:27) rosana.ardila: I would go with 100px<br>(15:04:45) JensGH: me too, 100px<br>(15:05:05) ivantm: 100px is a nice round number and if it's considerably more legible, then +1 from me<br>(15:05:40) rosana.ardila: ok, same as with white space, we give the list the option of expressing their thoughts<br>(15:06:00) Ismael_: +1 100px<br>(15:06:06) louis_to [~louis_to@nat/sun/x-xulpvhelsssnswwo] entered the room.<br>(15:06:20) Ismael_: also the .org looks better in print with 100px<br>(15:06:26) louis_to: hi all, sorry for being late, other meeting<br>(15:06:26) rosana.ardila: ok<br>(15:06:32) rosana.ardila: hi louis<br>(15:06:37) JensGH: hi<br>(15:06:40) Ismael_: hello<br>(15:06:46) ivantm: Hi Louis<br>(15:06:55) louis_to: hi... but I return to lurking....<br>(15:07:33) rosana.ardila: I think we were about to finish<br>(15:07:40) rosana.ardila: do you have any other points?<br>(15:07:41) louis_to: right&nbsp;;-)<br>(15:08:33) rosana.ardila: I have collected the action items:<br>(15:08:46) rosana.ardila: 1. clarify symbol usage and exceptions<br>(15:09:06) rosana.ardila: 2. find pantone color<br>(15:09:47) rosana.ardila: 3. white space proposal 2 chosen, ask the list for opinions/concerns<br>(15:10:40) rosana.ardila: 4. Choose between a) bw logo, b) blue/black logo on bw printer, c) greyscale for blu/black logo<br>(15:11:00) rosana.ardila: 5. If bw logo, when can it be used<br>(15:11:19) rosana.ardila: 6. minimum size 100 px, ask the list for opinions/concerns<br>(15:11:31) rosana.ardila: have I everything?<br>(15:11:38) Ismael_: i think so<br>(15:11:48) Ismael_: i would like to add this:<br>(15:11:53) Ismael_: I bumpted on the this website the other day, and you can see a lot of "how not use the logo". Some things we do not have we should consider. https://account.alltel.com/content/corporate/media/identity_guidelines.html<br>(15:12:21) JensGH: yes - I added a final color 100px logo for minimal size... so everyone can check it<br>(15:12:41) rosana.ardila: thank you Jens<br>(15:13:24) rosana.ardila: Ismael if you would like to add some more sections to the "Don'ts" you can do it<br>(15:13:36) rosana.ardila: that helps to be more clear<br>(15:13:41) Ismael_: Ok, i will add some<br>(15:14:09) rosana.ardila: cool<br>(15:14:30) rosana.ardila: I think we have done our homework for today<br>(15:14:31) ivantm: We could add a point about using OpenOffice.org rather than Open Office or OpenOffice in text like on the alltel site<br>(15:14:41) rosana.ardila: good point Ivan!<br>(15:14:59) rosana.ardila: you can add all of that to the wiki<br>(15:15:05) ivantm: will do<br>(15:15:09) rosana.ardila:&nbsp;:)<br>(15:15:11) rosana.ardila: great<br>(15:15:16) Ismael_: something that i just came up with. the TM (trademark) symbol<br>(15:15:23) Ismael_: do we need to use it always?<br>(15:15:42) rosana.ardila: I will clarify with Stefan how the TM is to be used<br>(15:16:07) rosana.ardila: action item # 7<br>(15:16:19) Ismael_: I do know that in the USA it is necessary, but in europe it has no meaning unless it is actually registered.<br>(15:16:30) rosana.ardila: ok, I'll ask him<br>(15:16:59) rosana.ardila: I will write to the branding list our action items<br>(15:17:08) rosana.ardila: next Thursday we have the next IRC meeting<br>(15:17:17) Ismael_: Ok, thanks Rosana<br>(15:17:21) rosana.ardila: Ivan, I'm glad we could have you on board<br>(15:17:36) rosana.ardila: I know it's hard to find a good time<br>(15:17:57) rosana.ardila: Jens and Ismael as well thanks for coming<br>(15:18:00) rosana.ardila:&nbsp;:)<br>(15:18:03) Ismael_:&nbsp;;)<br>(15:18:40) ivantm: no problem, it's been a pleasure<br>(15:18:54) rosana.ardila: great, Bernhard will join the chat on Tuesday<br>(15:19:12) rosana.ardila: let's keep on working on the list<br>(15:19:28) rosana.ardila: it was also a pleasure<br>(15:20:11) ivantm: see you all on the mailing list&nbsp;:) - good afternoon (and for me, goodnight&nbsp;:))<br>(15:20:40) Ismael_: good day/night everyone<br>(15:20:43) ivantm left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).<br>(15:20:44) rosana.ardila: see you!<br>(15:20:45) JensGH: ^^ goodnight and bye everyone.. till next time...<br>(15:20:51) rosana.ardila: bye!<br>(15:20:54) Ismael_ left the room.<br>(15:21:00) JensGH left the room (quit: Quit: JensGH).<br>

Conversation with #ooobranding<br>(13:55:03) mode (+ns ) by lindbohm.freenode.net<br>(13:58:46) ivantm [~ivanm@202-180-124-55.callplus.net.nz] entered the room.<br>(13:59:53) rosana.ardila: Hi Ivan!<br>(13:59:58) Ismael_ [~igrammeni@cable-85.28.78.163.coditel.net] entered the room.<br>(14:00:07) ivantm: good afternoon&nbsp;:)<br>(14:00:47) JensGH [~JensGH@dslb-084-063-130-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] entered the room.<br>(14:01:00) JensGH: hi<br>(14:01:03) rosana.ardila: Hi Jens<br>(14:01:05) ivantm: Hi Rosana, Ismael, Jens!<br>(14:01:07) rosana.ardila: Hi Ismael<br>(14:01:18) rosana.ardila: nice to have you here<br>(14:01:21) Ismael_: Hi everyone<br>(14:01:28) Ismael_: thanks<br>(14:01:55) rosana.ardila: we need to finalize the logo usage guidelines<br>(14:02:07) rosana.ardila: for the trademark policy they are imortant<br>(14:02:29) rosana.ardila: and they are sthe starting point for the branding guidelines<br>(14:03:02) rosana.ardila: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Branding_Initiative/branding_guidelines_draft<br>(14:03:28) rosana.ardila: What are in your opinion the next steps to finalize the logo usage guidelines?<br>(14:03:48) Ismael_: Does these logo usage guidelines only include the logo itself or also the gulls?<br>(14:03:59) rosana.ardila: good point<br>(14:04:05) rosana.ardila: the gulls are part of the logo<br>(14:04:17) rosana.ardila: but I guess that you refer to the new "symbol"<br>(14:04:17) ivantm: what about the gull orb symbol?<br>(14:04:23) Ismael_: yes, the symbol<br>(14:04:26) rosana.ardila: ok<br>(14:04:36) rosana.ardila: so until now we have only talked about the logo<br>(14:04:45) JensGH: as i understand the symbol is optional...<br>(14:04:48) rosana.ardila: but it would also make sense to make the guidlines for the symbol<br>(14:04:57) rosana.ardila: exactly, the symbol is optional<br>(14:05:15) rosana.ardila: but it could help to have similar rules, what do you think?<br>(14:05:33) Ismael_: it could be helpful to add guidelines for the symbol, as it probably will be used as a favicon or a application icon / tray icon<br>(14:05:58) Ismael_: so adding black/white versions of it etc.<br>(14:06:07) ivantm: A glossy version of it is already being used for the OOo 3.2.1 main application icon<br>(14:06:08) rosana.ardila: I think this is a good idea<br>(14:06:21) JensGH: there was mentioned we can change the symbol as we like... so i think it should not get too much guidelines<br>(14:06:54) ivantm: +1 - it could be a basis for some nice NL community logos<br>(14:06:57) rosana.ardila: I think the idea was to use the symbol as you like<br>(14:07:04) rosana.ardila: but not to change the color or strech it<br>(14:07:10) Ismael_: From what I understood, the symbol should change to follow trends<br>(14:07:16) rosana.ardila: yes<br>(14:07:31) rosana.ardila: the example was to have a flat symbol that for example right now looks glossy<br>(14:07:40) rosana.ardila: but form and color are the same<br>(14:08:15) rosana.ardila: I think that if we change the color of the symbol it might loose the consistency<br>(14:08:31) rosana.ardila: but the style can change<br>(14:09:23) Ismael_: Some linux based OS uses tray icons that are all integrated into the OS like Ubuntu. So they opt for Black/white versions. I think that this is reasonable<br>(14:09:27) rosana.ardila: do you think it makes sense to have always the same form and color?<br>(14:09:44) rosana.ardila: yes, black and white versions are of course necessary<br>(14:10:01) Ismael_: I does make sense to always have the same form and color<br>(14:10:11) rosana.ardila: I was thinking that if we have the symbol in all colors it could lead to inconsistency<br>(14:11:14) Ismael_: Look at brands like Coca-Cola, they stick with the same color, and it actually works. Don't use too many colors, it will indeed create inconsistency<br>(14:11:18) rosana.ardila: we can provide the inverse versions<br>(14:11:33) rosana.ardila: what do you think Jens and Ivan?<br>(14:11:47) ivantm: I think blue + grayscale (black/white and maybe different gray values?) would be good - no other colors<br>(14:11:55) JensGH: maybe we can define color not as must, but as strong can?<br>(14:12:21) rosana.ardila: ivan I agree with you<br>(14:12:32) rosana.ardila: Jens, what do you mean exactly?<br>(14:12:33) JensGH: black and inverse are� must..<br>(14:12:58) JensGH: we can say please use our colors, but if there is a special event we should allow other colors...<br>(14:13:19) Ismael_: like conference logo's?<br>(14:13:27) JensGH: but only for the symbol.. yes, for example...<br>(14:13:47) rosana.ardila: but then we would have to be very clear when and how<br>(14:14:17) Ismael_: If it would only be for the symbol and not the logo, I think it is a good compromise<br>(14:14:38) Ismael_: that way you would still give some events some freedom without being to restricted<br>(14:15:22) JensGH: this is a little tricky, i admit.. can we move such a color decisions to marketing council?<br>(14:15:25) rosana.ardila: this would mean, that in the logo usage guidelines (the symbol section) we should be very clear who can do this and when<br>(14:15:37) rosana.ardila: otherwise the symbol might be changed everytime<br>(14:16:06) rosana.ardila: we could try to come up with a solution<br>(14:16:19) rosana.ardila: we still can post this IRC log to the list and hear other voices<br>(14:16:21) Ismael_: Then we should have a "call home" option if they actually want to make any changes to the logo/symbol<br>(14:16:32) rosana.ardila: if we can't find a solution we can go to the council, what do you think?<br>(14:16:56) JensGH: we can write something like: other colors allowed in conjunction with OOo marketing?<br>(14:17:08) rosana.ardila: Ismael, that's a good idea, but at the end of the day who is entitle to make those decisions?<br>(14:17:50) Ismael_: Good question<br>(14:18:01) Ismael_:&nbsp;?<br>(14:18:18) rosana.ardila: the idea of the guidelines is to make as much as possible clear, so that people don't have to ask so much about the logo<br>(14:18:30) rosana.ardila: I read the logo list and that's a lot of work for Florian<br>(14:18:51) rosana.ardila: I'm not saying that it isn't an alternative<br>(14:18:54) JensGH: maybe we should ask him about it...<br>(14:19:14) rosana.ardila: is just that I think guidelines are there to make those processes smoother<br>(14:19:25) rosana.ardila: right, that's a good idea, we can ask him<br>(14:19:26) Ismael_: But since it is only allowed to be changed sporadically, like annually conferences, it could not be so much work&nbsp;?<br>(14:19:57) JensGH: we can define color strict for now, but keep in mind adding this option later...<br>(14:20:13) rosana.ardila: that would be an option<br>(14:20:20) rosana.ardila: the style can anyway be changed<br>(14:20:35) ivantm: the conference might be an easy enough exception to handle... the question is, when/how many exceptions to allow because I can see different NL communities wanting to use logos customized to flags, etc<br>(14:20:43) rosana.ardila: exactly!<br>(14:21:34) Ismael_: honestly, I prefer to have a single, strong identity. So localised versions should also have guidelines. For example:<br>(14:21:44) rosana.ardila: I think it is easier to have just one form and color, the rest of the creative work can be dne by the NL comunities<br>(14:22:18) _Nesshof_ [~martin@nat/sun/x-nypipnjatygrhqir] entered the room.<br>(14:22:28) ivantm: I have prepared an example for you to consider: whether this would be acceptable modification of the symbol<br>(14:22:33) Ismael_: We could use the logo, but a bold line under it, and then they can add text like country in any preferred colour they want, that way they don't touch the logo or symbol itself<br>(14:22:33) ivantm: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/images/7/71/PlanetLogoDraft.svg<br>(14:23:10) JensGH: yes this should be allowed,too<br>(14:23:39) JensGH: but we need some control for official use here...<br>(14:23:46) rosana.ardila: exactly...<br>(14:24:27) rosana.ardila: we could discuss the symbol usage guidelines in the branding list and continue the discussion in the next IRC chat<br>(14:24:34) rosana.ardila: that way we can hear other voices<br>(14:24:43) Ismael_: OK<br>(14:24:50) ivantm: especially from people who would like to modify it<br>(14:24:54) rosana.ardila: exactly<br>(14:25:24) rosana.ardila: if that's ok for all, we can move to the logo usage guidelines<br>(14:25:26) Ismael_: Perhaps what we can already discuss is, when and where the symbol may be applied<br>(14:26:12) JensGH: i think: complete optional - standalone, additonal...<br>(14:26:33) Ismael_: Can it be used as replacement for the logo?<br>(14:26:45) rosana.ardila: good point Ismael...<br>(14:26:49) JensGH: the symbol is like the firefox symbol...<br>(14:27:09) rosana.ardila: I thin in firefoy the symbol is the logo, right?<br>(14:27:16) rosana.ardila: and they don't allow any changes<br>(14:27:38) JensGH: hm they have a firefox stroke and the logo.. they use it standalone or combined<br>(14:28:11) JensGH: yes but the fox is complete.. but i remember they made a silver version once on a shirt<br>(14:28:39) JensGH: i think they handle it strict with special event option<br>(14:28:46) rosana.ardila: ok<br>(14:28:51) rosana.ardila: we can look into it<br>(14:29:27) rosana.ardila: I personally think that if the symbol is going to be used sometimes instead of the logo it shoulb be very clear when it can be modified<br>(14:30:29) Ismael_: I think the symbol will be more used as an icon for applications / desktop<br>(14:30:46) Ismael_: and not so much as a logo replacement<br>(14:31:03) rosana.ardila: maybe we can clarify this with the branding list<br>(14:31:29) Ismael_: Ok, we will leave this one open for now?<br>(14:31:33) rosana.ardila: 1. Action item: clarify symbol usage guidelines<br>(14:31:33) ivantm: +1<br>(14:31:37) rosana.ardila: ok<br>(14:31:46) rosana.ardila: that's an action item<br>(14:32:21) rosana.ardila: Shall we go back to the logo usage guidelines (lug)<br>(14:32:36) rosana.ardila:&nbsp;?<br>(14:32:37) Ismael_: Ok for me<br>(14:32:51) JensGH: ok... what about cmyk/pantone colors?<br>(14:32:53) ivantm: yes please<br>(14:33:09) rosana.ardila: good point Jens<br>(14:33:14) JensGH: still missing<br>(14:33:18) rosana.ardila: that would be an action item for me too<br>(14:33:24) Ismael_: cmyk is easy to convert. The problem is pantone<br>(14:33:44) rosana.ardila: I'll talk to Stella<br>(14:34:23) JensGH: ok<br>(14:34:42) rosana.ardila: ok, already in my list<br>(14:35:36) JensGH: what next? white space rule?<br>(14:35:42) rosana.ardila: right<br>(14:35:47) rosana.ardila: there are two proposals<br>(14:35:50) rosana.ardila: very similar<br>(14:36:21) Ismael_: I go for the second option<br>(14:36:31) Ismael_: The one where the "O" is used as space<br>(14:36:37) rosana.ardila: ok<br>(14:36:42) rosana.ardila: 1 vote&nbsp;:)<br>(14:36:51) JensGH: yes 2nd is it<br>(14:37:02) ivantm: I think the second option would be quicker to figure out in graphics editing programs by a few milliseconds&nbsp;:)<br>(14:37:13) rosana.ardila: ok<br>(14:37:23) rosana.ardila: I like 2 also<br>(14:37:42) Ismael_: That was easy...<br>(14:37:59) rosana.ardila: we choose 2 and ask if anyone disagrees, if not we take it, would that be ok?<br>(14:38:16) Ismael_: Fine with me<br>(14:38:19) ivantm: sure. I hope it won't be a contentious issue<br>(14:38:28) rosana.ardila: it has been there for a while<br>(14:38:35) rosana.ardila: but sure, we will inform the list<br>(14:39:06) Ismael_: The minimum sizes?<br>(14:39:11) rosana.ardila: everyone on the list can choose<br>(14:39:14) rosana.ardila: yes<br>(14:39:31) rosana.ardila: ok minimum size<br>(14:39:42) rosana.ardila: Bernhard send a good proposal<br>(14:39:55) Ismael_:&nbsp;?<br>(14:40:02) rosana.ardila: it might help to see it as the whote space, to be able to chosse<br>(14:40:45) ivantm: Bernhard suggested 80x25<br>(14:40:55) ivantm: (without whitespace)<br>(14:41:13) rosana.ardila: Stella suggested 100 x 31 pixel (35 x 11 mm)<br>(14:41:53) Ismael_: Did anyone tested the readability on screen and on print&nbsp;?<br>(14:42:00) rosana.ardila: would it be of help to see the actual bitmap?<br>(14:42:05) rosana.ardila: very good point Ismael<br>(14:42:40) JensGH: yes you must see it...<br>(14:42:50) Ismael_: I'm going to see if I can 'o quick make a sample on paper and on screen&nbsp;;)<br>(14:42:54) rosana.ardila: ok, that would be another action item<br>(14:43:00) rosana.ardila: that would be great Isamel<br>(14:43:05) rosana.ardila:&nbsp;:)<br>(14:45:38) JensGH: i use the time add add a bw logo now^^<br>(14:46:44) rosana.ardila: Jens, when do you thinkthat we need the black and white logo?<br>(14:47:33) JensGH: yes, if someone need it, we should provide a guideline...<br>(14:47:41) rosana.ardila: I think we could think about the usage, so that we don't have at the end 2 official logos<br>(14:48:20) ivantm: for B/W printing - the old logo has B/W versions so I assumed they might be useful with the new logo too<br>(14:48:29) JensGH: I added it so everyone can check... but every logo i know has a bw version<br>(14:49:19) ivantm: that was quick, thanks Jens!<br>(14:49:22) rosana.ardila: ok, we could anyway add some text saying that it isn't the official logo<br>(14:49:49) rosana.ardila: the blue/black contrast works actually well with bw printers<br>(14:50:09) JensGH: yes... bw logos are used for pencils and such kind of stuff...<br>(14:50:18) rosana.ardila: you're right<br>(14:50:26) rosana.ardila: we could think about that<br>(14:50:36) rosana.ardila: for merchandising<br>(14:51:21) rosana.ardila: I will also add this point for the discussion on the list<br>(14:51:29) ivantm: do we need a special greyscale variant?<br>(14:51:45) rosana.ardila: I'm not sure...<br>(14:51:49) ivantm: or is the black and blue printed on b/w good enough?<br>(14:51:52) JensGH: i would prefer bw over greyscale then<br>(14:52:12) rosana.ardila: we can discuss this in the list, I think both are good points<br>(14:53:01) JensGH: ok<br>(14:53:09) Ismael_: +1 grayscale<br>(14:54:00) rosana.ardila: I add this to the discussion items<br>(14:55:02) Ismael_: Ok, for the size: 85px wide on paper does not read very well, the blue color at least<br>(14:56:07) ivantm: what about on screen? print is quite a different case because of dpi values...<br>(14:56:24) ivantm: so the minimum size should be on screen only...<br>(14:56:55) rosana.ardila: ivan I think you're right about the screen being more important, beu I think that it would also be good to take print into account<br>(14:57:25) Ismael_: If you have PDF manuals, that are used on screen, and printed as well, than we have a problem<br>(14:57:57) ivantm: we could have another min. size for print.. but a 85px PNG image vs a vector image scaled to 85px will print quite differently<br>(14:58:14) Ismael_: true<br>(14:58:23) rosana.ardila: but then we would have 2 different minimun size<br>(14:58:24) Ismael_: on screen it's ok 85px<br>(14:58:32) rosana.ardila: wouldn't it be easier to just have 1<br>(14:58:39) rosana.ardila: is 100 px too big?<br>(14:59:10) JensGH: 85px on screen is readable, just a second i add it on wiki, too - both<br>(14:59:29) rosana.ardila: thanks Jens!<br>(15:01:39) ivantm: ideally we should have just one size, but my point is that depending on the graphic format used, it may come out differently.<br>(15:01:45) rosana.ardila: ok<br>(15:01:51) rosana.ardila: I understand<br>(15:02:29) rosana.ardila: do you know how 100px looks like on print=<br>(15:02:30) rosana.ardila:&nbsp;?<br>(15:02:49) Ismael_: 3,5 cm<br>(15:03:14) JensGH: ok i make some very quick images.. they are now added on wiki<br>(15:03:15) Ismael_: depending on the dpi<br>(15:03:27) JensGH: 100 / 85<br>(15:03:30) Ismael_: jens, could you give me the direct link<br>(15:03:40) rosana.ardila: thanks Jens<br>(15:03:43) JensGH: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Branding_Initiative/branding_guidelines_draft#Minimum_Sizes<br>(15:03:49) rosana.ardila: well, I personally think the 100 px is better<br>(15:03:49) Ismael_: thanks<br>(15:03:53) ivantm: plus Writer uses cm/inches not pixels for specifying picture dimensions (at least by default)<br>(15:04:16) JensGH: 85 got some problem wit the small gull<br>(15:04:27) rosana.ardila: I would go with 100px<br>(15:04:45) JensGH: me too, 100px<br>(15:05:05) ivantm: 100px is a nice round number and if it's considerably more legible, then +1 from me<br>(15:05:40) rosana.ardila: ok, same as with white space, we give the list the option of expressing their thoughts<br>(15:06:00) Ismael_: +1 100px<br>(15:06:06) louis_to [~louis_to@nat/sun/x-xulpvhelsssnswwo] entered the room.<br>(15:06:20) Ismael_: also the .org looks better in print with 100px<br>(15:06:26) louis_to: hi all, sorry for being late, other meeting<br>(15:06:26) rosana.ardila: ok<br>(15:06:32) rosana.ardila: hi louis<br>(15:06:37) JensGH: hi<br>(15:06:40) Ismael_: hello<br>(15:06:46) ivantm: Hi Louis<br>(15:06:55) louis_to: hi... but I return to lurking....<br>(15:07:33) rosana.ardila: I think we were about to finish<br>(15:07:40) rosana.ardila: do you have any other points?<br>(15:07:41) louis_to: right&nbsp;;-)<br>(15:08:33) rosana.ardila: I have collected the action items:<br>(15:08:46) rosana.ardila: 1. clarify symbol usage and exceptions<br>(15:09:06) rosana.ardila: 2. find pantone color<br>(15:09:47) rosana.ardila: 3. white space proposal 2 chosen, ask the list for opinions/concerns<br>(15:10:40) rosana.ardila: 4. Choose between a) bw logo, b) blue/black logo on bw printer, c) greyscale for blu/black logo<br>(15:11:00) rosana.ardila: 5. If bw logo, when can it be used<br>(15:11:19) rosana.ardila: 6. minimum size 100 px, ask the list for opinions/concerns<br>(15:11:31) rosana.ardila: have I everything?<br>(15:11:38) Ismael_: i think so<br>(15:11:48) Ismael_: i would like to add this:<br>(15:11:53) Ismael_: I bumpted on the this website the other day, and you can see a lot of "how not use the logo". Some things we do not have we should consider. https://account.alltel.com/content/corporate/media/identity_guidelines.html<br>(15:12:21) JensGH: yes - I added a final color 100px logo for minimal size... so everyone can check it<br>(15:12:41) rosana.ardila: thank you Jens<br>(15:13:24) rosana.ardila: Ismael if you would like to add some more sections to the "Don'ts" you can do it<br>(15:13:36) rosana.ardila: that helps to be more clear<br>(15:13:41) Ismael_: Ok, i will add some<br>(15:14:09) rosana.ardila: cool<br>(15:14:30) rosana.ardila: I think we have done our homework for today<br>(15:14:31) ivantm: We could add a point about using OpenOffice.org rather than Open Office or OpenOffice in text like on the alltel site<br>(15:14:41) rosana.ardila: good point Ivan!<br>(15:14:59) rosana.ardila: you can add all of that to the wiki<br>(15:15:05) ivantm: will do<br>(15:15:09) rosana.ardila:&nbsp;:)<br>(15:15:11) rosana.ardila: great<br>(15:15:16) Ismael_: something that i just came up with. the TM (trademark) symbol<br>(15:15:23) Ismael_: do we need to use it always?<br>(15:15:42) rosana.ardila: I will clarify with Stefan how the TM is to be used<br>(15:16:07) rosana.ardila: action item # 7<br>(15:16:19) Ismael_: I do know that in the USA it is necessary, but in europe it has no meaning unless it is actually registered.<br>(15:16:30) rosana.ardila: ok, I'll ask him<br>(15:16:59) rosana.ardila: I will write to the branding list our action items<br>(15:17:08) rosana.ardila: next Thursday we have the next IRC meeting<br>(15:17:17) Ismael_: Ok, thanks Rosana<br>(15:17:21) rosana.ardila: Ivan, I'm glad we could have you on board<br>(15:17:36) rosana.ardila: I know it's hard to find a good time<br>(15:17:57) rosana.ardila: Jens and Ismael as well thanks for coming<br>(15:18:00) rosana.ardila:&nbsp;:)<br>(15:18:03) Ismael_:&nbsp;;)<br>(15:18:40) ivantm: no problem, it's been a pleasure<br>(15:18:54) rosana.ardila: great, Bernhard will join the chat on Tuesday<br>(15:19:12) rosana.ardila: let's keep on working on the list<br>(15:19:28) rosana.ardila: it was also a pleasure<br>(15:20:11) ivantm: see you all on the mailing list&nbsp;:) - good afternoon (and for me, goodnight&nbsp;:))<br>(15:20:40) Ismael_: good day/night everyone<br>(15:20:43) ivantm left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).<br>(15:20:44) rosana.ardila: see you!<br>(15:20:45) JensGH: ^^ goodnight and bye everyone.. till next time...<br>(15:20:51) rosana.ardila: bye!<br>(15:20:54) Ismael_ left the room.<br>(15:21:00) JensGH left the room (quit: Quit: JensGH).<br>