Application Rebranding - Project Home Page/Logo Guidelines/20100512
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Conversation with #ooobranding
(13:55:03) mode (+ns ) by lindbohm.freenode.net
(13:58:46) ivantm [~firstname.lastname@example.org] entered the room.
(13:59:53) rosana.ardila: Hi Ivan!
(13:59:58) Ismael_ [~email@example.com] entered the room.
(14:00:07) ivantm: good afternoon :)
(14:00:47) JensGH [~JensGH@dslb-084-063-130-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] entered the room.
(14:01:00) JensGH: hi
(14:01:03) rosana.ardila: Hi Jens
(14:01:05) ivantm: Hi Rosana, Ismael, Jens!
(14:01:07) rosana.ardila: Hi Ismael
(14:01:18) rosana.ardila: nice to have you here
(14:01:21) Ismael_: Hi everyone
(14:01:28) Ismael_: thanks
(14:01:55) rosana.ardila: we need to finalize the logo usage guidelines
(14:02:07) rosana.ardila: for the trademark policy they are imortant
(14:02:29) rosana.ardila: and they are sthe starting point for the branding guidelines
(14:03:02) rosana.ardila: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Branding_Initiative/branding_guidelines_draft
(14:03:28) rosana.ardila: What are in your opinion the next steps to finalize the logo usage guidelines?
(14:03:48) Ismael_: Does these logo usage guidelines only include the logo itself or also the gulls?
(14:03:59) rosana.ardila: good point
(14:04:05) rosana.ardila: the gulls are part of the logo
(14:04:17) rosana.ardila: but I guess that you refer to the new "symbol"
(14:04:17) ivantm: what about the gull orb symbol?
(14:04:23) Ismael_: yes, the symbol
(14:04:26) rosana.ardila: ok
(14:04:36) rosana.ardila: so until now we have only talked about the logo
(14:04:45) JensGH: as i understand the symbol is optional...
(14:04:48) rosana.ardila: but it would also make sense to make the guidlines for the symbol
(14:04:57) rosana.ardila: exactly, the symbol is optional
(14:05:15) rosana.ardila: but it could help to have similar rules, what do you think?
(14:05:33) Ismael_: it could be helpful to add guidelines for the symbol, as it probably will be used as a favicon or a application icon / tray icon
(14:05:58) Ismael_: so adding black/white versions of it etc.
(14:06:07) ivantm: A glossy version of it is already being used for the OOo 3.2.1 main application icon
(14:06:08) rosana.ardila: I think this is a good idea
(14:06:21) JensGH: there was mentioned we can change the symbol as we like... so i think it should not get too much guidelines
(14:06:54) ivantm: +1 - it could be a basis for some nice NL community logos
(14:06:57) rosana.ardila: I think the idea was to use the symbol as you like
(14:07:04) rosana.ardila: but not to change the color or strech it
(14:07:10) Ismael_: From what I understood, the symbol should change to follow trends
(14:07:16) rosana.ardila: yes
(14:07:31) rosana.ardila: the example was to have a flat symbol that for example right now looks glossy
(14:07:40) rosana.ardila: but form and color are the same
(14:08:15) rosana.ardila: I think that if we change the color of the symbol it might loose the consistency
(14:08:31) rosana.ardila: but the style can change
(14:09:23) Ismael_: Some linux based OS uses tray icons that are all integrated into the OS like Ubuntu. So they opt for Black/white versions. I think that this is reasonable
(14:09:27) rosana.ardila: do you think it makes sense to have always the same form and color?
(14:09:44) rosana.ardila: yes, black and white versions are of course necessary
(14:10:01) Ismael_: I does make sense to always have the same form and color
(14:10:11) rosana.ardila: I was thinking that if we have the symbol in all colors it could lead to inconsistency
(14:11:14) Ismael_: Look at brands like Coca-Cola, they stick with the same color, and it actually works. Don't use too many colors, it will indeed create inconsistency
(14:11:18) rosana.ardila: we can provide the inverse versions
(14:11:33) rosana.ardila: what do you think Jens and Ivan?
(14:11:47) ivantm: I think blue + grayscale (black/white and maybe different gray values?) would be good - no other colors
(14:11:55) JensGH: maybe we can define color not as must, but as strong can?
(14:12:21) rosana.ardila: ivan I agree with you
(14:12:32) rosana.ardila: Jens, what do you mean exactly?
(14:12:33) JensGH: black and inverse are� must..
(14:12:58) JensGH: we can say please use our colors, but if there is a special event we should allow other colors...
(14:13:19) Ismael_: like conference logo's?
(14:13:27) JensGH: but only for the symbol.. yes, for example...
(14:13:47) rosana.ardila: but then we would have to be very clear when and how
(14:14:17) Ismael_: If it would only be for the symbol and not the logo, I think it is a good compromise
(14:14:38) Ismael_: that way you would still give some events some freedom without being to restricted
(14:15:22) JensGH: this is a little tricky, i admit.. can we move such a color decisions to marketing council?
(14:15:25) rosana.ardila: this would mean, that in the logo usage guidelines (the symbol section) we should be very clear who can do this and when
(14:15:37) rosana.ardila: otherwise the symbol might be changed everytime
(14:16:06) rosana.ardila: we could try to come up with a solution
(14:16:19) rosana.ardila: we still can post this IRC log to the list and hear other voices
(14:16:21) Ismael_: Then we should have a "call home" option if they actually want to make any changes to the logo/symbol
(14:16:32) rosana.ardila: if we can't find a solution we can go to the council, what do you think?
(14:16:56) JensGH: we can write something like: other colors allowed in conjunction with OOo marketing?
(14:17:08) rosana.ardila: Ismael, that's a good idea, but at the end of the day who is entitle to make those decisions?
(14:17:50) Ismael_: Good question
(14:18:01) Ismael_: ?
(14:18:18) rosana.ardila: the idea of the guidelines is to make as much as possible clear, so that people don't have to ask so much about the logo
(14:18:30) rosana.ardila: I read the logo list and that's a lot of work for Florian
(14:18:51) rosana.ardila: I'm not saying that it isn't an alternative
(14:18:54) JensGH: maybe we should ask him about it...
(14:19:14) rosana.ardila: is just that I think guidelines are there to make those processes smoother
(14:19:25) rosana.ardila: right, that's a good idea, we can ask him
(14:19:26) Ismael_: But since it is only allowed to be changed sporadically, like annually conferences, it could not be so much work ?
(14:19:57) JensGH: we can define color strict for now, but keep in mind adding this option later...
(14:20:13) rosana.ardila: that would be an option
(14:20:20) rosana.ardila: the style can anyway be changed
(14:20:35) ivantm: the conference might be an easy enough exception to handle... the question is, when/how many exceptions to allow because I can see different NL communities wanting to use logos customized to flags, etc
(14:20:43) rosana.ardila: exactly!
(14:21:34) Ismael_: honestly, I prefer to have a single, strong identity. So localised versions should also have guidelines. For example:
(14:21:44) rosana.ardila: I think it is easier to have just one form and color, the rest of the creative work can be dne by the NL comunities
(14:22:18) _Nesshof_ [~martin@nat/sun/x-nypipnjatygrhqir] entered the room.
(14:22:28) ivantm: I have prepared an example for you to consider: whether this would be acceptable modification of the symbol
(14:22:33) Ismael_: We could use the logo, but a bold line under it, and then they can add text like country in any preferred colour they want, that way they don't touch the logo or symbol itself
(14:22:33) ivantm: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/images/7/71/PlanetLogoDraft.svg
(14:23:10) JensGH: yes this should be allowed,too
(14:23:39) JensGH: but we need some control for official use here...
(14:23:46) rosana.ardila: exactly...
(14:24:27) rosana.ardila: we could discuss the symbol usage guidelines in the branding list and continue the discussion in the next IRC chat
(14:24:34) rosana.ardila: that way we can hear other voices
(14:24:43) Ismael_: OK
(14:24:50) ivantm: especially from people who would like to modify it
(14:24:54) rosana.ardila: exactly
(14:25:24) rosana.ardila: if that's ok for all, we can move to the logo usage guidelines
(14:25:26) Ismael_: Perhaps what we can already discuss is, when and where the symbol may be applied
(14:26:12) JensGH: i think: complete optional - standalone, additonal...
(14:26:33) Ismael_: Can it be used as replacement for the logo?
(14:26:45) rosana.ardila: good point Ismael...
(14:26:49) JensGH: the symbol is like the firefox symbol...
(14:27:09) rosana.ardila: I thin in firefoy the symbol is the logo, right?
(14:27:16) rosana.ardila: and they don't allow any changes
(14:27:38) JensGH: hm they have a firefox stroke and the logo.. they use it standalone or combined
(14:28:11) JensGH: yes but the fox is complete.. but i remember they made a silver version once on a shirt
(14:28:39) JensGH: i think they handle it strict with special event option
(14:28:46) rosana.ardila: ok
(14:28:51) rosana.ardila: we can look into it
(14:29:27) rosana.ardila: I personally think that if the symbol is going to be used sometimes instead of the logo it shoulb be very clear when it can be modified
(14:30:29) Ismael_: I think the symbol will be more used as an icon for applications / desktop
(14:30:46) Ismael_: and not so much as a logo replacement
(14:31:03) rosana.ardila: maybe we can clarify this with the branding list
(14:31:29) Ismael_: Ok, we will leave this one open for now?
(14:31:33) rosana.ardila: 1. Action item: clarify symbol usage guidelines
(14:31:33) ivantm: +1
(14:31:37) rosana.ardila: ok
(14:31:46) rosana.ardila: that's an action item
(14:32:21) rosana.ardila: Shall we go back to the logo usage guidelines (lug)
(14:32:36) rosana.ardila: ?
(14:32:37) Ismael_: Ok for me
(14:32:51) JensGH: ok... what about cmyk/pantone colors?
(14:32:53) ivantm: yes please
(14:33:09) rosana.ardila: good point Jens
(14:33:14) JensGH: still missing
(14:33:18) rosana.ardila: that would be an action item for me too
(14:33:24) Ismael_: cmyk is easy to convert. The problem is pantone
(14:33:44) rosana.ardila: I'll talk to Stella
(14:34:23) JensGH: ok
(14:34:42) rosana.ardila: ok, already in my list
(14:35:36) JensGH: what next? white space rule?
(14:35:42) rosana.ardila: right
(14:35:47) rosana.ardila: there are two proposals
(14:35:50) rosana.ardila: very similar
(14:36:21) Ismael_: I go for the second option
(14:36:31) Ismael_: The one where the "O" is used as space
(14:36:37) rosana.ardila: ok
(14:36:42) rosana.ardila: 1 vote :)
(14:36:51) JensGH: yes 2nd is it
(14:37:02) ivantm: I think the second option would be quicker to figure out in graphics editing programs by a few milliseconds :)
(14:37:13) rosana.ardila: ok
(14:37:23) rosana.ardila: I like 2 also
(14:37:42) Ismael_: That was easy...
(14:37:59) rosana.ardila: we choose 2 and ask if anyone disagrees, if not we take it, would that be ok?
(14:38:16) Ismael_: Fine with me
(14:38:19) ivantm: sure. I hope it won't be a contentious issue
(14:38:28) rosana.ardila: it has been there for a while
(14:38:35) rosana.ardila: but sure, we will inform the list
(14:39:06) Ismael_: The minimum sizes?
(14:39:11) rosana.ardila: everyone on the list can choose
(14:39:14) rosana.ardila: yes
(14:39:31) rosana.ardila: ok minimum size
(14:39:42) rosana.ardila: Bernhard send a good proposal
(14:39:55) Ismael_: ?
(14:40:02) rosana.ardila: it might help to see it as the whote space, to be able to chosse
(14:40:45) ivantm: Bernhard suggested 80x25
(14:40:55) ivantm: (without whitespace)
(14:41:13) rosana.ardila: Stella suggested 100 x 31 pixelÂ (35 x 11 mm)
(14:41:53) Ismael_: Did anyone tested the readability on screen and on print ?
(14:42:00) rosana.ardila: would it be of help to see the actual bitmap?
(14:42:05) rosana.ardila: very good point Ismael
(14:42:40) JensGH: yes you must see it...
(14:42:50) Ismael_: I'm going to see if I can 'o quick make a sample on paper and on screen ;)
(14:42:54) rosana.ardila: ok, that would be another action item
(14:43:00) rosana.ardila: that would be great Isamel
(14:43:05) rosana.ardila: :)
(14:45:38) JensGH: i use the time add add a bw logo now^^
(14:46:44) rosana.ardila: Jens, when do you thinkthat we need the black and white logo?
(14:47:33) JensGH: yes, if someone need it, we should provide a guideline...
(14:47:41) rosana.ardila: I think we could think about the usage, so that we don't have at the end 2 official logos
(14:48:20) ivantm: for B/W printing - the old logo has B/W versions so I assumed they might be useful with the new logo too
(14:48:29) JensGH: I added it so everyone can check... but every logo i know has a bw version
(14:49:19) ivantm: that was quick, thanks Jens!
(14:49:22) rosana.ardila: ok, we could anyway add some text saying that it isn't the official logo
(14:49:49) rosana.ardila: the blue/black contrast works actually well with bw printers
(14:50:09) JensGH: yes... bw logos are used for pencils and such kind of stuff...
(14:50:18) rosana.ardila: you're right
(14:50:26) rosana.ardila: we could think about that
(14:50:36) rosana.ardila: for merchandising
(14:51:21) rosana.ardila: I will also add this point for the discussion on the list
(14:51:29) ivantm: do we need a special greyscale variant?
(14:51:45) rosana.ardila: I'm not sure...
(14:51:49) ivantm: or is the black and blue printed on b/w good enough?
(14:51:52) JensGH: i would prefer bw over greyscale then
(14:52:12) rosana.ardila: we can discuss this in the list, I think both are good points
(14:53:01) JensGH: ok
(14:53:09) Ismael_: +1 grayscale
(14:54:00) rosana.ardila: I add this to the discussion items
(14:55:02) Ismael_: Ok, for the size: 85px wide on paper does not read very well, the blue color at least
(14:56:07) ivantm: what about on screen? print is quite a different case because of dpi values...
(14:56:24) ivantm: so the minimum size should be on screen only...
(14:56:55) rosana.ardila: ivan I think you're right about the screen being more important, beu I think that it would also be good to take print into account
(14:57:25) Ismael_: If you have PDF manuals, that are used on screen, and printed as well, than we have a problem
(14:57:57) ivantm: we could have another min. size for print.. but a 85px PNG image vs a vector image scaled to 85px will print quite differently
(14:58:14) Ismael_: true
(14:58:23) rosana.ardila: but then we would have 2 different minimun size
(14:58:24) Ismael_: on screen it's ok 85px
(14:58:32) rosana.ardila: wouldn't it be easier to just have 1
(14:58:39) rosana.ardila: is 100 px too big?
(14:59:10) JensGH: 85px on screen is readable, just a second i add it on wiki, too - both
(14:59:29) rosana.ardila: thanks Jens!
(15:01:39) ivantm: ideally we should have just one size, but my point is that depending on the graphic format used, it may come out differently.
(15:01:45) rosana.ardila: ok
(15:01:51) rosana.ardila: I understand
(15:02:29) rosana.ardila: do you know how 100px looks like on print=
(15:02:30) rosana.ardila: ?
(15:02:49) Ismael_: 3,5 cm
(15:03:14) JensGH: ok i make some very quick images.. they are now added on wiki
(15:03:15) Ismael_: depending on the dpi
(15:03:27) JensGH: 100 / 85
(15:03:30) Ismael_: jens, could you give me the direct link
(15:03:40) rosana.ardila: thanks Jens
(15:03:43) JensGH: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Branding_Initiative/branding_guidelines_draft#Minimum_Sizes
(15:03:49) rosana.ardila: well, I personally think the 100 px is better
(15:03:49) Ismael_: thanks
(15:03:53) ivantm: plus Writer uses cm/inches not pixels for specifying picture dimensions (at least by default)
(15:04:16) JensGH: 85 got some problem wit the small gull
(15:04:27) rosana.ardila: I would go with 100px
(15:04:45) JensGH: me too, 100px
(15:05:05) ivantm: 100px is a nice round number and if it's considerably more legible, then +1 from me
(15:05:40) rosana.ardila: ok, same as with white space, we give the list the option of expressing their thoughts
(15:06:00) Ismael_: +1 100px
(15:06:06) louis_to [~louis_to@nat/sun/x-xulpvhelsssnswwo] entered the room.
(15:06:20) Ismael_: also the .org looks better in print with 100px
(15:06:26) louis_to: hi all, sorry for being late, other meeting
(15:06:26) rosana.ardila: ok
(15:06:32) rosana.ardila: hi louis
(15:06:37) JensGH: hi
(15:06:40) Ismael_: hello
(15:06:46) ivantm: Hi Louis
(15:06:55) louis_to: hi... but I return to lurking....
(15:07:33) rosana.ardila: I think we were about to finish
(15:07:40) rosana.ardila: do you have any other points?
(15:07:41) louis_to: right ;-)
(15:08:33) rosana.ardila: I have collected the action items:
(15:08:46) rosana.ardila: 1. clarify symbol usage and exceptions
(15:09:06) rosana.ardila: 2. find pantone color
(15:09:47) rosana.ardila: 3. white space proposal 2 chosen, ask the list for opinions/concerns
(15:10:40) rosana.ardila: 4. Choose between a) bw logo, b) blue/black logo on bw printer, c) greyscale for blu/black logo
(15:11:00) rosana.ardila: 5. If bw logo, when can it be used
(15:11:19) rosana.ardila: 6. minimum size 100 px, ask the list for opinions/concerns
(15:11:31) rosana.ardila: have I everything?
(15:11:38) Ismael_: i think so
(15:11:48) Ismael_: i would like to add this:
(15:11:53) Ismael_: I bumpted on the this website the other day, and you can see a lot of "how not use the logo". Some things we do not have we should consider. https://account.alltel.com/content/corporate/media/identity_guidelines.html
(15:12:21) JensGH: yes - I added a final color 100px logo for minimal size... so everyone can check it
(15:12:41) rosana.ardila: thank you Jens
(15:13:24) rosana.ardila: Ismael if you would like to add some more sections to the "Don'ts" you can do it
(15:13:36) rosana.ardila: that helps to be more clear
(15:13:41) Ismael_: Ok, i will add some
(15:14:09) rosana.ardila: cool
(15:14:30) rosana.ardila: I think we have done our homework for today
(15:14:31) ivantm: We could add a point about using OpenOffice.org rather than Open Office or OpenOffice in text like on the alltel site
(15:14:41) rosana.ardila: good point Ivan!
(15:14:59) rosana.ardila: you can add all of that to the wiki
(15:15:05) ivantm: will do
(15:15:09) rosana.ardila: :)
(15:15:11) rosana.ardila: great
(15:15:16) Ismael_: something that i just came up with. the TM (trademark) symbol
(15:15:23) Ismael_: do we need to use it always?
(15:15:42) rosana.ardila: I will clarify with Stefan how the TM is to be used
(15:16:07) rosana.ardila: action item # 7
(15:16:19) Ismael_: I do know that in the USA it is necessary, but in europe it has no meaning unless it is actually registered.
(15:16:30) rosana.ardila: ok, I'll ask him
(15:16:59) rosana.ardila: I will write to the branding list our action items
(15:17:08) rosana.ardila: next Thursday we have the next IRC meeting
(15:17:17) Ismael_: Ok, thanks Rosana
(15:17:21) rosana.ardila: Ivan, I'm glad we could have you on board
(15:17:36) rosana.ardila: I know it's hard to find a good time
(15:17:57) rosana.ardila: Jens and Ismael as well thanks for coming
(15:18:00) rosana.ardila: :)
(15:18:03) Ismael_: ;)
(15:18:40) ivantm: no problem, it's been a pleasure
(15:18:54) rosana.ardila: great, Bernhard will join the chat on Tuesday
(15:19:12) rosana.ardila: let's keep on working on the list
(15:19:28) rosana.ardila: it was also a pleasure
(15:20:11) ivantm: see you all on the mailing list :) - good afternoon (and for me, goodnight :))
(15:20:40) Ismael_: good day/night everyone
(15:20:43) ivantm left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(15:20:44) rosana.ardila: see you!
(15:20:45) JensGH: ^^ goodnight and bye everyone.. till next time...
(15:20:51) rosana.ardila: bye!
(15:20:54) Ismael_ left the room.
(15:21:00) JensGH left the room (quit: Quit: JensGH).