Log Mac Meeting 29 August 2007
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[15:00] <ericb2> Let's start the meeting ?
[15:00] * rbircher_ is now known as rbircher
[15:01] <ericb2> Agenda is : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Port_Meetings
[15:01] <ericb2> 1. Welcome new devs joining Mac OS X port
[15:02] <ericb2> \O/ new devs arounds ? \O /
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[15:03] <PhilippL> next point ?
[15:04] <ericb2> Hi PhilippL :)
[15:04] <ericb2> 2. Latest Cocoa news ( aquavcl03 news )
[15:04] <PhilippL> ericb2: hi :-)
[15:05] <rbircher> Ah, its meeting
[15:05] <ericb2> rbircher: you're welcome
[15:06] <rbircher> Thanks ericb2
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[15:07] <ericb2> PhilippL: some news ?
[15:07] <rbircher> and hi at all
[15:07] <PhilippL> no, sorry.
[15:07] <ericb2> ssa: Hi Stephan !
[15:07] * hdu_hh gives channel operator status to ssa
[15:07] <ssa> hi everybody!
[15:07] <ericb2> PhilippL: I hope your holidays were good :)
[15:08] <PhilippL> ericb2: thanks. the only contact i had with cocoa was of the brown, sugary variant.
[15:08] <ssa> ericb2: you already started with the agenda ?
[15:08] paveljanik PhilippL
[15:08] <ericb2> PhilippL: :)
[15:08] <ericb2> ssa: no
[15:08] <PhilippL> ssa: currently it's 2. cocoa news -> no news
[15:08] <ericb2> ssa: this is just the begining
[15:09] <ericb2> well, I have some news from my side
[15:09] <ericb2> not sure it will work, though
[15:09] <ericb2> a big problem we will have with Cocoa version is the .nib creation
[15:10] <ericb2> and I have found a way, I'll demonstrate during OOoCon2007
[15:10] <ericb2> the main work has been done by Rbert Dargaud, alias Bob ( some already know him )
[15:10] <ericb2> the idea is :
[15:10] <ericb2> use .src files
[15:10] <ericb2> turn them into .xml
[15:11] <ericb2> use the .xml to create .nibs
[15:11] <ericb2> the missing part is the controler part
[15:11] <ericb2> and a lot of work has to be done
[15:11] <PhilippL> sounds good :-)
[15:12] <ericb2> some infos are missing, like how connect everything, but I guess we have the ressources
[15:12] <ericb2> To be continued :)
[15:14] <ericb2> mikesic: maybe you can talk about the Mac OS X spellcheker ?
[15:14] <ericb2> PhilippL: I have a question about .src
[15:15] <ericb2> PhilippL: are all windows, dialog boxes ..etc defined by .src, or do we have some exceptions ?
[15:15] <PhilippL> there are exceptions.
[15:16] <ericb2> PhilippL: ok
[15:16] <PhilippL> why ?
[15:17] <ericb2> PhilippL: just for my information
[15:17] <PhilippL> some dialogs are created "by hand" in code, some use xml files (especially component services)
[15:19] <PhilippL> next point ?
[15:19] <rbircher> Sorry, I have not experience in C++ or Cacoa
[15:19] <ericb2> PhilippL: ok. I asked because I'm discovering this face of OpenOffice.org, and this is extremely interesting
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[15:19] <ericb2> rbircher: no problem, you help us, and everything counts ;)
[15:19] <ericb2> Next point is:
[15:19] <ericb2> 3. Objective-C++: .mm vs. .cxx
[15:19] <rbircher> But why a part of the dialog ar createt bei hand
[15:20] <PhilippL> rbircher: Some code is written in java and therefore cannot use the c++ resource system.
[15:21] <PhilippL> rbircher: then there are some dialogs that are resizeable, which vcl has no support for and these need to position their controls themselves anyway (e.g. the file picker)
[15:21] <PhilippL> .mm vc. .cxx: what point is in the move ? we'll lose the cvs history this way.
[15:22] <rbircher> ok, its only for interesting
[15:22] <ericb2> PhilippL: is the history of Aqua part so long ?
[15:22] <PhilippL> aside from that I don't really care, "a rose by any other name ..." and such.
[15:22] <ericb2> PhilippL: just asking myself
[15:22] <ericb2> PhilippL: yes, the point is: if this is better, we have to use it
[15:23] <ericb2> PhilippL: historically, it was the first approach
[15:23] <PhilippL> ericb2: so what is "better" ?
[15:23] <ericb2> PhilippL: good question :)
[15:23] <mikesic> I have tried to change to .mm, and I found its not simply a matter of changing the extension. The compiler seems to treat the files differently, and I get a whole new set of errors. (Which I haven't had time to fix for .mm)
[15:23] <ericb2> PhilippL: and Florian, who asked to debate, is not there.
[15:24] <PhilippL> Then we should postpone this decision and continue discussion on the mailing list.
[15:24] <mikesic> +1
[15:24] <ericb2> PhilippL: agreed
[15:24] <PhilippL> next point ?
[15:25] <ericb2> 4. a point on Top 5 of issues before Alpha ( to be shipped during OOoCon 2007 )
[15:25] <ericb2> hdu_hh: ?
[15:25] <rbircher> Yes next point
[15:25] <hdu_hh> ericb2> hi
[15:26] <ericb2> hdu_hh: Hi Herbert. Sorry, I was unpolite
[15:26] <hdu_hh> scrollbar is fixed now and tested under luna/kde/gtk
[15:26] <ericb2> hdu_hh: I have seen you modified the scrollbar
[15:26] <ericb2> hdu_hh: good. So you modified common part ? ( I have not read the changes yet )
[15:26] <hdu_hh> the "strange" only-top and double-both modes are not supported yet though
[15:27] <hdu_hh> yes, the common part is modified
[15:27] <ericb2> hdu_hh: if Double Max ( Apple(C) ) and Single are , this is perfect
[15:27] <hdu_hh> a little only: platforms without support for the new widgets will do "the old thing"
[15:27] <ericb2> hdu_hh: I have spent a lot of time to fix that, but you helped a lot. thanks !
[15:28] <hdu_hh> as agreed with ssa and pl we should rewrite the other NWFs to support these new controls too
[15:28] <hdu_hh> I'll do it "en passant" :-)
[15:29] <ericb2> hdu_hh: thanks :)
[15:29] * ericb2 seen ismael added some new controls
[15:29] <ericb2> Ismael replaced the old chekboxes and radio buttons by native ones
[15:30] <ericb2> but this is not aquavclcarbonfixes cws, but aquavcl03
[15:30] <hdu_hh> so, of the top-5 issues only the listbox thing is not ready...
[15:30] <ericb2> and does Tino need help for drag and drop ?
[15:31] <hdu_hh> ericb2: he needs time
[15:31] <ericb2> hdu_hh: I understand
[15:31] <PhilippL> ericb2: checkboxes and radio buttons ? They were native already ?
[15:32] * PhilippL is confused.
[15:32] <ericb2> PhilippL: just read planet -> ismael blog entry is on top
[15:32] <ericb2> http://lebasket.free.fr/blog/index.php
[15:33] <PhilippL> you mean the images in the listboxes, ok
[15:34] <ericb2> Can we define a timeline for aquavclcarbonfixes ?
[15:35] <hdu_hh> ericb2: all issues are marked as fixed now
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[15:36] <ericb2> Before to jump to the next point, I did a summary about current work in progress (including the cws names, and what they have been created for ) : http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=mac&msgNo=5990
[15:36] <ericb2> hdu_hh: so, we have to review the code, before to declare the cws ready for QA
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[15:37] <hdu_hh> ericb2: ok
[15:37] <PhilippL> I'll do that today after the meeting.
[15:38] <ericb2> PhilippL: thank you !
[15:38] <hdu_hh> ericb2: and there is the listbox problem for the very small UI font. OTOH I don't think it is as important as having it look good with normal UI fonts
[15:39] <PhilippL> there is however a problem with the offset of the dropdowns of comboboxes.
[15:39] <ericb2> PhilippL: yes, my first fix was close to workaround that, but it was not the best solution
[15:40] <ericb2> hdu_hh: the first look is the most important
[15:40] <ericb2> hdu_hh: and only comboboxes are visible
[15:40] <ericb2> Another important issue: we have leaks
[15:40] <ericb2> memory leaks
[15:41] <ericb2> I have tried to trace/ fix some, but this is complicated, and we'll need to investigate too in that direction
[15:41] <ericb2> e.g. every copy paste creates ~40 leaks ( average value)
[15:42] <ericb2> they are still crashes with Calc
[15:42] <ericb2> and Impress is not very stable either
[15:43] <hdu_hh> ericb2: still the "getFrame() callback crash"?
[15:43] <ericb2> hdu_hh: something like that, yes
[15:43] <ericb2> hdu_hh: was issue 73691
[15:44] <IZBot> porting PATCH CLOSED FIXED P3 aquavcl01-> calc does instant crashes in some situations http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/ show_bug.cgi?id=73691
[15:45] <PhilippL> ericb2: you mean 40 bytes leak or 40 blocks that are leaked ?
[15:45] <ericb2> PhilippL: 40 new leaks or so, maybe they are blocks, not sure
[15:45] <ericb2> PhilippL: two copy/paste-> 80 ... etc
[15:45] <ericb2> PhilippL: you think this is normal ?
[15:45] <PhilippL> ericb2: so what is this magical 40 ? Where do you get it from ?
[15:46] <ericb2> PhilippL: average value (and important in my eyes )
[15:46] <PhilippL> ericb2: No, leaks are not normal. I just want to know what we are talking about.
[15:46] <PhilippL> ericb2: average value of what ?
[15:47] <ericb2> PhilippL: launching soffice.bin from gdb, and CTRL-C it once the frame appear
[15:47] <PhilippL> ericb2: what tool does tell you, that 40 whatevers are leaked ?
[15:47] <ericb2> PhilippL: I do , in another Term : leaks soffice.bin
[15:47] <ericb2> PhilippL: between 7 and 11 leaks by default
[15:47] <ericb2> PhilippL: now, I continue ( c in gdb )
[15:48] <ericb2> PhilippL: and doing a new leaks after a copy paste of an image or whatever, I have the previous valus + ~40 leaks
[15:48] <PhilippL> ok, so we're talking 40 malloc'ed blocks.
[15:48] <ericb2> PhilippL: yes
[15:48] <ericb2> PhilippL: and if you repeat the copy/paste operation, you have approximatively 40 n leaks ( n == number of copy paste )
[15:48] <PhilippL> are you sure that is not just the undo buffer filling up ?
[15:49] <ericb2> PhilippL: I don't know. That's the reason why I asked Tino first, and he will investigate. But as you said, this needs some time, and I perfectly unerstand
[15:49] <PhilippL> of course it could be that the new clipboadr implementation leaks like a sieve ...
[15:49] <paveljanik> ericb2: it would be better if you file an issue with extended stack trace so we see from where the leaks come...
[15:50] <ericb2> paveljanik: no problem
[15:50] <paveljanik> or IIRC as it is filed already, give a number
[15:50] <ericb2> paveljanik: I starte issue 81024
[15:50] <IZBot> porting DEFECT NEW P3 fix memory leaks on Aqua ( Carbon ) version http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi? id=81024
[15:50] <paveljanik> ups, you realy want to fix them all under one issue? Isn;t the subject too generic?
[15:51] <ericb2> paveljanik: no, I'll file another issue
[15:51] <ericb2> paveljanik: you are right, the subject is generic
[15:52] <ericb2> paveljanik: I'll search a better summary / title
[15:53] <ericb2> Hot news :
[15:53] * ericb2 proud to announce Mac OS X port will be present at Apple Expo Paris :)
[15:53] <PhilippL> cool !
[15:53] <ericb2> PhilippL: yes, extremely cool !!
[15:53] <mav_eric> indeed good news
[15:54] <ericb2> Other questions, or next point ?
[15:54] <rbircher> Yes, I have a Question
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[15:56] <ericb2> rbircher: shoot :)
[15:56] <rbircher> You know that the aquatic Elements have not enough place in the Dialogs?
[15:57] <PhilippL> rbircher: can currently only be fixed per dialog I fear. Need to file an issue for each.
[15:58] <ericb2> rbircher: can yo please provide us a screenshot ? Maybe you are talking about lisboxes and comboboxes ?
[15:58] <rbircher> It is in all dialogs.
[15:58] <PhilippL> rbircher: then indeed a screenshot would help
[15:59] <ericb2> rbircher: and the resolution of your screen too
[15:59] <rbircher> yes I make a Screenshot, and start a issue
[15:59] <rbircher> ok?
[15:59] <PhilippL> rbircher: perfect
[16:00] <hdu_hh> rbircher: the issue sounds somewhat like issue 80701 and issue 80704?
[16:00] <IZBot> porting DEFECT RESOLVED FIXED P3 listboxes not drawn correctly ( m225 Aqua ) http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/ show_bug.cgi?id=80704
[16:00] <rbircher> ok, thats all from my site
[16:02] <PhilippL> next point ?
[16:02] <ericb2> 5. A point about OOoCon 2007
[16:02] <rbircher> hdu_hh, we talk about later ok?
[16:03] <hdu_hh> rbircher: ok
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[16:03] <ericb2> hdu_hh: is your presentation ready ? Deadline is 1st September ?
[16:03] * jsc is now known as jsc_away
[16:03] <ericb2> The template is available here : http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2007/presentations/ooocon2007_template.otp
[16:03] <hdu_hh> ericb2: tomorrow eveneing...
[16:03] <ericb2> hdu_hh: like me
[16:03] <ericb2> hdu_hh: I'll send you what I'd like to say, and we'll divide the time
[16:03] * jsc_away is now known as jsc [16:04] <hdu_hh> ericb2: thanks
[16:04] <ericb2> hdu_hh: from my side, I'll send a draft, and attend with the presentation in my USB key
[16:04] <hdu_hh> ericb2: it looks like we'll be there with a macbook
[16:05] <ericb2> hdu_hh: great. If ever you have a problem, I'll have my machine too
[16:05] <hdu_hh> great!
[16:06] <ericb2> hdu_hh: it it ok for you to consider you have 30 minutes over 45 ?
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[16:07] <hdu_hh> ericb2: 20min should suffice (just an overview over vcl, sal, aqua and pecularities)
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[16:07] <jsc> hi, can anybody tell me where i can find a current SDK build for Mac OS X
[16:07] <ericb2> hdu_hh: it is up to you, really. I already have time the morning, and share it is better for all :)
[16:07] jsc jsi_sun
[16:07] jsc jsi_sun
[16:08] <jsc> i will need for some tests nd haven't he time to build in on my own
[16:08] <ericb2> jsc: I think Maho always build it, and probably inside the dir containing the last build
[16:08] <jsc> eircb2: thanks
[16:08] <ericb2> jsc: To be sure, read the announce on release mailing list
[16:09] <ericb2> jsc: you're welcome
[16:10] <ericb2> Other questions before to propose a date for the next meeting ?
[16:10] <ericb2> Ok for next meeting scheduled 6th September, same hour ?
[16:11] <PhilippL> +1
[16:11] <rbircher> +1
